Needed - Elf Ranger Help Please!

[Marshal_Lannes]

H. And that is after assuring us early on that your ranger thread contains everything anyone would need to build a ranger.

.

Yes, I have provided the definitive new player Elven Ranger build thread. I am sorry if you don't like it. Maybe you should contribute things instead of tearing down what others have achieved? I have read nothing from you on these forums except negativity. I stand by my Analysis of an Elven Ranger and it is the perfect way a new player can complete 99.9% of the game.

[blerkington]

Yes, I have provided the definitive new player Elven Ranger build thread. I am sorry if you don't like it. Maybe you should contribute things instead of tearing down what others have achieved? I have read nothing from you on these forums except negativity. I stand by my Analysis of an Elven Ranger and it is the perfect way a new player can complete 99.9% of the game.

Hi,

Try to move beyond the personal with this. Put aside the hurt feelings and see if you can do something productive with the criticisms made of your work.

Your problems in this thread all stem from over-reaching yourself. Making claims which are too large to support, then reacting badly when people disagree. No-one is impressed with self-proclaimed experts, especially when they can't back their claims up. Let your work speak for you, don't boast about how great you are, because all that does is paint a target on your back.

When you entered the thread, you didn't even bother to ask the OP what sort of ranger he wanted to build. In fact, you didn't ask him any questions at all. Instead, you told him that you'd written a thread which contains everything everyone needs to know about building a ranger. To me, that seemed like an incredibly poor start, because it showed no real interest in what the OP wanted and just seemed like you wanted to advertise your work and push your opinions onto other people.

As we've seen, it turned out that the OP wanted to use a melee build, about which your thread says almost nothing at all. Even so, you persist in claiming you've written a complete and definitive thread about rangers, when in fact you've done nothing of the sort. It's like you've learnt nothing at all from that initial mistake.

Your ranger thread could be more useful if it contained more detailed information about playstyle, gearing and build. If you added those things, it would make your guide a better resource. That in turn might lead to people thinking and saying it is a useful resource, rather than you having to drop into these build threads to promote yourself and then be offended when others disagree with your own estimation of the value of your work.

Like I said before, in its current form it's more of a diary than an analysis. At the moment, it also only talks about ranged play. That's fine in itself, but it can hardly be considered a complete ranger build document when it doesn't cover two out of three of the main approaches to running a ranger. But you can fix that. Just make it better than it is, or start describing it in way where the label matches what is in the tin.

Despite your fantasies about a cabal of evil veterans setting out to make you fail, nothing of the sort is happening. You could be a very well-liked and productive member of the community if you provide good resources and dialed back the boasting. There's still time to make that change, and I wish you luck with it.

Thanks.

[ThomasHunter]

I appreciate all of the input. I liked reading the different thoughts and opinions as well. One thing that I was also considering was capping DWS instead of Tempest which someone else has tried. I may experiment a bit.

One thing I noticed on unbongwah's build is that it was True Neutral. What are the reasons? Hoping Unbongwah is still checking this thread!

I just reached 20 and will be TRing soon!

Thanks again all!

[Attropos]

I appreciate all of the input. I liked reading the different thoughts and opinions as well. One thing that I was also considering was capping DWS instead of Tempest which someone else has tried. I may experiment a bit.

One thing I noticed on unbongwah's build is that it was True Neutral. What are the reasons? Hoping Unbongwah is still checking this thread!

I just reached 20 and will be TRing soon!

Thanks again all!

The reasoning is to not take alignment based damage if avoidable. The other reason to not be good is that if you equip epic litany of the dead and are good, you gain a perma neg level. Very small differences though. You may find it easier to be good, since you can use the alignment based dr breaking things in epic destinies.

[Assassination]

One thing that I was also considering was capping DWS instead of Tempest which someone else has tried. I may experiment a bit.

I've been running with DWS cap and tier 5's. I think it works really well, especially if you like to mix in some ranged action. I'm running 42 pts in DWS, 31 in Tempest, 7 in AA. Some will say it's suboptimal, and for pure dps numbers it is, but I enjoy the varied play. Running in dreadnaught and blitzing is a pretty fun. Good luck.

[KodeWraith]

One thing that I was also considering was capping DWS instead of Tempest which someone else has tried. I may experiment a bit..

