Shifters: where are they?

[Zezahk]

Shifters are by far my most favoratest race in Eberron. The intelligence hit aside, of course. I understand that they're geographically isolated from Stormreach, but i'm still sorta sad that they're NEVER shown, referenced or playable. Despite the fact that they're supposed to make up 2% of Stormreach's population.

Anyone else wishing to see them added? Even if they must be condemned to antagonists of a future quest pack. Or some similar fate.

[Uska]

I have been asking for them for 10 years

[-Avalon-]

Add the Kalashtar to the list of missing races...

[Larlocher]

Dragonborn too!

[Uska]

Add the Kalashtar to the list of missing races...

Yes if they bring in psionics

[Uska]

Dragonborn too!

Not NO But hell NO

[boogeiyman]

gimme teiflings and evil aligned chars!

[Uska]

gimme teiflings and evil aligned chars!

They may do teiflings but never evil and they have stated they wont, it's a horrible idea sorry

[Arianrhod]

I've always felt shifters would be a particularly good fit for DDO - their racial abilities fit the enhancement system very well. Hope they do get added sometime soon - and definitely before dragonborn - the dragons of Argonessen would start a war over such abominations

[Khatzhas]

I've always felt shifters would be a particularly good fit for DDO - their racial abilities fit the enhancement system very well. Hope they do get added sometime soon - and definitely before dragonborn - the dragons of Argonessen would start a war over such abominations

Yep. Previously, the only thing Shifters would have been able to offer is a rage-analog, but with the racial enhancements, a lot more variation is possible. Not entirely sure what their specific gameplay niche would be though.

Why would Argonessen have an issue with Dragonborn? Most Dragonborn serve Argonessen Dragons.

[Memnir]

Shifters: where are they?

Hiding in plain sight. You don't know who they are, or where they've hanging out.... and that's just how they like it.

[Uska]

Yep. Previously, the only thing Shifters would have been able to offer is a rage-analog, but with the racial enhancements, a lot more variation is possible. Not entirely sure what their specific gameplay niche would be though.

Why would Argonessen have an issue with Dragonborn? Most Dragonborn serve Argonessen Dragons.

That's a recon by original plan of Eberron they don't exist and it should stay that way worst race ever made for any rpg ever dragonboring that is

[Khatzhas]

That's a recon by original plan of Eberron they don't exist and it should stay that way worst race ever made for any rpg ever dragonboring that is

Hmmm. Do you mean "retcon"?

Of course they weren't in Original Eberron. There was no such race when Eberron first came out. A number of things were changed to fit the basics and mechanics of 4e, such as the Eladrin towers and Dragonborn. Keith Baker doesn't seem to have issues with them (unlike the planar change.)

Dragonborn aren't half-dragons. They don't have dragon daddies. The relationship is far closer to Rhashaak and his blackscale lizardfolk... they are dragon-y, nothing more. The reason most of the dragons of Argonnessen dislike half-dragons is because they think they are disgusting - it's the way I'd expect most humans to feel if someone had sex with a dog and produced a creepy, stunted puppy with fingers on its front paws and a human nose and chin. It's an ugly, crippled little thing produced by perverse behavior, living proof that one of our own demeaned himself and his blood by breeding with one of these little rodents. Dragonborn, on the other hand, are more like a breed of dogs that are amusing because they act like humans - aww, look at his mouth, doesn't he look like he's smiling? And he can shake hands! But there's no creepy "When I look at you I am reminded that my uncle had sex with a maggot in order to produce you" that you get with half-dragons. (And not all dragons ARE against half-dragons - which is how you got Erandis d'Vol in the first place. Hey, some people LIKE having sex with dogs.)

[dunklezhan]

Hmmm. Do you mean "retcon"?

Of course they weren't in Original Eberron. There was no such race when Eberron first came out. A number of things were changed to fit the basics and mechanics of 4e, such as the Eladrin towers and Dragonborn. Keith Baker doesn't seem to have issues with them (unlike the planar change.)

I think the objection is - and if so I share it - not so much the addition of a race mostly designed to make certain players finally shut up about being able to play 'dragon kin', but how they were handled. I can live with 'ok, we've finally given in and pandered to you, enough of you want this that clearly it just makes commercial sense to allow it'. Fine.

But you shouldn't go back and change gameworld history just to fit your shiny new race in. There are so many ways a new race can arrive - especially in a fantasy game - that changing history is the worst form of lazy writing.

