Artificer Revamp and Third Tree

[Ligraph]

If the Seeker and doublestrike/ doubleshot was a competence bonus, it would stack with all the bonuses from gear to the best of my knowledge. But then again, a mech dipping into arti could get some of that too.

I think that all the stuff in enhancements stacks by default. Not sure though.

[Xiongrey]

it would then have to be changed to scale with Arti levels to prevent it, which kind of gets rid of the unique mechanic of their stuff scaling with the enhancement bonuses of their equipment

[Xiongrey]

well, I guess it wouldn't need changed, because for a Mechanic to dip far enough to get the bonus to seeker, they would be giving up their bonus to their crit multiplier. that's a trade off one would have to consider.

[Xiongrey]

Elemental Arms: [Toggle] Choose an element (Acid, Cold, Electricity or Fire). While you have a shield equipped, your shield bashes and weapon attacks gain 2d4 damage of that element. At character level 20, and every 5 levels there after, it gains an additional 1d4. This is affected by Spell Power.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requires: Force Shield

If I got rid of the "while you have a shield equipped" part of this, it would give a similar effect, but would be in a different tree.

[Xiongrey]

Being a Tier 5, you would get this 3 levels before Deadly Weapons, so you would benefit from the Elemental Weapons spell from level 6-14, from 12-14 you would benefit from both, then at level 15 you could gain Deadly Weapons, lose Elemental Weapons but still benefit from Elemental Arms. Fair trade off I think. And Elemental Arms is a self targeting spell like ability, so the issue of OP by being able to cast on others is moot.

[Xiongrey]

I made the change. No longer requires a shield to be equipped, but will still benefit those that choose to use a shield.

[Xiongrey]

Anymore thoughts? Anything you would change, add, or subtract? Anyone else have opinions? If there is something about what I've done, that you would rather not be there, speak up. You won't hurt my feelings. Even if its an entire tree or everything. My biggest fear is that we don't make our voices heard before the time comes and they just throw whatever at us and say that's it, that's what you get for an enhancement pass. Also, a side note, I think the perfect time for an Artificer pass is when they update Cannith Crafting. Update all of Cannith with an Epic/Mythic Toven's Hammer!

[Ligraph]

Anymore thoughts? Anything you would change, add, or subtract? Anyone else have opinions? If there is something about what I've done, that you would rather not be there, speak up. You won't hurt my feelings. Even if its an entire tree or everything. My biggest fear is that we don't make our voices heard before the time comes and they just throw whatever at us and say that's it, that's what you get for an enhancement pass. Also, a side note, I think the perfect time for an Artificer pass is when they update Cannith Crafting. Update all of Cannith with an Epic/Mythic Toven's Hammer!

Well since you're asking...

I would still like to see BE be the sapper-type tree. Traping, some support and turret-like stuff, and repeating crossbows. Arcanotech would be caster. And we could get a Runearm tree (for all that stuff), or a Self-forged tree. I personally like the 2 Runearms = something like warlock.

[Xiongrey]

sapper

12b?

[Xiongrey]

Is my proposed changes to the Flame Turret spell not enough? I always gravitate to the engineer types in games. My original thread of this https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ent-Pass-Ideas was a little more to your liking?
I started over only because I thought the proposed changes pretty much required rebuilding the Artificer class from the ground up. I've heard Devs state that the Artificer class isn't in that bad of shape, therefor I assumed it wasn't in the cards for an entire reshuffle and rebuild. So I started this thread from the stand point of minimal changes needed to make them current.

[Ligraph]

12b?

?
Sapper.

Although this was the inspiration. Especially Hedge and Fiddler.

[Xiongrey]

As for the Battle Engineer tree being solely focused on repeating crossbows, I personally wouldn't like that. If it was focused mostly on them, that would be ok I guess, but as someone who has played repeating and melee artificer(not juggernaught) builds, I like the fact that BE is versatile, it can be built different ways for different folk. I tried to keep that and even expand on the artificer's versatility with the shield line and Self Forged tree, I tried to make the Self Forge offer something to ranged and melee guys, and to fleshies and warforged/construct essence guys almost equally. The BE may slightly lean to ranged guys more with the rune arm, while the Self Forged leans a little more to the melee guys. The Arconatechnician of course leans to the caster side.

[Xiongrey]

?
Sapper.

Although this was the inspiration. Especially Hedge and Fiddler.

Sorry, I was asking if you were a 12 Bravo. That is a Sapper in the Army. A Combat Engineer. I don't hear many people refer to Sappers so I kinda assumed you were a fellow Sapper

[Xiongrey]

Maybe that is why I always gravitate to the engineer types in games.

[Xiongrey]

I would love to make Battle Engineers into Sappers. Bangalores, satchel charges, breaching, shape, and cratering charges. The whole works. In the Army, the Sapper is thought of as a MacGyver type, but that is mostly because units don't know how to effectively utilize them as an asset, so they task them to do all kinds of stuff. From building out houses to route security. The main purpose of an Engineer is mobility, to hinder enemy movement, and assisting ally's mobility. whether that means blowing a bridge or constructing one, to breaching a mine field or laying one. Creating an obstacle or destroying it. But to do that in just the Battle Engineer's tree would require pretty much starting from scratch on it, and I didn't do that in this thread for the above reasons.

[Ligraph]

Sorry, I was asking if you were a 12 Bravo. That is a Sapper in the Army. A Combat Engineer. I don't hear many people refer to Sappers so I kinda assumed you were a fellow Sapper

Nope, i just read a lot.

