Fixes for Restless Isles:

[FranOhmsford]

These are fixes that would make Restless Isles much more player friendly - I'll leave the Raids themselves to others who've run those Raids more than I to suggest fixes for.

1) Missing Beholder in Slavers of the Shrieking Mines {Optional Uncompletable}.

2) DCs of Gates/Doors and Chest in Slayer too high {Currently 47-50, Drop to 42-45}.

3) Wildman Rare should be always there - You have to get the Golden Figurine from Slavers before you can even get to him in the first place so make him 100% Spawn.

4) Raid Groups have to use Greater Teleport to get to the Raid because the entrance to the Raid is in a Public Instance only reachable through the Non-Raid Slayer {Give the Slayer a Raid Setting.}.

5) The Map - Like all Inside/outside quests {and quests on multiple levels} the map simply doesn't work.
Surely it's time to work out how to make usable quest maps for these instances {The Pit, Tempest Spine, Chains of Flame, Restless Isles Slayer etc. etc. etc.}. Players shouldn't have to go to the wiki for a working map!

[Hakushi]

These are fixes that would make Restless Isles much more player friendly - I'll leave the Raids themselves to others who've run those Raids more than I to suggest fixes for.

1) Missing Beholder in Slavers of the Shrieking Mines {Optional Uncompletable}.

2) DCs of Gates/Doors and Chest in Slayer too high {Currently 47-50, Drop to 42-45}.

3) Wildman Rare should be always there - You have to get the Golden Figurine from Slavers before you can even get to him in the first place so make him 100% Spawn.

4) Raid Groups have to use Greater Teleport to get to the Raid because the entrance to the Raid is in a Public Instance only reachable through the Non-Raid Slayer {Give the Slayer a Raid Setting.}.

5) The Map - Like all Inside/outside quests {and quests on multiple levels} the map simply doesn't work.
Surely it's time to work out how to make usable quest maps for these instances {The Pit, Tempest Spine, Chains of Flame, Restless Isles Slayer etc. etc. etc.}. Players shouldn't have to go to the wiki for a working map!

1- I think they could simply remove that optionnal and add more xp to other optionnals or the quest itself as a compensation.

2- I don't think it's really too high, but it's high. I think it's fine as is, but wouldn't mind the DCs to be lowered.

3- I agree.

4- I think the simple way would be to give Laina in the Foothold (or another NPC) the option to teleport the players to the raid entrance, the devs could decide what conditions are needed for Laina to accept to teleport the players. (Examples: Completed the Titan raid at least once, completing the first part at least once)

5- I agree the map can be very confusing but for the restless isles, the map is more a distraction than anything else because it doesn't help at all when traveling in the area. Once we know the area, it becomes much easier but very few people get to that level of knowledge for that pack because it's rarely visited. They could rework the map to help revitalize the area.

I think a great way to bring back people in the Restless Isles would be to make the raids and quests epic (or legendary). With upgraded loot, the area would be played again. Epic Titan had been requested by players for a long time. The basic raid loot could be reworked as well because at level, most iitems are severly outdated. The Restless Isles deserves to be more than a quick favor run.

[dunklezhan]

I have no problem with those DCs. My first life rogue never had an issue, and I dont' recall my arti having a problem either. DC50 - +11-13 lock pick item at that level should be achievable (though with current loot possibly not as easy as it once was but there's currently still cannith crafting), let's say Int 16 +6 item for another +6, +5 lockpicks for another +7 putting you to 26ish. A Gh or similar from clickie or easily UMDable scroll for a rogue at that level (let alone an arti), a skill boost enhancement and you should be hitting that with a roll in the high teens and that's without thinking about guild ship buffs, bard songs, straight out passive enhancements and what have you.

Those DCs are fine, even for a casual monkey like me.

I agree with your other suggestions.

[Starla70]

Good ideas. Not sure if the quests have been updated as so many others have. I bet they have.

[FranOhmsford]

I have no problem with those DCs. My first life rogue never had an issue, and I dont' recall my arti having a problem either. DC50 - +11-13 lock pick item at that level should be achievable (though with current loot possibly not as easy as it once was but there's currently still cannith crafting), let's say Int 16 +6 item for another +6, +5 lockpicks for another +7 putting you to 26ish. A Gh or similar from clickie or easily UMDable scroll for a rogue at that level (let alone an arti), a skill boost enhancement and you should be hitting that with a roll in the high teens and that's without thinking about guild ship buffs, bard songs, straight out passive enhancements and what have you.

Those DCs are fine, even for a casual monkey like me.

I agree with your other suggestions.

Those DCs are achievable at Lvl for a Rogue or Arti yes but fine they are not!