Oh, but back on the OP's topic: Yeah, I'd like to see shifters more than any other race, including gnome which I don't, and never have, seen the attraction of. I don't think they're stupid or anything... I just don't see the attraction of playing one. I've also always felt that they should just be a variety of halfling (or halflings should be a variety of gnome. Either way - I just don't get what makes them different enough from each other).

[Khatzhas]

I think the objection is - and if so I share it - not so much the addition of a race mostly designed to make certain players finally shut up about being able to play 'dragon kin', but how they were handled. I can live with 'ok, we've finally given in and pandered to you, enough of you want this that clearly it just makes commercial sense to allow it'. Fine.

But you shouldn't go back and change gameworld history just to fit your shiny new race in. There are so many ways a new race can arrive - especially in a fantasy game - that changing history is the worst form of lazy writing.

They didn't change Eberron's history just to fit Dragonborn in. Dragonborn (and Eladrin, and the planes) were part of 4th Edition Eberron setting. There wasn't even any retconning compared to the 3rd ed Eberron history needed regarding the Dragonborn: the only place in Khorvaire that they live is Q'Barra, where they were just assumed to be another reptilian native race.

That's no more changing history than the introduction of a new prestige class in an Eberron supplement.

Compare that to what they did to Forgotten Realms to explain 4th ed.

Oh, but back on the OP's topic: Yeah, I'd like to see shifters more than any other race, including gnome which I don't, and never have, seen the attraction of. I don't think they're stupid or anything... I just don't see the attraction of playing one. I've also always felt that they should just be a variety of halfling (or halflings should be a variety of gnome. Either way - I just don't get what makes them different enough from each other).

In PnP I can definitely see the attraction of Zilargo Gnomes. They have a very interesting (and somewhat disturbing) culture and attitude. However very few people actually roleplay in DDO, and you can RP a Gnome with a halfling character easily enough.

Mechanically however, they are like Kalashtar and Shifters: they don't really add much to the game in terms of unique and defined mechanics as just their 3.5 implementation.

[Uska]

They didn't change Eberron's history just to fit Dragonborn in. Dragonborn (and Eladrin, and the planes) were part of 4th Edition Eberron setting. There wasn't even any retconning compared to the 3rd ed Eberron history needed regarding the Dragonborn: the only place in Khorvaire that they live is Q'Barra, where they were just assumed to be another reptilian native race.

That's no more changing history than the introduction of a new prestige class in an Eberron supplement.

Compare that to what they did to Forgotten Realms to explain 4th ed.

In PnP I can definitely see the attraction of Zilargo Gnomes. They have a very interesting (and somewhat disturbing) culture and attitude. However very few people actually roleplay in DDO, and you can RP a Gnome with a halfling character easily enough.

Mechanically however, they are like Kalashtar and Shifters: they don't really add much to the game in terms of unique and defined mechanics as just their 3.5 implementation.

We aren't 4th no to munchkin dragonboring

[FuzzyDuck81]

Depending on how racial enhancements are handled, they could be really interesting. Ideas:

The main thing would be a bestial form - treat it as a stance, or a time-limited transformation like barbarian rage (so limited charges but manually dispellable if desired) that stacks with a number of others (particularly druid animal forms, effectively letting shifter druids have animal transformation on overdrive) & have it give a bunch of bonuses like to-hit, damage, str & con, some passive HP regeneration, prr & mrr plus a few negative effects for balance similar to how Tensers is handled with extra combat capability but less/no ability to spellcast (apart from the healing ability mentioned below), maybe also a penalty to ki generation for shifter monks.

Then there would also need to be others - so, passive bonuses while unarmed/shapeshifted for the whole "partial transformation" angle, some self-healing; either a heal over time SLA like one of the vigor spells, or maybe a limited-charge action boost type version with a bit more power but non-metamagicable (maybe vigor/greater vigor/regeneration as you invest AP), and a couple of other things like ac, prr & mrr for the "i've adapted my skin to be tougher" part.

To really do this kind of idea justice though, the work on fixing unarmed fighting would need to happen first, i think.

[TimtheGreat89]

Shifters are by far my most favoratest race in Eberron. The intelligence hit aside, of course. I understand that they're geographically isolated from Stormreach, but i'm still sorta sad that they're NEVER shown, referenced or playable. Despite the fact that they're supposed to make up 2% of Stormreach's population.

Anyone else wishing to see them added? Even if they must be condemned to antagonists of a future quest pack. Or some similar fate.

That will be so awesome to play as a shifter yeah, so it will very interesting to see how that turns out. As both a playable race, and a featured Adventure Pack for both Heroic and Epic Versions.