Monk/Shintao Ideas.

[Grailhawk]

Monk Stance Changes
Sun Stance: +2/2/3/4 Strength, On Hit: +1/1/1/1 Ki, On Crit: +2/3/4/5 Ki, +2/5/7/10 Melee Power. -2 Wisdom
Ocean Stance: +2/2/3/4 Wisdom, +1/2/3/4% Dodge, +2/3/4/5 Saves, +0/0/1/1 passive ki generation +2/5/7/10 Universal Spell power. -2 Strength

Shintao Core
To Seek Perfection: You continually seek physical and spiritual betterment, reaping many benefits. You receive +2 Wisdom. The bonuses you have against attacks from tainted creatures improve to +3. You may now have two monk stances active at the same time while unarmed or with only handwraps equipped as weapons

Tier 1
Remove: Deft Strikes
Add: Improved Stances I:

• Wind Stance: Gain +5% Offhand proc chance
• Mountain Stance: Gain +5 PRR
• Sun Stance: Gain +5 Melee Power
• Ocean Stance: Gain +5 Universal Spell Power

(2 AP)


Tier 2
Remove: Iron Skin
Add: Improved Stances II:

• Wind Stance: Gain +5% Offhand proc chance (Total +10%)
• Mountain Stance: Gain +5 PRR (Total +10)
• Sun Stance: Gain +5 Melee Power (Total +10)
• Ocean Stance: Gain +5 Universal Spell Power (Total +20)

(2 AP)

Tier 3
Add: Improved Stances III:

• Wind Stance: Gain +5% Offhand proc chance (Total +15%)
• Mountain Stance: Gain +5 PRR (Total +15)
• Sun Stance: Gain +5 Melee Power (Total +15)
• Ocean Stance: Gain +5 Universal Spell Power (Total +30)

(2 AP)

Tier 4
Move: Instinctive Defense to 4th column, and remove Iron Skin requirement.
Add: Improved Stances IV:

• Wind Stance: Gain +5% Offhand proc chance (Total +20%)
• Mountain Stance: Gain +5 PRR (Total +20)
• Sun Stance: Gain +5 Melee Power (Total +20)
• Ocean Stance: Gain +5 Universal Spell Power (Total +40)

(2 AP)


Tier 5
Meditation of War Requires: Improved Stances IV

• Wind Stance: +10% offhand double strike, +5% To Hit
• Mountain Stance: +10 PRR, +3% HP
• Sun Stance: +10 Melee Power, +2 Damage
• Ocean Stance: +10 Universal Spell Power, +5 Max Dodge bonus

(2 AP)
Violence Begets Violence: Every time you are hit combat gain +1 insight bonus to critical threat range until you successfully critically hit. Every time you are not hit by an opponents attack you gain +1% Dodge and Max Dodge until you successfully critically hit, this stacks up to 20 times.



My thoughts on the other monk trees.
Ninja Spy
Henshin

[Saekee]

Violence begets violence should have a counterpart in Peace begets Peace. Have one cause increased threat, multipliers etc as one is hit & hits back; have the other debuff and slow down an enemy while one is missed while incrementing dodge. Only one is essentially active, or perhaps as a toggle.

[Grailhawk]

Violence begets violence should have a counterpart in Peace begets Peace. Have one cause increased threat, multipliers etc as one is hit & hits back; have the other debuff and slow down an enemy while one is missed while incrementing dodge. Only one is essentially active, or perhaps as a toggle.

Interesting, I wouldn't separate them not in a tier 5.

violence begets violence:
On takeing damage: +1 critical threat range this stacks until your next critical hit.
On being missed/dodge/concealed/incorporeal: +1% dodge and max dodge this stacks until your next critical hit (could be very interesting and OP if you can just intim and keep threat) (maybe add a limit this stacks up to 45 and will not allow your total max dodge to go beyond 75 or something like that)

[Kielbasa]

Overall a big improvement over what is currently in the tree. Ocean stance seems like a blatant boost to monkchers, thrower builds and possibly casters. Not sure why monks need a huge universal spell power boost like that in the shintao tree. Seeing as ocean stance is meant to be a defensive stance 5% elemental absorption per teir may be a better fit.

[Grailhawk]

Overall a big improvement over what is currently in the tree. Ocean stance seems like a blatant boost to monkchers, thrower builds and possibly casters. Not sure why monks need a huge universal spell power boost like that in the shintao tree. Seeing as ocean stance is meant to be a defensive stance 5% elemental absorption per teir may be a better fit.

I had two thoughts on that

1. Spell power helps light side healing finisher which is fitting for Ocean stance since its always been a more defensive stance.
2. The secondary builds like you listed off could get use out if it.

