Artificer Revamp and Third Tree

[Xiongrey]

it would do a max of 25 damage compared to 28 for Archon, but this version of the cannon also does splash damage which is why I reduced its firing rate to every 5 seconds compared to the Archon's 2 seconds.

[Ligraph]

it would do a max of 25 damage compared to 28 for Archon, but this version of the cannon also does splash damage which is why I reduced its firing rate to every 5 seconds compared to the Archon's 2 seconds.

Yeah, the damage seems fine (although idk how good archon is). I was more thinking about how it's more fun to see thing thing on your shoulder going "pew pew pew pew" than something going "pew... pew... pew...".

I still would like to see powerups with cooldowns/costs though.

[Xiongrey]

A Charge ability maybe. Maybe with a knockdown.

the haymaker ability I did for it is a charge ability with stun, the battlefist slam is an AOE knock down with added force damage.

[Xiongrey]

I added the Miniature Magefire Cannon as a Tier 5 in the Renegade Mastermaker tree. I will leave it there for now and see if I can get some more opinions on it.

[Khatzhas]

Couple of points:
Shields: The DDO Artificer has shield proficiency because the Pen & Paper Artificer does. Runearms don't exist in PnP though, hence the discrepancy between the having and using shield proficiency in DDO.

Sappers: Both Rogues and Artificers are able to create damaging elemental "explosives" either as grenades or mines using Trapmaking. This allows them to also produce other effects, like traps that hold their victim in place or other effects.

In terms of distinguishing the two, Mechanic Rogues use mechanisms, and relatively common alchemicals like acid and explosives. And dirty tricks. Artificers use magic imbued into items. At the end of the day, the effects of a satchel charge and a flint rock with a rune of elemental fire charged into it are the same, but the ethos and methods are different.

take a look, I bumbed the repeater damage slightly, so now BE is without a doubt built for repeaters, while Mechanics is built for GXB. but don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that a BE would be the best repeater builds out there, just that they themselves are focused more on repeaters.

every rank of Crossbow Training is now: +1 to attack and damage rolls with all crossbows, and another +1 to damage rolls with repeating crossbows.

that alone is a total of +6 per shot compared to whats on live. not a huge amount by its self but taken with all the other changes I have done, I think it would be enough to make them competitive.

Mechanics aren't built just for GXB: Repeaters are often the best choice for them. The Mechanic tree is well-designed in that you can choose between them.

The idea behind giving non-repeaters additional damage in the BE tree was to try to even up the difference and not lock Artificers into a single weapon type. It didn't work because the non-repeater additional damage just wasn't high enough.

Repeaters are more than competitive at low-medium levels. They are extremely powerful up to the high heroics. At which point the issue is that very little of the artificer damage scales.
Your changes just make them even more overpowered at the low end, while doing nothing to fix the actual problem at the high end.

Rogue "per shot" damage is mostly from sneak attack, which scales with attack power. Thus increases well even into epic advancement.
Artificer "per shot" damage is from several different sources: Rune arm imbue, which doesn't increase much. Weapon imbue like Deadly, which currently doesn't increase, etc.
Now, Artificer crossbow damage isn't meant to be equal to Rogue damage, because the Artificer has additional sources of damage from spells (many of which max out Caster level 15), iron defender (which doesn't scale into high level either) and runearms (which have had issues with DCs and damage scaling into epics as well).

[Xiongrey]

Shields, yeah I got rid of that line of enhancements as it seemed no one was interested in it.

In terms of the traps, grenades, and turret ideas I have presented, are you saying you don't like them at all, or that they need changed thematically to fit Arti's better?

I never stated Mechanics are built JUST for GXB's. Just meant to say that they have bigger bonuses to them than they do to repeaters. And, Yes, I know that is because of the firing rate difference. I agree that my changes to BE's crossbow training aren't the correct solution. I stated previously that repeaters do ok in heroics. And having you point out that those changes will make them overpowered at the low end and not fix the problem at the high end, made me realize that I have to go back to the drawing board on it. Any Ideas on how we can get weapon damage on BE's to scale better in Epic content?

EDIT: well I guess not just weapon damage but BE damage in general.

[Xiongrey]

If I reverted the crossbow training back to default, do you think the changes I have made to the BE's cores would be enough to help it scale?

[Xiongrey]

I added in some caps, as I felt some splashes could abuse these. Yay or Nay?

Infused Weapons: You gain +1 bonus to your attack roll to confirm a critical hit, and a +1 bonus to the damage of your critical hits (before multipliers) per enhancement bonus of your equipped weapons (capped by your Artificer level).

Infused Armor: your equipped armor grants you +1 PRR/MRR per enhancement bonus of your equipped armor (capped by your Artificer level) and -10% ASF.

[Xiongrey]

What about my old Imbued Weapons idea as a Battle Engineer Tier 5. It would give a DPS bump that scales into epics.

Imbued Weapons: [Toggle] Choose an element (Acid, Cold, Electricity or Fire). Weapon attacks gain 1d6 damage of that element. At character level 20, and every 5 levels there after, it gains an additional 1d6. (Scales with Spell Power)
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 No requirements

EDIT: added to BE tree

EDIT #2: Another option for this is to instead, make the Elemental Weapon spell scale with spell power and caster or character level, similar to what I have here. But would probably have to change the spell to stack with Deadly Weapons or else it doesn't really help the issue. I like this option the best because: 1: elemental weapon spell doesn't become obsolete once you get deadly weapons, 2: available to all Artificers, not just Battle Engineers. I think I will try that, I will remove it from BE Tier 5 and put it in the Spells section.

[Xiongrey]

added this to the list of spells that need revamped

Elemental Weapon: (Target: Self only) The weapon currently equipped in your main hand gains hit effect: 1d6 elemental damage of your choice. At caster level 20, and again at caster level 25 , this spell grants an additional 1d6 damage of the chosen element. This spell is affected by spell power. No longer counts as a temporary item enchantment.

