Lvl 17 {The Dead Level}.

[FranOhmsford]

Devs: Can you please do something about the Lvl 17 Quests in DDO not being run.

Players don't take Lvl 19 till they're ready to take 20, Once they take 20 they lose BB on level 17 quests and start running Epics {Which also hurts Lvl 18 and 19 quests but I've noticed that since the changes to Epic XP requirements those are at least getting run a bit more now.}.

Here's a suggestion that would help a lot:

Allow Lvl 17 Quests to give BB at Lvl 20 - It's not like they are gonna give that much XP even with BB {especially when compared to say EN VoN 3 or Wiz King!} but it would at least be better than the current where they're basically not worth running at all because people get 20 from Vale, LoD, Wheloon then go straight to Epics and IQ!

Lvl 18 Quests could give BB at 21 and Lvl 19 Quests could give BB at 22 as well to give people more incentive to add these to their rotation rather than simply going straight to VoN 3/Spies etc.



BTW I'm not really that bothered about XP myself - I'm bothered about having people to run with! And there's a lot of people who DO CARE about XP!

[Qhualor]

I bank level 19 because there is a lot of level 16 quests that are untouched by the time I hit level 19. by the time I take level 18 if I level through heroics I can be a rank or 2 short, ive even once had all but a smidgeon of xp left before having to take 18. on an Iconic life I usually have just 1 rank or so banked. at level 18 I still look to run any of the level 17-20 heroic quests. I don't limit myself, and I know many don't either, to just level 16 content at level 18 banking 19. when the xp curve changed, it actually eased up the last couple levels to make it easier to level. the reason for banking is primarily because there is more content and xp than you really need. this is my final life so I have been trying to skip content that can be played in epics, so my options aren't as easy, but can still be done.

[FranOhmsford]

I bank level 19 because there is a lot of level 16 quests that are untouched by the time I hit level 19. by the time I take level 18 if I level through heroics I can be a rank or 2 short, ive even once had all but a smidgeon of xp left before having to take 18. on an Iconic life I usually have just 1 rank or so banked. at level 18 I still look to run any of the level 17-20 heroic quests. I don't limit myself, and I know many don't either, to just level 16 content at level 18 banking 19. when the xp curve changed, it actually eased up the last couple levels to make it easier to level. the reason for banking is primarily because there is more content and xp than you really need. this is my final life so I have been trying to skip content that can be played in epics, so my options aren't as easy, but can still be done.

On a 1st life character - Especially an Iconic who banks 15 and runs all the twelves before taking it - you can easily get 20 without even running all the Lvl 16s {Wheloon isn't needed for certain}.

On a 2nd life character you'll hit 20 without touching a Lvl 17+ quest.

On a 3rd life character I find I usually need to run IQ1 too but that's still popular and groups are easy to find for it. IQ1 is also base Lvl 18 rather than 17.


One of the biggest problems with quests of 17-19 though is the actual lack of XP {they give far less than most of the 16s - Especially Vale!}. This is why many people don't bother with them at 18 - You might but you're definitely in the minority here.

But by far the biggest problem is that they're simply not needed for XP even on a 3rd Life!


I've found that there's a big increase in difficulty going from base Lvl 16s to 17s too {yes there's a couple of 16s and 15s that are more difficult than the average as also there's a couple of 17s less difficult than the average but over-all that increase is definitely there}.
I don't see why the Devs shouldn't give people an incentive to run those 17-19 quests by upping the BB allowance to 20, 21 and 22 and allowing Epic Characters to get a bit more XP from them - It's not like they give amazing xp on BB anyway...The IQ quests are like 15k while Vale is 30-50k! EN Epics give 20k to 100k+ and are far easier obviously than the highest level Heroic Elites! {Well apart from IQ2 Flags which I've always felt are situated at least one level too high for their difficulty - I find them easier than IQ1!}.

[Paryan]

But by far the biggest problem is that they're simply not needed for XP even on a 3rd Life!

.

If the xp is not needed, even on a third life, then why are you promoting for the dev's to create the need to run them more? I agree they need more XP compared to VALE and those around them, but you yourself have said they are not needed to level.....

If you're worried about people skipping them due to lack of meaningful XP then doesn't it make more sense to ask for an XP balance for those quests rather than introducing a convoluted new rule to the BB mechanic that only applies to those few levels and not the rest of the game?

