Nude Run 1-20 build advice

[Saekee]

How is fortification a problem here? Vampires have 100% fort. You get all the necessary melee feats: both cleaves and improved critical. You have heals, one which can be used to damage everything around you every 6 seconds for 7 sp! You have every buff that you might need save for greater heroism.

EDIT: And I just noticed I left out Pastlife: Druid from my build. A sec as I fix this.

For some reason I thought you meant 12 druid! Yes, your level split is solid and I proposed it too at the end of one of my posts. It is either that or heavy druid, at this point.

[Caprice]

Maybe a druid life before doing your naked run?
I envisioned a 12 cleric / 6 wizard / 2 monk build. (details snipped for brevity)

I really like this idea. I have a 1st life epic Druid that I was planning to HTR soon so I may try your build.

[Saekee]

Food for thought: A warforged in Beast mode still keeps its fortification bonus.

[unbongwah]

Food for thought: A warforged in Beast mode still keeps its fortification bonus.

IIRC, you lose all of your Warforged traits when you shift into other forms - which includes undead PM forms - but keep your +25% Fortification because it's a separate feat for some reason. I think you also lose your 50% positive energy penalty in other forms.

[Thrudh]

Elf for displacement dragonmark would be very useful.

[Saekee]

IIRC, you lose all of your Warforged traits when you shift into other forms - which includes undead PM forms - but keep your +25% Fortification because it's a separate feat for some reason. I think you also lose your 50% positive energy penalty in other forms.

Yes! I tested this just now and the fort remained. Problem is that WF has a huge Wis penalty

Elf for displacement dragonmark would be very useful.

Yeah, just trying to figure out the fortification. I am inclined to do this in such a way as to get a druid past life and then do it again with flame blades as an active PL feat.

[Saekee]

Does eschew materials work on Flame arrow? I could also do a thrower build in that case, and they are invincible

[holfrar]

Warforged Clonk?

WF will sort your Fort out.
Cleric healing spells cost no Mats.
Lots of decent buffs don't need Mats (nightshield, bless, Aid etc.)
depends how many cleric levels but 12 gives you the aura, blade barrier, death ward, divine power (+6 str)
Monk for fighting barehanded.
Take healers friend.

Wf will give you good con for more hp.
only downside is Wis penalty but you can still start with 16 wis and 18 con and still have several points left to spend on other stats as you see fit (charisma for turns etc)

[Caprice]

Yes! I tested this just now and the fort remained. Problem is that WF has a huge Wis penalty

-2 WIS is a penalty but it won't be crippling. If you are a Druid using Flame Blade you've consolidated your DCs and melee attack/damage all as WIS so you won't need to spread points as much so you can go all in on WIS. You will always be a bit behind due to not having gear (esp. Deadly & Seeker for melee) but that was always going to be the case and at least you can self buff with Owl's Wisdom. If you are multiclassing then MAD becomes an issue and the WIS penalty is going to hurt, but I think a pure Druid or lightly splashed version should be fine, especially since you are not continuing into epics.

Are you willing to abuse the bug that allows combat styles to stack with animal form bonuses? I try to avoid it but those are the best DPS boosts you can get and will help a lot in closing the gap with people using gear.

[peng]

Be careful not to depend too heavily on flameblades, as there are a lot of fire-immune creatures floating around. You could use the blades most of the time and swap to fists for fire immunes, but that would suck if completely dumping strength.

Tested flame arrow with harper's magic of austerity: no go

[Saekee]

Warforged Clonk?

WF will sort your Fort out.
Cleric healing spells cost no Mats.
Lots of decent buffs don't need Mats (nightshield, bless, Aid etc.)
depends how many cleric levels but 12 gives you the aura, blade barrier, death ward, divine power (+6 str)
Monk for fighting barehanded.
Take healers friend.

Wf will give you good con for more hp.
only downside is Wis penalty but you can still start with 16 wis and 18 con and still have several points left to spend on other stats as you see fit (charisma for turns etc)

That would probably work although I am drawn to the idea of a druid past life. Both splits with cleric though seem really solid. The advantage of your idea is that it starts working immediately, even at low levels, and warpriest gives blurry

-2 WIS is a penalty but it won't be crippling. If you are a Druid using Flame Blade you've consolidated your DCs and melee attack/damage all as WIS so you won't need to spread points as much so you can go all in on WIS. You will always be a bit behind due to not having gear (esp. Deadly & Seeker for melee) but that was always going to be the case and at least you can self buff with Owl's Wisdom. If you are multiclassing then MAD becomes an issue and the WIS penalty is going to hurt, but I think a pure Druid or lightly splashed version should be fine, especially since you are not continuing into epics.

