Please segregate martial and arcane pre/suffixes on random loot

[Frogger1234]

I put a lot of this stuff (weapons, clothing, jewelry) with odd mixes of properties on the AH and it sells, so someone (many someones) must find value in it. Armor is what sells poorly.
I don't expect most randomly generated loot to be useful to me or better than what I already have.

[HAL]

His stable is actually wide enough that wouldn't be a bad idea would help new players not suck, because they would wouldn't be able to make bad choices.

You're assuming that his "stable" includes ALL the good choices and that no build of his will ever become a "bad" choice over time. Bad assumptions.

Oh, and not signed. Ultimately loot that isn't useful at all has to be part of lootgen or we'll all quickly have what we want and be back to vendoring everything or leaving it in the chest.

[Basura_Grande]

If you were calling for a reduction in caster affixes on random loot, I would agree with you.
If you were calling for a reduction in hybrid mix affixes I would agree with you.

What's it feel like to be right for a change?

The worthless combo that makes no sense should be the exception and not the rule.

[Basura_Grande]

I actually like the way it works now it helps make good items more valuable since there less likely to show up.

You'd still have trade going, the more commin +11 of +11 would be cheap with the +14 of +14 going for the premium prices.

[Basura_Grande]

You're assuming that his "stable" includes ALL the good choices and that no build of his will ever become a "bad" choice over time. Bad assumptions.

All things considered, it's a safe assumption

[karatemack]

This isn't named raid loot. I'm ok with some random loot gen being good for nothing but the vendor. As others have mentioned, "one man's vendor trash is another man's treasure". I have found a good mix between items I would never use and items to pass to newer toons. Leave it be.

[IronClan]

Build choices shouldn't be part of the "game" in the way you are seam to be implying they should be. Bad choices when building just leads to player frustration this isn't good in any way.

Choices like running in to kill 3 mobs or pulling them 1 at a time those are the kinds of choices that can be good and bad.

Choosing to make a S&B Ranger shouldn't be inherently a bad choice, like it was for years. Yes that's an extreme example but players should be able to play the class they want how they want with the enhancements they want with out sucking or even being sub-optimal.

That said this is just you and me going back to are major disagreement I think the background math should be balanced you don't nothing new here.

Custom builds are one of the only things people who stick with DDO all seem to agree are the games strong suit. You can find many (almost all) MMO's that offer shallow characterization and the "10000 red sparkle damage OR 10000 blue sparkle damage" so called choices that you desire... why are you trying to make DDO into just another boring shallow illusory choice laden MMO? Those exist in plentiful numbers already. You can find the gameplay you describe in a FPS shooter with no character levels or progression what so ever... (and PERFECT BALANCE) You appear to be playing the wrong game. More importantly, you are constantly lobbying and with some unfortunate success for DDO to be a worse game. D&D was never balanced around characters... it was a smash hit, even at points a "phenomenon" for over 40 years, almost the entirety of which the characters were a complete MESS in terms of relative balance, but yet the game not only was BETTER because of it, it thrived and became a cultural icon! Until... Until what? Until they "balanced" and streamlined classes in the reviled and hated 4ed. Your ideas are so diametrically opposite how D&D works that I'm continually amazed that you play this game. The mathematically pleasing symetrical and bland illusory choice filled game you want already exists in the hundreds.

Your crusade for mathematical balance is part of the reason why almost all the classes have devolved into all being vanilla DPS. While I'm sure this pleases the side of you that is desperately seeking symmetrical math in DDO, it has worsened the game. DDO is shallower, healers are pointless, no one cares about buffs, no one needs to rely on anyone else, everyone is in a race to see if they can lead the kill count. Instead of the tactics and choices you say you want, we have moved more and more towards everyone facerolling without thought. Which is precisely what your ideas move the game towards. When everyone is the same, and no bad choices are possible everyone's tactics work, we all devolve to the mean, the lowest common denominator steamrolls the hardest content like a pack of herd animals.

[Gauthaag]

If u find most of martial weapons could be weapon of choice only for rather niche build, something is pretty wrong here.

[Gauthaag]

not speaking about fact that about 75 percent of all weapons I got in chests are dwarven axes

[UurlockYgmeov]

No.

otherwise every piece of random loot will be 2x as good as it it now. Getting the Gods to align and Tymora to smile favorably on you for everything to align just right is an integral part of the loot lottery. There must be junk and more junk with even more junk for that one diamond in the rough to be that much more special.

If you want perfect loot, go craft it after paying your dues away with the grindmonkey.

[Gauthaag]

No.

otherwise every piece of random loot will be 2x as good as it it now. Getting the Gods to align and Tymora to smile favorably on you for everything to align just right is an integral part of the loot lottery. There must be junk and more junk with even more junk for that one diamond in the rough to be that much more special.