The way I look at it:
1) Tempest Cap +T5 is 100% melee
2) pure AA/DWS is 100% ranged
3) DWScap+t5 + TempestT4 is about 75% melee and 75% ranged.

Just my experience... afaict it depends a lot on your play style.
a) I never pull out my bow.
b) I pull out my bow only when multishot is up.
c) I never pull out my swords

For pure melee only, Tempest T5 and cores are terrifyingly awesome. You can do ridiculous damage to multiple things at once and get ridiculous armor piercing abilities. If you look at the Zergod 20 thread, that's his playstyle, all melee all the time. Full stat damage to your offhand and is almost always better than 10 melee power (tempest cap gives 10 mp so it's a delta of 10mp after you factor in the DS from tempest). Also keep in mind that 25% offhand double strike IS just double strike since you're getting the same damage from both swords with Dual Perfection.

For pure ranged, the two allocations that seems to work best are DWS (cap + T5)@41ap + AA(T4) @31ap + 8 your choice OR T5 DWS39 + 41 AA cap which leaves basically nothing for anythign else.

Either way, you always want at least up to core 4 in DWS for the + crit range. The problem is that you'll either get + crit mult on melee OR ranged but not both.

Now having said that, DWS T5 is pretty nice if you want to pull out your bow half the time. It gives you a huge boost in ranged damage over nothing, but still not nearly as big as a pure ranged toon. What you lose is melee damage.

Side Note: I found Tempest T5 did way more damage than DWS T5 on my pally/ranger (14/6) from last life. In this case the +crit was from HS, so that part washed out.

[Jiirix]

I appreciate all of the input. I liked reading the different thoughts and opinions as well. One thing that I was also considering was capping DWS instead of Tempest which someone else has tried. I may experiment a bit.

One thing I noticed on unbongwah's build is that it was True Neutral. What are the reasons? Hoping Unbongwah is still checking this thread!

I just reached 20 and will be TRing soon!

Thanks again all!

As far as I know Unbo takes True Neutral on every build that has no alignment restriction.
Benefits of True Neutral: Less damage from some mobs. Some chaotic and evil attacks do more damage to lawful good heroes. Like the six Khopeshes of epic Queen Lailat. Those have Unholy Burst and Anarchic Burst on them and both effects do no damage to True neutral heroes. An other benefit of a non good alignment is that you can wear items with Taint of Evil (epic Litany) without getting a negative level. That true neutral heroes can wear stabiltity items isn't important anymore.

The only benefit from non-neutral alingments is that you can get extra damage flags from Blessed Blades (Divine Crusader) or Purify Weapon (Unyielding Sentinel, good only) and that you an equip pure good weapons without UMD 20 (very easy to get that in epic levels)

[Mindos]

The only benefit from non-neutral alingments is that you can get extra damage flags from Blessed Blades (Divine Crusader) or Purify Weapon (Unyielding Sentinel, good only) and that you an equip pure good weapons without UMD 20 (very easy to get that in epic levels)

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Ring_of_the_Ancestors

The only case I know of that has umd 0

[ThomasHunter]

Was thinking about short swords again based on the fact that I have a bunch and have access to Celestia x2 for epic leveling. Is that worthwhile or just a garbage idea?

An aside - will Celestia break DR on all of the many monsters we fight at cap? Like devils and abishai?

[blerkington]

Was thinking about short swords again based on the fact that I have a bunch and have access to Celestia x2 for epic leveling. Is that worthwhile or just a garbage idea?

An aside - will Celestia break DR on all of the many monsters we fight at cap? Like devils and abishai?

Hi,

Shortswords generally aren't great weapons because of their poor crit profile and multiplier. They can get better when they are boosted by certain enhancements, but the weapon best supported by the tempest tree is the scimitar if you plan to make a DEX build.

There are also weapon bonuses for scimitar in the elf tree, though they are kind of expensive and unfortunately also paired with bonuses for the shortbow rather than the longbow. If you were going to take these, rapier/longbow might be the better choice, though going that way means losing out on using DEX to hit with your melee weapons from your tempest core enhancements.

