Vanguard Paladin for new players

[Kaisheng21]

Probably going to DTR into this build, and was thinking about making a GS bastard sword. What enchantments would you recommend for it?

[EllisDee37]

I'm not sure what DTR means, though I've seen it in a couple threads now so I may just be slow.

If you're asking about heroic greensteel, assuming you're overflowing with mats so you're making this weapon to use some up, the old standby choices are still the best: Min2 (for dr) or Lit2 (for dps).

Min2 = Acid, Acid Blast, Good Burst, Mineral 2
Lit2 = Shock, Shocking Blast, Good Burst, Lightning Strike

In both cases you can optionally swap holy for the "regular" elemental effect (acid or shock) and then take the elemental burst instead of good burst to do a net +1d6 vs evil and -1d6 vs neutral.

[unbongwah]

I would hazard a guess that "DTR = double TR." Epic Reincarnation followed by racial or heroic TR, probably.

[Kaisheng21]

I'm not sure what DTR means, though I've seen it in a couple threads now so I may just be slow.

If you're asking about heroic greensteel, assuming you're overflowing with mats so you're making this weapon to use some up, the old standby choices are still the best: Min2 (for dr) or Lit2 (for dps).

Min2 = Acid, Acid Blast, Good Burst, Mineral 2
Lit2 = Shock, Shocking Blast, Good Burst, Lightning Strike

In both cases you can optionally swap holy for the "regular" elemental effect (acid or shock) and then take the elemental burst instead of good burst to do a net +1d6 vs evil and -1d6 vs neutral.

So Min2 and Lit2? Also, I'm hearing that some people think Dust2 and Rad2 are good as well?

[EllisDee37]

So Min2 and Lit2? Also, I'm hearing that some people think Dust2 and Rad2 are good as well?

Yep, exactly right on the Min2 and Lit2.

I'm unfamiliar with Dust2, but I know Rad2 are great for sneak attack builds thanks to the blindness.

[sephiroth1084]

Took a long break from DDO, and only just got my S&B paladin back to level 20 and had some questions:

• In a thread talking about shield bash proc % mechanics, there was a post about Exalted Smite triggering on a shield bash (in addition to your regular swing), but not regular Smite Evil. Any idea what that's about?
• How viable does this look as a solid tank in tough (EE, LE, raids) content?
• Related to the above: I was looking at spending more AP in the Defender tree than in KotC to pick up (among other things) +20% HP, and +50% armor to AC, but I don't know when AC begins to be meaningful at this point. I've seen threads around saying 200+ is the goal for a tank, and others recommending 300+ for LE Slavers and such, but without picking up Combat Expertise and investing more heavily into Defender, I'm not sure how I would be hitting the lower number, let alone the higher.
• Do you think I can reasonably give up Exalted Cleave? I was looking at just enough AP in KotC for DM III and Exalted Cleave I, although, in light of the discussion about cleaves, I may dump that.

[EllisDee37]

Good questions all, though most are above my pay grade. I'll answer as best I can:

In a thread talking about shield bash proc % mechanics, there was a post about Exalted Smite triggering on a shield bash (in addition to your regular swing), but not regular Smite Evil. Any idea what that's about?
No clue.

How viable does this look as a solid tank in tough (EE, LE, raids) content?
It's certainly a viable platform. No doubt it would need some tweaking, and lots of high-end gear, but as a basic build concept it's pretty "sturdy" in that the basic building blocks should be largely squared away.

Related to the above: I was looking at spending more AP in the Defender tree than in KotC to pick up (among other things) +20% HP, and +50% armor to AC, but I don't know when AC begins to be meaningful at this point. I've seen threads around saying 200+ is the goal for a tank, and others recommending 300+ for LE Slavers and such, but without picking up Combat Expertise and investing more heavily into Defender, I'm not sure how I would be hitting the lower number, let alone the higher.
More in the defender tree sounds like a reasonable example of one of the tweaks I referenced above. For sure it's worth trying out, at very least. I would be most interested in your experience after fiddling with the setup to see how high you can get your AC and how useful it is in harder content. Maybe you can help me tweak the build.

Also, Combat Expertise is for sure worth a try, I would think. It's not like Power Attack is the be-all-end-all choice, especially since it's taken at level 30 because I ran out of melee dps feats to take. You may want to take CE as your 21 feat, pushing the remaning epic feats back and dropping PA. Once you get to 30 and play a bit, let us know your thoughts on epic feats and the best order to take them.

Do you think I can reasonably give up Exalted Cleave? I was looking at just enough AP in KotC for DM III and Exalted Cleave I, although, in light of the discussion about cleaves, I may dump that.
Again, this seems like a reasonable tweak to try out and see how it works. And again, I'd love to hear feedback from your experience.

