What I would like to see from the Artificer pass

[thunir]

All this is obviously been discussed but I wanted to throw my 2 cents in

First off Construct Essence to Construct Exemplar Should be a 1 feat investment that scales with Artifice levels. Its not fair to ask a Fleshi to give up 3 additional feat slots to what a Warforged gets for free, with almost no draw back. This is a class based on construct feats and enhancements, the 3 feat requirement is just poor game play if nothing else.

Second Give Arcane Empowerment back to all Artificers at 20, this is a half hearted enhancement and hardly usable in game. Give the Arcanotechnician a decent Capstone.

[thunir]

Battle Engineer: Should stay the classic Arti game play with Rune arm / Repeater focus.

Repeater damage should at least match Mechanic in respect to the +1 Crit Mulitplier

Take out the Bastard sword "Hand and a Half Training" plus speed boost Completely leave it for Ruinic Champion. Ruinic Champion should also get Item Defence.

With each core give +8 spell power as it currently does per Runearm charge tier.

10/20/30 Force SP

I would like to see the 3 Rune arm enhancements be awarded in the cores and have the two Rune arm overcharges in the First 2 enhancement lines within reach of the other Arti trees and multi-classers. Put Infused Weapons and Infused Armor in the enhancement tree and well take them if we want them.

I would like to see +2 Ranged power with the 1st-4th tiers leading up to Endless Fusilade with the 5th tier giving something like Draconic Reinvigoration in the Thunderforged craft. What ever you do, don't leave it a +1 to hit as it is currently. An 8 AP investment just for +4 to hit and access to Endless Fusilade is horrible.

I would like Battle Engineer to receive Fletching as in the Mechanic line

I would also place the 10%-20% ASF removal in the tree and not in the cores, Kind of like the Placement on Warchanter for medium Armor proficiency. This way its not a wasted enhancement for those that dont need it.

4th tier should get +1/2/3 to DC of Rune arm (rune arm only not Evocation)

5th tier should include and enhancement that would allow a greater percentage of Spell power attributed to Rune arm damage again. Test it out to make sure its balanced but if its not 100 % the put in a level 28 ED Feat that caps 100% Spell power to Rune Arms that even Multi-Classes can take.

I would suggest 12/18/25% on 5th tier Enhancement and 25% Feat bonus on the lvl 28 ED Feat.

[thunir]

Ruinic Champion: Enhancement line that focuses on Melee DPS and Defense/Armor enhancements

The Cores:
Core 1 Should Bastard Sword/ Dwarven Axe Profediency for free and give +3 Melee Power with ever tier of Runearm charge.

Core 2 Strategic combat I and +1 to combat feats

Core 3 Could Grant 1/3 INT multiplier to Combat Feats such as PDK does for CHA. and make it anti-requesent to Know the Angles.

Core 4 Strategic Combat ll, + 1 to Combat feats

Core 5 Should be +2 INt +2 CON and a large weapon Buff. I would suggest Cacophony or a Force variant with the same proc rate. I would really suggest Lightning strike or Disintegration but I know the Devs wont do it for whatever reason.

In the Enhancements I would like to see:

Item Defense

A New Armor infusion SLA that costs 18/12/6 SP and Gives 2/4/6 PRR

A tiered enhancement line that gives +1 and 2% Glancing Blows like the current BE tree. Then Speed Boost and caps at the 5th tier with +1 Crit Multiplier like the Warchanter line.

An enhancement that removes the 3x Cooldown From Combat Expertise

Would like to see a weapon enhancement that gives Force 1d6 and then on the next tier have it to enhance 1d20 on Crit that scales with 200% spell power

I also Imagine an Rune arm enhancement line that serves to mimmic Shield Mastery and Improved Shield Mastery to improved double strike and Mele power in 2 tiers. It could also serve as a Pre-req for Legendary Shiled Mastery in the Setinal ED.

I think this line would also need something like Battering Barage like the swashbuckler enhancement. Destruction/Improved Destruction +1d6/2d6 rust . Or maybe the opposite, an Armor enhancement that applies destruction when hit?

This would be a good place for Weapon attachment/ Enhanced weapon attachment also.

Fifth tier should have an Enhancement that allows all Rune arms to charge to 5th tier. As I see it Runearms are already specked for this anyway and that would allow this line a little more flavor and let them use the lower level Runearms made for close combat that this build is going to want.

[thunir]

Saved

[Starla70]

I would like see the dog be worth using in Epic. I will think of other things as I dig out my artie.

