What is it with the lack of charisma items?

[JOTMON]

found this one last life, using it this life.

Sad to see how the U29 randomgen loot introduction blew out the scaling of loot levels.
My old +8 at level 25 was a great item until the new randomgens flooded the system screwing every older item over.
but of course there was no retroactive 'fix' to old items.. they only retroactively 'fix' items that are forced downgrades.

Way to screw named items across the board.. Epic named stat items are now.. meh... blown away by random scraps..
Named items get ignored for every loot revamp unless they want to screw them over.. icy rainments.. used to be grind worthy .. now meh.. junk loot is better... go figure...

[Lonnbeimnech]

Sad to see how the U29 randomgen loot introduction blew out the scaling of loot levels.
My old +8 at level 25 was a great item until the new randomgens flooded the system screwing every older item over.
but of course there was no retroactive 'fix' to old items.. they only retroactively 'fix' items that are forced downgrades.

Way to screw named items across the board.. Epic named stat items are now.. meh... blown away by random scraps..
Named items get ignored for every loot revamp unless they want to screw them over.. icy rainments.. used to be grind worthy .. now meh.. junk loot is better... go figure...

Yup. I was quite happy with my EE Ring of the Stormreaver Prophecy after EGH came out. It looks kinda sad sitting in the bank these days with random loot in heroics giving +8s.

[IronClan]

Check the wiki out sometime, it's pretty informative, and fairly accurate. http://ddowiki.com/page/Update_29_ra...tments_by_slot

"IIRC" means if I remember correctly, so it's cloak and rings, not helm, In any case my post was correct in that goggles don't drop with CHA and cloaks do. I am very familiar with the wiki having added to it on occasion.

[IronClan]

Sad to see how the U29 randomgen loot introduction blew out the scaling of loot levels.
My old +8 at level 25 was a great item until the new randomgens flooded the system screwing every older item over.
but of course there was no retroactive 'fix' to old items.. they only retroactively 'fix' items that are forced downgrades.

Way to screw named items across the board.. Epic named stat items are now.. meh... blown away by random scraps..
Named items get ignored for every loot revamp unless they want to screw them over.. icy rainments.. used to be grind worthy .. now meh.. junk loot is better... go figure...

On one hand you complain about named loot being made obsolete; On the other hand the reason it's obsolete is that it's named (static) and the only way to keep people playing for static named items is to make superior static named items that make older ones obsolete.

Largely random gen items don't have this problem. Because a random can drop that's one point off perfect and theoretically you still have something to look forward to. Yet you can't specifically farm for it, so you don't burn yourself out on the same quest over and over. A +13 CHA +4 Insightful, is so rare that you're probably going to be excited to pull it.... You're probably wearing a named item with +12 +4 for a while before you do (statistically speaking of course) Yet you also know that a 14/4 can drop... or a 14/5 or a 15/4 or 15/5 if you get one of these you might also get a 13/6 that also has a 3rd affix that is compelling enough to take a 1 or 2 stat hit for to equip... So you see the random system allows massively better replay value and takes FAR longer to "obsolete" a previous item. It accomplishes what Named items do without forcing playing the exact same quest only, and it also doesn't become obsolete INHERENTLY as other named items get put in that are better.

Pretty clearly it's a superior design in terms of keeping players engaged in "just playing". Though I think they dialed back the lucky affixes too much recently and need to let them drop more often.

I'm glad there are random loot items that theoretically can drop that make it worth replaying content that everyone has already mined all the named items out of. Named items are easy, they always drop in the same chest, there's no mystery or unknowns and there's no real suspense, you know it's going to drop sooner or later.

Not being in a static location means I might find the "perfect" random item in any high level EE or LE quest in the game, which means when my guildies ask me to run something I don't feel like I'm wasting my time in a quest where NOTHING named is useful too me. I might run quests like the last Madness pack (which I never ran not even once because the loot sucked), or replay the new shroud flags a few times despite that loot being pure 100% meh...

I like running EE ToEE for chasers and also enjoying the possibility of good randoms dropping. I can sell a Golden Orb of Death for VERY good AS, and maybe get a drop. Being in a random location and theoretical means I don't obsesses over it, and can not do unfun self destructive behavour like "farming". A "perfect" item for my setup MIGHT drop, but I'd have to be loony to treat it as anything more than something I might some day pull or trade for.

Truth is most of the named items are still sought after because you are guaranteed to eventually get the named item, getting the same or better combo on random loot is rare and in fact might simply never drop for you, or be put on the AH.

It works exactly like this in all the Diablo and Rogue-like games, arguably their loot paradigm is superior to DDO's (IMO it's hands down superior).

No doubt there are a few people who's apple cart has been turned over who now don't feel motivated to get named items because they MIGHT find a random item some day that is superior in every way. But by in large the added replayability of random loot trumps that IMO. So it may be something those people just have to adjust to for the good of the game.

[JOTMON]

On one hand you complain about named loot being made obsolete; On the other hand the reason it's obsolete is that it's named (static) and the only way to keep people playing for static named items is to make superior static named items that make older ones obsolete.