Slayers are not meant to be challenging to the uber maxed out build - They are meant to be Normal Difficulty NOT Elite!
Lock DCs in Elite Lvl 8-10 Quests are nowhere near that high! The Marut Opt Lock in Elite Vol {a Lvl 16 Quest} is 50! just 1 DC Higher than the requirement to open a chest in a Lvl 10 Slayer! {That btw has a max level for full XP of 14 - 2 levels below E-BB Vol!}.

And then we also need to look at Knock!
Knock is a spell that has been sorely treated in DDO!
In PnP it's the Wizard/Sorc who gets the Magically Locked Doors because Open Locks is useless against Magical Locks! In DDO Rogues can somehow disable Spellwards Never mind get every lock in the game while Knock is rendered moot early on!
Yes we now have Transmutation Focus gear but at Lvl 10 that isn't going to make up the difference {Lvl 15 - Overlevel for the Slayer XP - Wizards and Sorcs have serious trouble hitting that DC without wasting 2-300 Spell Points!}.


47-49 DC is too high for a Lvl 10 SLAYER!
We're not talking about the Quests on Elite here, We're talking about the Slayer Zone! {And even if we were talking about the Quests on Elite that's still high compared to other quests of that level!}.
Honestly I've stated before that I think the DC should be dropped by 10 but I'll compromise and accept a drop of 5 because it does need to DROP!

[dunklezhan]

47-49 DC is too high for a Lvl 10 SLAYER!

Ah yes, but you see, I disagree with this statement.

[FranOhmsford]

Ah yes, but you see, I disagree with this statement.

Why though?

What's your argument to the fact that that DC is basically the same as in a Lvl 16 Quest?

Newbies tend to be the ones who run Slayers {Once you've run them a few times you start to ignore them} so there's literally no reason to put DCs in Slayers that Newbies will have trouble reaching even when at max level for that Slayer!
Slayers tend to be run alone - Again there's no reason to make the Open Lock DCs so high that a Wizard or Sorc has to cast Knock 5+ times per Door/Chest unless he's really lucky!

I agree that Rogues can hit that DC {especially now} but this isn't about Rogues - It's about KNOCK!


P.S. This is one of the reasons why I hate The King's Forest/High Road etc. - Skill DCs in them are set way way too high!

[Frogger1234]

2) DCs of Gates/Doors and Chest in Slayer too high {Currently 47-50, Drop to 42-45}.

For the gated doors, go the other way, kill ogre, get key, backtrack a little. I've done it tons of times, takes very little extra time and you add to slayers. I never felt it was a big deal, and killing a few slayer-level ogres isn't a challenge. It's not like you can't get through the doors.

Locked chests *shrug* it's not the only one I've missed, and I'm sure there will be more.

[FranOhmsford]

For the gated doors, go the other way, kill ogre, get key, backtrack a little. I've done it tons of times, takes very little extra time and you add to slayers. I never felt it was a big deal, and killing a few slayer-level ogres isn't a challenge. It's not like you can't get through the doors.

I know the Restless Isles Slayer like the back of my hand!

I have cleared the entire instance many many times!

I know about those keys {they only work on gates btw NOT Doors!}.

Locked chests *shrug* it's not the only one I've missed, and I'm sure there will be more.

The Door to Ghola Fan can be Blown up with a Fireball {which I actually prefer to do btw as it gets me 5 extra kills than picking it will - The mobs don't spawn if you pick the lock!}.

The other Doors {to optional rooms} and the Chest are the real issue here when it comes to the OL DCs.

Again I'll say this:
THIS IS A SLAYER!
It is NOT an Elite Quest!
Those DCs are frankly ludicrous for a Lvl 10 Slayer when the DC to the Marut opt in Elite Vol {A Lvl 16 Quest} is 50!

[Enoach]

These are fixes that would make Restless Isles much more player friendly - I'll leave the Raids themselves to others who've run those Raids more than I to suggest fixes for.

1) Missing Beholder in Slavers of the Shrieking Mines {Optional Uncompletable}.

This poor beholder has actually been lost since this mine was open. I agree it is way past time to find them.

2) DCs of Gates/Doors and Chest in Slayer too high {Currently 47-50, Drop to 42-45}.

See I actually disagree that these DCs are a bad thing. My reason is because for every gate/door there is a key. It is optional to pick the lock and when this type of situation occurs the DCs should be set high enough to test the limits of that level. The only chest I know of in there that needs picking is on the Wildman side and yes that has a high DC and I think it should remain where it is at.

3) Wildman Rare should be always there - You have to get the Golden Figurine from Slavers before you can even get to him in the first place so make him 100% Spawn.

I don't think any optional should be there 100% of the time, even if they open a shortcut.

4) Raid Groups have to use Greater Teleport to get to the Raid because the entrance to the Raid is in a Public Instance only reachable through the Non-Raid Slayer {Give the Slayer a Raid Setting.}.