Are you willing to abuse the bug that allows combat styles to stack with animal form bonuses? I try to avoid it but those are the best DPS boosts you can get and will help a lot in closing the gap with people using gear.

thx--no bug abuse (you mean Swf and ranger TWF in wolf?).
My main issue with druid is that wolf form is SWF whereas early monk levels and elemental forms would be TWF. I suppose I could skip wolf form entirely.

Be careful not to depend too heavily on flameblades, as there are a lot of fire-immune creatures floating around. You could use the blades most of the time and swap to fists for fire immunes, but that would suck if completely dumping strength.

Tested flame arrow with harper's magic of austerity: no go

Thank you for testing the flame shurikens spell. Oh well...As for the flame blades, I like them as an option for a future build which might be able to skip monk levels entirely. They are flawed but interesting--I thought they break all DRs since they are will-based?

Thanks everyone for your thoughts thus far. I fear it is far more complex than I initially realized. Best options seem for a druid PL out if this:
1) WF monk 2/ wiz 3/druid and run with SWF. Every wiz level lowers BAB qualifiers but they get me blur, mage armor, shield spell and other EK stuff. Low levels would use wiz for arcane repairs.
2) elven monk 2/druid 18--no fort until elemental beast mode but I can get displacement dragonmark, feywild tap for incorp. This would be TWF stunning fist/flame blades (elemental form woukd be fire) or druid 15 and 3 wiz

If I wish to forego the druid past life than clonk or the excellent PM builds would work well.

[Jasparion]

Elf for displacement dragonmark would be very useful.

I would be much more concerned about where run speed will come from.

Human Dragonmark
Arcane casting Expeditious Retreat / Haste
Barb Run Speed
Etc.

Fortification is another big one. Though if you go some sort of ranged toon then its quite possible you will never get hit.

Will the toon use ship buffs?

[Saekee]

I would be much more concerned about where run speed will come from.

Human Dragonmark
Arcane casting Expeditious Retreat / Haste
Barb Run Speed
Etc.

Fortification is another big one. Though if you go some sort of ranged toon then its quite possible you will never get hit.

Will the toon use ship buffs?

no ship buffs--and yeah, fort is the big issue. Ranged thrower can't work--peng clarified that eschew will not allow flame arrow (for shurikens) to work.
Run speed--I am considering 3 wizard for basic EK buffs and expeditious retreat.

[Caprice]

I may be beating a dead horse at this point, but I think you would be fine going pure Druid WF Wolf. Take Eschew at level 1 and rely mostly on Produce Flame and slow melee. You will struggle somewhat at level 1 but it goes pretty quickly anyway. At Druid 2 you'll get Wolf which is decent DPS on its own and bypasses the WF healing penalty and should skip the non-Monk unarmed attack penalty (untested). Starting as either Monk or Wizard will be easier but isn't necessary.

How set are you on Evasion? I am not convinced that it will be reliable outside of Normal difficulty. Monk is the only class in your splits that has a good Reflex save but you are not planning on taking many Monk levels. You won't have gear to improve your saves and attributes, so at best you are getting +2 Reflex from Cat's Grace and +1 from Nightshield (w/Wiz splash; can reach +2 or +3 on the PM or Clonk builds). The Water stances from Monk will help (at a feat cost) but I think that getting better healing sooner (and safety measures like Spring's Resurgence in tier 4 Season's Herald) will improve your survivability more than Evasion will, as will some of the CC spells (e.g. combining FoM w/Sleet Storm, and of course Earthquake).

As far as runspeed Druids get Longstrider as a level 1 spell. It is only +15% to Expeditious Retreat's +25% but it helps. But you won't get Shield or Nightshield for MM immunity from Druid. You also won't get Blur but in a pinch you can get 20% Concealment by fighting inside a Fog Cloud (Druid level 2 spell) or 50% on foes Blinded inside Sleet Storm. Blur is much more reliable but Druid does get to fake it somewhat.

I wouldn't be worried about fire immune monsters on a Druid based character as you can fall back on Cold and Lightning spells. Not much is immune to all 3. And base Wolf damage is slashing/piercing so it will still harm them fine on the WF version.

[Saekee]

I may be beating a dead horse at this point, but I think you would be fine going pure Druid WF Wolf. Take Eschew at level 1 and rely mostly on Produce Flame and slow melee. You will struggle somewhat at level 1 but it goes pretty quickly anyway. At Druid 2 you'll get Wolf which is decent DPS on its own and bypasses the WF healing penalty and should skip the non-Monk unarmed attack penalty (untested). Starting as either Monk or Wizard will be easier but isn't necessary.

