Devs: Time to change Epic Explorer areas to all be in 20-30 range

[Kylstrem]

I don't see why the Epic Explorer areas have to be limited on the upper or lower range.

I hit 29 and realized I hadn't touched Gianthold yet. Went out there and the XP seemed very low... checked the level range and it was inexplicably set to levels 24 to 28.

These are areas that guildies get together in while waiting for other quests to start or more guildies to log on... but then you have to worry about the level range.

In addition, you do have a huge OCD contingent as your player base and they want to get all the S/R/Es, but some of the lower level ones (Kings Forest, Underdark, Schyndrrydyddndyrndnryn, Demonweb) get out-leveled really fast.

I don't see anything over-powered by letting level 29-30s run with level 20 players out there. Only brand new, first life level 20s, played by new players would benefit, and at this point, I'd think you'd want that type of player to be able to group with as many people as possible.

Not asking for actual Quests to change (but that wouldn't be a bad idea for the BB/Elite Streak).

Get this done... should be easy... just go change the lower variable to 20 and the upper variable to 30 for every Epic Explorer area.

Thanks in Advance.

[FranOhmsford]

I don't see why the Epic Explorer areas have to be limited on the upper or lower range.

I hit 29 and realized I hadn't touched Gianthold yet. Went out there and the XP seemed very low... checked the level range and it was inexplicably set to levels 24 to 28.

These are areas that guildies get together in while waiting for other quests to start or more guildies to log on... but then you have to worry about the level range.

In addition, you do have a huge OCD contingent as your player base and they want to get all the S/R/Es, but some of the lower level ones (Kings Forest, Underdark, Schyndrrydyddndyrndnryn, Demonweb) get out-leveled really fast.

I don't see anything over-powered by letting level 29-30s run with level 20 players out there. Only brand new, first life level 20s, played by new players would benefit, and at this point, I'd think you'd want that type of player to be able to group with as many people as possible.

Not asking for actual Quests to change (but that wouldn't be a bad idea for the BB/Elite Streak).

Get this done... should be easy... just go change the lower variable to 20 and the upper variable to 30 for every Epic Explorer area.

Thanks in Advance.

Epic GH can be entered by Lvl 20s - I don't know where you're getting 24 from.

I would like King's Forest to allow 20-26. I know it was set for 25 when that was cap - Time to push that up as a 5 level range is small for a Slayer.

[Vellrad]

Its not easy.
Its level +/- certain value, that depends on level.
Tampering with it would probably cause 5 million bugs.

[nibel]

I would be ok with the wilderness zones having no upper cap at all. If someone want to farm 7500 kills in a level 11 zone at cap, let them do it. Slayer zones (with the exception of Orcharde and Thunderholme, and both have a cap of 30 anyway) are bad xp/min anyway, all it can do is making some people who actually like this play style happier.

[FranOhmsford]

I would be ok with the wilderness zones having no upper cap at all. If someone want to farm 7500 kills in a level 11 zone at cap, let them do it. Slayer zones (with the exception of Orcharde and Thunderholme, and both have a cap of 30 anyway) are bad xp/min anyway, all it can do is making some people who actually like this play style happier.

I don't know about no upper cap - That may be asking too much.

But I've always thought a lot of the slayer lvl ranges were a bit off.

Korthos
Currently 1-3
Change to 1-4 {Then players who've still got MP to run can finish off their Slayer without staying at Lvl 3}.

Cerulean Hills
Currently 1-4
Change to 1-5 {The Quests are Lvl 5 on E-BB, The Slayer should also max at 5}.

Waterworks
Currently 1-6
Fine as is.

