Devs: Possible Legendary Rewards.

[FranOhmsford]

This was basically an addendum to a long post I made in another thread that may get lost in the shuffle so here is is in it's own thread:

Certain Legendary Rewards {Hard to get ones} should be Past Life benefits so that new players who don't want to work their way through all those lives {Druid, Wizard, Cleric etc.} they don't actually want to play can still get to the same point that the player who chose to do that can.

It should take a similar amount of time/work but it's the ONLY way you're going to be able to get that Triple Completionist End-Game character and that 1st/2nd/3rd Life End-Game character balanced.

The ONLY way you're going to be able to create End-Game content that isn't cheesed by one while being ludicrously difficult for the other - It should be very difficult for BOTH!

Oh and they DON'T STACK WITH EACH OTHER! If you've got both no extra benefit!



Now I'm not saying these should be easy to get!
I'm not saying they should be added to LE HoX or Shroud or TS {Which I consider to be the BASE for future Legendary Content and by no means the MAX!}.

What I'm saying is that as we get enough Legendary Content for people to run and keep running you can add in a Legendary Favour system that allows people to earn an Heroic Past Life at a similar rate to what that player could do if he TRd and kept TRing.
You could also add in the ability for players to gain an Epic Past Life through that Favour too.

Don't do it like with the current favour system where it's just a case of getting to the right number.
Do it as in you use up the Favour you've earned each time you do it and have to earn that again - Say like with Karma and ERs {Put an Heroic Past Life at say 1000 Legendary Favour and an Epic Past Life at say 1500, that way the Player could use his 3k Legendary Favour to get 3 Heroic or 2 Epic Past Lives, then he has to start from zero again.}.

Unlike the current favour system it wouldn't be given on only the first completion of the quest either but on every completion because you want your players playing Legendary Quests over and over again.
Say you give Legendary TS, HoX and Shroud 3/6/9 Favour per Completion and Legendary To Curse the Sky, Creeping Death 1/2/3 Favour per Completion and as you add in more and harder Legendary Quests you up the Favour per completion to fit. {This is so people don't just run the easiest Legendaries to get their Favour - It would be mind numbingly boring!}.

[Kwyjibo]

Certain Legendary Rewards {Hard to get ones} should be Past Life benefits so that new players who don't want to work their way through all those lives {Druid, Wizard, Cleric etc.} they don't actually want to play can still get to the same point that the player who chose to do that can.

Tough nuggets...want the past life, then you need to run the class to get the past life...Absolutely no!

[Grailhawk]

I actually like the idea of letting people get power from some kind a legendary grind, and I even like the idea of not letting that power stack with past life power. However I don't like that your suggestion is to let people "buy past lives".

IMO the way to do this is to look at all the past live feats and give them a new bonus type lets call it a Merit bonus. This bonus type will stack with it self but has a cap. So as an example Merit bonus to damage will stack up to 9. This means that some one with x3 Ranger and x3 Monk past lives using a bow will not gain an bonus to damage from the new Legendary grind, however a melee with no monk past lives could grind out 9 legendary damage merits and get +9 bonus to damage a melee with 3 monk past lives would only need to grind out 6 legendary damage merits. This is just an example of how this could and should work I'm not actually saying to add a legendary grind system that adds +6 damage to melee.

[FranOhmsford]

I actually like the idea of letting people get power from some kind a legendary grind, and I even like the idea of not letting that power stack with past life power. However I don't like that your suggestion is to let people "buy past lives".

1st of all there's nothing here about "buying" past lives - I didn't advocate for them to be put in the store OR to be buyable for plat either!

Secondly - This would equate to an {hopefully} Equal Grind as the current past life system. Only it would be a grind through Legendary Content rather than heading back to Lvl 1 over and over and over again.
In fact considering how many people constantly complain that heroic content is too easy and seeing that many people have completed past lives in 3 days or less there's a good chance this would actually be MORE difficult than the current system.
But the thing is it would give players a CHOICE!

