Fixes for Restless Isles:

[FranOhmsford]

These are fixes that would make Restless Isles much more player friendly - I'll leave the Raids themselves to others who've run those Raids more than I to suggest fixes for.

1) Missing Beholder in Slavers of the Shrieking Mines {Optional Uncompletable}.

2) DCs of Gates/Doors and Chest in Slayer too high {Currently 47-50, Drop to 42-45}.

3) Wildman Rare should be always there - You have to get the Golden Figurine from Slavers before you can even get to him in the first place so make him 100% Spawn.

4) Raid Groups have to use Greater Teleport to get to the Raid because the entrance to the Raid is in a Public Instance only reachable through the Non-Raid Slayer {Give the Slayer a Raid Setting.}.

5) The Map - Like all Inside/outside quests {and quests on multiple levels} the map simply doesn't work.
Surely it's time to work out how to make usable quest maps for these instances {The Pit, Tempest Spine, Chains of Flame, Restless Isles Slayer etc. etc. etc.}. Players shouldn't have to go to the wiki for a working map!

[Hakushi]

These are fixes that would make Restless Isles much more player friendly - I'll leave the Raids themselves to others who've run those Raids more than I to suggest fixes for.

1) Missing Beholder in Slavers of the Shrieking Mines {Optional Uncompletable}.

2) DCs of Gates/Doors and Chest in Slayer too high {Currently 47-50, Drop to 42-45}.

3) Wildman Rare should be always there - You have to get the Golden Figurine from Slavers before you can even get to him in the first place so make him 100% Spawn.

4) Raid Groups have to use Greater Teleport to get to the Raid because the entrance to the Raid is in a Public Instance only reachable through the Non-Raid Slayer {Give the Slayer a Raid Setting.}.

5) The Map - Like all Inside/outside quests {and quests on multiple levels} the map simply doesn't work.
Surely it's time to work out how to make usable quest maps for these instances {The Pit, Tempest Spine, Chains of Flame, Restless Isles Slayer etc. etc. etc.}. Players shouldn't have to go to the wiki for a working map!

1- I think they could simply remove that optionnal and add more xp to other optionnals or the quest itself as a compensation.

2- I don't think it's really too high, but it's high. I think it's fine as is, but wouldn't mind the DCs to be lowered.

3- I agree.

4- I think the simple way would be to give Laina in the Foothold (or another NPC) the option to teleport the players to the raid entrance, the devs could decide what conditions are needed for Laina to accept to teleport the players. (Examples: Completed the Titan raid at least once, completing the first part at least once)

5- I agree the map can be very confusing but for the restless isles, the map is more a distraction than anything else because it doesn't help at all when traveling in the area. Once we know the area, it becomes much easier but very few people get to that level of knowledge for that pack because it's rarely visited. They could rework the map to help revitalize the area.

I think a great way to bring back people in the Restless Isles would be to make the raids and quests epic (or legendary). With upgraded loot, the area would be played again. Epic Titan had been requested by players for a long time. The basic raid loot could be reworked as well because at level, most iitems are severly outdated. The Restless Isles deserves to be more than a quick favor run.

[dunklezhan]

I have no problem with those DCs. My first life rogue never had an issue, and I dont' recall my arti having a problem either. DC50 - +11-13 lock pick item at that level should be achievable (though with current loot possibly not as easy as it once was but there's currently still cannith crafting), let's say Int 16 +6 item for another +6, +5 lockpicks for another +7 putting you to 26ish. A Gh or similar from clickie or easily UMDable scroll for a rogue at that level (let alone an arti), a skill boost enhancement and you should be hitting that with a roll in the high teens and that's without thinking about guild ship buffs, bard songs, straight out passive enhancements and what have you.

Those DCs are fine, even for a casual monkey like me.

I agree with your other suggestions.

[Starla70]

Good ideas. Not sure if the quests have been updated as so many others have. I bet they have.