Tangleroot Gorge
Currently 2-7
Change to 3-8 {The last two Quests are Lvl 9 on E-BB but virtually everyone does them by Lvl 8 at the latest anyway}

3 Barrel Cove
Currently 3-8
Change to 3-9 {Scoundrel's Run and Old Grey Garl are Lvl 9 on E-BB}.

Searing Heights
Currently 4-10
Fine as is

Sorrowdusk Isle
Currently 4-11
Change to 6-13 {Who's going into Sorrowdusk Slayer at Lvl 4?}

The Red Fens
Currently 6-13
Change to 7-14 {Again there's no reason to enter the Fens at Lvl 6}

Ataraxia
Currently 7-14
Fine as is

Restless Isles
Currently 7-14
Change to 8-15 {No way is a Lvl 7 Rogue opening those doors with DCs of 47-50! My Lvl 14 Sorc couldn't knock em! Oh and a 1st Lifer isn't completing HiPS till Lvl 11/12 anyway!}.

Sands of Menechtarun
Currently 8-15
Change to 8-16 {Completing Gnolls is easy enough but getting Undead and Scorrow even to 1500 before you're hard capped 17 is a pain in the neck!}.

Gianthold
Currently 10-18
Change to 12-20 {If I'm not mistaken you don't even get the message that Cydonie wants to speak to you till you take Lvl 12! Oh and 20 would allow Players to use this as a set up for after an ER.}

Orchard
Currently 10-19
Change to 12-20 {Again there's no reason to enter the Orchard at Lvl 10. Again allowing Lvl 20s to get full XP would help out ERs if they set it up beforehand}.

Wheloon
Currently 11-20 {You what? The Quests are Lvl 16!}
Change to 14-22 {Iconics may want to start at Lvl 14 soft capped}

Vale
Currently 12-21 {and I know some people start slaying in Vale as early as 12}
Fine as is.

SubT
Currently 14-21
Change to 16-25 {Accept the change to the low end to allow for more leeway at the high end please}

Reaver's Refuge Slayers
Currently 13-22
Change to 15-24

The High Road
Currently 14-23
Fine as is

Devil Battlefield
Currently 15-24
Fine as is

Cannith Manufactory
Currently 15-24
Change to 16-25

Cannith Raid Zones
Currently 16-24
Change to 18-30 {Come on...Give us some leeway here Devs!}

The Storm Horns
Currently 16-24
Change to 16-25

The King's Forest
Currently 20-25
Change to 19-26 {Yes allow Lvl 19s to enter}

The Underdark
Currently 20-26
Change to 20-28

Schindylrynn
Currently 20-26
Change to 20-28

The Demonweb
Currently 20-27
Change to 20-30

The High Road/GH/Wheloon/3BC/Storm Horns Epic
Currently varies
Change to 20-30

Orchard of the Macabre Epic
Currently 20-33 {I thought we were stopping at Cap 30 Devs?}
Change to 20-30

Thunderholm
Currently 25-33 {Again what's with the 33?}
Change to 20-30

[Kylstrem]

20-30 seems a bit much.

.

What is your reasoning for it seeming "a bit much"?

What is bad about them being 20-30?

[CThruTheEgo]

/signed.

[Lord_Jaffacake]

Signed - good suggestion.

I've always been a fan of explorer S/R/E to squeeze out xps between levels and they are good for promoting grouping. It's a just a shame some of the current explorers we have are really nice, but we don't get to see them long enough as we out level them too quickly.

While on subject of explorers, Devs is there any chance you could add in missing epic explorers like Red Fens or Sands? We do have epic quests there after all...

[FranOhmsford]

What is your reasoning for it seeming "a bit much"?

What is bad about them being 20-30?

I changed my mind about that - See my second post.

[nibel]

I don't know about no upper cap - That may be asking too much.

I don't see why not. Once you get powerful enough for the mobs to provide no challenge to you, raising from 750 to 1500 kills is a very long chore (Orchade being the exception). Is it really problematic that a level 12+ character want to get 1500 kills on Tangleroot and get the full 8500 XP from it? Basically any at-level questing, even on normal, will award around this value when you consider the usual bonus (conquest, ransack, etc).

Slayer is time-consuming. That is the trade-off.