How set are you on Evasion? I am not convinced that it will be reliable outside of Normal difficulty. Monk is the only class in your splits that has a good Reflex save but you are not planning on taking many Monk levels. You won't have gear to improve your saves and attributes, so at best you are getting +2 Reflex from Cat's Grace and +1 from Nightshield (w/Wiz splash; can reach +2 or +3 on the PM or Clonk builds). The Water stances from Monk will help (at a feat cost) but I think that getting better healing sooner (and safety measures like Spring's Resurgence in tier 4 Season's Herald) will improve your survivability more than Evasion will, as will some of the CC spells (e.g. combining FoM w/Sleet Storm, and of course Earthquake).

As far as runspeed Druids get Longstrider as a level 1 spell. It is only +15% to Expeditious Retreat's +25% but it helps. But you won't get Shield or Nightshield for MM immunity from Druid. You also won't get Blur but in a pinch you can get 20% Concealment by fighting inside a Fog Cloud (Druid level 2 spell) or 50% on foes Blinded inside Sleet Storm. Blur is much more reliable but Druid does get to fake it somewhat.

I wouldn't be worried about fire immune monsters on a Druid based character as you can fall back on Cold and Lightning spells. Not much is immune to all 3. And base Wolf damage is slashing/piercing so it will still harm them fine on the WF version.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

I plan to take the feat Resilience to boost saves another 4.

As you note, I feel I need blur, shield etc. I want all those missed chances. With wolf form, I guess I need to be specced for SWF which means outside of wolf I would use a flameblade (not all bad!). I think monk would give stances, unarmed attack and evasion as well as wisdom to AC. Arcane levels would get blur and haste. I fear as a pure wolf I would not have good defenses--no blur, incorp, evasion etc.
Good point though for level 1. But if I do this run on my main, I would get all the PL perks including epic PLs like fast healing and DS of 9%. The xp costs for a vet are high unless running BB elite streak which is where my challenge lies.

A pale master approach of monk/vamp/cleric will not be in PM form until cleric hits 4 (for SLA) and wiz 6 (for vamp) so with monk 2 that means level 12...
It seems for fortification, I can't escape being WF except for 13 Druid's elemental form. So either PM or druid pushes the fort back to levels 12 & 13. However, the PM option would use cleric levels early for heals so it is front loaded with wiz defenses/buffs and cleric heals.
The other option would be to go monk/arti and use artificer repair abilities and buffs with a 6 monk/6 art base and then add 8 whatever for PL bonus. Nuts.

WF monk/wiz/druid does accomplish a lot and I could use summons as meatshields

[Saekee]

This split will give me decent dodge, incorp, haste and displacement as well as a poor-DC stunning fist. Harper tier 5 for free extend and eschew materials as well as Melee power and spell power from same tree (12), righteousness enchantment on fists (unless borked with wraps). I am going Druid for the past life: Druid (cleric would be better, maybe next time).
Warforged will use repair systems early, and later will shift to healer friend and rely more on fists of light and empowered druid heals. Summons for meat shields.

Full warforged immunities & fortification, wizard buffs, druid healing, monkness of Improved evasion. Resilience feat for +4 saves.
Some epic past life stuff will get me through the worst (slow healing etc.). Since I have 3 monk past lives and 1 enchant weapon epic past life, that will be 'like' 4 deadly. I also have 9% DS past life and 3 of colors of the queen. However, I will switch to fast healing (I only have 1 past life there) in the early levels.

I am thinking of doing level-ups in STR but maybe they should be in Wisdom or CON instead.

The gearless
8/6/6 Druid/Wizard/Monk
Lawful Neutral Warforged




Level Order


1. Monk. . . . . . 6. Wizard . . . . 11. Monk. . . . . .16. Wizard
2. Wizard. . . . . 7. Monk . . . . . 12. Druid. . . . . 17. Druid
3. Druid. . . . . .8. Druid. . . . . 13. Wizard. . . . .18. Druid
4. Monk. . . . . . 9. Druid . . . . .14. Wizard . . . . 19. Druid
5. Monk. . . . . .10. Monk . . . . . 15. Wizard. . . . .20. Druid




Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 15. . . .+3. . . .4: STR
Dexterity . . . 15. . . .+4. . . .8: STR
Constitution. . 14. . . .+5. . . 12: STR
Intelligence. . 14. . . .+4. . . 16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . 14. . . .+3. . . 20: STR
Charisma. . . . .6. . . .+3. . .