[Xiongrey]

Updated the traps in Renegade Mastermaker to scale with caster level. Also made the leg trap and proximity mine interruptible.

EDIT: Changed the traps to be of a more quasi magical technological origin. Fits the theme of an Artificer better.

[Xiongrey]

Almost a 1000 views and no more feedback or criticism? Did I nail it perfectly or that far from the answer? Or is everyone just sick of seeing Artificer pass idea threads?

[killmasterules]

Almost a 1000 views and no more feedback or criticism? Did I nail it perfectly or that far from the answer? Or is everyone just sick of seeing Artificer pass idea threads?

For me it's the fact were gonna see it in a week... We can sit and pass around idea's and speculate all we want. But the thing is done atleast from my understanding

[Xiongrey]

The whole deal is done? I mean, I heard rumors on the forums that an Arcanotechnician pass might be included in update 30, but I didn't know it was the whole thing, oh well, I think whatever is done will probably be cool, might not be what I was hoping for, but at least its a pass I guess.

[CThruTheEgo]

The bonus to doublestrike/doubleshot in the battle engineer cores is OK. Because of the 1/3 doubleshot to repeaters bs, I'd rather see melee and ranged power though. I also like the PRR/MRR from infused armor, but I'd say that should be increased considerably, like maybe +5 and 10. My initial response to con being a stat option in battle engineer was that it didn't fit, but thinking about it further, I think it is thematically appropriate. Rune arm rapid fire and overload are interesting ideas. I'd rather not see more +1 crit multiplier/threat range in the enhancement passes, but since that has become so prevalent, it is almost essential for the non-revamped classes to catch up with the revamped ones. I'm not creative enough to come up with alternatives which would add a comparable amount of power but with less cheese. Maybe something like rune arm weapon imbue damage scales with spell power and spell crit?

Overall, arcanotechnician still seems underwhelming to me, although I'm not sure how to improve it. The capstone changes are interesting. It should definitely be +4 int. I still wonder how your proposed changes would affect the value of clickies. Would they be worth it with those changes? I don't know. I definitely think the crit chance should be increased to 2%. I like the changes to automated repairs and arcane engine.

The renegade mastermaker is an interesting concept. I like the idea of a tree focused on modifying oneself. The tree overall looks decent. And miniature magefire cannon... hell... yeah. Because why wouldn't an artificer have a shoulder cannon!

I definitely think the rune arm movement speed penalty needs to go. It ties artificers too much to battle engineer tier 5.

I like the changes to deadly weapons. It is definitely in need of an upgrade.

[Xiongrey]

Thanks for giving it a look Ego, although it sounds like I was too late getting my ideas out there before the pass. But if I were to respond to your comments as if this may still be a valid thread, I would just say in my defense that I probably undershot everything because I didn't want to come off as asking for to much out of the Arti pass. Any who, sounds like we will get a preview of the pass in a week or so, so we will see.

[CThruTheEgo]

Thanks for giving it a look Ego, although it sounds like I was too late getting my ideas out there before the pass. But if I were to respond to your comments as if this may still be a valid thread, I would just say in my defense that I probably undershot everything because I didn't want to come off as asking for to much out of the Arti pass. Any who, sounds like we will get a preview of the pass in a week or so, so we will see.

From the dev post that was made about it, it doesn't sound like they are going to do much of a pass on arti, which is a shame. If that's the case, then yes, what's done is probably done and we will only be getting a brief preview. We'll find out soon enough.

[Grailhawk]

From the dev post that was made about it, it doesn't sound like they are going to do much of a pass on arti, which is a shame. If that's the case, then yes, what's done is probably done and we will only be getting a brief preview. We'll find out soon enough.

What post are you guys talking about?

[CThruTheEgo]

What post are you guys talking about?

Here ya go. Post #16 in that thread if the link doesn't take you directly there.

As far as I know, that's all that's been said about it.

[Xiongrey]

Well, if its just Arcano getting tweeked, then maybe it isn't too late. Maybe we can give them ideas that they can implement between now and update 31. I'm willing to continue this thread if you all are. So let me begin, I took Tactical Mobility out of Battle Engineer because that would allow builds to take the Tier 5s in other trees and not feel like they are severely gimping the rune arm. It is replaced with 2 abilities that expand on the rune arm but not required for it to be effective. I gave the Mastermaker the shoulder cannon because on all the idea threads, this was the most common idea people were asking for. The other was for better turrets. I agree with Ego about the crit multiplier, but it almost seems necessary to bring dps up for later content. Maybe it should be moved to the 18th level core. The PRR bonus and seeker bonus is set to scale because it is tied to the enhancement bonus of the weapon. Seemed like something unique while not being hard to implement. With current endgame weapons and the bonuses they get from infused weapons that's up to +17 seeker and endgame armor and bonuses from infused armor that's +16 PRR or +32 PRR with the 18th level core. A boost from the current +10/+20 PRR they get now. Not huge, but there, and that not counting if someone were to split between Battle Engineer and Renegade Mastermaker. Some may not like the magical trap line, and I'm open to suggestions, it just seemed to fit the theme and works in with the turret idea. I tried to make the Renegade Mastermaker something that fleshies and/or multiclasses could get benefits out of, while obviously better serving the self forged theme. It is also geared a little more to melee Artificer's than Battle Engineer while still not excluding the ranged guys. The traps could be a great asset to ranged guys. And what repeater guy wouldn't like to have a shoulder cannon? I also think it strikes a nice balance of compromise. not all the great stuff is in a single tree and someone would have to think carefully which Tier 5s would suit them the best, as it should be. Thoughts?