Sneaky Boulder: Ultra-survivable Centered Thief Acrobat

[Qezuzu]

This is the result of the "Roulette Tank" thread I made recently. While I wouldn't call this build a "tank", due to inability to perpetually tank things like Legendary Sor'jek or pt2 LE Shroud bosses, it is still incredibly survivable, almost effortlessly so with incredibly high dodge, PRR, defensive boosts, and healing.

Build Features:
-45% dodge
-Up to 173 PRR (not counting Blitz)
-Rotating Abilities: Improved Uncanny Dodge (+50 dodge and dodge cap), Meld Into Darkness (+100 dodge and dodge cap), Spinning Staff Wall (+50 PRR), and Thick-Skinned (-25% damage taken). Very high combined uptime.
-up to 165 Healing Amp: SF pots heal for ~660

-69.43% double strike; 94.43% doublestrike using Quick-strike (83.3% uptime). In air-stance, this improves to 72% and 97% (nearly max!)
-Melee power, fort bypass... yes, you can kill stuff too.

Recommended Past Lives:
9x Epic Divine
3x Epic Martial
3x PDK
3x Paladin

+36 PRR is the main thing. I throw in Paladin because +30 heal amp is very nice and by far the strongest of the heroic past life feats, get your Paladin lives while doing your PDK ones.

If you are using Legendary Greensteel to boost max dodge further (more information is needed on this), you may want to consider 3x Shadar-ki lives in order to actually achieve this dodge.

Race:
Human. Halfling can get you another +3 dodge, but you'd have to give up some PRR, a feat and damage boost, it's not worth it imo.

Class:
18rog/2mnk. Take Monk at lvl2 and lvl8.

Stats:
Enough STR to qualify for Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enough INT to qualify for Combat Expertise; more if want to get more skills or if you're using KTA.
Rest in DEX and CON, with emphasis on DEX of course. All level ups into DEX

Feats:
1: Combat Expertise
1 (Human): Two Handed Fighting
2 (Monk): Dodge
3: Sneak of Shadows Alternative: Completionist, Quick Draw, Toughness
6: Adept of Forms
8 (Monk): Precision Alternative: Power Attack
9: Improved Two Handed Fighting
12: IC: Bludgeon
15: Master of Forms
18: Grandmaster of Forms
21: Overwhelming Critical
24: Greater Two Handed Fighting
26: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27: Epic Damage Reduction
28: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting Alternative: Elusive Target
29: Dire Charge Alternative: Deific Warding
30: Improved Sneak Attack
30: Scion of the Astral Plane


Enhancements:



Not shown: Human Damage Boost.

Alternatives:

Drop everything in Harper tree to take Spell Traps, which are useful in some situations.

Drop Harper and Ninja Spy/Shintao to take more abilities from Assassin tree. Execute, Nimbelness, and Weakening Strikes are what you want. Weakening Strikes is a -20% damage (or so) debuff on mobs that rerquires a poison attack. Not sure if it works on bosses, never used it.

Epic Destiny:




Twists:
Standing with Stone (Tier 4 GMoF) Alternative: Sense Weakness, Wild Weapons (Fury)
Meld into Darkness (Tier 3 SD) Alternative: Malicious Weapons (Fury)
Unearthly Reactions (Tier 1 Magister)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 PA)
A Dance of Flowers (Tier 1 GMoF) <- If you do not have epic completionist, this is the optional one

Gear:

Bold is gear that is probably best-in-slot.

Armor: Outfit of the Celestial Sage (Globe of True Imperial Blood, +15 Heal)
Necklace: Legendary Pendant of the Warrior's Focus (+2 Luck)
Belt: Evasive Belt of Stunning (+14% dodge, +15 stunning DC) Ideal: additionally Insightful CON +6/7
Gloves: Burgular's Gloves of Healing Amplification (+6 Ins. DEX, +19 Open Lock, +57 Heal Amp) Ideal: Devotion or +15 DEX Gloves of Heal Amp (w +7 Ins. DEX).
Trinket: Epic Litany (Fear Immunity, Sonic Resistance)
Helm: Sightless (Draconic Soul Gem, +8 Resistance) Altnerative: Dragon Masque would free up bracers, but you'd need to put CON somewhere else and you lose some melee power.
Boots: Legendary Boots of the Devil Commander (+40 False Life)
Cloak: Mysterious Cloak (+2 Ins. and +2 Spooky INT) Notable swap: EE Jeweled Cloak. This thing is great! Get one!
Goggles: Unconcious Range LGS Goggles Alternative: LGS HP+DEX skills item (net +58 HP)
Bracers: Epic Ethereal Bracers (+8 INT, +15 Spot)
Ring 1: Seal of House Avithoul Ideally: Ring of Deceit (+20 Vitality)
Ring 2: Strange Tidings (+2 Ins. CON, +250 SP)
Quiver: Epic Quiver of Alacrity