[Ligraph]

I like the idea for BE, but I would like it to focus on magical traps and tactical constructions thingies, as well. Maybe put the runearm enhancements into Runic Champion (assuming it's runearmed focuesed because of the name).

[Khatzhas]

Battle Engineer: Should stay the classic Arti game play with Rune arm / Repeater focus.

Repeater damage should at least match Mechanic with the +1 Crit Mulitplier

Take out the Bastard sword "Hand and a Half Training" plus speed boost Completely leave it for Ruinic Champion. Ruinic Champion should also get Item Defence.

Artificer crossbow damage should be lower than Mechanic crossbow damage, because Artificers have the Runearm, spells and their Defender providing damage as well.
That said, Artificers do need some method of improving the scaling of their damage into epic levels. I've wondered about the BE cores giving straight multipliers to weapon enhancements rather than just pluses. Or perhaps a scaling chance of a melee or crossbow attack delivering full runearm blast damage rather than the imbue.

If you want to slim down the tree, I would remove the rune arm enhancements and keep (and improve) the melee option. The Battle Engineer is all about the physical combat, including magical enhancement of weapons and armour. The only reason to separate out melee enhancements from the crossbow ones is so you could take both, which seems unnecessary to me.

I would like Battle Engineer to receive Fletching as in the Mechanic line

Probably isn't really necessary since Conjure bolts or Flame Arrow produces so many. It also leaves the niche of using found bolts with special properties to Mechanics.

I would like BE to include the Mechanic Improved Traps ability that improves the DCs of your traps however.
I'd also add enhancements ("Mystic Tools"?) that improve the range of Open Lock and Disable Device skills. (Performing a similar function to a Rogue's Evasion ability when it comes to trapping.)

I would also place the 10%-20% ASF removal in the tree and not in the cores, Kind of like the Placement on Warchanter for medium Armor proficiency. This way its not a wasted enhancement for those that dont need it.

Its free with the cores currently. Nothing is wasted.
Actually having to spend points on it would probably be a waste, although I think that there might be a bug with some artificer spells at the moment making it more useful.

I like the idea for BE, but I would like it to focus on magical traps and tactical constructions thingies, as well. Maybe put the runearm enhancements into Runic Champion (assuming it's runearmed focuesed because of the name).

I think that he is trying to make Runic Champion (the name of the melee path) an entire separate tree for melee artificers.

[Khatzhas]

Some thought I had a while back:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...40#post5678840

Personally I would change the Artificer trees something more like this:

Battle Engineer: the physical combat and trapping tree.

Move Rune arm bonuses to Master maker tree, both core and tree.

Cores: instead of +1s to weapons and armour, make them multipliers. So Infused weapon I multiplies the weapon's enhancement bonus by 1.5. II doubles the bonus. Same with infused armour. (Possibly even doubles for I and triples for II if that isn't excessive.)

Add an option for one-handed weapons (or any weapon) to the crossbows and hand-and-a-half selectors for the weapon Training. Rethink the bonuses and costs based on the newer examples like Rogue Mechanic tree.

Add Improved Traps from the Rogue Mechanic tree, but at a higher tier.

Above that, add an enhancement to increase the range of open lock and disable device skills.

Tier 5, drop an improved turret or something similar. Perhaps a spinning blade trap. (The type that pop out from the ground.)

Add multiselector enhancements to improve weapons and armour. (Similar to Harper Tree but perhaps more options.) Such as elemental resistance, PRR, MRR, based on enhancement bonus of armour. (Pick one).
Higher tier add multiselector for things like Deathblock, feather falling, underwater action, Shield.

Tier 2(?) and 3(?) Select weapons or armour. Doubles the duration of spells that enhance them.


Arcanotechnician: Spellcasting.

Move the Iron defender enhancements to Master Maker tree.

Add higher tier (or core 4) additional boost to Wand Mastery. (Possibly selector to apply a metamagic feat you have to any spell cast from an item.(May not be feasible due to coding.))

Add some (force?) based SLAs/enhancements to reduce focus on electrical damage.

Either change the max caster level of the SLAs in the tree, add enhancements/cores that increase the max caster level, or pick different spells that don't max out at level 10.
(Or ideally, change the actual Artificer spells that they are based on.)


Master Maker: Magical devices and Constructs.

Add the Rune arm enhancements from Battle engineer.

Add enhancements to increase the Spellpower scaling of Rune arms.

Add the Iron defender enhancements from Arcanotechnician. Rethink some of them, such as the Arcane Engine to improve the combat capability and survivability.

