Barbarian-Warlock

[-Avalon-]

Not necessarily saying this is a good idea, but Shining Through (awesome ability) has a cool down of 30 seconds, Brilliance provides a buffer (albeit a small one), and there ARE several instances where the ST gets devoured quickly through burst damage (which is cool)... But, if a warlock had Blood Tribute as well... Would that work, be helpful, opinions?

[cru121]

Warlocks actually already have Blood Tribute
http://ddowiki.com/page/Tainted_Scho...cements#Stanch

[-Avalon-]

Warlocks actually already have Blood Tribute
http://ddowiki.com/page/Tainted_Scho...cements#Stanch

No, not the same... Depravity must be built up, and fastest to get 7 is 10.5 seconds... I start combat with my constitution score. Also, fully bought, BT costs 4 invested AP, Stanch costs 11... Big difference. If already investing in TS tree, then I could see it, but anyone else, or anyone not focused on TS tree... For instance, only getting to Utter dark is 7 AP, so 4 more (same price as BT), will buy stanch, however, if you stop at that point to keep things equal in cost, then depravity is built at 4.5 seconds per pt, and would need 31.5 seconds, effectively making it worthless in this context as it goes beyond the 30 second CD of ST. BT has only a 3 second CD, so, 'could' be used 10 times in 30 seconds... Probably would NOT want to go that extreme though lol

[unbongwah]

Blood Tribute is tier-2; so it would cost 8 APs to max out.

If we're talking ES builds, dropping to war 18 / barb 2 means giving up the +20% HPs from ES capstone. I'd guesstimate that's worth about 150 to 200 HPs all by itself on any fully geared warlock build.

It's an interesting idea, but in practice it seems to me like the temp HPs would be of marginal utility relative to the stacking CON penalty and lost caster DPS. YMMV, ofc.

[-Avalon-]

Blood Tribute is tier-2; so it would cost 8 APs to max out.

If we're talking ES builds, dropping to war 18 / barb 2 means giving up the +20% HPs from ES capstone. I'd guesstimate that's worth about 150 to 200 HPs all by itself on any fully geared warlock build.

It's an interesting idea, but in practice it seems to me like the temp HPs would be of marginal utility relative to the stacking CON penalty and lost caster DPS. YMMV, ofc.

Very right, BT is T2! I missed that, was a bit interrupted during that post. My thinking wasn't on a 20 warlock, going to 18/2, but, rather a 12/6/2 or something... I really hate being a 'purist' in D&D, I have to be that way in almost every other game, Lol, I come to D&D to get creative and all that.

[Discpsycho]

If you only take up to Stanch, you're looking at a gain of 1 Depravity per 4.5 seconds. That's an average of 31.5 seconds per Stanch, but your maximum Depravity is 30, so you could theoretically pop it 4 times in a row every few minutes (or 5 times in ~ 30s).

Blood Tribute grants 150 temp HP + 25 per epic level, for a total of 400 at level 30, but at the cost of 1 Con. Stanch grants +50% temp HP at the cost of 3% max health. My averagely-geared ES Warlock 20 had about 1000 health before ST at level 30, so Stanch gives 100 more HP than BT.

Personally, I would use Stanch or BT to complement ST. I'm not the zergiest of players, so I would tend to use Stanch/BT either when ST was on cooldown or when I knew a big hit was coming (eg. DOJ). Each Stanch would decrease my health by ~30, and each BT would decrease my health by 15 and my ST's temp HP by 12. Stanch gives and uses slightly more HP than BT, and the latter brings down my Fort save by .5. There's not much difference between these abilities on my character, and as gear improved, Stanch would both drain and grant more hit points. In my book, these abilities are about equal, though BT might be slightly more convenient because of the frequency with which you can use it. Since they're about equal, I'd be more worried about the class split. 2 levels in Barbarian loses me the level 20 ES core (20% hp, full BAB, 20 Light SP, 10 universal SP, 2 Con, 2 Cha, 10 MP and RP), putting Stanch and BT at roughly equal Temp HP values (1k health - 20% =~800 health. Stanch's 50% * 800 = 400 temp HP, which is the same as BT at level 30) and therefore making BT more valuable.


Since you asked about viability, I'm going to pretend I'm unbongwah and make a build around this!

Since you're using ES T5 and taking at least 5 levels of Warlock, you can't get cores 5 or 6 in any Barbarian tree. As long as you're focusing this much on Temp HP, you may as well pick up I Like Pain (T2) from Ravager, which gives 150 Temp HP that scales 100% with melee power. You'll also have Brilliance from ES T4, which gives 2*Con temp hp.
- ES AP minimum: 32 for Shining Through. Brilliance would be easy to pick up along the way. Displacement SLA adds 2, Spirit Blast adds 3, Beacon probably isn't worth your time. 32-37 points total, depending on build.
- BT AP minimum: 8. You could pick up the sprint boost or extra AB for up to 3 points each, but I personally wouldn't bother.

These next two aren't mandatory - it depends on the build flavor.
- Stanch AP minimum (optional): 11. Since the majority of your damage isn't from blasting, I wouldn't bother with the pact damage boost.
- I Like Pain AP minimum (optional): 8. I don't recommend taking anything else in that tier (or higher) because AP are going to be tight as it is. I'd vote for this over Stanch if you can get enough PRR.