Largely random gen items don't have this problem. Because a random can drop that's one point off perfect and theoretically you still have something to look forward to. Yet you can't specifically farm for it, so you don't burn yourself out on the same quest over and over. A +13 CHA +4 Insightful, is so rare that you're probably going to be excited to pull it.... You're probably wearing a named item with +12 +4 for a while before you do (statistically speaking of course) Yet you also know that a 14/4 can drop... or a 14/5 or a 15/4 or 15/5 if you get one of these you might also get a 13/6 that also has a 3rd affix that is compelling enough to take a 1 or 2 stat hit for to equip... So you see the random system allows massively better replay value and takes FAR longer to "obsolete" a previous item. It accomplishes what Named items do without forcing playing the exact same quest only, and it also doesn't become obsolete INHERENTLY as other named items get put in that are better.

Pretty clearly it's a superior design in terms of keeping players engaged in "just playing". Though I think they dialed back the lucky affixes too much recently and need to let them drop more often.

I'm glad there are random loot items that theoretically can drop that make it worth replaying content that everyone has already mined all the named items out of. Named items are easy, they always drop in the same chest, there's no mystery or unknowns and there's no real suspense, you know it's going to drop sooner or later.

Not being in a static location means I might find the "perfect" random item in any high level EE or LE quest in the game, which means when my guildies ask me to run something I don't feel like I'm wasting my time in a quest where NOTHING named is useful too me. I might run quests like the last Madness pack (which I never ran not even once because the loot sucked), or replay the new shroud flags a few times despite that loot being pure 100% meh...

I like running EE ToEE for chasers and also enjoying the possibility of good randoms dropping. I can sell a Golden Orb of Death for VERY good AS, and maybe get a drop. Being in a random location and theoretical means I don't obsesses over it, and can not do unfun self destructive behavour like "farming". A "perfect" item for my setup MIGHT drop, but I'd have to be loony to treat it as anything more than something I might some day pull or trade for.

Truth is most of the named items are still sought after because you are guaranteed to eventually get the named item, getting the same or better combo on random loot is rare and in fact might simply never drop for you, or be put on the AH.

It works exactly like this in all the Diablo and Rogue-like games, arguably their loot paradigm is superior to DDO's (IMO it's hands down superior).

No doubt there are a few people who's apple cart has been turned over who now don't feel motivated to get named items because they MIGHT find a random item some day that is superior in every way. But by in large the added replayability of random loot trumps that IMO. So it may be something those people just have to adjust to for the good of the game.

Its not one hand or the other, they b-slapped both.
Its not superior design its half done loot revamps and breaking the op curve of sequential looting with level progression.
While random is just that . random.. the problem still remains.
U29 Randomgen items are the problem. +10 stats at level 21 compared to named items +8 at level 25... before getting into the chance of insight or otherrandom combinations.


Its not about what you like to run or what drops in what chest, there is an inequity of balance in loot. Randomgens have had 2 loot revamps and named items have been ignored.
In many cases Randomgen items are twice as good as named items and have lower level requirements.
Cahttering ring, icy rainments, ornamental dagger, doublestrike, doubleshot, deadly, dodge, etc...

Named items are sought because they can be used to fill a design plan, you know what youwant to fit a specific location and can build around it.
Random is just that random, we are using named item placeholders until something better comes along... or we buy it in the AH.

Don't care about other games , If I or anyone else wanted to play Diablo we would. comparing to other games is not relevant.
The loot issues within this game are the issues that should be addressed not the irrelevance of other games loot.


The named items are supposed to represent the cream of the crop items that were good enough to get named.
While I do like randomgen, only the rarest of items should be in the same realm as named items. very few should be better. same goes for crafting as far as I am concerned.
Currently the opposite is true, many randomgen effects are significantly better than named at the same level range.

[IronClan]

The reason people expect named loot to be good is that it's got a name, a lore based expectation that is not particularly important in terms of game mechanics beyond scratching that flavor itch. It's basically that someone named it, so it's got a mythical or legendary reputation and logically follows that it must be good (and for what it's worth they are good).

However the inherent problem is that they make named items the absolute most common items, most have a very high drop rate, you can get riftmaker the best axe in the game in a couple runs of the same not very challenging quest, ten minutes a run maybe you play for a grand total of 60 minutes or an hour and a half before you either pull it or a guildy passes it... I know I have 4 riftmakers spread around.

On the other hand the AH shows that a +15 stat OR a +6 insightful stat random item is pretty rare, and quite expensive. let alone one that has max rolls in both that also happen to be two stats you want. Even rarer still would be two max rolls + a lucky roll affix.

They can't be farmed, they don't exist in a static location ... and they are clearly rare.

The facts of the situation are that the flavor based expectation is less important than the actual mechanical reality of how the system works. they finally corrected this 9 year old mistake in how the game was designed and the game plays better as a result.

Even raids I don't need anything in get some replay because level 30+ random loot can drop in them or the reward list. In fact without the present random loot having some potential for rare "best in slot" drops I wouldn't have a **** thing to do right now... DoJ items are all mined out, Hound has no named loot I don't already have, Tempest spine shares the same loot as Hound so I also have no reason to run it, so that leaves Shroud and running high level quests with a loot gem going as the only thing left to do. Those raids I would never again run are high level and can drop good random loot...