I would really like the +3 Max Dodge from LGS set bonus, but I'm not sure where I could put it. Goggles are more or less free, but I don't really have another free slot. I suppose I could simply have it as a swap option for when I want to reduce that 5% chance to get hit while using Improved Uncanny Dodge, e.g. Sor'jek or pt2 in Shroud. The problem then is actually filling up that dodge, which will probably require a twist, Water Stance, Dodge+Insightful Dodge belt, or 3x Shadarki lives.

At any rate, it will be a little while before I can cleanse a LGS item.

Weapons:

Epic Bone Crusher is easy to get and might be the best general weapon. Epic Elemental Bloom might be better?

Epic Bone Crusher is better than Sireth, if Pulverizer still does not work with Sireth. Not sure on this. Never actually got around to getting a Sireth, I was always Assassin back when people still ran CitW.

Sireth does have the ability to break the DR of the kitty in Legendary Shroud, however if you really don't want to run CitW like me, Dreampiercer from FoT also does this AND it's made of crystal, allowing it to be safely used on Oozes. Small note: Epic Bone Crusher is stone, meaning it's safe on rusties.

You need a Chaotic weapon for book at end of Legendary Shroud, and it helps with the Marut in Tempest's Spine. You can slot anything with a red slot with a Chaos augment.

Epic Light Unending is good for general DR breaking.

These four weapons (eBC, Sireth/Dreampiercer, Chaos, eLU) are all you need for everything. Oh also get a Shuriken, it doesn't really matter which.

LGS weapons are not looking very compelling, however the triple positive 1000 Temp HP proc looks interesting, depending on the specifics (how long the HP lasts, proc rate). I also want the specifics of LGS Salt, i.e. the proc rate, magnitude of the slow and the internal cooldown. Radiance weapon also, maybe? Depending on proc rate.

Anything that's not positive means no devotion, but SF pots are better than Cocoon anyway. At any rate, I'm just gonna wait for all the information.

Selected Breakdowns:

PRR:
40 Earth Stance
38 Armor
36 Past Lives
26 Boots
20 Improved Combat Mastery
10 Epic Damage Reduction
2 Tome
1 Mythic
= 173

Dodge Cap:
25 Base
11 Acrobat Stuff
4 Astral Plane
2 ship
=42
3 Ninja Spy
=45
3 Legendary Greensteel
=48

Dodge:
14 item
6 Uncanny Dodge passive
5 Spinning Staff Wall
4 Astral Plane
3 Unearthly Reactions
3 Ninja Spy
3 Shadow Dodge
3 Dodge feat
1 haste
= 42
3 Ninja Spy
= 45
3 Shadari-ki past lives
= 48

HP
Uhh with Yugo, Tensers, and 5 primal lives it's over 1.2k. LGS would boost this further.

Heal Amp
57 gloves
45 Cloak30 Paladin lives
20 Ship
10 Shintao
=162

[brzytki]

Nice build.

Personally though, if i were building it, i'd drop Shintao tree almost entirely except for the first core and put those APs in Assassin tree.

Going from 180 PRR to 160 PRR is a loss of ~2,7% in damage reduction but we only go down 15 points not 20 so even less of a loss. Other APs in Shintao are rather wasted so i'd drop them as well. Now put those 10 APs in assassin tree to max Venomed Blades (which scale with 200% MP which in LD is big), Shiv for bluff-attack to get more SA in, maybe Crit Mastery, finally 4th core that gives both defense (up to 10 dodge so you can drop Dodge feat and free up a twist and take something else in their place) and offense (5 MP) and Execute which with all that MP and its scaling with 400% MP would be beast. Since the check for the additional 500 damage from Execute seems to trigger after the base damage is done, you can easilyhit it when mobs have more than 30% HP left and not be afraid of wasting it.

[unbongwah]

If you really want to emphasize survivability, I would consider the classic rog 13 / monk 6 / <splash> 1 split.

Downsides: give up 3rd rog bonus feat, at least 3d6 SA, +20% doublestrike, and a bunch of skill pts.
Upsides: 2 extra feats (3rd monk bonus + Adept of Forms free), Shadow Veil for 25% Incorporeality.

I'd use the extra feats to squeeze in Power Atk & Cleave (probably GC as well) then rejigger LD so you can switch between PA & CE, depending on whether you want more DPS or higher AC/PRR.