If you want perfect loot, go craft it after paying your dues away with the grindmonkey.

go back to your crafter thread - even better after moving it to suggestion subsection, where it belongs

[Grailhawk]

Custom builds are one of the only things people who stick with DDO all seem to agree are the games strong suit. You can find many (almost all) MMO's that offer shallow characterization and the "10000 red sparkle damage OR 10000 blue sparkle damage" so called choices that you desire... why are you trying to make DDO into just another boring shallow illusory choice laden MMO? Those exist in plentiful numbers already. You can find the gameplay you describe in a FPS shooter with no character levels or progression what so ever... (and PERFECT BALANCE) You appear to be playing the wrong game. More importantly, you are constantly lobbying and with some unfortunate success for DDO to be a worse game. D&D was never balanced around characters... it was a smash hit, even at points a "phenomenon" for over 40 years, almost the entirety of which the characters were a complete MESS in terms of relative balance, but yet the game not only was BETTER because of it, it thrived and became a cultural icon! Until... Until what? Until they "balanced" and streamlined classes in the reviled and hated 4ed. Your ideas are so diametrically opposite how D&D works that I'm continually amazed that you play this game. The mathematically pleasing symetrical and bland illusory choice filled game you want already exists in the hundreds.

Your crusade for mathematical balance is part of the reason why almost all the classes have devolved into all being vanilla DPS. While I'm sure this pleases the side of you that is desperately seeking symmetrical math in DDO, it has worsened the game. DDO is shallower, healers are pointless, no one cares about buffs, no one needs to rely on anyone else, everyone is in a race to see if they can lead the kill count. Instead of the tactics and choices you say you want, we have moved more and more towards everyone facerolling without thought. Which is precisely what your ideas move the game towards. When everyone is the same, and no bad choices are possible everyone's tactics work, we all devolve to the mean, the lowest common denominator steamrolls the hardest content like a pack of herd animals.

We have already gone over this back and forth a few times, no point in doing point counter point all over again.

The game started going down hill when they started buffing classes excessively Swashbuckler and Paladin changes that pushed the classes way passed there proper power level, go back look at what I was posting when they were doing that I was saying they pushed the power of those two class way past where they needed to be. You have said in the past you feel they listen to you on those classes that was there mistake. If they had listen to me things would be a lot different.

Your issue with me is that I'm actually looking for balance, you just want your pet classes to be the best.

[IronClan]

Necromancy of Accuracy item...

New player, Pale Master in Wraith form with Harper INT to hit (3ap's) trying to get finger to land (Multiclassed or pre Lich form) would gobble that item up. Couple it with a Random Keen weapon (crits in wraith form drop con) with Nullification and Insightful Nullification and his aura heals for a lot more.

Bet that build would be fun, not saying it's end game worthy or anything but I am saying someone could have fun with it and not embarrass themselves in the kill count until they got better gear or changed their minds about multiclassing a DC PM...

The discovery process with new players especially in a game with so much build variety is a large part of the fun. Speaking from experience.

[Basura_Grande]

This isn't named raid loot. I'm ok with some random loot gen being good for nothing but the vendor. As others have mentioned, "one man's vendor trash is another man's treasure". I have found a good mix between items I would never use and items to pass to newer toons. Leave it be.

I'm okay with SOME of the loot being worth cash only also, but should 99% of the chest loot be garbage?

And I don't think I'm exaggerating at 99%.

[Basura_Grande]

Your issue with me is that I'm actually looking for balance, you just want your pet classes to be the best.

This is true, and is it ironic at that that our favorite class is now arguably the best?

[Grailhawk]

This is true, and is it ironic at that that our favorite class is now arguably the best?

True, and I can quote where I was saying they may have added to much to the class before we know they added the crit multiplier, because the math was saying it was too much.

[Basura_Grande]

Necromancy of Accuracy item...

New player, Pale Master in Wraith form with Harper INT to hit (3ap's) trying to get finger to land (Multiclassed or pre Lich form) would gobble that item up. Couple it with a Random Keen weapon (crits in wraith form drop con) with Nullification and Insightful Nullification and his aura heals for a lot more.

Bet that build would be fun, not saying it's end game worthy or anything but I am saying someone could have fun with it and not embarrass themselves in the kill count until they got better gear or changed their minds about multiclassing a DC PM...

The discovery process with new players especially in a game with so much build variety is a large part of the fun. Speaking from experience.

And far more of the loot should serve this ridiculously bad fringe type of builds instead of what 99% of people play?

I don't believe you for a second.

[IronClan]

We have already gone over this back and forth a few times, no point in doing point counter point all over again.

The game started going down hill when they started buffing classes excessively Swashbuckler and Paladin changes that pushed the classes way passed there proper power level, go back look at what I was posting when they were doing that I was saying they pushed the power of those two class way past where they needed to be. You have said in the past you feel they listen to you on those classes that was there mistake. If they had listen to me things would be a lot different.

Your issue with me is that I'm actually looking for balance, you just want your pet classes to be the best.

Says the guy who's pet class is at the top of the meta? You're guessing trying to attribute an agenda to me to hand wave points you have nothing for. I also suspect you're projecting your own sensibilities onto me.