[FranOhmsford]

If the xp is not needed, even on a third life, then why are you promoting for the dev's to create the need to run them more? I agree they need more XP compared to VALE and those around them, but you yourself have said they are not needed to level.....

They're not needed to hit 20!

And once you do hit 20 the XP from them is pitiful comparatively to what you can get at that Level on EPIC NORMAL!

DDO is a game where the #1 reason that quests get run is the XP {No I don't like it either but that's just the way it is!} so the Lvl 17-19 quests are in a bad place at the moment, have been in fact ever since MotU!
The Lvl 18 and 19 quests have been given a slight boost thanks to the Devs upping the XP requirement for Lvl 20s {Lvl 20s no longer hit 21 just from a quick run through EN VoN 3, Spies and Wiz King.} but they're still unpopular comparatively!
The Lvl 17 Quests are pretty much DEAD!

Lvl 17
The Druid's Chain {4 Quests} - Runnable for BB on EE {also part of the Epic Sagas} - Heroic can be run quickly when capped and have all Epic Sagas ready then hand in all Sagas at once with Pot on and boom!
No reason to run Heroic anywhere near at Level!

Reaver's Refuge {4 Quests} - Was unpopular even before MotU - Is barely run at all now unless someone's after 5k Favour {In another couple of updates it won't even be needed for that!}.

Reign of Madness {4 Quests} - 1 Quest that almost everybody HATES {Acute Delirium}! Only one Quest in the Chain gets run often and that's because it's super quick and can be farmed to get 3rd Lifers the last 50+k they need to hit 20 {Sane Asylum}.

Abbot - The Raid that still never gets run for BB and is still sometimes failed with Lvl 30s in Group!

Shroud - OK you get a pass here but Greensteel is becoming less and less necessary and now we have Epic Shroud this could see a massive drop in runs over the next 12 months too.

[Paryan]

They're not needed to hit 20!

And once you do hit 20 the XP from them is pitiful comparatively to what you can get at that Level on EPIC NORMAL!

DDO is a game where the #1 reason that quests get run is the XP {No I don't like it either but that's just the way it is!} so the Lvl 17-19 quests are in a bad place at the moment, have been in fact ever since MotU!
The Lvl 18 and 19 quests have been given a slight boost thanks to the Devs upping the XP requirement for Lvl 20s {Lvl 20s no longer hit 21 just from a quick run through EN VoN 3, Spies and Wiz King.} but they're still unpopular comparatively!
The Lvl 17 Quests are pretty much DEAD!

Lvl 17
The Druid's Chain {4 Quests} - Runnable for BB on EE {also part of the Epic Sagas} - Heroic can be run quickly when capped and have all Epic Sagas ready then hand in all Sagas at once with Pot on and boom!
No reason to run Heroic anywhere near at Level!

Reaver's Refuge {4 Quests} - Was unpopular even before MotU - Is barely run at all now unless someone's after 5k Favour {In another couple of updates it won't even be needed for that!}.

Reign of Madness {4 Quests} - 1 Quest that almost everybody HATES {Acute Delirium}! Only one Quest in the Chain gets run often and that's because it's super quick and can be farmed to get 3rd Lifers the last 50+k they need to hit 20 {Sane Asylum}.

Abbot - The Raid that still never gets run for BB and is still sometimes failed with Lvl 30s in Group!

Shroud - OK you get a pass here but Greensteel is becoming less and less necessary and now we have Epic Shroud this could see a massive drop in runs over the next 12 months too.

I'm confused....I agreed that the XP was not needed to hit 20.

If I read your earlier posts correctly, you want people to play the quests more and are looking at ways to get people to want to do these quests because you enjoy them and and want other people in range to do them with.....If you can get XP from other quests, then I proposed increasing the XP in the quests you're talking about to make them more enticing. But, again, as you said and I agreed, these quests are not NEEDED to level. If they are not needed to level, then changing the BB mechanic won't matter as most people (according to you) skip these anyways....BB doesn't matter for a quest you don't do.

And to give a personal perspective: I save Druids for Epics, run abbott for loot (not BB/XP) and absolutely loathe the Reavers Refuge quests more than almost anything else in the game and avoid at all costs if possible. Reign of madness is hit or miss....sometimes I run them, sometimes not.