At this point, I see two directions this could go: health-stacking TWF for Spiritual Retribution's bonus damage, or super-tanky S&B. IMO, SWF + orb would be the worst of both worlds.

Super-tanky S&B:
If you're using ES T5, I don't see a lot of point in taking more Barb levels. Since Barbarian requires you to be chaotic, Paladin is out, so Fighter is probably your best bet. 3-6 levels would probably be your best bet, depending on what exactly you want to get out of Stalwart Defender. I don't see feats being a huge problem - SM, ISM, Empower, Maximize, Quicken, PA, Shield Deflection, IC and 1-4 more depending on Fighter levels and your race. Pretty much any of these builds could go int-based with KTA, which would also make Dire Charge a tempting choice.
- 15 Warlock / 3 Fighter / 2 Barbarian: Gives you a pact ability, which probably isn't worthwhile, but better blast damage. Hurl Through Hell is great but it wouldn't have a good DC, so it would be a 6-second paralysis. SD gives you +20% HP for 13 AP, leaving you 3-27 points for other things. 3 is enough for Cormyrean Knight Training and not much else. 8 is enough to pick up the Stunning Shield from Vanguard or some low-grade Kensei stuff. 27 could get you deep into Kensei or TYWA, if you want to be a Dwarf and stack Con.
- 14 Warlock / 4 Fighter / 2 Barbarian: SD gives an additional +6 Con. On any other build I wouldn't bother, but that means 90 more base health (108 with SD's 20% HP boost), 72 temp HP from ST and 12 from Brilliance. I would forgo Stanch with this build to free up 11 more AP, which is the exact increase you'd need for SD. This would leave you with up to 8 points, though it's more like 3 because of the Displacement SLA and Spirit Burst.
- 12 Warlock / 6 Fighter / 2 Barbarian: I wouldn't necessarily recommend this split. The extra fighter levels get you a feat and access to the vorpal shield knockdown from SD core #3, but you miss out on some extra Warlock SP and blast damage. You could sink a few points into Vanguard, but that wouldn't help your DPS all that much.

TWF:
Once again, ES T5 and Barbarian 2 restrict things. Monk and Paladin are out due to the Barbarian alignment prereq. TWF Rogues are usually Assassins, which require T5, as do TWF Warchanter Bards. We could do a simple 15 Barbarian / 5 Warlock split, but without Barbarian T5 or Cores 5/6, I doubt the damage would be particularly impressive. Kensai is underpowered and we'd probably end up doing more damage with the aura pulses and spirit blasts. Cleric, Sorc and Wizard have melee enhancement lines but these are pretty underwhelming without T5's. In my mind, this leaves three viable options: 18/2 Warlock/Barbarian, Ranger, and Druid.
- 18/2 Warlock/Barbarian: This would be doable. Celestial Spirit makes your EB more powerful and your aura tick more often. Since you've got so many Warlock levels, you'd want a few good spellpower items. You'd probably want to consider going Divine Crusader - Consecration for more AOE damage/heals with your good spell power, Castigation's damage/healing, Zeal for bosses, and the full BAB. A Primal Avatar tree build would do ok, but I doubt it would be as impressive as some other ones out there.
- Ranger: Your attacks would probably be better than your Aura, so I'd be inclined to go with 12 levels in Ranger for GTWF. With 32 points in ES and 8 in Ravager, you're looking at 40 points maximum, which means you'd have to pick between Tempest and DWS. Either way, you'd have Evasion and could use Dex for damage, which makes me think a Dex/Con build would work ok. DWS would give you Killer (20% DS), slightly better HP/PRR, and +1 to Crit range. Tempest gives Storm Tempest, a couple offensive CDs and +1 to Crit Multiplier. Since I haven't played a Ranger since their pass, I can't definitively answer this one. Since feats would be the same, you could switch between them based on your preference.
- Druid: You wouldn't be able to run a standard SWF/TWF build because you'd be feat-starved from the lack of Fighter levels. You'd be totally fine AP-wise, as Fatal Harrier would only need 13 points, so you might consider Displacement or some of the other optional ones I listed before. You'd need at least 8 levels of druid for Winter Wolf, or 9 for Natural Fighting. Required heroic feats would include PA, Empower, Maximize, Quicken and IC, leaving you 3 for combat style (SWF, TWF or NF) if you went Human. On the surface, 9 Druid / 9 Warlock / 2 Barbarian seems like a HTR grind build, and probably wouldn't do enough damage in epic levels. ED-wise you could run LD for the extra MP (which would boost your I Like Pain procs as well), DC for the passive damage/heals, or Primal Avatar for a tree build.

My two cents:
18/2 Warlock/Barbarian and the 12/6/2 Ranger build would be pretty equal in damage and survival, so I'd call those the best options for tanky dps. I would personally pick the 14/4/2 Lock/Fighter/Barb build because I'd rather have the passive +6 Con than both Staunch and BT.

Thanks for reading, and sorry for the wall of text

Edit: Looks like the Supreme Cleavage build Tilomere linked is the best bet. Feel free to ignore my theorycrafting =)

[Tilomere]

Lol, I come to D&D to get creative and all that.

Have you seen Supreme Cleavage? It can be run as a barb, fighter, or warlock past life and is one of the most creative builds in the game.

If you don't have a twinblade an Axe of Famine does equally well to better in many cases, but it doesn't look as cool.