Drow rogue dex build questions

[jcmcminis]

So I am going to build a dex based drow. Mainly using the assassin tree. Before anyone asks I do not have access to Harper tree. jUST couple of pro/con questions.

1) Should I go pure rogue or should I splash in some ranger for the free twf feats.
2) Seeing as I can get dex to hit and damage with Kukri's via assassin tree should I go rapiers or Kukri.

Thanks in advance

[Arkantios]

Dex based is definitely a good choice if you dont have the harper tree access.

1) Definitely go pure if you plan to be an assassin. The capstone is too good. Take a look at the dex build in my signature if you have questions about feats. It's a bit of a squish but its possible.

2) If you are going straight through the assassin tree kukri's/daggers will be the same. Itll just be your personal preference.

[Saekee]

There are not a lot of good named kukris, unfortunately, so many have focused on daggers. Heroics have some very nice daggers like Guardian of the Liturgy.
Do you plan to do epics? The only advantage of kukris is that if you plan to craft high end weapons (like a TF weapon or ToEE set), the kukri is at least of use of many other classes whereas only assassins (and swashbuckler/swash splashes) can get any use out of a dagger.

From 1-11, definitely use kukris since you won't get the Tier 5 Knife Spec until level 12; until then, kukris are inherently better. Tiefling's assassin blade would also do well up until level 11.

[Enderoc]

3 Tempest Ranger 17 Rogue Acrobat Elf would be very versatile and would have good damage with both scimitars and quarterstaff. Of course I would focus on the Q-staff, but they would be there if you needed them.

[jcmcminis]

not sure about epics at all. I have played the game on and off for a few years but have never gotten a character to above level 11. I am not a subscriber so not even sure I can do epics.

Also quick question about starting stats. Here is what I was planning on but should I not put poins in Cha and put them in Con instead.

Str 8
Dex 19
Con 10
Int 16
Wis 8
Cha 15

[Erofen]

not sure about epics at all. I have played the game on and off for a few years but have never gotten a character to above level 11. I am not a subscriber so not even sure I can do epics.

Also quick question about starting stats. Here is what I was planning on but should I not put poins in Cha and put them in Con instead.

Str 8
Dex 19
Con 10
Int 16
Wis 8
Cha 15

You can do epics without subscribing. You will be hard pressed for xp though if you do not have any epic level packs. Vault of Night is definitely a must have for xp in epics. Can ride that all the way to cap if you wanted to.

Yes, Con will do you more good imo. Your charisma skills like umd and bluff will be high enough with just items and stuff.

[jcmcminis]

You can do epics without subscribing. You will be hard pressed for xp though if you do not have any epic level packs. Vault of Night is definitely a must have for xp in epics. Can ride that all the way to cap if you wanted to.

Yes, Con will do you more good imo. Your charisma skills like umd and bluff will be high enough with just items and stuff.

Ok thanks

[Erofen]

Ok thanks

No problem.

[C-Dog]

...starting stats. Here is what I was planning on but should I not put points in Cha and put them in Con instead.

...
Con 10
...
Cha 15

Yeah, -2 to Con is a tough hit, and you need all the Con you can get. As a rule of thumb (i.e. if you are not 100% ~sure~ you know better), putting 6 pts into Con is a good plan for any build, and Rogues ~tend~ toward the squishy side to begin with. That's a min 12 Con for Drow, and 13-14* wouldn't hurt a bit.

Unlike DnD, you can't just "play smart" and hope it will all work out - sometimes it's just a matter of math, and if you don't have the points you just won't survive the Boss' AoE attacks that you can trust will come.

(* Also unlike DnD, random +Con gear will rain down, so you can pick up an odd number without too much trouble. Unless you're an expert and plan your end-game gear to the last trinket augment slot, 13 < 12 - altho' someone with that expertise may chime in otherwise.)


