Gnome racial weapons V.S. Racial Tree

[Zebedar]

Gnome proficiencies are listed as light hammer, throwing hammers, and warhammers.

But the racial tree 'Gnomish weapon training' applies to light hammers, light maces, light picks, shortswords, shortbows, light Xbows, light repeating Xbows.

Surely Warhammers and throwing hammers should be on that list and shortbows, shortswords, Xbows, light repeaters, and maces should be removed from it. Consistency is needed with the introduction a new race, and taking a scattershot approach like this isn't going to help.

If light hammers, throwing hammers, and warhammers, are going to be the racial weapons that's what should be on Gnomish weapon training not a collection of other weapons that are not.

As for ranged weapons there is no reason the that Gnomes couldn't be given "throwing Hammer expertise", as Drow are given Shuriken expertise. It would be in-line with the flavor of the build without amplifying other classes unduly, and it would give a option to beef up thrower classes other than Shuriken chuckers which Severlin Has stated was a goal.

[FranOhmsford]

Gnome proficiencies are listed as light hammer, throwing hammers, and warhammers.

But the racial tree 'Gnomish weapon training' applies to light hammers, light maces, light picks, shortswords, shortbows, light Xbows, light repeating Xbows.

Surely Warhammers and throwing hammers should be on that list and shortbows, shortswords, Xbows, light repeaters, and maces should be removed from it. Consistency is needed with the introduction a new race, and taking a scattershot approach like this isn't going to help.

If light hammers, throwing hammers, and warhammers, are going to be the racial weapons that's what should be on Gnomish weapon training not a collection of other weapons that are not.

As for ranged weapons there is no reason the that Gnomes couldn't be given "throwing Hammer expertise", as Drow are given Shuriken expertise. It would be in-line with the flavor of the build without amplifying other classes unduly, and it would give a option to beef up thrower classes other than Shuriken chuckers which Severlin Has stated was a goal.

I think how the Devs have planned this is that Wizards and Clerics {Souls and Sorcs too} don't get Light Hammer, Throwing Hammer or Warhammer Prof so the Devs gave those to all Gnomes as a Racial Prof.

I would like to see Light Pick added to the Gnomish Proficiencies btw over Warhammer {Warhammers should be given to Dwarves!}.

[FranOhmsford]

Devs: Please Swap in Light Pick for Warhammer in the Gnomish Proficiencies.
Please also add Warhammer Prof to ALL Dwarves!

[Zebedar]

Fran could you please refrain from derailing threads with you own personal agendas? This is supposed to be feedback for Lamma not dwarves. Surely you can take you comments of that type and post them on the general threads, or the dwarf threads.

[Holymunchkin]

this is what happens when you have 11k posts and 1 toon at 30

[cdbd3rd]

*Sees two forum posts in support of the thread topic, with a side mention of Dorfs.*

*Sees said support ignored because of Dorf mention and post count*

*Sigh*


Good luck with the crusade. I'll show myself back to the New Posts button before I derail anything here.

[RobbinB]

Spare me, I really enjoy how you tried to turn my posts and questions into a 'crusade' so you could talk down to it. How about those two posts in support? read them again, they were classic Fran derails totally undercutting the issue at hand by presuming Dev intent and quickly turning to his hobby horse.

Can we get back to the subject now? please? pretty pretty please? The Dev have given the Gnomes light hammers, throwing hammers and Warhammers as the racial weapons proficienies, so surely those should be the weapons buffed with the Gnomish weapons training. Or would you rather just keep on insulting me and helping derailing a thread with genuine input and feeedback to the Developers regarding the ACTUAL LAMMA CONTENT other than other hobby horses of Forum 'personalities'.

You have a good point about syncing racial proficiencies with weapons training, but when reconsidering this it is also valid to reconsider which proficiencies make sense and also to reconsider that across all existing races. Asking for the devs to consider all these things at the same time isn't derailing the thread as far as I'm concerned.

[IronClan]

Light pick seems to be missing from the list. Maybe a little tweaking (as swashbuckler) to allow them (give less of a range boost due to their X4 multiplier) is the thing to do?

Gnome proficiencies are listed as light hammer, throwing hammers, and warhammers.

But the racial tree 'Gnomish weapon training' applies to light hammers, light maces, light picks, shortswords, shortbows, light Xbows, light repeating Xbows.

Surely Warhammers and throwing hammers should be on that list and shortbows, shortswords, Xbows, light repeaters, and maces should be removed from it. Consistency is needed with the introduction a new race, and taking a scattershot approach like this isn't going to help.

If light hammers, throwing hammers, and warhammers, are going to be the racial weapons that's what should be on Gnomish weapon training not a collection of other weapons that are not.

As for ranged weapons there is no reason the that Gnomes couldn't be given "throwing Hammer expertise", as Drow are given Shuriken expertise. It would be in-line with the flavor of the build without amplifying other classes unduly, and it would give a option to beef up thrower classes other than Shuriken chuckers which Severlin Has stated was a goal.

I agree with most of your suggestions especially throwing hammers, they suck so bad that "throwing hammer expertise" may be the only way to make them even semi viable. That said Warhammer is so much better than any of the others that if you include it you may as well just delete the others. The idea behind those buffs to light weapons is to make some currently gimpy choices potentially competitive, and thus make building a character that looks the part (archetype). They don't get that if they buff Warhammer's range the same as a Light hammer or light mace.