Restless Isles
Currently 7-14
Change to 8-15 {No way is a Lvl 7 Rogue opening those doors with DCs of 47-50! My Lvl 14 Sorc couldn't knock em! Oh and a 1st Lifer isn't completing HiPS till Lvl 11/12 anyway!}.

A first life level 7 rogue or arti can reach +27 Open Lock to open the DC 47 doors with a 20:

10 ranks
02 Dex 15 (being conservative here)
03 Enhancements (T1, low cost, also add disable)
02 Heroim (potion)
02 Cat's Grace (potion, or +4 gear)
06 +4 tools (sold with Free Agents favor)
02 Guild buff (+2 Dex, +1 Danger Room)
==
27 Open Lock check

That considering a first life rogue will want to go there at the lowest level possible, instead of at level 10+, after they finish HIPS. I didn't added a OL item because I don't know the level range modifiers for the new loot (but previously you could get a +10 at level 7). If we are talking at a TR level 7 rogue, it can add a lot more modifiers, like GH potions from estar, tomes (ability and skill), +5 tools stash, crafted gear, etc.

[FranOhmsford]

I don't see why not. Once you get powerful enough for the mobs to provide no challenge to you, raising from 750 to 1500 kills is a very long chore (Orchade being the exception). Is it really problematic that a level 12+ character want to get 1500 kills on Tangleroot and get the full 8500 XP from it? Basically any at-level questing, even on normal, will award around this value when you consider the usual bonus (conquest, ransack, etc).

Slayer is time-consuming. That is the trade-off.

Slayers especially the low level ones are far too easy to allow full xp for any level character - We'd all just set them up and pick it all up after an ER.

I was replying to your statement that they shouldn't have ANY upper limit - My upper limits are in general higher than current {I don't think I've took the upper limit down in any of my suggestions.}.

Oh and I get 1500 Kills in Tangleroot regularly at Lvl 7 {Sometimes I stop at 750 but easily 50% and probably more like 75% of my characters got the full 1500}.

I'd love to be able to finish off the Red Fens Slayer but I gave up on that one fast when I realised that 150 kills per instance into 7,500 just doesn't go!

I'd prefer Red Fens Heroic be reduced to 3,000 Max while an Epic Version is released with a 5,000 Max {the total actually goes up and the XP being Epic goes way up!}.

A first life level 7 rogue or arti can reach +27 Open Lock to open the DC 47 doors with a 20:

10 ranks
02 Dex 15 (being conservative here)
03 Enhancements (T1, low cost, also add disable)
02 Heroim (potion)
02 Cat's Grace (potion, or +4 gear)
06 +4 tools (sold with Free Agents favor)
02 Guild buff (+2 Dex, +1 Danger Room)
==
27 Open Lock check

That considering a first life rogue will want to go there at the lowest level possible, instead of at level 10+, after they finish HIPS. I didn't added a OL item because I don't know the level range modifiers for the new loot (but previously you could get a +10 at level 7). If we are talking at a TR level 7 rogue, it can add a lot more modifiers, like GH potions from estar, tomes (ability and skill), +5 tools stash, crafted gear, etc.

Come on Nibs - You're one of Sarlona's top players and I know you've ran pretty much every quest in the game at the lowest possible level on Elite!

Just because you want to go back and do your Slayers afterwards as you can't do them at level for fear of levelling too fast doesn't mean Korthos should give full xp to Lvl 30s!

Also: What a 1st Lifer CAN have and what they WILL have are two totally different things!


P.S. At the lowest level possible for Restless Isles for a 1st Lifer likely means 12+.
They're not going to be completing HiPS till Lvl 12 at the earliest even if they do decide "there's no groups for this heck I'll just have to solo it on Normal" That will be over level rather than at level.

HiPS is also a difficult quest comparatively - I well remember going in there with a friend at Lvl 9 my first time and wiping in the first corridor on NORMAL!