[Augon]

The bottom line is those quests are not needed - really for anything. And extended BB a level isn't really going to change that because even with Bravery Bonus thee XP from the lvl 17-19 quests is pitiful compared to the XP from any Epic Quest.

One way to make those quests viable again is to give them Epic XP if they are run at a level that is technically Epic. For Example, if you run a lvl 18 quest on elite,that quest becomes a level 20 quest - The quest should give 3x the XP it would give currently. Bravery Bonus rules would apply so only lv 20 or below characters would be allowed I order to get that premium xp payout. A level 19 quest could be run on Hard and get a similar bonus to XP.

Honestly, if I am level 20, why would I run the Storm Horns chain on Heroic when I can run the the first eveningstar chain in half the time and get 4 times the XP

[Qhualor]

On a 1st life character - Especially an Iconic who banks 15 and runs all the twelves before taking it - you can easily get 20 without even running all the Lvl 16s {Wheloon isn't needed for certain}.

On a 2nd life character you'll hit 20 without touching a Lvl 17+ quest.

On a 3rd life character I find I usually need to run IQ1 too but that's still popular and groups are easy to find for it. IQ1 is also base Lvl 18 rather than 17.


One of the biggest problems with quests of 17-19 though is the actual lack of XP {they give far less than most of the 16s - Especially Vale!}. This is why many people don't bother with them at 18 - You might but you're definitely in the minority here.

But by far the biggest problem is that they're simply not needed for XP even on a 3rd Life!


I've found that there's a big increase in difficulty going from base Lvl 16s to 17s too {yes there's a couple of 16s and 15s that are more difficult than the average as also there's a couple of 17s less difficult than the average but over-all that increase is definitely there}.
I don't see why the Devs shouldn't give people an incentive to run those 17-19 quests by upping the BB allowance to 20, 21 and 22 and allowing Epic Characters to get a bit more XP from them - It's not like they give amazing xp on BB anyway...The IQ quests are like 15k while Vale is 30-50k! EN Epics give 20k to 100k+ and are far easier obviously than the highest level Heroic Elites! {Well apart from IQ2 Flags which I've always felt are situated at least one level too high for their difficulty - I find them easier than IQ1!}.

right now im 3/4 through 92 or banking level 19. I was just a tad over 18 when I took level. so far ive run LOD chain through Rift, all Vale and ETK. that's it. xp is really good in RR, Amrath, Stormhorns quests and Acute Delirium chain. I know you still complain about the xp in Amrath and than you will probably say that RR isn't run much anymore, but I disagree. the incentive is there, its just players prefer to skip some of these heroic quests that can be played in epics until they get to 20. they prefer to go with what they were used to with the good xp quests in the past or old days die hard. I still see players xp farming Monastery and Sane Asylum. its also quite easy still running level 16s from level 18 to cap. like I said, the problem is there is too much content for that level range. if the top end of the xp curve wasn't turned down this much, there would be more players expanding their options.

[FranOhmsford]

The bottom line is those quests are not needed - really for anything. And extended BB a level isn't really going to change that because even with Bravery Bonus thee XP from the lvl 17-19 quests is pitiful compared to the XP from any Epic Quest.

One way to make those quests viable again is to give them Epic XP if they are run at a level that is technically Epic. For Example, if you run a lvl 18 quest on elite,that quest becomes a level 20 quest - The quest should give 3x the XP it would give currently. Bravery Bonus rules would apply so only lv 20 or below characters would be allowed I order to get that premium xp payout. A level 19 quest could be run on Hard and get a similar bonus to XP.

Honestly, if I am level 20, why would I run the Storm Horns chain on Heroic when I can run the the first eveningstar chain in half the time and get 4 times the XP

I'd love to see these quests get that sort of XP bump but it's never going to happen!

Heck just look at the Epic Quests that don't give silly XP - Tharashk Arena is 15k on EN and about 30k on EE WITH BB! BoB the same, Snitch the same!
It those quests give so little then there's no way the Devs will up the XP of Lvl 17-19 Quests to the 50k+ that would be actually needed to make them worth running for Epic Characters!

However: More XP is more XP and any bonus whatsoever will help a bit to get more people to give them a shot.