SDK is also an option, but it has the same issue as halfling, namely it costs 11 APs to get +2d6 SA and +3% Dodge; on an AP-constrained build like this, that's actually a lot of pts.

[Dandonk]

I've been looking for a stick build to try out, after all the changes. This looks really nice.

[Lence]

If you really want to emphasize survivability, I would consider the classic rog 13 / monk 6 / <splash> 1 split..

I also like the Rog 13/Pali 4/Monk 3 Split. Same draw backs as yours, plus more feat investment into Adept/master/gmaster of forms, but the sacred defender/Pali levels and mountain stance add alot to the build IMO, aside from the just the PRR. Its a fun build. Although, I have been really tempted to switch over to try a 14 pali / 5 Rog / 1 monk build just to try the holysword/zeal on a stick build recently.

[Qezuzu]

Nice build.

Personally though, if i were building it, i'd drop Shintao tree almost entirely except for the first core and put those APs in Assassin tree.

Going from 180 PRR to 160 PRR is a loss of ~2,7% in damage reduction but we only go down 15 points not 20 so even less of a loss. Other APs in Shintao are rather wasted so i'd drop them as well. Now put those 10 APs in assassin tree to max Venomed Blades (which scale with 200% MP which in LD is big), Shiv for bluff-attack to get more SA in, maybe Crit Mastery, finally 4th core that gives both defense (up to 10 dodge so you can drop Dodge feat and free up a twist and take something else in their place) and offense (5 MP) and Execute which with all that MP and its scaling with 400% MP would be beast. Since the check for the additional 500 damage from Execute seems to trigger after the base damage is done, you can easilyhit it when mobs have more than 30% HP left and not be afraid of wasting it.

Thing is that 2.7% damage translates to an additional 70, 80 damage taken.

After I get the LGS HP bonus I will probably do this, though. Especially after I get my last four divine past lives.

Also: does anyone know if Weakening Strikes works on bosses?

If you really want to emphasize survivability, I would consider the classic rog 13 / monk 6 / <splash> 1 split.

Downsides: give up 3rd rog bonus feat, at least 3d6 SA, +20% doublestrike, and a bunch of skill pts.
Upsides: 2 extra feats (3rd monk bonus + Adept of Forms free), Shadow Veil for 25% Incorporeality.

I'd use the extra feats to squeeze in Power Atk & Cleave (probably GC as well) then rejigger LD so you can switch between PA & CE, depending on whether you want more DPS or higher AC/PRR.

SDK is also an option, but it has the same issue as halfling, namely it costs 11 APs to get +2d6 SA and +3% Dodge; on an AP-constrained build like this, that's actually a lot of pts.

I also like the Rog 13/Pali 4/Monk 3 Split. Same draw backs as yours, plus more feat investment into Adept/master/gmaster of forms, but the sacred defender/Pali levels and mountain stance add alot to the build IMO, aside from the just the PRR. Its a fun build. Although, I have been really tempted to switch over to try a 14 pali / 5 Rog / 1 monk build just to try the holysword/zeal on a stick build recently.

Not a fan of going below 18 rogue. Not only do you lose a whopping 20% doublestrike, you also lose 2 dodge cap.

I'm not really going for max survivability here, which is why I didn't take elusive target, either.

[Qezuzu]

Behold:

Dodge

[Ayseifn]

There has to be a better way to rejig the feats, needing 13 int/str at level 1 is a bit rough.

If you really want to emphasize survivability, I would consider the classic rog 13 / monk 6 / <splash> 1 split.

Downsides: give up 3rd rog bonus feat, at least 3d6 SA, +20% doublestrike, and a bunch of skill pts.
Upsides: 2 extra feats (3rd monk bonus + Adept of Forms free), Shadow Veil for 25% Incorporeality.

I'd use the extra feats to squeeze in Power Atk & Cleave (probably GC as well) then rejigger LD so you can switch between PA & CE, depending on whether you want more DPS or higher AC/PRR.

SDK is also an option, but it has the same issue as halfling, namely it costs 11 APs to get +2d6 SA and +3% Dodge; on an AP-constrained build like this, that's actually a lot of pts.

Cleaves aren't very good on a build with so much doublestrike and SA damage. Not sure what if anything in the Acrobat tree affects momentum swing though nor if dire charge does either so it could still work out better but I am dubious without real numbers.

[unbongwah]

Not a fan of going below 18 rogue. Not only do you lose a whopping 20% doublestrike, you also lose 2 dodge cap.

I'm not really going for max survivability here, which is why I didn't take elusive target, either.