[FranOhmsford]

I have no problem with those DCs. My first life rogue never had an issue, and I dont' recall my arti having a problem either. DC50 - +11-13 lock pick item at that level should be achievable (though with current loot possibly not as easy as it once was but there's currently still cannith crafting), let's say Int 16 +6 item for another +6, +5 lockpicks for another +7 putting you to 26ish. A Gh or similar from clickie or easily UMDable scroll for a rogue at that level (let alone an arti), a skill boost enhancement and you should be hitting that with a roll in the high teens and that's without thinking about guild ship buffs, bard songs, straight out passive enhancements and what have you.

Those DCs are fine, even for a casual monkey like me.

I agree with your other suggestions.

Those DCs are achievable at Lvl for a Rogue or Arti yes but fine they are not!

Slayers are not meant to be challenging to the uber maxed out build - They are meant to be Normal Difficulty NOT Elite!
Lock DCs in Elite Lvl 8-10 Quests are nowhere near that high! The Marut Opt Lock in Elite Vol {a Lvl 16 Quest} is 50! just 1 DC Higher than the requirement to open a chest in a Lvl 10 Slayer! {That btw has a max level for full XP of 14 - 2 levels below E-BB Vol!}.

And then we also need to look at Knock!
Knock is a spell that has been sorely treated in DDO!
In PnP it's the Wizard/Sorc who gets the Magically Locked Doors because Open Locks is useless against Magical Locks! In DDO Rogues can somehow disable Spellwards Never mind get every lock in the game while Knock is rendered moot early on!
Yes we now have Transmutation Focus gear but at Lvl 10 that isn't going to make up the difference {Lvl 15 - Overlevel for the Slayer XP - Wizards and Sorcs have serious trouble hitting that DC without wasting 2-300 Spell Points!}.


47-49 DC is too high for a Lvl 10 SLAYER!
We're not talking about the Quests on Elite here, We're talking about the Slayer Zone! {And even if we were talking about the Quests on Elite that's still high compared to other quests of that level!}.
Honestly I've stated before that I think the DC should be dropped by 10 but I'll compromise and accept a drop of 5 because it does need to DROP!

[Frogger1234]

2) DCs of Gates/Doors and Chest in Slayer too high {Currently 47-50, Drop to 42-45}.

For the gated doors, go the other way, kill ogre, get key, backtrack a little. I've done it tons of times, takes very little extra time and you add to slayers. I never felt it was a big deal, and killing a few slayer-level ogres isn't a challenge. It's not like you can't get through the doors.

Locked chests *shrug* it's not the only one I've missed, and I'm sure there will be more.

[FranOhmsford]

For the gated doors, go the other way, kill ogre, get key, backtrack a little. I've done it tons of times, takes very little extra time and you add to slayers. I never felt it was a big deal, and killing a few slayer-level ogres isn't a challenge. It's not like you can't get through the doors.

I know the Restless Isles Slayer like the back of my hand!

I have cleared the entire instance many many times!

I know about those keys {they only work on gates btw NOT Doors!}.

Locked chests *shrug* it's not the only one I've missed, and I'm sure there will be more.

The Door to Ghola Fan can be Blown up with a Fireball {which I actually prefer to do btw as it gets me 5 extra kills than picking it will - The mobs don't spawn if you pick the lock!}.

The other Doors {to optional rooms} and the Chest are the real issue here when it comes to the OL DCs.

Again I'll say this:
THIS IS A SLAYER!
It is NOT an Elite Quest!
Those DCs are frankly ludicrous for a Lvl 10 Slayer when the DC to the Marut opt in Elite Vol {A Lvl 16 Quest} is 50!

[dunklezhan]

47-49 DC is too high for a Lvl 10 SLAYER!

Ah yes, but you see, I disagree with this statement.

[FranOhmsford]

Ah yes, but you see, I disagree with this statement.

Why though?