Also, with only 8 Str you'll have a little trouble with encumbrance at early levels, until you get some +St gear boosts. Ymmv on that. <shrugs>

[Saekee]

I don't recommend you aim for epic play with this toon since your highest level has been 11. I suggest your goal be to get to 20 and TR. That makes build choices more flexible, especially multiclassing.
The assassin playstyle is one of the most rewarding in the game and really kicks in at level 12. If you plan to play it to the max, then you want to be pure to raise your assassinate DC. However, if you remain in heroics and Tr at 20, you can splash 2 levels to buff yourself in which case I would recommend 2 barbarian. That will give you access to Ear Smash and even more run speed. You miss out on the powerful level 18-20 cores but those levels will end quickly anyway before you TR. You might get discouraged before then so better to frontload your power!

You could also splash 2 of any other class like paladin, cleric etc. Do not splash an arcane class as that will
lower your qualifying BAB too much.

TBH I recommend you do a dragonmarked halfling, dex based, for your first run. The healing will make things easier and it is very solid (master assassin slarden here on the forums has the build info if you are interested).

[unbongwah]

Typical first-life F2P drow Assassin:

Drow Assassin
Rogue 20
True Neutral Drow


Stats
               28pt     Level Up
               ----     --------
Strength         8       4: DEX
Dexterity       20       8: DEX
Constitution    14      12: DEX
Intelligence    12      16: DEX
Wisdom           8      20: DEX
Charisma        10      24: DEX
                        28: DEX

Skills
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Disable   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Open Lo   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Search    4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Spot      4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Bluff     4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Hide      4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Move Si   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Tumble    4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
UMD       4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         36  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9


Feats

 1        : Two Weapon Fighting
 3        : Precision
 6        : Weapon Finesse
 9        : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10 Rogue  : Improved Evasion
12        : Improved Critical: Piercing
13 Rogue  : Defensive Roll
15        : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16 Rogue  : Opportunist
18        : Dodge OR Sap
19 Rogue  : Crippling Strike
21 Epic   : Improved Sneak Attack
24 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic   : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Harbinger of Chaos
30 Epic   : Watchful Eye
30 Legend : Scion of: Ethereal Plane


Enhancements (80 AP)

Assassin (43 AP)

Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick, Nimbleness, Lethality, Deadly Shadow
Poison Strikes: Heartseeker, Sneak Attack Training
Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost III
Critical Mastery III, Sneak Attack Training
Execute, Killer III, Weakening Strikes, Sneak Attack Training
Assassinate, Measure the Foe III, Deadly Strikes, Knife Specialization, Light Armor Mastery III

Thief-Acrobat (24 AP)

Staff Control, Stick Fighting, Tumbler, Kip Up
Sly Flourish III, Fast Movement
Subtlety III, Haste Boost III
Shadow Dodge III
Improved Defensive Roll III

Drow (13 AP)

Spell Resistance, Dexterity, Spell Resistance II, Dexterity, Spell Resistance III
Keen Senses III
(none)
Improved Dodge III


Destiny (24 AP)

Shadowdancer

Stealthy III, Technician I
Lithe III, Skill Mastery
Shrouding Strike II, Grim Precision III
Improved Invisibility I, Pierce the Gloom
Untouchable, Executioner's Strike I, Sealed Soul
Shadow Form, Dark Imbuement

Twists of Fate (26 fate points)

Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
Extra Action Boost (Tier 1 Dreadnought)

• Feats: the must-haves are TWF x3, Precision, Improved Crit, Improved Sneak Atk, Overwhelming Crit, and PTWF. That leaves two heroic, two epic, and two ED feats. Finesse is there mostly to gain DEX to dmg with light maces for fighting skeletons; it also lets you use rapiers until lvl 12 when you'll switch to daggers. After that, I spread my feats between survivability bonuses (Dodge, Epic DR, Elusive Target) and one usability feature (Watchful Eye). Harbinger of Chaos seems to be the preferred endgame option for those not going for Dire Charge; and Scion of Ethereal Plane feels like the best thematic fit for a DEX Assassin.
• Skills: naturally you'll want max UMD and trap skills; I also max Hide & MS both for stealth and to boost Ethereal Plane's SA bonus. After that it's a matter of personal preference; I maxed Bluff and Tumble because who doesn't like backflips?!
• Enhancements: at least 41 APs Assassin for capstone, natch; after that it's up to you, although there are strong incentives to spend at least 21 APs in Acrobat for Kip Up and Shadow Dodge. I decided to pick up extra DEX, Dodge, and Spell Resistance from drow tree (I'm hoping with Insightful gear bonuses, SR is finally useful); and Imp Defensive Roll for more survivability. Only downside is I had to choose between No Mercy or Imp Dodge; if you decide you don't need the extra Dodge, I'd consider Sap instead, which is helpful when soloing. EDIT: you may also want to shift APs into Mechanic for trapping bonuses and Wand&Scroll Mastery.