[Kielbasa]

I had two thoughts on that

1. Spell power helps light side healing finisher which is fitting for Ocean stance since its always been a more defensive stance.
2. The secondary builds like you listed off could get use out if it.

Currently shintao cores give 60 positive spell power with your changes that's 120 positive spell power which is overkill. 20 universal added to the stance is balanced since most of the classes that would splash monk would need feats to max it out but the additional 40 from improved stances is a bit much. 4 levels of monk for 60 universal spell power plus a couple cores from henshin for 10 more force and fire feels over the top. So 80 positive spell power, 70 fire/force, 60 everything else is probably more spell power than most caster trees. Granted that would be at the cost of 3 additional feats and ~28 ap but I doubt you'll be able to sell that to the devs.

[Grailhawk]

Currently shintao cores give 60 positive spell power with your changes that's 120 positive spell power which is overkill. 20 universal added to the stance is balanced since most of the classes that would splash monk would need feats to max it out but the additional 40 from improved stances is a bit much. 4 levels of monk for 60 universal spell power plus a couple cores from henshin for 10 more force and fire feels over the top. So 80 positive spell power, 70 fire/force, 60 everything else is probably more spell power than most caster trees. Granted that would be at the cost of 3 additional feats and ~28 ap but I doubt you'll be able to sell that to the devs.

For some reason I was thinking that Versatile Adept in Harper gave out 1 melee/ranged power and 2 universal spell power per rank. Just double checked and it doesn't so my reason for giving Ocean double the spell power isn't legit. I actually thing it should be halfed across the board now. (will update op on that)

That said a lot of the caster trees give out 1 spell power per every AP spent in them so There is a lot of spell power in the trees if you focus your AP in them.

[Saekee]

I feel like monks need a 'philosophy' intro for each of the stances before the arious enhancements. It is there in what you have done but it is helpful to see the underlying thought.

[Kielbasa]

For some reason I was thinking that Versatile Adept in Harper gave out 1 melee/ranged power and 2 universal spell power per rank. Just double checked and it doesn't so my reason for giving Ocean double the spell power isn't legit. I actually thing it should be halfed across the board now. (will update op on that)

That said a lot of the caster trees give out 1 spell power per every AP spent in them so There is a lot of spell power in the trees if you focus your AP in them.

I'm not 100% against universal spell power in ocean stance but just to give you so opposing thought I would rather see something that works better for pure monks not casters and people who use the arcane archer tree. (You're falling into the same trap the devs did with the arcane archer tree only on a smaller scale. You're building for something that is not inherent to the primary class the tree is meant for. Imagine how much better the aa tree would have been if there was ranged power in it and if the active attacks and imbues had scaled with ranged power.) Back on topic, a monk goes into water stance to increase dodge, saves, and passive ki generation. Giving spell power does not fit this theme. Yes slightly stronger heals for shintaos but how does this help a dark path monk who has no spell power based heals until epics. A henshin mystic who would benefit most from more spell power for their abilities is not likely to be in water stance as they tend to be ki starved and would rather be in fire for the ki or earth for the defense. So it makes little sense to have spell power there. The reason I first suggested elemental absorption it due to the cap on mrr for cloth users so this is a way to get around that and make something that is more useful to all types of monk players. Now you have a stance that is your go to for when you know you will be fighting in a high magic damage environment and it works the same for strength, dex, and wisdom based monks.

I've made my case now sell me on why spell power would be better than elemental absorption.

[Grailhawk]

I'm not 100% against universal spell power in ocean stance but just to give you so opposing thought I would rather see something that works better for pure monks not casters and people who use the arcane archer tree. (You're falling into the same trap the devs did with the arcane archer tree only on a smaller scale. You're building for something that is not inherent to the primary class the tree is meant for. Imagine how much better the aa tree would have been if there was ranged power in it and if the active attacks and imbues had scaled with ranged power.) Back on topic, a monk goes into water stance to increase dodge, saves, and passive ki generation. Giving spell power does not fit this theme. Yes slightly stronger heals for shintaos but how does this help a dark path monk who has no spell power based heals until epics. A henshin mystic who would benefit most from more spell power for their abilities is not likely to be in water stance as they tend to be ki starved and would rather be in fire for the ki or earth for the defense. So it makes little sense to have spell power there. The reason I first suggested elemental absorption it due to the cap on mrr for cloth users so this is a way to get around that and make something that is more useful to all types of monk players. Now you have a stance that is your go to for when you know you will be fighting in a high magic damage environment and it works the same for strength, dex, and wisdom based monks.

I've made my case now sell me on why spell power would be better than elemental absorption.

Just to be clear I'm not trying to sell you on this idea, I'm not even trying to sell the dev's on this idea I'm just putting it out there so that maybe a dev sees it and likes and uses it.