Your boost also doesn't help the Lvl 17 Quests at all {Just the 18s and 19s - Oh btw Heroic Elite Storm Horns is decent XP, Pretty sure What Goes Up is 60k+ for Heroic! and you really don't need BB from the Epic Version! - Considering how difficult EE What Goes Up is just run the Heroic Version for BB then run it to your heart's content on EN for 200k per run! Also means you can start those EN runs earlier.}.

Upping the BB limit for Lvl 17+ Quests by 1 {Making 17s BB enabled for Lvl 20s, 18,s BB enabled for 21s and 19s BB enabled for 22s gives people more time to run those quests and more incentive to run them too.}.
It also changes the Lvl Range for people to run them at to allow 18s-21s rather than 16s-19s - Yes it's the same amount of levels but it's a lot more people when you realise that those who've just ERd will be able to run them too - This will actually benefit ERs by giving them that little extra XP.




Let's face it....There's a big difference between Lvl 19 quests {BB requires Lvl 21 or lower} and Lvl 21 Quests {BB requires Lvl 25 or lower!}. No point talking about Lvl 20 quests as there's only one in the game - Dreaming Dark {Btw BB for that requires Lvl 23 or lower but every group for it maxes out at 22 still, Usually 21 because it gets done straight after the Flags which are Base Lvl 19.}.

[Augon]

I agree never gonna happen.

And the thoughts I expressed probably have many logistical holes cause I didn't think it through - just dumped it out as I was thinking. lol
Without looking it up the only lvl 19 quests I could think was Storm Horns, but as you pointed that was a bad example.

Level 17 is still left in the dust, as you said. Kinda sad really.

Perhaps, they should just do away with quests at lvl 17-19 and make all those quests lvl 16 or lvl 20 (depending on whether they have an epic counterpart)

May need to adjust the difficulty a tad on a few of them. And ofcourse that would create a ton of quests at that level range where many quests already exist.

But we can throw around thoughts like that all night and the bottom line is it wont happen.

[PsychoBlonde]

I run the level 17 stuff just to mix it up, but it depends on what I'm playing. There's a HUGE difficulty jump between level 16 and level 17 quests and that level contains some staggeringly awful fights difficulty-wise (Acute Delerium, end fight in Enter the Kobold). But I see people farming Sane Asylum and Monastery of the Scorpion fairly often. Most save the Druids quests for epic.

[Hobgoblin]

I run the level 17 stuff just to mix it up, but it depends on what I'm playing. There's a HUGE difficulty jump between level 16 and level 17 quests and that level contains some staggeringly awful fights difficulty-wise (Acute Delerium, end fight in Enter the Kobold). But I see people farming Sane Asylum and Monastery of the Scorpion fairly often. Most save the Druids quests for epic.

hmm how bout terminal delerium?

ran that quest once on he and never ever again

[cru121]

Upping the BB limit for Lvl 17+ Quests by 1 {Making 17s BB enabled for Lvl 20s, 18,s BB enabled for 21s and 19s BB enabled for 22s gives people more time to run those quests and more incentive to run them too.

I agree with Fran.

[FranOhmsford]

Level 17 is still left in the dust, as you said. Kinda sad really.

Perhaps, they should just do away with quests at lvl 17-19 and make all those quests lvl 16 or lvl 20 (depending on whether they have an epic counterpart)

May need to adjust the difficulty a tad on a few of them. And ofcourse that would create a ton of quests at that level range where many quests already exist.

I've thought about that possibility too but it's frankly a bad idea to just give up on having Lvl 17-19 quests {Heck the Devs already gave up on Lvl 20 Quests - There's only Dreaming Dark and the two Raids...LoB and ToD at that level}.

IF I was in charge of DDO I'd have someone go over the compendium moving certain quests up or down a level to fit the game better {You've all seen my suggestions in that regard} but looking at just the ones from 15-19 this is what I'd do:

Lvl 15s
In the Flesh - Move it up to Base Lvl 16.
Everything else leave as is.

Lvl 16s
Lords of Dust - Move it down to Base Lvl 15.
Everything else leave as is.

Lvl 17s
Ascension Chamber - Move it up to Base Lvl 18 {Triple the Base XP}.
The Shroud - Move it up to Base Lvl 18 {Double the Base XP}.
Druids Chain - Leave it where it is. {Add 50% to the Base XP}.
Reaver's Refuge - Move it up to Base Lvl 18 {Double the Base XP}.
Sane Asylum and Lord of Stone - Leave them where they are {XP is fine}.
Acute Delirium and Lord of Eyes - Move them up to Lvl 18 {Double the Base XP}.