What's your argument to the fact that that DC is basically the same as in a Lvl 16 Quest?

Newbies tend to be the ones who run Slayers {Once you've run them a few times you start to ignore them} so there's literally no reason to put DCs in Slayers that Newbies will have trouble reaching even when at max level for that Slayer!
Slayers tend to be run alone - Again there's no reason to make the Open Lock DCs so high that a Wizard or Sorc has to cast Knock 5+ times per Door/Chest unless he's really lucky!

I agree that Rogues can hit that DC {especially now} but this isn't about Rogues - It's about KNOCK!


P.S. This is one of the reasons why I hate The King's Forest/High Road etc. - Skill DCs in them are set way way too high!

[Stoner81]

Throw the entire pack in to the fires of Mount Doom and start from scratch and make it a lot easier to navigate round and people might actually play it.

Stoner81.

[FranOhmsford]

Throw the entire pack in to the fires of Mount Doom and start from scratch and make it a lot easier to navigate round and people might actually play it.

Stoner81.

It isn't hard to navigate around - Turn left at every junction and you'll clear the entire slayer {so long as you have a way to open those Doors}.

Do that a couple of times and you'll have the routes to Ghola Fan and Slavers Memorized - Even easier once you've talked to the Questgivers you can tele back to them from the start of the Slayer whenever you like {so long as you don't complete the quests and hand in - When you do hand in always retake the quests just in case.}.

I'm sure I still have a character at level for RI Slayer on Cannith btw and if you want I'll happily show you the full instance clear.

[skorpeon]

Throw the entire pack in to the fires of Mount Doom and start from scratch and make it a lot easier to navigate round and people might actually play it.

Stoner81.

I ran the two basic quests here on this life after some years of skipping this quest. After spending a bit of time exploring (and checking the wiki) I managed to solo the quests with only one fail. But this took me a long time to do (I did have fun in the quests TBH). Unfortunately my conclusion is I probably will not be running through there again for another couple of years. The time required to get to the quests and then complete the quests is just too much for a casual player.

Maybe eliminating the need to get keys to open the doors (could be pickable?) would make it a bit more bearable. A little bit of an XP boost maybe would also make it more attractive.

[FranOhmsford]

I ran the two basic quests here on this life after some years of skipping this quest. After spending a bit of time exploring (and checking the wiki) I managed to solo the quests with only one fail. But this took me a long time to do (I did have fun in the quests TBH). Unfortunately my conclusion is I probably will not be running through there again for another couple of years. The time required to get to the quests and then complete the quests is just too much for a casual player.

Maybe eliminating the need to get keys to open the doors (could be pickable?) would make it a bit more bearable. A little bit of an XP boost maybe would also make it more attractive.

Neither quest is that difficult or time consuming to reach for a self-proclaimed CASUAL player! Why are you worrying about a 5 minute run to the quests if you're not worrying about XP/Min?

Ghola Fan is actually a linear quest - There's only one way through it {other turn offs are literally immediate dead ends.}. It's biggest issues are:
1) The trap Gauntlet is nasty to learn {even if you do it first time on your Rogue Acrobat the next time you run the quest on your Cleric you're in trouble!}.
and
2) It's a hack n' slash endurance test of a quest - The first shrine is a long way in.

Slavers - Just remember to drop down to the bottom first and work your way back up {less chance of missing a turn-off.}. Oh and don't kill Red-Shirts!


I can always roll up an Iconic {stopping at Lvl 12} on G-Land to teach you the quick routes through RI and the Quests.
If you don't care about XP I have a Lvl 22 I can run it on.




I agree about the XP being low btw - They are longish Quests and could do with an XP boost.

[skorpeon]

5 mins? Yeah right, you have to go get the quest from the quest giver first, which requires getting some keys to get through the gates in the wilderness area. Then you go back in again to run the quest. It's not all that straight forward at all!