Celestia is convenient for breaking DR, but in most cases you will have other options that bypass DR and also do more damage. There are a bunch of abilities which can ruin Celestia's DR breaking, and building around that weapon means some of those abilities will be off limits to you.

Thanks.

[ThomasHunter]

For the token turn in, I can grab 10 commendations to help upgrade my Pinion from the Raiders Box or the Unwavering Ardency which seems really quite good with 2[1d12] base damage and a x3 crit on 18-20. Given that that doubles, the crit seems also nice.

Is that better to take given that I have NEVER run that raid? Note that my guild will run FoT sometimes, so comms are a possibility.

Thanks again for the help (just got to 20!).

[blerkington]

For the token turn in, I can grab 10 commendations to help upgrade my Pinion from the Raiders Box or the Unwavering Ardency which seems really quite good with 2[1d12] base damage and a x3 crit on 18-20. Given that that doubles, the crit seems also nice.

Is that better to take given that I have NEVER run that raid? Note that my guild will run FoT sometimes, so comms are a possibility.

Thanks again for the help (just got to 20!).

Hi,

Unwavering Ardency is a nice weapon, but it's most valuable for levelling a bow build from 14 to 23 after which you'd probably switch to your Pinion. So if you were planning on doing more bow based lives, it could be a good choice. But if you're going to stay at cap you might find it just gathering dust in the bank while you use better weapons.

It won't take long to get CoHs from running FoT a few times. If you say you need them at looting time, you might even find people will pass you their extras. I see people put them up for roll all the time in PUGs, and I imagine it might be even easier to get some more in a guild group.

There might be a third option worth considering from your token. That being said, neither of the two things you've suggested is anywhere near as bad as taking a Hellfire Crossbow, and I don't think taking UA or the CoHs would be a bad mistake.

Thanks.

[unbongwah]

For the token turn in, I can grab 10 commendations to help upgrade my Pinion from the Raiders Box or the Unwavering Ardency which seems really quite good with 2[1d12] base damage and a x3 crit on 18-20. Given that that doubles, the crit seems also nice.

If you're talking about the crit range: sorry, IC:Ranged no longer doubles it, it only adds +1, which is why Turbine tweaked the base crit range from 19-20/x3 to 18-20/x3. So on a pure rgr, by lvl 18 w/IC:Ranged+Shadow Arrows+Adv Sneak Atk, UA has 16-20/x4 crit spec. Which is as good as it gets for heroic longbows.

As for whether you should take UA, that depends on your long-term plans. Do you have a bunch of HTRs or ITRs you want to do as a purely ranged toon? If so, UA is your best option for lvls 14-22 and you should take one (IMO). OTOH, if you plan to focus solely on epics (either endgame or EPL farming), an upgraded Pinion is more valuable as you farm for an endgame bow (whatever that ends up being).

[EllisDee37]

Unwavering Ardency is great if you already have it, but it's not worth spending your token on. Grab a Bow of Sinew (better crit profile but lower base damage) for the teens and save your token for something else.

A level 18 ranger with both crit enhancements:

Unwavering Ardency: 16-20x4, ML14, +3 2[1d12] = 16 base damage
Bow of Sinew: 16-20x4, 19-20x5, ML14, +5 1[1d8] = 9.5 base damage

Bow of Sinew is pretty easy to farm, and is BTA. It might even be guaranteed in a 3rd list; not sure.

[unbongwah]

Unwavering Ardency: 16-20x4, ML14, +3 2[1d12] = 16 base damage
Bow of Sinew: 16-20x4, 19-20x5, ML14, +5 1[1d8] = 9.5 base damage

Don't forget that most of the time you'll be in PBS range, so it's more like 3[1d12] + 3 (22.5 base dmg) vs 2[1d8] + 5 (14 base dmg), or a 60% increase in base dmg. Ofc, that ignores Deadly bonuses etc., so the actual difference in DPS is smaller; but effectively it's the equivalent of having +17 DEX or STR (whichever is your dmg stat). BoS is +2 effective hits, but that's only +6% DPS. I think you can find +8 Seeker on heroic random lootgen these days, but I'm not sure about that. EDIT: Flaming Burst is +2.75 dmg per hit - not much, but every little bit helps.

Again, whether it's worth claiming depends on how much time OP plans to spend in the lvl 14-22 range.