Fair enough, but then sacrificing Power Atk and the Cleave chain (and Lay Waste & Momentum Swing) makes less sense to me on a build with Dire Charge, because -

Cleaves aren't very good on a build with so much doublestrike and SA damage. Not sure what if anything in the Acrobat tree affects momentum swing though nor if dire charge does either so it could still work out better but I am dubious without real numbers.

- Dire Charge is an AoE stun: so charge, spam cleaves on stunned mobs (who take extra dmg inc. SAs), mop up what's left. Use regular atks (plus Momentum Swing) on lone survivors to max out single-target DPS from doublestrike bonuses (25% Quick Strike + 20% lvl 18 core + 10% Lightning Mace = 50% DS).

[Qezuzu]

Fair enough, but then sacrificing Power Atk and the Cleave chain (and Lay Waste & Momentum Swing) makes less sense to me on a build with Dire Charge, because -

- Dire Charge is an AoE stun: so charge, spam cleaves on stunned mobs (who take extra dmg inc. SAs), mop up what's left. Use regular atks (plus Momentum Swing) on lone survivors to max out single-target DPS from doublestrike bonuses (25% Quick Strike + 20% lvl 18 core + 10% Lightning Mace = 50% DS).

As nice as cleaves would be, the question is: where would they fit?

Sure, I can drop Precision for Power Attack to get the pre-req, but the only feats I could imagine dropping are Epic Damage Reduction and Improved Sneak Attack... both are pretty major losses.

AoE DPS that good is simply something that's beyond the scope of this build.

That said, I have dropped Human Healing Amp I and rearranged stuff just a tad in order to take Acrobat's Improved Glancing Blows. With something like an LGS staff which does a lot of proc damage, it's (probably) decent AoE damage, especially if you also take Fury's Malicious Weapons.

[Qezuzu]

Few more notes:

Strange Tidings is fixed, which is a very nice buff for me as it means more reliable sneak attacks (it does stack with Improved Deception). Strange Tidings+Seal of House Avithoul/Ring of Deceit is pretty much the way to go for any rogue.

Just looking at the patterns, I'm going to assume that double Escalation items will give me +5 dodge cap. Which is perfect, because I currently have 45 dodge cap. Once I get those items and cleanse one (which will be awhile, but oh well), and get a belt with Dodge and Insightful Dodge on it, I'll be good to go.

It's a preference, I guess, either not bothering with the double item bonus, or going for the HP, or achieving true god-mode while using Uncanny Dodge or Hood of Unrest.

I said cloak is best but that conflicts with EE Jeweled Cloak. You're not really in god-mode unless you're invulnerable to physical AND magical damage. Boots are probably better, I can swap them, drop the little bit of PRR (which doesn't matter if you're not getting hit) and then use Uncanny Dodge. If I can somehow get Deadly somewhere else, I would drop Epic Ethereal Bracers instead and have that dodge cap permanently, but I'm not seeing how I could do that (Dragon Masque maybe? But I'd have to get CON somewhere else then, and I'd lose a bit of melee power. Other option would be Sanctified Gages, but I seriously don't want to lose the heal amp and eventually that will be where Insightful DEX +6/+7 goes).

I now have KtA. I dropped Improved Defensive Roll and Sweeping Strikes, as well as 5 PRR from Earth Stance. Mob damage got lowered (I don't know by how much) in LE raids so I'm comfortable giving up that much, plus I get 15 HP from Harper anyway.

IDR isn't that great when I already have such high PRR and dodge, and when mobs hit so hard anyway. It's only useful for when I'm being super reckless in EE ToEE or whatever and not really paying attention.

Sweeping Strikes... used to love this ability, but the points are better spent elsewhere. First off it's 100% outclassed by Dire Charge in every way. Second off I don't have the DC, I'm not pumping DEX as much and I'm not pure Rogue. It rarely trips anything, and when it does it's only for 2 seconds anyway. It's simply not worth the AP.

With KtA my Dire Charge DC is 87, 90 with Yugo+Tenser and 91 with remnant pots. Pretty good imo, and I'm only using a +7 augment right now.

AP looks like this now. Not sure how it can be improved upon, now. Perhaps some would drop the PRR to take more in Assassin tree, or for spell traps, but I think it's good as is.

[Qezuzu]

Updated the OP. I got a +6 Ins. DEX gloves of Heal amp! Prefix is... open lock. At least it'll save me from having to swap an item at locked stuff.

[Morroiel]

What kinda single target dps are you looking at with this build? Do you have a bruntsmash video?

What's your opinion of dropping combat expertise, sneak of shadows, and precision/epic dr for cleave, gcleave, and power attack?

Thanks for your time!

