Eldritch Knight help

[invicto15]

Hey all this is my first post ever here, I had an idea and wanted to ask advice and help on what I could change on it to make it work better so the idea is for an PDK eldritch knight, the idea behind him is to CC through enchantment spells then melee down the mobs, going PDK for CKT so that I can apply CHA to dmg I don't have a character planner so going to end up typing it all.

PDK Sorc 18/ Pally 2
36 pt buid 2h Great sword weapon of choice
STR 12-14
DEx 12-14
Con 14-16
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 18
+7 tome across the board

Feats
Lvl 1 PA
Human Cleave
Lvl 3 Enchant focus
Lvl 6 Greater focus
Lvl 9 Greater Cleave
Lvl 12 extend
Lvl 15 imp crit
lvl 18 heighten
epic feats I don't have any in mind other than Overwhelming crit and PTWF since I heard that the doublestrike bonus applies to 2h weaps
(advice on what to take here appreciated)

Skilss max UMD, Concentration, Spell craft (since it increases force spell power) extra skill points on whatever

Epic Destiny will be LD twists I have not thought about.

Spell choices would basically be buffs and enchantments mainly aiming at Otto's Sphere and Hold Mass

I would like to be able to do EE content not sure if trying to get enchant dc high enough to work will hurt dps much or if it's even attainable just with the focus feats.

not sure if I should just forget about enchant and go with a sorc 16/fighter2/pally2 and just focus all on melee feats + extends and focus spells on buffs and utility this way I could even go with the SWF line and may be throw on a shield.

[Grailhawk]

Enchantment + Melee DPS screams Bard to me not EK.

Swashbuckling + Spellsinger 15/3/2 Bard/Fighter/Rogue PDK

Tier 5 Spellsinger for mass hold, PDK for Cha to damage and hit (or could use the ehn in Swashbuckler if you don't want to limit your weapon choice to shortswords) + Swashbuckling, skirmisher, defender stance and Evasion. Thats one option you can probably also do a full 20 bard for this and come out good.

[invicto15]

Thanks Grail how would you suggest I play an EK

[Grailhawk]

... the idea behind him is to CC through enchantment spells then melee down the mobs, going PDK for CKT so that I can apply CHA to dmg

PDK Sorc 18/ Pally 2

1. The Eldritch Knight tree in Sroc and Wizard sucks.
2. Sounds like what you really want is a CC caster with a melee option.
   
   • Wizard will do this better then sorc because it has better option for DC casting
   • Wizard also has more feats making it easier to get both the caster and melee feat you want.
   • Harper is a better tree for mixing caster + melee then Eldrtich Knight which opens up Int to damage and Hit
   • I think Wizard will fit your desires better.
3. Sorcerer is not really the right base class for a DC caster.
   
   • Sorcerer have very little ways to bump there DC casting unlike Bards or Wizard.
   • A Bard has much better Melee options then a Sorcerer
   • A Wizard has much better DC options then a Sorcerer
   • Sorcerers have good ranged Spell DPS.

If you are willing to give up Sorcerer there are builds that can do want you are conceptually looking to do CC + Melee DPS, but as a sorcerer there are not enough feats, not enough +DC, and not enough +Melee DPS in the trees to even go there.

Thanks Grail how would you suggest I play an EK

I wouldn't suggest any one every play a EK the tree is just that bad, anything over 12 AP (Tier 3 +1 stat) spent in that tree is a wast.

[invicto15]

Alright thanks a lot I think I will be dropping the EK idea and just play boom caster

[Saekee]

btw invicto welcome to the forums!

[unbongwah]

Wiz-based EK / PM builds:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ar-Infiltrator
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-of-Velsharoon

Haven't been updated in a while, so I dunno if they could be considered endgame-relevant anymore, but the basic premise is still sound. Main problem is still EK is a weak melee PrE. For something with better melee DPS, I continue to believe that wiz / bard (Swashbuckler) is the least bad option, at least if you have Harper.