[EllisDee37]

Don't forget that most of the time you'll be in PBS range, so it's more like 3[1d12] + 3 (22.5 base dmg) vs 2[1d8] + 5 (14 base dmg), or a 60% increase in base dmg. Ofc, that ignores Deadly bonuses etc., so the actual difference in DPS is smaller; but effectively it's the equivalent of having +17 DEX or STR (whichever is your dmg stat). BoS is +2 effective hits, but that's only +6% DPS. I think you can find +8 Seeker on heroic random lootgen these days, but I'm not sure about that. EDIT: Flaming Burst is +2.75 dmg per hit - not much, but every little bit helps.

Don't forget +0.25[W] from ship buffs, plus possibly +4 seeker from ship buffs.

Unwavering Ardency's advantage isn't trivial, but it is static. Bow of Sinew's advantage scales. The more damage you do, the better off you are with Bow of Sinew. However, Unwavering Ardency's static advantage is big enough that you need to do a lot of damage before Bow of Sinew can catch up.

If you were given both for free, it would be an interesting choice. But if you're given Bow of Sinew for free (which it essentially is), then after that you're given the option to sacrifice something very valuable (like pinion, or quiver of alacrity) to also get Unwavering Ardency? Best to just stick with Bow of Sinew.

[unbongwah]

If you were given both for free, it would be an interesting choice. But if you're given Bow of Sinew for free (which it essentially is), then after that you're given the option to sacrifice something very valuable (like pinion, or quiver of alacrity) to also get Unwavering Ardency? Best to just stick with Bow of Sinew.

Sure, if OP had asked, "Should I take UA or Pinion," I would've said Pinion (unless this is a heroic-only char). But OP's question was "I can grab 10 commendations to help upgrade my Pinion from the Raiders Box or the Unwavering Ardency;" I'm inferring he already has a Pinion, so a second one is unnecessary. Then he said, "Is that better to take given that I have NEVER run that raid? Note that my guild will run FoT sometimes, so comms are a possibility." Again, I'm inferring he means he never runs Abbot and would therefore never get to pull an UA on this toon; but he can sometimes run FoT and thus pull CoHs the old-fashioned way. [EDIT: it takes 25 CoHs to fully upgrade Pinion, so 10 free gets him 40% of the way.] So, of the two options the OP asked about, I gave my reasons for why UA is worth considering. Obviously, my response gets a lot more complicated if OP had just asked a blanket "which freebie should I claim?" question...

[EllisDee37]

I also mentioned quiver of alacrity, from the same never-run raid as unwavering ardency. It's particularly useful for an archer.

[ThomasHunter]

I also mentioned quiver of alacrity, from the same never-run raid as unwavering ardency. It's particularly useful for an archer.

Doesn't a Speed item start making up for this pretty quickly? Have a Speed 8 item, so I think that is only 2% less than the quiver.

Now for the TWIST on this thread. Played around this morning a bit. Reset enhancements to try a more ranged-focused toon. Wow, that seems fun. However, I wasn't aware you could NOT get electrified arrows and paralyzing arrows at the same time. So, I might go back to only 8 points in AA and 13 (or so) in Tempest. I think I like the melee option from time to time. But, after only a few quests, ranged is sure fun. I mean, I have an arti, but I've always wanted a bow user. I think this could be the toon.

Again, thanks for all the help for sure. This has been a great thread to learn from. Need to loot and gear up now. I'm thinking Pinion with Planar Focus will get me through the mid-twenties easily enough.

Overall, DWS has some really fun toys in it! Decent cooldowns keep it pretty fun. Look forward to making it over to Shiradi (in Grandmaster right now). What ED is popular for ranged? I know a bit about the big stuff in Fury (never experienced 18k arrows!!!!), so might go there to see what the hubbub is all about!

[EllisDee37]

I think Legendary Dreadnaught is popular for Master's Blitz, with the idea being manyshot it up to full stacks right out of the gate. Not sure if that still works, to be honest. Do doubleshots have their own chance to proc stacks?

Divine Crusader offers lots of doubleshot and ranged power from Zeal, so if keeping blitz stacks up is an issue, DC is a solid option. Shiradi might be interesting to start with, though, since I think archers tend to twist a lot from Shiradi anyway.