Then of course you have to go back to get the reward, of course there are the guides to help a bit, but I am just thinking these are all reasons why I rarely ever see this quest on a LFM. Admittedly a lot of people maybe soloing them?

I am not worried about the xp per min, but it is a bit of a disappointment after spending an hour playing to such a low xp score.

[Enoach]

These are fixes that would make Restless Isles much more player friendly - I'll leave the Raids themselves to others who've run those Raids more than I to suggest fixes for.

1) Missing Beholder in Slavers of the Shrieking Mines {Optional Uncompletable}.

This poor beholder has actually been lost since this mine was open. I agree it is way past time to find them.

2) DCs of Gates/Doors and Chest in Slayer too high {Currently 47-50, Drop to 42-45}.

See I actually disagree that these DCs are a bad thing. My reason is because for every gate/door there is a key. It is optional to pick the lock and when this type of situation occurs the DCs should be set high enough to test the limits of that level. The only chest I know of in there that needs picking is on the Wildman side and yes that has a high DC and I think it should remain where it is at.

3) Wildman Rare should be always there - You have to get the Golden Figurine from Slavers before you can even get to him in the first place so make him 100% Spawn.

I don't think any optional should be there 100% of the time, even if they open a shortcut.

4) Raid Groups have to use Greater Teleport to get to the Raid because the entrance to the Raid is in a Public Instance only reachable through the Non-Raid Slayer {Give the Slayer a Raid Setting.}.

This is something I agree needs to change, one of the problems with this raid is its accessibility while in a Raid group. Even with Greater Teleport you still need to be in a Raid Instance to use that option. Currently the Subterrain in the Market place being one of those spots. I actually think the better method would be to have that Dwarf that you talk to be a port to the Public area in front of the Raid. Additionally, he should appear in that public area so people can leave without having to travel into the explorer.

5) The Map - Like all Inside/outside quests {and quests on multiple levels} the map simply doesn't work.
Surely it's time to work out how to make usable quest maps for these instances {The Pit, Tempest Spine, Chains of Flame, Restless Isles Slayer etc. etc. etc.}. Players shouldn't have to go to the wiki for a working map!

This I think is long overdo for a makeover. Turbine has a few maps like this that really need the QoL Team to revamp with tech used in some of the newer quests. Like Mirror Darkly which fades the lines for up or down stairs and the Subterrain where each section of the map is separate.

[FranOhmsford]

See I actually disagree that these DCs are a bad thing. My reason is because for every gate/door/chest there is a key. It is optional to pick the lock and when this type of situation occurs the DCs should be set high enough to test the limits of that level.

Wrong!

Only the gates have keys - The doors do NOT!

The Chest doesn't have a key either!


And again - This is a Lvl 10 Slayer Zone {Based on Normal difficulty NOT Elite} - It has much higher OL DCs than equal Lvl Elite Quests! It has OL DCs within 1-3 pts of Elite Vol {a Lvl 16 Quest} for crying out loud!

I don't think any optional should be there 100% of the time, even if they open a shortcut.

Tiefling Rare in 3BC - Always there {May be bugged}.

Wight Rare {Saate} in Sorrowdusk - There every single time if you kill the other undead in that tomb {Not difficult to do}.

Errulf+Ayurro {the two Firebrands in Sands} - One of them will always be there - Yes I've run there 10 times in a row to get the one I already had each time then another 10x in a row to get the other each time!

Wrack {Cannith Manufactory} - Almost always there - Think I've seen maybe 2 runs in a 100 when he wasn't!

There is previous for Rares always being there and if any actually needs to be it's the Wildman in RI {You do have to get a quest item just to get to him!}.
It wouldn't be so bad if the Diplo/Bluff options actually worked at decent DCs {Honestly I'm not even sure these HAVE a DC - They're bugged or Devs trolling us!}.

Hey...Or even have the Icon be a one off hand in for that life - Get it once, hand to Wildman and he'll remember you on subsequent runs and let you in.