As for what they listened to me about none of it was mathematical suggestions that raised DPS significantly almost everything I suggested were alternate ways to do things, or abilities that are fun to use or game mechanics DDO doesn't incorporate. I wont go into specifics (mostly because the ideas could easily have had parallels to existing developer ideas, so it would be unfair for me to claim credit) but I may have made suggestions that lead to Coup, T5 Vanguard Shield rush, Harper INT to hit/KtA/Dmg, Spellsinger SLA's most of these were suggestions in an unrelated class tree proposal that got a lot of positive feedback from other PC members. None of them are egregious DPS adders.

I argued against adding alacrity. Melee power; I felt it was inelegant and if they really felt they needed melee damage to scale up more than it was; they could have done it via itemization, I proposed such a way, they went with straight DPS scaling instead of trade offs and choices. That said when they went ahead with it I adapted like everyone else. Being on the PC didn't give us access to their white boards or meetings, none of us could have known they were buffing without an end destination nor a plan to scale mobs to the new power level.

I argued against adding MP to TWF feats, and pointed out that TWF was already the best single target DPS. I used a Grailhawk chrunchy bit example BTW. One that you waffled on later and refused to admit TWF was good enough, you kept waffling until the Ranger pass for some reason... I wonder why... Couldn't have anything to do with buffing a pet class could it?

I hated the Barb capstone that not only kills barb multiclasses but adds big huge absurd chunks of damage in the space of one level (instead of being spread out as most D&D mechanics work). I hated Heal amp and HP truck loads in Barb cores (making the top DPS melee good at self healing is just as bad as adding too much DPS to the game), and argued to simply allow cocoon a primal ability to be used while raged, and for Epic Silver flame pots (which would have had draw backs that non Barbs wouldn't want). they then could have just made Barbs DPS meet the mark they (surely) had set for the top Melee DPS class. Now that Rangers are top melee DPS with better self heals, better mitigation/dodge/incorp and good AOE, who do we blame?

Me?

Or the person who spent a year pretending his own math was inconclusive so they would buff unnecessarily?

[Grailhawk]

Says the guy who's pet class is at the top of the meta? You're guessing trying to attribute an agenda to me to hand wave points you have nothing for. I also suspect you're projecting your own sensibilities onto me.

As for what they listened to me about none of it was mathematical suggestions that raised DPS significantly almost everything I suggested were alternate ways to do things, or abilities that are fun to use or game mechanics DDO doesn't incorporate. I wont go into specifics (mostly because the ideas could easily have had parallels to existing developer ideas, so it would be unfair for me to claim credit) but I may have made suggestions that lead to Coup, T5 Vanguard Shield rush, Harper INT to hit/KtA/Dmg, Spellsinger SLA's most of these were suggestions in an unrelated class tree proposal that got a lot of positive feedback from other PC members. None of them are egregious DPS adders.

I argued against adding alacrity. Melee power; I felt it was inelegant and if they really felt they needed melee damage to scale up more than it was; they could have done it via itemization, I proposed such a way, they went with straight DPS scaling instead of trade offs and choices. That said when they went ahead with it I adapted like everyone else. Being on the PC didn't give us access to their white boards or meetings, none of us could have known they were buffing without an end destination nor a plan to scale mobs to the new power level.

I argued against adding MP to TWF feats, and pointed out that TWF was already the best single target DPS. I used a Grailhawk chrunchy bit example BTW. One that you waffled on later and refused to admit TWF was good enough, you kept waffling until the Ranger pass for some reason... I wonder why... Couldn't have anything to do with buffing a pet class could it?

I hated the Barb capstone that not only kills barb multiclasses but adds big huge absurd chunks of damage in the space of one level (instead of being spread out as most D&D mechanics work). I hated Heal amp and HP truck loads in Barb cores (making the top DPS melee good at self healing is just as bad as adding too much DPS to the game), and argued to simply allow cocoon a primal ability to be used while raged, and for Epic Silver flame pots (which would have had draw backs that non Barbs wouldn't want). they then could have just made Barbs DPS meet the mark they (surely) had set for the top Melee DPS class. Now that Rangers are top melee DPS with better self heals, better mitigation/dodge/incorp and good AOE, who do we blame?

Me?

Or the person who spent a year pretending his own math was inconclusive so they would buff unnecessarily?

BS. I never said TWF was weaker then other styles and always said that it was on paper stronger, I got in to numerous debates about this until i just got sick of saying it. There is a very long debate with Tilomere if you look it up. Thread title was something or another about glancing blows being the to strong.

As for Barbarians I posted when it was still in the development stage that Blood Strength was better self healing then CSW.

And the minute they added the +1 crit mult and threat to rangers I was saying they went over the top.

Sorry try again.

[IronClan]

And far more of the loot should serve this ridiculously bad fringe type of builds instead of what 99% of people play?

I don't believe you for a second.

Your lead in was that you want any mixture eliminated, I've already said they should adjust the ratios so less caster stuff drops. If your argument wasn't so poorly stated you probably would have gotten almost all agreement...