The same reason they didn't give Swashbucklers scimmy's

I understand why they did it and their reasoning doesn't bother me at all. Though they could simply give less buffs to the more optimal Warhammer just as I suggest for light pick, the problem then becomes: Warhammers have MUCH better Named selection than the others, including expanded crit profile hammers that are already good on currently top meta DPS builds. Thus giving Gnomes Warhammer buffs to crit range just increases the top end of the meta and makes it pointless to select any of the other weapons.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Great idea about throwing hammers. Warhammers should be the virtual equivalent of kopesh for humans. Iron swashbuckers got so many perks that scimies just would of been overkill to the Nth power

I disagree with Fran about light picks.

[geoffhanna]

Technically, a warhammer should be a two-handed weapon for a Gnome.

Which would be cool, by the way.

I am pleased that the missile weapons are included. I tested on Lamannia and they stack with the incremental pluses one can get with the Mechanic tree.

It makes Gnome Mechanic Light Repeater Build a viable alternative

[FranOhmsford]

Technically, a warhammer should be a two-handed weapon for a Gnome.

Exactly!

I don't know why the Devs didn't just go the whole hog and give them Mauls!

It doesn't even make Lore Sense to give Gnomes Warhammer as a Free Prof {Gnome Fighters, Paladins and Barbs would all get it anyway!}, A Light Hammer IS a Warhammer to a Gnome!

Swap in Light Pick {Svirfneblin are Gem Miners} for Warhammer.

[Zebedar]

You have a good point about syncing racial proficiencies with weapons training, but when reconsidering this it is also valid to reconsider which proficiencies make sense and also to reconsider that across all existing races. Asking for the devs to consider all these things at the same time isn't derailing the thread as far as I'm concerned.

It's derailing or attempted derailing because I couldn't care less what weapons they make the Gnome's proficient racial weapons, not a bit less.

What I do care about it that whatever the racial weapons are they should be the weapons that are buffed by 'Gnomish weapon training', not a grab back of other weapons that are not in the racial set. Common sense and consistency what a concept, that's what I'm advocating. What keeps attempting to derail is the incessant: "oh! oh! oh! I would love my super special weapon of choice to apply to my super favorite..... blah blah blah" it's missing the bloody point.

I don't care what weapon they make the Gnomes racial weapon, the could give them kamas and lumps of coal for all I care, just as long as that racial weapon is what is buffed by 'Gnomish weapon training'.

[Ayseifn]

I must admit it's really weird to get +4 to-hit/damage and +1 crit range on weapons you aren't proficient with.

[Natashaelle]

Gnome clerics need some sort of racial deity in addition to the Sovereign Host and the Silver Flame whose favoured weapon would be synergistic with the ones in the racial tree.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Great idea about throwing hammers. Warhammers should be the virtual equivalent of kopesh for humans. Iron swashbuckers got so many perks that scimies just would of been overkill to the Nth power

I disagree with Fran about light picks.

If warhammers are the equivalent of the khopesh to a human, does that mean they have to spend a feat on it and get no racial bonuses to it, like humans have to spend a feat on khopesh and have no racial bonuses to it???

[Zebedar]

Setting aside all the derails and digression, lets return to the point of this thread. The Gnome racial weapons need to be the weapons buffed by 'Gnomish weapon training', what weapons the Devs give to Gnomes doesn't matter as long as those are the weapons buffed by the tree.

I have heard some guess that the devs are giving warhammer, light hammers, throwing hammers in a effort to help casters...... fine, I don't care what weapon they give them as long as it is buffed by the tree. Giving different weapons than the racial weapons the 'Gnomish weapon training' buff undercuts both the racial weapons and in a smaller way the tree weapons. None of that is a assistance to casters.

Now please...... please, please, please people read this: go talk about what weapons Gnomes should get SOMEWHERE ELSE, not here. If you feels so strongly start a thread about it and tell us all about what the lore says they should have X, Y, Z weapons on that thread, just not here. Because here the issue is that the racial weapon (whatever they may be) need to be the weapons buffed by 'Gnomish Weapon training', and if you keep burying it in waffle about what weapon you "just luuuuv!!!", etc... that is not going to be brought to the dev's attention and it is NOT GOING TO BE FIXED.

This is not the general forums people, this is the feedback forums prior to going live. Here we are privileged to get the chance to impact our game for the future by spotting problems bugs and inconsistencies and bringing them to the Developer's notice before they can bedevil the game in the future. So focus alright? if you feel the need to banter or riff on something go do it on the general threads, that's what they are for. Don't muddy the waters here and risk screwing with one of the few chances we have to genuinely engage and inform the Develpers.


TLDR: 'Gnomish weapon training' must buff specifically the 'Gnomish' weapons given as racial proficienies the Devs give Gnomes, whatever weapon types the devs end up choosing may be.

[Gratch]

I agree with the original poster. Weird to have base weapon proficiency for a race, but the rarely taken racial enhancement chain doesn't support those weapons. Hammers all around.

Once you bring in needing each weapon type to change #hands from race to race, you need to bring up talk about monkey grip. If the monkey grip feat isn't part of that sort of change then the rest of your words are a nonstarter. Also that would affect the animation (and systems) resources. And I'd rather just have a few new halberds/polearms added with a lot less resources than per race weapon #handzing. And more monsters (animation resource wise). Hydras. Goblins. Umberhulk.