Feats


.1. . . . : Stunning Fist
.1 Monk . : Two Weapon Fighting
.2 Wizard : Mental Toughness
.3. . . . : Past Life: Monk
.4 Monk . : Deflect Arrows
.5 Monk . : Path of Harmonious Balance
.6. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
.8 Druid. : Wild Shape 1: Wolf
.9. . . . : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
11 Monk . : Resilience
12. . . . : Master of Forms
15. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
15 Wizard : Improved Mental Toughness
17 Druid. : Wild Shape 1: Bear
18. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
20 Druid. : Wild Shape 2: Winter Wolf

[Saekee]

Thanks to suggestions from PMs and elsewhere, and my own angst as to what would be ideal, I am considering the following:

nude run
10/7/3 Druid/Monk/Wizard
Lawful Neutral Warforged
(I want the PL in druid.)

I am jumping up to 5 druid and 3 monk early for healing spells and fists of light. 7 monk for Wholeness of Body.
3 wizard comes late but that gets me blur and invisi from the archmage enhancement cores as well as some stuff from EK (mage armor, shield, eldritch damage). I would take it earlier but that would force Improved TWF way back to level12, then master of forms to 15 due to qualifying BAB.

I am planning to take tier 5 Harper: free eschew materials, free extend, more SP, 12 MP, righteousness on attacks for DR, etc. The other option is tier 5 Shintao but I think Harper fits this build better given its caster/melee mix. Another option is tier 5 Henshin and use SCEWL and void strike but it would have poor DPS.

I feel like stunning fist is a wash since my DC will be too low. this leaves a possible level 1 feat, a level 6 feat, and a wizard bonus feat (two free feats if I go harper). Any suggestions?


nude run
10/7/3 Druid/Monk/Wizard
Lawful Neutral Warforged


Stats
36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 15 +3 4: WIS
Dexterity 15 +4 8: WIS
Constitution 14 +5 12: WIS
Intelligence 14 +4 16: WIS
Wisdom 14 +3 20: WIS
Charisma 6 +3




Feats


1 : Stunning Fist
1 Monk : Two Weapon Fighting
3 : Past Life: Monk
3 Druid : Wild Shape 1: Wolf
5 Monk : Resilience
6 : Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning
7 Monk : Path of Harmonious Balance
8 Druid : Wild Shape 1: Bear
9 : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
11 Monk : Deflect Arrows
12 : Master of Forms
12 Wizard : Mental Toughness
15 : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
18 : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18 Druid : Wild Shape 2: Winter Wolf




Spells


Wizard
1. Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Nightshield, Protection from Evil
2. Owl's Wisdom, Cat's Grace
Druid
1. Lesser Vigor, Ram's Might, Jump, Pass Without Trace, Maul
2. Flame Blade, Resist Energy, Bear's Endurance, Lesser Restoration, Barkskin
3. Cure Moderate Wounds, Protection from Energy, Vigor, Sleet Storm
4. Cure Serious Wounds, Freedom of Movement, Enveloping Swarm, Flame Strike
5. Cure Critical Wounds, Wall of Fire, Greater Vigor


Enhancements (80 AP)


Warforged (13 AP)
• Improved Fortification, Warforged Constitution, Improved Fortification II, Warforged Constitution II, Improved Fortification III
1. Healer's Friend III


Ninja Spy (11 AP)
• Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training, Shadow Veil
1. Sneak Attack Training, Acrobatic II
2. Sneak Attack Training, Fists of Iron


Eldritch Knight (Wizard) (10 AP)
• Eldritch Strike, Spellsword: Frost
1. Improved Mage Armor III, Toughness II
2. Improved Shield III


Archmage (6 AP)
• Invisibility, Blur
1. Energy of the Scholar II


Shintao (3 AP)
• Bastion of Purity
1. Deft Strikes I


Harper Agent (37 AP)
• Agent of Good I, Intelligence, Agent of Good II, Intelligence
1. Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness III
2. Magical Endurance III, Versatile Adept III
3. Highly Skilled II, Versatile Adept III
4. Throat Dagger I, Vigor of Life, Versatile Adept III, Magic of Austerity
5. Harper Enchantment: Righteousness, Versatile Adept III, Magic of Patience

[Saekee]