I do not feel that Arcane Archer failed because of the elemental damage; actually I don't feel it failed at all pure level 20 Ranger Arcane Archers are for the first ever actually not a bad option, and for the people who want a more martial 20 Ranger Archer there is the Stalker option which is just as good if not better.

You already seem to understand my logic for spell power in Ocean stance: it boots healing, it boots General Finishers (burning hands fire finisher is what I'm thinking about here if this isn't boost by fire spell power then I think it should be), Henshin Finishers, and opens interesting multi-classing options.

As for elemental absorption I'm not 100% against it but I like the spell power idea better and don't really thing monks who have built in Improved evasion (an automatic 50% absorption) need any more built in absorption.

[DethTrip]

Acrobat, mechanic, harper, deepwood stalker, ninja spy, swashbuckler, elf, PDK and dwarf enhancements all allow for using a different attribute related to the class/race for attack and damage with specific weapons. Druids can use flame blade and then use wisdom for attack and damage. When I think of a monk, I think of this wise old man that strikes enemies with pinpoint precision in the right spots with perfect timing and form for maximum damage. He uses his wisdom. So I believe that they need to add an enhancement that allows monks to use their wisdom for attack and damage. Even if it were unarmed only and a higher up core enhancement it would be a huge improvement to the class. It makes sense to me. People might actually want to play unarmed monks again.

[Grailhawk]

Acrobat, mechanic, harper, deepwood stalker, ninja spy, swashbuckler, elf, PDK and dwarf enhancements all allow for using a different attribute related to the class/race for attack and damage with specific weapons. Druids can use flame blade and then use wisdom for attack and damage. When I think of a monk, I think of this wise old man that strikes enemies with pinpoint precision in the right spots with perfect timing and form for maximum damage. He uses his wisdom. So I believe that they need to add an enhancement that allows monks to use their wisdom for attack and damage. Even if it were unarmed only and a higher up core enhancement it would be a huge improvement to the class. It makes sense to me. People might actually want to play unarmed monks again.

I thought about this, what I thought would be cooler then just letting them use Wisdom for damage and attack would be giving them something like (not quite though no half mod) Know the Angles/Divine Might that adds there Wisdom mod to damage and hit but felt it better for Henshin.

[Saekee]

I thought about this, what I thought would be cooler then just letting them use Wisdom for damage and attack would be giving them something like (not quite though no half mod) Know the Angles/Divine Might that adds there Wisdom mod to damage and hit but felt it better for Henshin.

I think that is a great idea.

I imagine a monk as a fanatical priest-type, not wise old man...

[Grailhawk]

I think that is a great idea.

I imagine a monk as a fanatical priest-type, not wise old man...

Just to be clear I was thinking of it as a Tier 5 for Henshin.

<no clue for a name>: Passive you add your wisdom modifier to damage and attack rolls.

[Saekee]

instead of the core allowing two stances at once (which feels wrong), I would do something like, 'Upon changing stances, the effects of the former stance linger for 15 seconds.'

This could result in some cool stuff in combimation with action boosts.

[Grailhawk]

instead of the core allowing two stances at once (which feels wrong), I would do something like, 'Upon changing stances, the effects of the former stance linger for 15 seconds.'

This could result in some cool stuff in combimation with action boosts.

IMO that's not really a good enough to be a capstone (its not a bad idea though), and if you did that you would need to add a good deal of more power then I have to keep the class up to snuff.

[Saekee]

was just thinking about shintao and monks in general.
I think monks should get a 'guarding bond' like barbs that is based on ki. So as your ki builds, you get boosts related to the tree. Have in level 12 core of each tree this effect:
Shintao--boosts PRR based on ki bar
Henshin--boosts MRR based on ki bar
Ninja--boosts Dodge based on ki bar

Not sure of exact amount but ki varies a lot in gameplay. Could be an interesting incentive for a monk in terms of gear, ki use etc.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

you want to give monks 40 melee power? and buff whatever stance they were already using? 40? 40? on a class that already attacks the fastest and gets doublestrike to offhand? i dont think so.

and monks would get +45 prr in earth stance now? thats more than defensive stance by a pretty large amount. i dont think more prr should always be the answer for defense the way crit profile/mp is for offense. every class just becomes the same and just gets shuffled around on the power curve depending mostly on when it was released.

i really dont like the idea of monks get stupid amounts of prr, that was the whole point of the armor up update....to make tankier melee classes actually feel and be tankier. id much rather see monks get heavily rewarded for building dodge and getting lots of it for free, with perhaps multiple options for temporary buffs raising their dodge even higher. more active gameplay is good. perhaps those options could be tied to some of the finishers, because monks doing monkey things.

[Holymunchkin]

awesome ideas grail