Add a few more enhancements based on Construct Essence. Increase repair amp. ->Casting Construct-only spells on yourself. -> Taking Warforged feats. -> Gain warforged immunities, gain Construct type, lose humanoid type.
(I would add ability to use docents/now look like a Warforged but that might be unfeasible due to appearance changes.)
Perhaps on a selector that allows Warforged to go the other way: increase healing amp and gradually become more humanoid instead.


Any thoughts?

[thunir]

Artificer crossbow damage should be lower than Mechanic crossbow damage, because Artificers have the Runearm, spells and their Defender providing damage as well.

Mechanics have additional damage in the form of at least 12hd of sneak attack per hit, Probably much more. Any Rouge worth their salt is going to know how to Max this out and take full advantage.

If you want to slim down the tree, I would remove the rune arm enhancements and keep (and improve) the melee option.

I dont want to slim down the tree, I would like to see every option filled. I just giving brief suggestions on wasted game play and the the way I think the trees should be structured. Mele options should be in the Ruinic champion line.

Probably isn't really necessary since Conjure bolts or Flame Arrow produces so many. It also leaves the niche of using found bolts with special properties to Mechanics.

Fletching gives 10 Ranged power, and managing Bolts isnt very fun so far as I am concerned. Artificers are the craftsman of the Game and their niche is crafted bolts, so I fail to see a difference.

Its free with the cores currently. Nothing is wasted.

ASF is free in the cores and that is the problem, because personally as an Artie you rarely need it. You can itemize to remove most of it, and its already in the Warforged enhancements. I would still rather have it in an AP investment and save the cores for the rune arm enhancements. Really the focus of this balance is to put the 2 Runearm overcharge within range of the other Artificer trees or Multi-classes for the divestment. The overcharge enhancements are the most useful and they are not really over powered. I dont think its tier 4/5 material.

As for the Mechanic/trap enhancement I believe that belongs in the Archanotechnician tree

[Xionanx]

I want Rune Arms removed from the game

I want Artificiers to be masters of using wands and clickies like they are supposed to be

Being the only class that can "Max + Empower" a wand, recharge wands, and cast wands as if a max level caster..


Rune Arms are LAME "Stat Sticks" and nothing more.. they were a bad idea that was poorly implemented, and frankly I dont think anyone would be sorry to see them go (save for the people who want the "Stats" it provides)

EDIT: To elaborate a little..

Artificers should be able to:

1. Attack with wands as fast as a warlock casts spells from their hands
2. Expend charges from wands down to "1" and then use their spell points to "Recharge" the wand (or keep casting from the wand)
3. Apply their spell power to wands
4. Possibly even DUAL wield wands

I see a medium armor wearer with NO arcane spell failure who wields a shield in one hand and a wand the in the other, relying solely on wands was their attack damage source.. NOT CROSSBOWS.

[Khatzhas]

Mechanics have additional damage in the form of at least 12hd of sneak attack per hit, Probably much more. Any Rouge worth their salt is going to know how to Max this out and take full advantage.

I included additional damage (sneak attack, rune arm imbues etc.) in those thoughts. I didn't realise that you weren't. The big issue that I see is that Rogue additional damage scales much better with level.

Fletching gives 10 Ranged power, and managing Bolts isnt very fun so far as I am concerned. Artificers are the craftsman of the Game and their niche is crafted bolts, so I fail to see a difference.

Artificers can create their own magical bolts. Rogues have to stick with what they can scavenge. (Or buy from Artificers ) Bonus Attack power can be added into another enhancement.

ASF is free in the cores and that is the problem, because personally as an Artie you rarely need it. You can itemize to remove most of it, and its already in the Warforged enhancements. I would still rather have it in an AP investment and save the cores for the rune arm enhancements. Really the focus of this balance is to put the 2 Runearm overcharge within range of the other Artificer trees or Multi-classes for the divestment. The overcharge enhancements are the most useful and they are not really over powered. I dont think its tier 4/5 material.

I think that the point is that its not worth a full AP enhancement section, so its included into the tree based on armour as a freebie. Simply removing a low-value effect from a core does not justify being able to swap in a higher-value effect unless what you're actually after is an outright buff. In which case why not add the effect straight in to the core outright?

If you're removing the weapon and armour enchantments into a different tree, the ASF improvements should probably also move. Currently the BE tree is for weapon (both melee and ranged) and armour skill and enhancements. If you're moving those into another tree, move them all.

As for the Mechanic/trap enhancement I believe that belongs in the Archanotechnician tree

Its a toss-up based on whether you regard Traps as based around physical mechanisms and enchanting them (BE) or magical spell effects (ACT).