[natakeu]

Slight problem for me, I am seeing a few things missing from the enhancement lines, specifically: Resilient Defense II & Durable Defense. Would these happen to be mislabeled or rewritten to another name? If so what?

[EllisDee37]

Slight problem for me, I am seeing a few things missing from the enhancement lines, specifically: Resilient Defense II & Durable Defense. Would these happen to be mislabeled or rewritten to another name? If so what?

Those are selectors of the Improved Sacred Defense enhancements.

[Kaisheng21]

I picked up a Spinal Tap from the 11th Anniversary, and was wondering if it was any good. Should I use it? If I should, what augment should I put in it?

[EllisDee37]

I picked up a Spinal Tap from the 11th Anniversary, and was wondering if it was any good. Should I use it? If I should, what augment should I put in it?

It's the best heroic bastard sword for leveling in the game.

I would most want to slot Good bypass, but unfortunately that's ML12. Before then, maybe Devotion, then switch to good bypass at 12?

[Kaisheng21]

It's the best heroic bastard sword for leveling in the game.

Well. Guess I don't need to make that GS one then.

[Kaisheng21]

I'm not sure if I'm playing this build right, so here's a description of my playstyle.

I lead with Divine Might, which is much better now it lasts 60 seconds, then Stunning Blow for Follow Up, then Exalted Cleave, Sunder and Trip, then start just hitting things, keeping all of the above on cooldown. I keep Stunning Shield for Champions, and spam Smites on Champions, orange/red names and anything else that looks tough. I keep Divine Favor on permanently, but Divine Favor + Angelskin seems to drain my spell points far too quickly to use, plus I already have DR/3 from my Gleaming Adamantine Plate.

Just hit level 12, so I've slotted a Good Ruby into my Spinal Tap courtesy of Lahar, and keep a Star of Irian on me for skeles and oozes. My gear right now is the Spinal Tap, a tower shield that gives +2 to auto shield bash chance and +1d4 bludgeon damage, Gleaming Adamantine Plate, twin rings of +4 Cha and +4 Con with empty colourless slots, +30% speed and +4 Str boots, Devotion 71 and Healing Amp. 19 gloves, Concentration 10 and Accuracy 9 goggles, GS belt of +45hp and +6 concentration, Dusk Heart, Feather Falling and +4 Wis Cloak, Helm of +74 SP and Stunning 5, Nightforge Gorget, Gleaming Adamantine Plate and Chaosgarde. I don't have any augments in any slots apart from the Good Ruby. Am I missing any effects? Should I be carrying around any more weapons?

I have Str 31, Con 20, Wis 14 and Cha 22, 315 HP and 281 SP, my AC is 45, saves 26/17/19, 8% doublestrike, +11% attack speed, 0 spell resistance, 114 fortification, 79 PRR and 40 MRR.

[EllisDee37]

Don't waste spell points on Angel Skin, especially when you have DR 3/- from adamantine plate. Use it for particularly nasty fights, but not as an always-on thing like Divine Favor.

I don't bother with Sunder on melee alts, but I do use Trip quite liberally.

All your listed stats are a bit low but are in the ballpark. If you cannith crafted up a 10-piece melee gearset to go along with your greensteel, every stat you listed would uniformly increase, but not so much as to be required.

I'm curious about your greensteel, especially as you list Dusk Heart. That means your greensteel HP item isn't Smoke with displacement clickie?

Two items worth considering are Cloak of Invisibility and (since you don't have Smoke greensteel) Bracers of Wind.

EDIT: I ran my Vanguard life before the cannith crafting pass, and on re-read it doesn't seem too far off from yours. You can read about my experience (and see the gear I used) in this post.

[Kaisheng21]

All your listed stats are a bit low but are in the ballpark. If you cannith crafted up a 10-piece melee gearset to go along with your greensteel, every stat you listed would uniformly increase, but not so much as to be required.

My Cannith Crafting level is only 73 right now.

That means your greensteel HP item isn't Smoke with displacement clickie?

My GS HP item is EPICLY screwed up. As far as I can tell, it's something like this. (and was meant to be something like this.)

[EllisDee37]

My GS HP item is EPICLY screwed up. As far as I can tell, it's something like this. (and was meant to be something like this.)

Even if it weren't screwed up, Mineral II is a poor choice for an accessory. The big ticket item for a Min2 is heavy fort, which can be slotted into a green slot at level 8. Much better would be Smoke, which grants 20% blurry and a 2/rest displacement clicky.

I wouldn't recommend belt, but instead bracers so it becomes a natural swap with bracers of wind.

[Whitering]

Thank you for the post Ellis...I am however completely over any melee that does not have cleave. I just recently did 3 wolf druid lives, with slight variations, and have a swashbuckler SDK, yes, he's pretty good, but **** if it doesn't feel slower to kill, though that's probably all in my mind since he does a lot of damage.