This is something I agree needs to change, one of the problems with this raid is its accessibility while in a Raid group. Even with Greater Teleport you still need to be in a Raid Instance to use that option. Currently the Subterrain in the Market place being one of those spots. I actually think the better method would be to have that Dwarf that you talk to be a port to the Public area in front of the Raid. Additionally, he should appear in that public area so people can leave without having to travel into the explorer.

5) The Map - Like all Inside/outside quests {and quests on multiple levels} the map simply doesn't work.
Surely it's time to work out how to make usable quest maps for these instances {The Pit, Tempest Spine, Chains of Flame, Restless Isles Slayer etc. etc. etc.}. Players shouldn't have to go to the wiki for a working map!

This I think is long overdo for a makeover. Turbine has a few maps like this that really need the QoL Team to revamp with tech used in some of the newer quests. Like Mirror Darkly which fades the lines for up or down stairs and the Subterrain where each section of the map is separate.

[FranOhmsford]

See I actually disagree that these DCs are a bad thing. My reason is because for every gate/door/chest there is a key. It is optional to pick the lock and when this type of situation occurs the DCs should be set high enough to test the limits of that level.

Wrong!

Only the gates have keys - The doors do NOT!

The Chest doesn't have a key either!


And again - This is a Lvl 10 Slayer Zone {Based on Normal difficulty NOT Elite} - It has much higher OL DCs than equal Lvl Elite Quests! It has OL DCs within 1-3 pts of Elite Vol {a Lvl 16 Quest} for crying out loud!

I don't think any optional should be there 100% of the time, even if they open a shortcut.

Tiefling Rare in 3BC - Always there {May be bugged}.

Wight Rare {Saate} in Sorrowdusk - There every single time if you kill the other undead in that tomb {Not difficult to do}.

Errulf+Ayurro {the two Firebrands in Sands} - One of them will always be there - Yes I've run there 10 times in a row to get the one I already had each time then another 10x in a row to get the other each time!

Wrack {Cannith Manufactory} - Almost always there - Think I've seen maybe 2 runs in a 100 when he wasn't!

There is previous for Rares always being there and if any actually needs to be it's the Wildman in RI {You do have to get a quest item just to get to him!}.
It wouldn't be so bad if the Diplo/Bluff options actually worked at decent DCs {Honestly I'm not even sure these HAVE a DC - They're bugged or Devs trolling us!}.

Hey...Or even have the Icon be a one off hand in for that life - Get it once, hand to Wildman and he'll remember you on subsequent runs and let you in.

This is something I agree needs to change, one of the problems with this raid is its accessibility while in a Raid group. Even with Greater Teleport you still need to be in a Raid Instance to use that option. Currently the Subterrain in the Market place being one of those spots. I actually think the better method would be to have that Dwarf that you talk to be a port to the Public area in front of the Raid. Additionally, he should appear in that public area so people can leave without having to travel into the explorer.

Agreed.

This I think is long overdo for a makeover. Turbine has a few maps like this that really need the QoL Team to revamp with tech used in some of the newer quests. Like Mirror Darkly which fades the lines for up or down stairs and the Subterrain where each section of the map is separate.

Separating this map would be far simpler than say Tempest Spine.
Unlike Chains of Flame or The Pit it's not 10 floors on top of each other it's a single outdoor map and a single indoor map!

They just need to upgrade the map UI to allow two tabs - One for outdoor instances and one for indoor instances in the same quest - That would help plenty of quests and Slayer Zones.

[Hakushi]

I don't think any optional should be there 100% of the time, even if they open a shortcut.

I disagree here because for that particular rare, you have to use the Golden Figurine from the quest. That rare is hidden in the shortcut area when you skip the second fight leading to the Twilight Forge using the figurine.

[Grandern_Marn]

Trap DCs have never been an issue, they are fine as is.
A borked optional? Not a big deal.
Maps? who cares, use the wiki. This is a broader issue which has never been a priority with Turbine. The work around suffices, so be it.


Take a step back here and look at the pack on a general play scale. There is no pack in the game right now that needs epification more than Restless Isles. In 4 years of playing DDO, I have NEVER run the Titan rain because NO ONE runs it. It sounds like a blast but not having run it is a terrible shame.

With epification, simplify the access process. Think about it a second. In Restless Isles you first you have to talk to multiple people all over the place on different maps, then you have to flag for the flag for the pre-raid for the raid!!!! WHAT???? With the test of time this access process has strangulated the end product making it not worth running.

Epifying 3BC was a great success, it went from a neglected pack to a must run pack for many.
Please do the same sort of thing for Restless Isles, I enjoy the quests and would like to run it with others and not be forced to solo the content each life.

[FranOhmsford]

Take a step back here and look at the pack on a general play scale. There is no pack in the game right now that needs epification more than Restless Isles. In 4 years of playing DDO, I have NEVER run the Titan rain because NO ONE runs it. It sounds like a blast but not having run it is a terrible shame.