As for the Battle Engineer tree being solely focused on repeating crossbows, I personally wouldn't like that. If it was focused mostly on them, that would be ok I guess, but as someone who has played repeating and melee artificer(not juggernaught) builds, I like the fact that BE is versatile, it can be built different ways for different folk. I tried to keep that and even expand on the artificer's versatility with the shield line and Self Forged tree, I tried to make the Self Forge offer something to ranged and melee guys, and to fleshies and warforged/construct essence guys almost equally. The BE may slightly lean to ranged guys more with the rune arm, while the Self Forged leans a little more to the melee guys. The Arconatechnician of course leans to the caster side.

Yeah. I guess I meant repeater over GXBow for ranged, and 1 and a half handers for melee. I think BE can work just fine for Melees, regardless of SF. Cause Melee can still use Runearm after all.

Is my proposed changes to the Flame Turret spell not enough? I always gravitate to the engineer types in games. My original thread of this https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ent-Pass-Ideas was a little more to your liking?I started over only because I thought the proposed changes pretty much required rebuilding the Artificer class from the ground up. I've heard Devs state that the Artificer class isn't in that bad of shape, therefor I assumed it wasn't in the cards for an entire reshuffle and rebuild. So I started this thread from the stand point of minimal changes needed to make them current.

Flame Turret scales horribly into epics and takes forever to cast. If that was fixed, it would be a lot better.

But I would like a turret that shoots bolts, instead of sprays.
And a bomb-type trap would also be nice . Especially if it effected players too!
Also maybe put the shoulder cannon into BE, it kinda fits there.

Also, a defensive shelter would be neat, like my Arcane Shield.

[Ligraph]

I would love to make Battle Engineers into Sappers. Bangalores, satchel charges, breaching, shape, and cratering charges. The whole works. In the Army, the Sapper is thought of as a MacGyver type, but that is mostly because units don't know how to effectively utilize them as an asset, so they task them to do all kinds of stuff. From building out houses to route security. The main purpose of an Engineer is mobility, to hinder enemy movement, and assisting ally's mobility. whether that means blowing a bridge or constructing one, to breaching a mine field or laying one. Creating an obstacle or destroying it. But to do that in just the Battle Engineer's tree would require pretty much starting from scratch on it, and I didn't do that in this thread for the above reasons.

Yeah. That's kind of what I tried to do, but kinda trading movement impairing for traps. I think this is a good thread for if the devs don't want to do much, but I would like them to rebuild large parts of Arty .

[Xiongrey]

Flame Turret scales horribly into epics and takes forever to cast. If that was fixed, it would be a lot better.

But I would like a turret that shoots bolts, instead of sprays.
And a bomb-type trap would also be nice . Especially if it effected players too!
Also maybe put the shoulder cannon into BE, it kinda fits there.

Also, a defensive shelter would be neat, like my Arcane Shield.

Does the current Flame Turret scale at all? I thought I read somewhere that it is always CR12. I had the shoulder cannon in the BE tree on my previous thread, but someone suggested that it serves the same purpose as the rune arm, free spell damage, and I would have to agree. I had another turret idea in previous thread too, but took it out when someone mention the Devs stating that the trees would stay mostly how they are, and I think I had read that on the forums or heard it in their podcast too. I had several bomb/traps abilities in the previous thread also, but I had them in the arcano tree. As for Arcane Shield, Artificer's already have that as a spell, and Eldritch Knight has it as an ability. I didn't want to copy and paste too much from other trees, and I don't want to make more Artificer's spells useless , that why I haven't done anything like that. Now maybe if it was some kind of immobile force wall, that all party members could take cover behind, that would be pretty sweet.

[Ligraph]

Does the current Flame Turret scale at all? I thought I read somewhere that it is always CR12.

Probably. I just know it isn't worth using in epics.

I had the shoulder cannon in the BE tree on my previous thread, but someone suggested that it serves the same purpose as the rune arm, free spell damage, and I would have to agree.

What's to stop a Self-Forged from using runearm and shoulder cannon? Or a BE for that matter? I just think it fits better.

I had another turret idea in previous thread too, but took it out when someone mention the Devs stating that the trees would stay mostly how they are, and I think I had read that on the forums or heard it in their podcast too. I had several bomb/traps abilities in the previous thread also, but I had them in the arcano tree.

Yeah, saw that. Idk how different the update will make Arty. Still hoping for a major update.

As for Arcane Shield, Artificer's already have that as a spell, and Eldritch Knight has it as an ability. I didn't want to copy and paste too much from other trees, and I don't want to make more Artificer's spells useless , that why I haven't done anything like that.

Yeah. Still, a stationary one that heals and maybe gave a bit more reduction would be nice. As well as an auto-activation (I know it's in EK, it'd still be nice for an artificer).

Now maybe if it was some kind of immobile force wall, that all party members could take cover behind, that would be pretty sweet.

Yeah.

[Xiongrey]

What if we put all the rune arm stuff into Arcano? Then put traps, bombs, and turrets ideas into BE. Took the shield line out of Self Forged, and added in some new kind of line that fit with its theme better.?

EDIT: And what about the dog, where would he go? I don't think you can fit all the rune arm stuff into the Arcano tree with everything that exists there already. And if he stayed in Arcano, the Arcano tree would have power over both of the Artificer's unique class abilities and the BE would have lost a major source of it damage.


Edit #2: What if we put all the rune arm stuff into Arcano in place of the dog line? Then put traps, bombs, and turrets ideas into BE. Took the shield line out of Self Forged, and added in the dog line?