[Grailhawk]

btw invicto welcome to the forums!

Come on man, that not exactly fair. I did try and help him get the concept of what he wants.

You think there is a Sorcerer EK build that can work, as enchant + melee?

[Kadrios]

Dropping Paladin and taking at least 3 levels of bard (for swashbuckling stance, tier 3 enhancements in spellsinger and swashie and the first two cores in spellsinger) would be where I'd go if I was set on a melee sorc build with some CC ability.

I ran a swashbuckler sorc on my first life (I'll admit, other than buffs, spellcasting - particularly DC casting - was an afterthought). I ended up going to tier 5 in harper, and only grabbing around 12AP in EK.


If you're set on Paladin, I would suggest picking up some more paladin levels in order to get some more DPS from KotC, and the sacred defender stance.

Unfortunately, the other posters are right, by itself, EK is not a great melee tree. However, that doesn't mean the basic concept (melee sorc with some enchantment capability) isn't doable, it will just require more work.

[unbongwah]

I ended up going to tier 5 in harper, and only grabbing around 12AP in harper.

Ummm, did you mean you only put 12 APs into Swashbuckler, or did you find an exploit for reaching T5 for only 12 APs instead of 30+? "This one simple trick saved me 20 APs!"

[Kadrios]

thanks for catching that Ungbongwah, I entirely meant to type EK, but wasn't exactly paying attention.

[Ghwyn]

Go fighter for the extra feats. 14 sorc/6 ftr works well, but I did a life as 16 sorc. Problem with going fleshy is you miss out on the self repairs. I've never had much luck with casting and melee; its best to do one or the other. EK as a tree works if you take advantage of it, but some try to make it something its not. My suggestion is go melee, wf or bf, and use spells for self repair and buffs.

[Grailhawk]

Go fighter for the extra feats. 14 sorc/6 ftr works well, but I did a life as 16 sorc. Problem with going fleshy is you miss out on the self repairs. I've never had much luck with casting and melee; its best to do one or the other. EK as a tree works if you take advantage of it, but some try to make it something its not. My suggestion is go melee, wf or bf, and use spells for self repair and buffs.

In today's game do you honestly think that's even a good build?

16/4 will get you the feat you need and enough to actually say you have all the important once (I think) but:

1. you have lost 4 caster levels really hurting you spell DPS and lost some of the big damage spells,
2. you are on sorc who are what a good 4+ DC's behind wizard making your CC questionable,
3. you don't have the crit profile, or melee power, or DS/Offhand proc rate that a real melee has.

A few years ago right at U19 that build was probably ok not quite bad not quite good but close enough that you could make a go at it but with the crit profile proliferation that has gone on in the last few years that build is very far behind real melees, and has given up to much of its caster side IMO. Am I wrong?

[Kadrios]

I wonder whether (assuming enchantment CC in upper level EE content was given up) whether something like a Sorc 11/Warlock 6/Bard 3 would work relatively well as an arcane melee. I'd imagine you could still get a reasonable EH/lower level EE DC with the help of the bard levels (and Scion of the Feywild), and the melee DPS and survivability should be reasonable. It would need to run in DC for full bab however (since Tenser's wouldn't be an option due to sorc level and penalty to DCs), but that wouldn't be a bad thing all told.

Might take a look and see if I can throw something reasonable together

[Ghwyn]

In today's game do you honestly think that's even a good build?

16/4 will get you the feat you need and enough to actually say you have all the important once (I think) but:

1. you have lost 4 caster levels really hurting you spell DPS and lost some of the big damage spells,
2. you are on sorc who are what a good 4+ DC's behind wizard making your CC questionable,
3. you don't have the crit profile, or melee power, or DS/Offhand proc rate that a real melee has.

A few years ago right at U19 that build was probably ok not quite bad not quite good but close enough that you could make a go at it but with the crit profile proliferation that has gone on in the last few years that build is very far behind real melees, and has given up to much of its caster side IMO. Am I wrong?