[HuneyMunster]

Weapons:

Epic Bone Crusher is easy to get and might be the best general weapon. Epic Elemental Bloom might be better?

A higher dps version might be 1 Druid, 1 monk instead of 2 Monk

Rams Might (2 dmg)and Shillelagh (1.0 [W]) if using Epic Elemental Bloom or other wooden weapons.

But, would lose 2 dodge from Monk level 2, 1 Martial Art Feat, 10prr from Iron Skin, 3 Max Dodge and 3 Reflex save from Agility. Would gain extra spell points and magical training.

The spare action points could be spent on extra melee power from Harper or elsewhere.

What kinda single target dps are you looking at with this build? Do you have a bruntsmash video?

What's your opinion of dropping combat expertise, sneak of shadows, and precision/epic dr for cleave, gcleave, and power attack?

Thanks for your time!

Biggest problem with Cleaving is that from what Ive heard is it is a dps loss. This is due to the doublestrike and attack speed of staffs which cleaves are not effected by.

Doesn't, mean you can't take cleaves, but I would still keep Precision for Sneak Attacks against fortified monsters. You can still cleave without Power Attack active.

[MalarKan]

Btw, i forgot to thank you for this build which gave me an idea. i pretty much tried to addapt all of what youve come up with to a pure rogue version.

I havent played in a fw months due work schedule, but ill post the following.



Not many big numbers, not an optimal build, evidently less survivable than the one in this original post, but it is still very survivable.... at least to solo some content like challenges for example. The dodges are really decent, almost god mode once the assasin 4th core gets enough stacks and i hit improved uncanny dodge. Clicking a cocoon whenever is necesary, a spinning staff wall in between, a SF pot if things are turning ugly, and if things are still going south, just hit the panic button called Meld into darkness, and after all that, improved uncanny dodge should be on reset.

Aaaannyways. Thnx again, cheers!

[JDCrowell]

So I'm definitely curious about trying this build. I know there have bee a lot of changes, but I've always wanted to try a Q-staff build for flavor. My only question is, what is a good staff to use while leveling? I'm used to crafting leveling gear and weapons, but the new Cannith crafting system takes some getting used to, to find stuff that works with undead and getting all the ingredients.

[Qezuzu]

So I'm definitely curious about trying this build. I know there have bee a lot of changes, but I've always wanted to try a Q-staff build for flavor. My only question is, what is a good staff to use while leveling? I'm used to crafting leveling gear and weapons, but the new Cannith crafting system takes some getting used to, to find stuff that works with undead and getting all the ingredients.

You can craft one or take a look at the named one at http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Quarterstaffs

Chieftain's Spear, Arlyn's Staff, heroic Elemental Bloom, Souleater, and Petrifying Shadow Staff are all pretty good.

[MalarKan]

So I'm definitely curious about trying this build. I know there have bee a lot of changes, but I've always wanted to try a Q-staff build for flavor. My only question is, what is a good staff to use while leveling? I'm used to crafting leveling gear and weapons, but the new Cannith crafting system takes some getting used to, to find stuff that works with undead and getting all the ingredients.

Helloooo. In my experience, for loe leveling i mostly just used any staff that would siguationally need via Cannith crafting (tho due to recent changes and im just coming back to the game, i have no idea how it works now). Buuut , pretty much,Qstaff-wise, mu experience is "level fast till level 12 for greensteel weapons (acid3 earthgrab, pos3 with raise dead for undead/skelly beating; then rush to level 14 for BREEZE. That is the best Qstaff an aceobat could ask for in terms of leveling. It has a blind effect, a knockdown effect, and the best crit range u can get in a staff (18-20 x2 base), only drawback is that its Dex based for damage, but is still not bad for a rogue, since while leveling most mobs onces blinded dont survive long enough thanks to sneak attacks and acrobat double strikes. So, Breeze in some cases was bettwr than any Rahl's might which u get at level 18, so setting a group for Heroic abbot raid farming should be in your schedule if you want a nice staff for leveling. Trust me, Breeze is so good that you will end up wishing it had an epic version cause you will use it all the way from lvl 14 to 20.

[Saekee]

The sneak speed enhancements stack (probably not WAI but no dev words on this yet). So if you are willing to drop the 3 AP that you are putting in Ninja spy on acrobatics into faster sneaking, this guy will really scuttle along in stealth mode.
Try it, it is a hoot. I have tested this on an SDK stacking ranger (DWS), ninja and assassin faster sneak buffs and it is hilarious.

[Saekee]

minor note--I found out that Sweeping strikes does not break stealth and invisibility. Fun times! Must be programmed a bit like Eldritch strike that has the same effect on stealth