Lvl 18s
In the Demon's Den - Move it up to Base Lvl 19 {Triple the Base XP}.
Everything else leave as is level wise but Double the Base XP.

Lvl 19s
ToD Flags - Move them up to Base Lvl 20 {Triple the Base XP}.
Wrath of the Flame - Leave it where it is {Double the Base XP}.
Weapons Shipment - Leave it where it is {Double the Base XP}
Murder By Night - Reduce it to Base Lvl 15 {Obviously will need re-scaling} - It makes no sense for this quest to be 2 levels higher than Outbreak when we ask whether it's Werewolves when talking to the NPC for that quest!
The Riddle - Move it up to Base Lvl 20 {Triple the Base XP}.
IQ2 Flags - Leave them where they are. {Double the Base XP}.
Cannith Manufactory Flags and Master Artificer - Move them up to Base Lvl 20 {Triple the Base XP}.
Storm Horns - Leave them where they are {XP is actually fine}.

Lvl 20s
Dreaming Dark - Leave it where it is {Triple the Base XP}.
Tower of Despair - Leave it where it is {Triple the Base XP}.
Lord of Blades - Leave it where it is {Triple the Base XP}.

There'd be a lot less Lvl 17s and 19s yes but more 18s and 20s.

[lyrecono]

Devs: Can you please do something about the Lvl 17 Quests in DDO not being run.

Players don't take Lvl 19 till they're ready to take 20, Once they take 20 they lose BB on level 17 quests and start running Epics {Which also hurts Lvl 18 and 19 quests but I've noticed that since the changes to Epic XP requirements those are at least getting run a bit more now.}.

Here's a suggestion that would help a lot:

Allow Lvl 17 Quests to give BB at Lvl 20 - It's not like they are gonna give that much XP even with BB {especially when compared to say EN VoN 3 or Wiz King!} but it would at least be better than the current where they're basically not worth running at all because people get 20 from Vale, LoD, Wheloon then go straight to Epics and IQ!

Lvl 18 Quests could give BB at 21 and Lvl 19 Quests could give BB at 22 as well to give people more incentive to add these to their rotation rather than simply going straight to VoN 3/Spies etc.



BTW I'm not really that bothered about XP myself - I'm bothered about having people to run with! And there's a lot of people who DO CARE about XP!

i usually run elites with BB, lv 15 quests (at 17) are a drag.
When i finally hit 18(holding 19), i run the lod chain, vale and pick up the gh and 3bc saga's, that gets me to 20 or pretty close to it
I avoid any of the newer quests like the plague, wheloon and peaks purple hue and reflection on the snow give me a head ache and i'm unwilling to turn post processing of to play a already unbalanced piece of content.
Same goes for most of eveningstar quests, boring slogs
Even worse is that 3rd madness chain

If these quests were better designed and more fun to play, i might consider playing them.....

[lyrecono]

I've thought about that possibility too but it's frankly a bad idea to just give up on having Lvl 17-19 quests {Heck the Devs already gave up on Lvl 20 Quests - There's only Dreaming Dark and the two Raids...LoB and ToD at that level}.

IF I was in charge of DDO I'd have someone go over the compendium moving certain quests up or down a level to fit the game better {You've all seen my suggestions in that regard} but looking at just the ones from 15-19 this is what I'd do:

Lvl 15s
In the Flesh - Move it up to Base Lvl 16. why? is it too hard?
Everything else leave as is.

Lvl 16s
Lords of Dust - Move it down to Base Lvl 15. lv
Everything else leave as is.

Lvl 17s
Ascension Chamber - Move it up to Base Lvl 18 {Triple the Base XP}. are you nuu\ts? that quest alloe gives lots of exp on the first run and is easily farmed for more, it is the sole speck of decent exp in this lv range, now it needs to compete with better quests at 18? why?
The Shroud - Move it up to Base Lvl 18 {Double the Base XP}. since when do people run this at lv? this isn't 2010
Druids Chain - Leave it where it is. {Add 50% to the Base XP}.
Reaver's Refuge - Move it up to Base Lvl 18 {Double the Base XP}.
Sane Asylum and Lord of Stone - Leave them where they are {XP is fine}.
Acute Delirium and Lord of Eyes - Move them up to Lvl 18 {Double the Base XP}. take another lv 15 quest away? why?