This is something I agree needs to change, one of the problems with this raid is its accessibility while in a Raid group. Even with Greater Teleport you still need to be in a Raid Instance to use that option. Currently the Subterrain in the Market place being one of those spots. I actually think the better method would be to have that Dwarf that you talk to be a port to the Public area in front of the Raid. Additionally, he should appear in that public area so people can leave without having to travel into the explorer.

Agreed.

This I think is long overdo for a makeover. Turbine has a few maps like this that really need the QoL Team to revamp with tech used in some of the newer quests. Like Mirror Darkly which fades the lines for up or down stairs and the Subterrain where each section of the map is separate.

Separating this map would be far simpler than say Tempest Spine.
Unlike Chains of Flame or The Pit it's not 10 floors on top of each other it's a single outdoor map and a single indoor map!

They just need to upgrade the map UI to allow two tabs - One for outdoor instances and one for indoor instances in the same quest - That would help plenty of quests and Slayer Zones.

[FranOhmsford]

5 mins? Yeah right, you have to go get the quest from the quest giver first, which requires getting some keys to get through the gates in the wilderness area. Then you go back in again to run the quest. It's not all that straight forward at all!

Then of course you have to go back to get the reward, of course there are the guides to help a bit, but I am just thinking these are all reasons why I rarely ever see this quest on a LFM. Admittedly a lot of people maybe soloing them?

I am not worried about the xp per min, but it is a bit of a disappointment after spending an hour playing to such a low xp score.

I'd say most people running Ghola Fan and Slavers are soloing - There's just no point putting an LFM up because no-one joins any LFM till you're already IP and once in Ghola Fan or Slavers I'm not recalling to lead them through the Slayer!

I sometimes put an LFM up saying Slayer Clearance while waiting and still no-one joins before I'm in the quest - 30 minutes later {it's a big slayer!}.


But I'll tell you what - I'll show you the whole slayer if you like, It may take a bit longer to go to the questgiver the first time but if you remember to repeat the quest when you hand in you can tele to him any other time that life.

It really doesn't take all that long to run to those quests.

I can log on to G-Land right now if you like {Lvl 22 though so no XP - Oh and not sure if I've done HiPS on that toon or not.}.

[Frogger1234]

I'd say most people running Ghola Fan and Slavers are soloing - There's just no point putting an LFM up because no-one joins any LFM till you're already IP and once in Ghola Fan or Slavers I'm not recalling to lead them through the Slayer!

Sharing the quest enables any joiners to use the Runetusk and Wildman guides in the first passage. They would still have to get from the quest giver to the quest, but it is shorter (and more direct) than the whole path through the Wilderness Area.

Even so, I didn't get any joiners the last time I ran Ghola Fan.

[Hakushi]

I don't think any optional should be there 100% of the time, even if they open a shortcut.

I disagree here because for that particular rare, you have to use the Golden Figurine from the quest. That rare is hidden in the shortcut area when you skip the second fight leading to the Twilight Forge using the figurine.

[Grandern_Marn]

Trap DCs have never been an issue, they are fine as is.
A borked optional? Not a big deal.
Maps? who cares, use the wiki. This is a broader issue which has never been a priority with Turbine. The work around suffices, so be it.


Take a step back here and look at the pack on a general play scale. There is no pack in the game right now that needs epification more than Restless Isles. In 4 years of playing DDO, I have NEVER run the Titan rain because NO ONE runs it. It sounds like a blast but not having run it is a terrible shame.

With epification, simplify the access process. Think about it a second. In Restless Isles you first you have to talk to multiple people all over the place on different maps, then you have to flag for the flag for the pre-raid for the raid!!!! WHAT???? With the test of time this access process has strangulated the end product making it not worth running.

Epifying 3BC was a great success, it went from a neglected pack to a must run pack for many.
Please do the same sort of thing for Restless Isles, I enjoy the quests and would like to run it with others and not be forced to solo the content each life.