Making the random loot suck again so that named loot is always superior because this appeases your sense of "whats right" (propriety) would literally leave me with 1 content area to run. and make me go back to ignoring 90% of the stuff that drops in chests. No thanks. Flavor and lore are less important than gameplay.

[VinceWhirlwind]

I pulled a +6 Charisma Ring of Resonance 76 (or 96, I can't remember) on my 9 wiz/4 bard/2 fighter and I'm wearing it.

Last weekend I got a +6 CHA item with acid spellcasting power on it (can't remember how much). I thought, "some Sorcerer will love that", put it on the AH and it was snapped up pretty quickly.

[CaptainPurge]

tick
tock

[JOTMON]

The reason people expect named loot to be good is that it's got a name, a lore based expectation that is not particularly important in terms of game mechanics beyond scratching that flavor itch. It's basically that someone named it, so it's got a mythical or legendary reputation and logically follows that it must be good (and for what it's worth they are good).

However the inherent problem is that they make named items the absolute most common items, most have a very high drop rate, you can get riftmaker the best axe in the game in a couple runs of the same not very challenging quest, ten minutes a run maybe you play for a grand total of 60 minutes or an hour and a half before you either pull it or a guildy passes it... I know I have 4 riftmakers spread around.

On the other hand the AH shows that a +15 stat OR a +6 insightful stat random item is pretty rare, and quite expensive. let alone one that has max rolls in both that also happen to be two stats you want. Even rarer still would be two max rolls + a lucky roll affix.

They can't be farmed, they don't exist in a static location ... and they are clearly rare.

The facts of the situation are that the flavor based expectation is less important than the actual mechanical reality of how the system works. they finally corrected this 9 year old mistake in how the game was designed and the game plays better as a result.

Even raids I don't need anything in get some replay because level 30+ random loot can drop in them or the reward list. In fact without the present random loot having some potential for rare "best in slot" drops I wouldn't have a **** thing to do right now... DoJ items are all mined out, Hound has no named loot I don't already have, Tempest spine shares the same loot as Hound so I also have no reason to run it, so that leaves Shroud and running high level quests with a loot gem going as the only thing left to do. Those raids I would never again run are high level and can drop good random loot...

Making the random loot suck again so that named loot is always superior because this appeases your sense of "whats right" (propriety) would literally leave me with 1 content area to run. and make me go back to ignoring 90% of the stuff that drops in chests. No thanks. Flavor and lore are less important than gameplay.

Those expensive AH are only expensive now, as time goes on they will become like vorpals, they drop everywhere and anywhere, just a random chance, there is a chance on every end reward list and.. none of the randomgen stuff is bound in any way.

Players are currently hoarding and holding many of these items or putting on the AH for exorbitant amounts because there are people with little patience and lots of resources.
Players do not need to farm 1 specific challenge for a specific item, they can run chains, saga's or any other assortment of quests for a random chance of getting something pretty.
Over time the market will be flooded with this stuff.

Its not rare, its random.. throw in a lucky roll on any chest get loot for that chest level..
Doesn't need teamwork or practice, or strategy...farm any chest, doesn't need to be a end chest or high challenge chest, thye are even on the end reward lists.
Farm saga's and get XP while you are at it.. don't need to be in your best destiny or group for random chest farming.

DDO is supposed to encourage teamwork, the best encouragement is loot.
There is no progression of challenge for reward here.

I should not be seeing a +10 stat ring with +32 false life and a augment slot at level 21 as a basic drop item (not mastercraft or wonderous), just a regular drop on a end reward list..
especially considering Gianthold gear was capped at +8 for level 25.

I am not saying make randomgen loot suck. I am saying it should be in line with the named items and the player level in regards to value.
The majority of randomgen should not be as good as raid items at the same level, those rare few stars aligned randomgens will be in the same range, not excessively better.

[Broprichniki]

As you can see, I'm also using the Level 30 Anniversary gloves, though it's a complete waste. I think I'll farm some EE Backstabbing Gloves instead.

[silinteresting]

been keeping a eye on this thread while at the same time running my main character.
what ive found is as follows. started off after a tr at lvl 1 in korthos and now im lvl 12
and ive not seen a single charasima item of any description drop in a chest or drop as
a end reward. between running solo and grouping 50/50 and having the tick for class
items to drop(warlock). ive seen every other stat item drop but not charisma. i find
this rather odd i got to admit. im wondering if i can go to 30 without seeing one.

your friend sil

[Cableman]

been keeping a eye on this thread while at the same time running my main character.
what ive found is as follows. started off after a tr at lvl 1 in korthos and now im lvl 12
and ive not seen a single charasima item of any description drop in a chest or drop as
a end reward. between running solo and grouping 50/50 and having the tick for class
items to drop(warlock). ive seen every other stat item drop but not charisma. i find
this rather odd i got to admit. im wondering if i can go to 30 without seeing one.

your friend sil

Well Sil, you are unluckiest player in DDO.