Lvl 18s
In the Demon's Den - Move it up to Base Lvl 19 {Triple the Base XP}.
Everything else leave as is level wise but Double the Base XP.

Lvl 19s
ToD Flags - Move them up to Base Lvl 20 {Triple the Base XP}.
Wrath of the Flame - Leave it where it is {Double the Base XP}.
Weapons Shipment - Leave it where it is {Double the Base XP}
Murder By Night - Reduce it to Base Lvl 15 {Obviously will need re-scaling} - It makes no sense for this quest to be 2 levels higher than Outbreak when we ask whether it's Werewolves when talking to the NPC for that quest!
The Riddle - Move it up to Base Lvl 20 {Triple the Base XP}.
IQ2 Flags - Leave them where they are. {Double the Base XP}.
Cannith Manufactory Flags and Master Artificer - Move them up to Base Lvl 20 {Triple the Base XP}.
Storm Horns - Leave them where they are {XP is actually fine}.

Lvl 20s
Dreaming Dark - Leave it where it is {Triple the Base XP}.
Tower of Despair - Leave it where it is {Triple the Base XP}.
Lord of Blades - Leave it where it is {Triple the Base XP}.

Again, why? who runs that content anymore?
getting 2 parties going and getting them to raid is a pain
There'd be a lot less Lvl 17s and 19s yes but more 18s and 20s.

Sounds like a lot of hard work for very little benefit, i agree that lv 15 is a dessert, it could use another chain, i'm just afraid they'll go all mentally challenged on us again and make it like all the crappy new content, only ment for triple heroic&epic completionists.....

[FranOhmsford]

why? is it too hard?

In the Flesh - For it's Level yes it is!

It's by far the hardest Lvl 15 quest {harder even than the new ones}!

And moving it up would allow moving Lords of Dust down - Lords of Dust is not a Lvl 16 quest by any stretch of the imagination!

are you nuu\ts? that quest alloe gives lots of exp on the first run and is easily farmed for more, it is the sole speck of decent exp in this lv range, now it needs to compete with better quests at 18? why?

Are we talking about the same Raid?

Or are you thinking of Litany?

Abbot run for XP? I've NEVER SEEN an E-BB Abbot! I've seen people try to run it for XP and it's literally always a Wipe!

Again, why? who runs that content anymore?
getting 2 parties going and getting them to raid is a pain

You've answered your own question - NO-ONE RUNS THEM!
So move them up a Level, Double the XP of the Raids and I guarantee you more people will run them!

take another lv 15 quest away? why?

Exactly what Lvl 15 quest am I taking away here?

Both Acute Delirium and Lord of Eyes are Base Lvl 17 right now!

Sounds like a lot of hard work for very little benefit, i agree that lv 15 is a dessert, it could use another chain, i'm just afraid they'll go all mentally challenged on us again and make it like all the crappy new content, only ment for triple heroic&epic completionists.....

Lvl 15 just got another Chain - Unfortunately it's aimed squarely at Massive AoE, Massive Defenses Builds so fails at its level where far too many players simply don't have that!

Lvl 15 is a bad level not because it doesn't have enough quests - It does now! But because the quests it does have simply aren't very good!


P.S. I also advocated moving Murder By Night down to Lvl 15 so my suggestion would end up with one more Lvl 15 quest NOT less!

[Qhualor]

In The Flesh was nerfed a few years ago. I think Missing is tougher than that quest now. I remember the complaints it was too tough and players avoided it. Now it actually gets run.

Litany at 18!? I could skip even more content and just farm that quest. I actually hate farming xp in general, more so Litany, but I would do it. In 10 runs that takes 10 minutes each you can get an entire level.

Also to add, Litany makes up for most of the xp in BB range for level 15s as an Iconic. A heroic life I can actually afford to skip it.

[FranOhmsford]

In The Flesh was nerfed a few years ago. I think Missing is tougher than that quest now. I remember the complaints it was too tough and players avoided it. Now it actually gets run.

In the Flesh isn't as hard now as it once was but that End Fight is still an order of magnitude harder than anything else {that's not an optional} at that level!