So if a player loathes playing a Druid or doesn't want to change race to get through Iconic lives that player has another option to get the benefit.

Yes this should be the same bonus type as Past Lives so the two do not stack.

[Vellrad]

• Add currency aquired in all legendary content.
• Put vendor with that currency.
• Give him otto boxes, tomes, exclusive cosmetics, consumables, boosts (loot/guildxp/xp), some DDO store items (mirrors, raid bypas, select cosmetics), exclusive pokemons etc.

[Grailhawk]

1st of all there's nothing here about "buying" past lives - I didn't advocate for them to be put in the store OR to be buyable for plat either!

What I'm saying is that as we get enough Legendary Content for people to run and keep running you can add in a Legendary Favour system that allows people to earn an Heroic Past Life at a similar rate to what that player could do if he TRd and kept TRing.

Buy may not be quite the right word but its what I used to summarize that sentence.

Using "Legendary Favor" to buy a past life feat is what I have some issue with. Using Legendary Favor to buy a bonus to x that does not stack with Past life bonus to x I'm all for. I know that's almost the same thing and some people will think its the same thing but its not, and to me the distinction is important.

[FranOhmsford]

• Add currency aquired in all legendary content.
• Put vendor with that currency.
• Give him otto boxes, tomes, exclusive cosmetics, consumables, boosts (loot/guildxp/xp), some DDO store items (mirrors, raid bypas, select cosmetics), exclusive pokemons etc.

Otto's Boxes?

I suppose that is in a way similar to my suggestion but why make players go through that rigmarole of TRing, Leveling up at an NPC, messing around with TR cache etc. etc. when they could be PLAYING THE GAME!?!

As for the rest - Yes a vendor with access for an in-game currency to certain Store Items would be a good idea for Legendary Rewards but it should probably be kept to mainly cosmetic bonuses so as to avoid yet more Power Creep.

Tomes should definitely be more widely available in game anyway and long before Legendary!
Raid Bypasses I can see being added to this as it would definitely lessen the P2W feel of those right now - I still don't like them because they cut the lifespan of content down too much and frankly with my suggestion players would want to run Legendary content over and over again but probably not all in the same day {There should eventually be enough Legendary Content that why would you want to use Bypasses?}.

[FranOhmsford]

Buy may not be quite the right word but its what I used to summarize that sentence.

Using "Legendary Favor" to buy a past life feat is what I have some issue with. Using Legendary Favor to buy a bonus to x that does not stack with Past life bonus to x I'm all for. I know that's almost the same thing and some people will think its the same thing but its not, and to me the distinction is important.

It's exactly the same thing!

Not almost - Exactly!

You're just changing the terminology!

[Grailhawk]

It's exactly the same thing!

Not almost - Exactly!

You're just changing the terminology!

No its not. If you change the terminology you change enough so that people can not say that you can get past lives with out running past lives which is important.

[Vellrad]

Otto's Boxes?

I suppose that is in a way similar to my suggestion but why make players go through that rigmarole of TRing, Leveling up at an NPC, messing around with TR cache etc. etc. when they could be PLAYING THE GAME!?!

Using existing code vs creating new code with 5,000,000 bugs. Guess which one is better?

Raid Bypasses I can see being added to this as it would definitely lessen the P2W feel of those right now - I still don't like them because they cut the lifespan of content down too much and frankly with my suggestion players would want to run Legendary content over and over again but probably not all in the same day {There should eventually be enough Legendary Content that why would you want to use Bypasses?}.

Without bypasses, me playing DDO is log in, do shroud, log out, avoid logging in for 3 days, because why bother (I hate XP grinding, and thats only thing to do if you are on raid timer), then come back for shroud after timer have passed.
Bypasses are increasing lifespan of the entire game for me, until turbine realeases 5-10 raids in the same update, its still log in, do raids, see ya 3 days later.