I guess I just like seeing orange numbers pop up all over the screen. So, this is no knock on your build. I am having some amount of fun with a two handed cleaver BF paly right now, but heck, I don't know if that will work in epic or not.

[Krushyn]

Enhancements (80 AP)

Vanguard (41 AP)

• To the Fore!, Shield Combat I, Vicious Shield I, Shield Combat II, Vicious Shield II, Shield Champion
  
  1. Shield Specialization, Armor Training II
  2. Shield Specialization, Brutality III, Stunning Shield III
  3. Shield Specialization, Follow Up III, Fatal Bulwark, Strength
  4. Shield Specialization, Shield Charge III, Strength
  5. Shield to the Face, Shield Charge III, Armored Strength

Knight of the Chalice (25 AP)

• Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil II, Improved Courage of Heaven
  
  1. Extra Turning II, Extra Smite II
  2. Divine Might III, Exalted Cleave III
  3. Exalted Smite III
  4. Empowered Smite

Sacred Defender (13 AP)

• Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
  
  1. Extra Lay On Hands III, Durable Defense III
  2. Resilient Defense II
  3. Strong Defense III

Human or Dwarf (1 AP)

• Human Damage Boost or Dwarven Toughness

Leveling Guide

1. SD0 Holy Bastion; SD1 Extra Lay On Hands I, II, III
2. SD1 Durable Defense I, II, III; SD2 Resilient Defense I
3. SD0 Sacred Defense; KoC0 Slayer of Evil; KoC1 Extra Smite I, II
4. KoC1 Extra Turning I, II; KoC0 Courage of Heaven; KoC2 Exalted Cleave I
5. KoC2 Exalted Cleave II, III; KoC2 Divine Might I
6. KoC0 Slayer of Evil II; Van0 To the Fore!; Van1 Shield Specialization
7. Van1 Armor Training I, II; Van0 Shield Combat I; Van2 Brutality I
8. Van2 Stunning Shield I, II, III; Van0 Vicious Shield I
9. Van3 Follow Up I, II, III; Van2 Brutality II
10. Van2 Shield Specialization; Van3 Shield Specialization
11. Van2 Brutality III; SD2 Resilient Defense II; SD3 Strong Defense I, II
12. Van0 Shield Combat II; SD3 Strong Defense III; Van3 Strength
13. KoC2 Divine Might II, III
14. KoC3 Exalted Smite I, II
15. KoC0 Improved Courage of Heaven; KoC4 Empowered Smite; Van4 Shield Charge I
16. Van4 Strength; Van4 Shield Charge II, III
17. Van4 Shield Specialization; Van5 Armored Strength
18. Van0 Vicious Shield II; KoC3 Exalted Smite III; Hum0 Damage Boost or Dwf0 Toughness
19. Van5 Shield to the Face; Van3 Fatal Bulwark
20. Van5 Shield Charge I, II, III; Van0 Shield Champion

First as a brand new to ddo player thank you for the build instructions. This game is nothing like anything else ive played and since i never played tabletop im woefully behind on rules and understanding. That being said, the Enhancements listed in the table above do not match what is in game. I think i can guess on some of them, but would it be possible to update with the current in game tree, or If someone has a higher level character with this build could they post a ScreenShot of their current tree for us "newbs"

Again, thanks for the build so far its been fun defeating korthos, Harbor and working my way into Delaras

[EllisDee37]

First as a brand new to ddo player thank you for the build instructions. This game is nothing like anything else ive played and since i never played tabletop im woefully behind on rules and understanding. That being said, the Enhancements listed in the table above do not match what is in game. I think i can guess on some of them, but would it be possible to update with the current in game tree, or If someone has a higher level character with this build could they post a ScreenShot of their current tree for us "newbs"

They're current, but the selectors generally only show the "selector" part in order to save space. For example...

Durable Defense III

...instead of...

Improved Sacred Defense: Durable Defense III

If there's a specific example of an enhancement listed that you can't identify I'm happy to help.

[Krushyn]

They're current, but the selectors generally only show the "selector" part in order to save space. For example...

Durable Defense III

...instead of...

Improved Sacred Defense: Durable Defense III

If there's a specific example of an enhancement listed that you can't identify I'm happy to help.

Thanks, im assuming its me and its probably something simple im missing but for the life of me i dont see it.

In level 2 line example you have SD1 Durable Defense I, II, III; SD2 Resilient Defense I But i do not see either of those on my screen. From left to Right i have: Item Defense - Extra LoH -Improved Sacred Defense - Sacred Armor Mastery - Saves Boost (I am assuming for Durable defense that means item defense?) Same thing for the next line up which i assume is what SD2 means, i have: Instinctive Defense - Bulwark Aura - Improved Sacred Defense - Sacred Shield Mastery - Defense Boost. on this line im not sure what resilient defense would go to.

If there is some trick or way to see the other full names please please enlighten me lol