Yes, it is still a good build. You missed the part where I said go melee. That means not dps casting. And it means taking dps feats. I offered this as an option, as I don't think a caster and melee are viable together, but melee in EK is. This build is fun to play (and a good way to do sorc lives as melee if you don't like casters) and is what led me to make the gwhyn build in my sig.

[Grailhawk]

I wonder whether (assuming enchantment CC in upper level EE content was given up) whether something like a Sorc 11/Warlock 6/Bard 3 would work relatively well as an arcane melee. I'd imagine you could still get a reasonable EH/lower level EE DC with the help of the bard levels (and Scion of the Feywild), and the melee DPS and survivability should be reasonable. It would need to run in DC for full bab however (since Tenser's wouldn't be an option due to sorc level and penalty to DCs), but that wouldn't be a bad thing all told.

Might take a look and see if I can throw something reasonable together

Why Warlock?

Yes, it is still a good build. You missed the part where I said go melee. That means not dps casting. And it means taking dps feats. I offered this as an option, as I don't think a caster and melee are viable together, but melee in EK is. This build is fun to play (and a good way to do sorc lives as melee if you don't like casters) and is what led me to make the gwhyn build in my sig.

I didn't miss the "go melee" I said that I don't think the build you presented can active the Critical Power, Melee Power, or Doublestrike need to be a good melee build.

• If its critical profile isn't at least 16-18/x4 19-20/x5 or a 14-18/x3 19-20/x6
• If its full blitzing Melee power isn't at least 140 or its not LD Melee Power isn't at least 70
• If it doesn't have at least 50% doublestrike
• And if it doesn't have at least a +60 (SWF, TWF, & S&B) or +80 (THF) damage mod

I just don't think its a melee good build. The build in your sig doesn't brake down these stats can it hit those benchmarks?

[Holymunchkin]

hey OP

I think a bard would suite the idea you are talking about best.
Go pdk
use shortswords
max CHA
16 levels of bard gives you level 6 spells, so...

16 bard / 2 fighter / 2 rogue

or if you want fighter stance and don't need evasion:

16 bard / 4 fighter

You could also go pure 20 bard but that would require an LR +1 and the feats get tighter

go Divine crusader with 6 ranks of cha
pick up the freezing ability from warchanter
pick up an enchantment focus feat and twist +3 to your DCs from magister

I've seen a pure swashbuckler use effective Otto's dance balls in stormhorns---

it can be done!

[Holymunchkin]

if you have your heart set on an EK, I would reccomend 15 wizard / 5 pally bladeforged
go tier 5 KotC, pick up sacred stance
take low hanging fruit from EK

you'll get power word stun, otto's irresistable.
these have no save and are nice abilities.

dual reconstruct is still great, and haste/displacement/GH for nothing are perks.

the dps WILL BE BEHIND other toons
since...
...you do not have bonuses to critical threat and multiplier

however you will be unkillable

good luck!

[Grailhawk]

hey OP

I think a bard would suite the idea you are talking about best.
Go pdk
use shortswords
max CHA
16 levels of bard gives you level 6 spells, so...

16 bard / 2 fighter / 2 rogue

or if you want fighter stance and don't need evasion:

16 bard / 4 fighter

You could also go pure 20 bard but that would require an LR +1 and the feats get tighter

go Divine crusader with 6 ranks of cha
pick up the freezing ability from warchanter
pick up an enchantment focus feat and twist +3 to your DCs from magister

I've seen a pure swashbuckler use effective Otto's dance balls in stormhorns---

it can be done!

Did you read post 2-4 or just the OP?

[invicto15]

Thanks Saekee for the welcome, and thanks everyone for elaborating on builds and ideas l, that's exactly what I was looking for specifically was wondering if end game the path I was thinking of taking was viable. Basically no which I am perfectly fine with I'm open to trying new builds and making things work when they seemed like they can't, but for this one I figured I ask the vets for advice so thanks all for the help.