EDIT: http://ddowiki.com/page/Categoryaggers

Some worthwhile daggers: Sky Pirate Dagger (d6 base dmg & same crit profile as a keen khopesh), Assassin's Kiss (+1 crit multiplier & Assassinate bonus), Nightforge Stiletto (increased crit range & Relic of a Sovereign Past is easily farmed for gear), Ancient Vulkoorim Dagger (great for Gianthold), Guardian of the Liturgy (d10 base dmg+Bleed+Heartseeker), Slice & Dice.

[Arkantios]

Typical first-life F2P drow Assassin:

• Feats: the must-haves are TWF x3, Precision, Improved Crit, Improved Sneak Atk, Overwhelming Crit, and PTWF. That leaves two heroic, two epic, and two ED feats. Finesse is there mostly to gain DEX to dmg with light maces for fighting skeletons; it also lets you use rapiers until lvl 12 when you'll switch to daggers. After that, I spread my feats between survivability bonuses (Dodge, Epic DR, Elusive Target) and one usability feature (Watchful Eye). Harbinger of Chaos seems to be the preferred endgame option for those not going for Dire Charge; and Scion of Ethereal Plane feels like the best thematic fit for a DEX Assassin.
• Skills: naturally you'll want max UMD and trap skills; I also max Hide & MS both for stealth and to boost Ethereal Plane's SA bonus. After that it's a matter of personal preference; I maxed Bluff and Tumble because who doesn't like backflips?!
• Enhancements: at least 41 APs Assassin for capstone, natch; after that it's up to you, although there are strong incentives to spend at least 21 APs in Acrobat for Kip Up and Shadow Dodge. I decided to pick up extra DEX, Dodge, and Spell Resistance from drow tree (I'm hoping with Insightful gear bonuses, SR is finally useful); and Imp Defensive Roll for more survivability. Only downside is I had to choose between No Mercy or Imp Dodge; if you decide you don't need the extra Dodge, I'd consider Sap instead, which is helpful when soloing.

Ehh..I prefer Power attack and cleave over precision. But for a first life, that's kinda rough.

[C-Dog]

Ehh..I prefer Power attack and cleave over precision. But for a first life, that's kinda rough.

What's the diff? Stat points are unchanged on Drow.

[unbongwah]

What's the diff? Stat points are unchanged on Drow.

Power Atk req's base STR 13; and due to feat pre-reqs, you'd want to take it NLT lvl 6. So it reqs a different stat split.

[relenttless]

I'm thinking of going drow rogue for my next life (flavour, and never having played a drow are the main reasons.... )- rummaging around on this page I never seem to see drow rogues using shortswords? I only ask because I possess a few decent ones on this toon from bard life so would like to use them (razorend, celestia, complete TF) I would have thought celestia in particular would work nicely for an assassin?
Is there something I'm missing about using shortswords whereby daggers are that much superior? I have a few good daggers as well, so was thinking of a shortsword main hand dagger off hand combo.

[Hobgoblin]

I'm thinking of going drow rogue for my next life (flavour, and never having played a drow are the main reasons.... )- rummaging around on this page I never seem to see drow rogues using shortswords? I only ask because I possess a few decent ones on this toon from bard life so would like to use them (razorend, celestia, complete TF) I would have thought celestia in particular would work nicely for an assassin?
Is there something I'm missing about using shortswords whereby daggers are that much superior? I have a few good daggers as well, so was thinking of a shortsword main hand dagger off hand combo.

mostly its the knife specialization -

turns daggers into khophesh crit profile

[relenttless]

hmmmm I knew I was missing something obvious...hey-ho...shame

[unbongwah]

mostly its the knife specialization -

turns daggers into khophesh crit profile

No, it makes them better than khopeshes: 18-20/x3 vs 19-20/x3; which becomes 15-20/x4 with IC:Pierce and Lethality as well.