14/3/3 Wizard/Monk/Paladin
Lawful Good Halfling
14/3/3 Wizard/Paladin/Monk

The choices

• Hafling: maximized dragonmarked halfling for healing until I get to PM forms; then I swap out the feat
• Monk levels: no brainer for a gearless melee. 3 monk levels early get me fists of light. Fists of light finishers such as the blur are nice defensively
• Paladin: 3 Paladin allows for a huge boost to saves which this build needs, given that it will not have resistance gear. Free cleave and light damage on hit, however little (it all adds up...). This lets me take Power attack over Resilience.
• Wizard: 14 wiz for self buffing. Archmage invisi, EK buffs. Option to use Wraith form. I plan to make this a Shirardi nuker once I get to epics, so I might use my free +5 heart to LR out the monk or pally levels for FvS (for just rewards) or add a sorc level in place (and throw everything into INT).
• Harper tree: free eschew, free extend, 15 melee & spell power at level 12 along with DR breaking righteous weapons, bonus to hit & damage vs evil, enchant weapon, SP bonus, etc. A huge win for this build.

Playstyle:
levels 1-12: normal healing using EPL fast healing 2x; halfing dragonmarks, Pally LoH, Fists of light
levels 12-13+: undead shroud. Can drop shroud and use pally LoH sometimes; switch fast healing to Colors of the Queen 3x

Past life boosts:
Epic:

• 2 PL primal, fast healing until PM form
• 3 PL Colors of the Queen (once in PM form)
• 9% doublestrike,
• +1 Enchant weapon
• +1 Brace (3 PRR, +1 saves)

Heroic:

• 3 monk: +3 hit and damage
• 3 rogue: +3 sneak, +6 saves vs traps
• 2 ranger: +4 elemental resists

Projected key stats at level 20:

• Over 500 HP: 50 from enhancements, 220 from CON, 55 PL: primal et al
• PRR: Greater mountain stance: 15; EK 10; PM 10; SD: 25; brace EPL= 63 (could take iron skin to make it 75)
• Unarmed attack: 2d6 + 1d8 light (x MP) + 3d4 EK elemental + 5 Power attack + monk: elemental strikes, fist of light/darkness, also Pally smites/cleave and also 3x Colors of the Queen; +3 dmg monk pl; +1 dmg enchant weapon EPL + Harper all tiers & cores damage boosts (-+4 & righteousness + bonuses against evil) + level drain on vorpal
• Spell points: no idea but free extend, free eschew + mental toughness/Improved mental toughness, Harper +100
• saves bonus: halfing +1; brace +1, pally divine grace (+6 for 23 CHA): +8 total, +6 more for traps
• Miss chance from some dodge, displacement, decent AC

Level Order
1. Monk 6. Paladin 11. Wizard 16. Wizard
2. Wizard 7. Paladin 12. Wizard 17. Wizard
3. Monk 8. Wizard 13. Wizard 18. Wizard
4. Monk 9. Wizard 14. Wizard 19. Wizard
5. Paladin 10. Wizard 15. Wizard 20. Wizard




Stats
36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 13 +3 4: CON
Dexterity 15 +4 8: CON
Constitution 14 +5 12: CON
Intelligence 14 +5 16: CON
Wisdom 13 +3 20: CON
Charisma 14 +3










Feats


1 : Least Dragonmark: Healing
1 Monk : Two Weapon Fighting
2 Wizard : Maximize Spell
3 : Past Life: Monk
3 Monk : Power Attack
4 Monk : Path of Harmonious Balance
5 Deity : Follower of: Sovereign Host
6 : Adept of Forms
9 : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
11 Wizard : Empower Spell
12 : Master of Forms
15 : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
16 Wizard : Quicken Spell
18 : Greater Two Weapon Fighting




Enhancements (80 AP)


Eldritch Knight (Wizard) (9 AP)
• Eldritch Strike, Spellsword: Acid
1. Improved Mage Armor III, Toughness I
2. Improved Shield III


Harper Agent (37 AP)
• Agent of Good I, Charisma, Agent of Good II, Charisma
1. Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness III
2. Magical Endurance III, Versatile Adept III
3. Versatile Adept III, Intelligence
4. Throat Dagger I, Versatile Adept III, Magic of Austerity, Intelligence
5. Harper Enchantment: Righteousness, Versatile Adept III, Magic of Patience


Pale Master (15 AP)
• Dark Reaping, Zombie Form, Vampire Form
1. Deathless Vigor III, Negative Energy Conduit III
2. Bone Armor III


Sacred Defender (6 AP)
• Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
1. Durable Defense III, Saves Boost I


Knight of the Chalice (11 AP)
• Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven
1. Extra Turning III, Extra Smite I
2. Exalted Cleave I


Archmage (5 AP)
• Invisibility
Energy of the scholar II


Halfling (1 AP)
• Halfling Luck



I will manipulate my enhancements often for what would be the most advantageous