[Grailhawk]

It's exactly the same thing!

Not almost - Exactly!

You're just changing the terminology!

Also by not giving out the Past Life feat just a bonus that does not stack with the past life you can not get Completion or the other non passive past life feats (e.g. Ranger Past life lets you take a feat that gives you 3 Barkskin casts).

There is enough difference to make it different.

[FranOhmsford]

Also by not giving out the Past Life feat just a bonus that does not stack with the past life you can not get Completion or the other non passive past life feats (e.g. Ranger Past life lets you take a feat that gives you 3 Barkskin casts).

There is enough difference to make it different.

The Active Feats are in general not worth wasting a feat on anyway.

But why exactly should they be left out of this - Let's take my suggestion a little further:

1k Leg Favour earned and spent and you gain the equivalent of 1 Heroic Past Life {Your Choice}.
1.5k Leg Favour earned and spent and you gain the equivalent of 1 Epic Past Life {Your Choice}.
2.5K Leg Favour earned and spent and you gain the ability to take the Heroic Past Life Feat of your choice {but it must be one you already have the base Past Life Equivalent for {If you've earned the actual past life through playing that life you've got both anyway!}.

Note: I stated you still must actually use a Feat Slot if you want to use that Feat!

But why not have that as a bonus to Legendary too - Extra Feat Slots you can spend earned Legendary Favour to open.
Say 5k Leg Favour per Feat Slot up to a Maximum of 3 {Gives the players who've already got Completionist something to use that Leg Favour on.

As for the Completionist Past Life and Feat:
Completionist - 250k Legendary Favour earned and spent {Must have every Heroic Past Life or Equivalent already!}.
Completionist Feat and Extra Slot for it - 500k Legendary Favour earned and spent {Must have every Heroic Past Life or Equivalent + if using Equivalent Must Have Equivalent Completionist.}.
If using Legendary Favour to earn that's a total of 750k just for Completionist on top of what you've already spent to earn the Past Lives you haven't played through - At 9 Favour per Legendary Elite Raid and 3 Favour per Legendary Elite Quest that's an incredible amount of questing/raiding you'd have to do! {Though I would expect later harder Legendary Quests and Raids to give more Favour than those we have now.}.

And of course there'd be other possibilities for the Devs to put in to spend that Legendary Favour on - The Extra Feat Slots usable for any Feat your Character has available except Completionist being just one of!



Let's look at Vellrad's list:

Cosmetics - 10-30 Legendary Favour each.
Raid Bypasses - 25 Legendary Favour each.
Legendary Bypasses - 50 Legendary Favour each.
Mirrors - 100 Legendary Favour each.
+1 Universal Upgrade Tomes - 150 Legendary Favour each.
Otto's Epic Stone - 200 Legendary Favour each.
Otto's Heroic Stone - 300 Legendary Favour each.
etc.
etc.
etc.
Remembering that every time you spend any of that Favour you have to earn it back!

[Ligraph]

I like the ideas in this thread, but I think giving an extra feat slot would be a LOT of power creep, especially if it is level 30. I like the idea of getting PL benefits via endgame routes, but I think a better implementation would be to type PL bonuses and add bonuses of that type to top-end gear in VERY small amounts. This might have been mentioned somewhere, or it might have been ingame, to lazy to look.

This would achieve the same benefit (unless I missed something), but would probably be much easier to implement, and a bit easier to use.

I also think some things should be limited EXCLUSIVELY to PL grinding. I probably never will have more than 3 PLs on any toon, DC caster is a possible exception. But for people who put the time in, there should be a reward that is not obtainable any other way. Same goes for raiding. And (hopefully someday) PvP. This could be completionist, 4th fate slot, etc. Or it could be a new bonus, maybe a toned down version of completionist.

EDIT: About the feat slot, it will reduce hard choices even more, which is never a good idea. We need more if anything.