Oh I agree - I'd love to see Restless Isles Epicced!

With epification, simplify the access process. Think about it a second. In Restless Isles you first you have to talk to multiple people all over the place on different maps, then you have to flag for the flag for the pre-raid for the raid!!!! WHAT???? With the test of time this access process has strangulated the end product making it not worth running.

Like E-Orchard you mean?

And leave the Heroic Version the same as now like Orchard?

NO!

I want new Quests in Epic Restless Isles {Like E-3BC not E-Orchard or E-GH!} and I want the Heroic Pack to be buffed up so as to have people want to run it again.

Epifying 3BC was a great success, it went from a neglected pack to a must run pack for many.
Please do the same sort of thing for Restless Isles, I enjoy the quests and would like to run it with others and not be forced to solo the content each life.

Actually E-3BC didn't turn 3BC into a must run pack at all!

3BC was a must run pack long before E-3BC came out because of the added Loot and the upgrade to Heroic XP there!

The Epics apart from Two Toed Toby are pretty rarely run from what I can tell and wouldn't be run at all if it wasn't for the Saga!

3BC was always a great pack {Heroic = Best Slayer Zone in the game - STILL!} - The reason people didn't run it was NO Loot and weak XP - Once those two things were fixed it became a must run pack {Epic had nothing to do with it!}.




Actually I said above that I'd prefer the Devs to give us new quests in E-RI like they did with E-3BC and NOT the lazy retreads from E-GH or E-Orchard.
BUT
E-3BC had it's own problems - A truly awful end-quest and E-Prove Your Worth being basically a death trap! Along with too little decent loot {unlike E-Orchard} and low XP {except for Two Toed Toby}.
Both Epic Slayers are bad for me for completely opposing reasons - E-Orchard = too many mobs {way too many} per instance, E-3BC = too few {way too few} per instance.

Give us the Quest Design of E-Toby, E-Ghost of a Chance and E-Garl's {utilising the parts of the quests not utilised in heroic versions} along with the Loot design of E-Orchard!
And have the Slayer Zone be balanced properly - The Heroic Slayer is actually decent at 300+ mobs per instance on a full clear and 1500 max. The Epic version should be 500 mobs per instance and 7,500 max NO MATTER HOW MANY PLAYERS ARE IN SAID INSTANCE! No King's Forest shenanigans!

[cdbd3rd]

In this area, as well as a few others, map functionality needs attention. Just because some folks have run the area enough over the years to memorize it does not negate this.

Remove the quest requirement for the rare, or have him proc 100%. (As mentioned earlier, there are a few rare mobs that proc 100% in other explorer zones. This one certainly should be one of them.)

[cdbd3rd]

In this area, as well as a few others, map functionality needs attention. Just because some folks have run the area enough over the years to memorize it does not negate this.

Remove the quest requirement for the rare, or have him proc 100%. (As mentioned earlier, there are a few rare mobs that proc 100% in other explorer zones. This one certainly should be one of them.)

And the missing optional should be fixed - or the quest prompt removed.

[ValariusK]

Restless isles has a ton of fiddly bits in it. People won't run it in general because the aggravation of getting a group together and there for it through a public LFM isn't justified by the XP or loot or even the favor. Forget about anyone joining in progress in one of the quests, its just not happening.

I have a suggestion in general, not just for Restless isles. Have each server track how often each quest is completed in each level range. Don't count any completions that are 0 XP given (obvious favor only runs).

Any quest in the bottom say 10% of quests in terms of runs gets a bonus of say 50% until the next recomputation. I suggest weekly computation.
Any quest in the bottom five or so gets a bonus of say 100% until the next recomputation. Have the in-game NPCs make the players aware of these facts, maybe even through in-game mail like the Twelve Favor npcs use.

[Robai]

1) Missing Beholder in Slavers of the Shrieking Mines {Optional Uncompletable}.

Agreed.

4) Raid Groups have to use Greater Teleport to get to the Raid because the entrance to the Raid is in a Public Instance only reachable through the Non-Raid Slayer {Give the Slayer a Raid Setting.}.

This is a unique way to get to the raid. I really like this, this is a bonus!
That's why it's not just another pack, it has something unique (actually many things are unique there), not to mention this makes Greater Teleport spell more important (also makes UMD skill more important).

5) The Map - Like all Inside/outside quests {and quests on multiple levels} the map simply doesn't work.
Surely it's time to work out how to make usable quest maps for these instances {The Pit, Tempest Spine, Chains of Flame, Restless Isles Slayer etc. etc. etc.}. Players shouldn't have to go to the wiki for a working map!

Agreed, but maps in DDO are messed up in many places, not just in Restless Isles.
As for mechanics for exploring area I like it, also I like that quests can be just shared and then you can use the shortcuts.