Litany at 18!? I could skip even more content and just farm that quest. I actually hate farming xp in general, more so Litany, but I would do it. In 10 runs that takes 10 minutes each you can get an entire level.

Also to add, Litany makes up for most of the xp in BB range for level 15s as an Iconic. A heroic life I can actually afford to skip it.

Guys - I never said anything about changing the level of Litany!

I was talking about ABBOT!

The Raid!

[lyrecono]

In the Flesh - For it's Level yes it is!
Maybe take ranged and melee dps into the group? maybe some CC? i'v seen bards own this quest

It's by far the hardest Lvl 15 quest {harder even than the new ones}!
i call bs, packs of 6+ mobs that spam AoE for 350 a pop and have double the hp of in the flesh is way worse, even worse, being stuck between oozes because you can't use your dps weapons in fear of breaking them.

And moving it up would allow moving Lords of Dust down - Lords of Dust is not a Lvl 16 quest by any stretch of the imagination!
No, but people love doing chains instead of running back and forth all the time



Are we talking about the same Raid?
Ma and lob? shroud? ToD, i never see this being ran at level and it's near impossible to fill a party with semi competent people (plenty of leeches from cesspool guilds hoping for a free tide though)Tod is shroud and tod is just to slow to fill and takes too long to complete compared to epic quests, people just want their past life to be over with.
MA and LOB are even worse, takes to long to get there too!

Or are you thinking of Litany?
no
Abbot run for XP? I've NEVER SEEN an E-BB Abbot! I've seen people try to run it for XP and it's literally always a Wipe!



You've answered your own question - NO-ONE RUNS THEM!
So move them up a Level, Double the XP of the Raids and I guarantee you more people will run them!
How, what will motivate them? even with 4 times the exp, getting 6 to 12 people willing to do them is small.
The loot is useless and the exp/min is too low, also: all you need is 1 bad apple to screw you out of hours of work



Exactly what Lvl 15 quest am I taking away here?

Both Acute Delirium and Lord of Eyes are Base Lvl 17 right now!



Lvl 15 just got another Chain - Unfortunately it's aimed squarely at Massive AoE, Massive Defenses Builds so fails at its level where far too many players simply don't have that!
Thus it's a badly balance piece of content, that's why i don't dare asking for new heroic content, i cant go and demand those builds and past lives from party members as it is, one of my ausi guild members has already reached the point of rage quitting ddo because he could get only 2 shrouds done since it became epic, simply because it didn't fill or failed due to people being terrible (mind you, this is a likable triple everything completionist vet player not getting a normal epic shroud filled).

Lvl 15 is a bad level not because it doesn't have enough quests - It does now! But because the quests it does have simply aren't very good!
Crappy quest don't count :P
If you exclude 80% of the server it's badly balanced, we need content we can get parties into.


P.S. I also advocated moving Murder By Night down to Lvl 15 so my suggestion would end up with one more Lvl 15 quest NOT less!

yeah.....that's another realms quest....no thank you


I returned to this post a few hours later, i've tried to set up the MA, Lob and ToD raids.
Everyone in level range i asked said it wasn't worth their time or didn't even answer at all.

So i tried to repeat the experiment with chrono scope (no excuses about flagging there), 26 people in level range that had the pack or were vip, 3 joined, when i asked the others, most said it wasn't worth their time.

Basically it boils down to freeloaders that want a completion (yet were unprepared for the raid) or tr vets that want fast exp per minute, raids usually aren't fast enough to warren playing them during heroic lives.
They found running around in those canith wilderness area's time consuming.

What i would propose is a item in the end reward list of all heroic raids,
1, Vella's cracked tooth
2, Zawabi's ring
3, Stormreavers Hairlock
4, The Abbot's finger bone
5, Xy'zzy's bee gland
6, A piece of ripped wing from Suulomades
7, Arraetrikos scale
8, A shrap of Toven d'Cannith's broken rune arm
9, A broken piece of dorsal blade from the Lord of Blades.
10, Horoth heart

combine these in a object like the book or sigil from necro 4 with a;
11, sigil of Dal-Quor
and get:
a, being flagged for all heroic raids for every tr, including pre raids like litany and the twilight forge
b acces to a transport npc that gets you directly to that raid on your airship

this would solve so much more problems then your attempt, though the exp boost is nice


Edit: server mergers would really help out......take a hint turbine!