And finally there's the good chance they won't even have the Restless Isles until later on and the fact that it's easy to level past Restless Isles with other content.
I don't see any reason for the Slayer to start at Lvl 7 and if it means the max limit goes up I'm happy for the min limit to go up too.

[nibel]

Slayers especially the low level ones are far too easy to allow full xp for any level character - We'd all just set them up and pick it all up after an ER.

I was replying to your statement that they shouldn't have ANY upper limit - My upper limits are in general higher than current {I don't think I've took the upper limit down in any of my suggestions.}.

I, personally, see no problem with preparing 1499 kills in every heroic slayer zone and hit them all at 20 with full XP. So I think we should agree to disagree.

Also: What a 1st Lifer CAN have and what they WILL have are two totally different things!

Not discussing about a first life character going into Restless Isles is highly improbable. I was just correcting you that a DC 47 on a LOCK was impossible for a level 7 trapper to take care. Many people underestimate how high trap skills can go.

[FranOhmsford]

I, personally, see no problem with preparing 1499 kills in every heroic slayer zone and hit them all at 20 with full XP. So I think we should agree to disagree.

Really?

I distinctly stated that Heroic Orchard and GH should have their max levels upped to allow this possibility BUT All Heroic Slayers? Really? That's a lot of XP you're basically giving away if Lvl 30 Players can rack up the kills to 1490s {Sands 3x 2990s - Though you'd do well to avoid killing those last few Gnolls while racking up Scorrow and Undead kills.} before ERing.

Not discussing about a first life character going into Restless Isles is highly improbable. I was just correcting you that a DC 47 on a LOCK was impossible for a level 7 trapper to take care. Many people underestimate how high trap skills can go.

So how many tools is that guy gonna use up for locks?

Yes he can keep rolling till he gets a 20 {or let's give him a +6 Open Lock item a 14} but it's still silly high! And only some of those doors are DC 47 {the locked chest is DC50!}.

I notice you didn't say anything about Knock too.

[Darkmits]

The problem with Wildernesses isn't so much the exp penalty for overlevelling as it is the problem that 95%+ of the time you're running around looking for mobs instead of fighting. Now I agree that the upper level limit for 100% exp of Wildernesses should match the highest quest in their area (or maybe +1 of that). But Slayer's also have another issue: As you rack up kills, exp thresholds get further and further apart and exp/kill is reduced. I'd prefer it if thresholds were at every 100 or 200 kills up to their current limit and exp was very slightly increased towards the cap instead of being reduced as it is now. Players now see that they have to kill 200 enemies before getting their next exp reward and decide to leave it altogether.

As for the hypothetical trapper in Restless, locks in Wilderness (and skill checks in general) should be somewhat similar in DC to quests on Normal. 47 may be attainable by a lvl7 rogue/arti/whatever, and as Fran says, he shouldn't keep trying until he rolls 20. Your average 1st-life lvl7 new player trapper should have about:

08 ranks
03 Dex 16
01 Enhancements
01 (+2 DEX gear)
03 (+3 Open Lock gear)
06 +4 tools
==
22 Open Lock skill

So I guess a DC of 35 is more appropriate, if it's meant to be unlockable by lvl7s. Because if we're going to add up all bonuses one can get, a player can potentially reach Open Lock 50+ at lvl7:

10 ranks
09 Dex 20 + 1@lvl4 + 2 tome + 5 Dex gear with Masteful Craftsmanship
02 +2 Open Lock tome
03 Enhancements (Mechanic Mechanics)
06 (Mechanic Skill Boost)
10 (+10 Open Lock gear with Masterful Craftsmanship)
07 +5 tools
02 Guild buff (+2 Dex, +1 Danger Room)
02 Heroism
==
51 Open Lock skill

And I'm pretty sure I've forgotten something, like Insightful Dexterity and Insightful Open Lock. But the game, especially in Wildernesses, isn't designed for the absolute highest possible scores attainable. Not even Heroic Elite, Epic Elite or Legendary Elite are.

[nibel]

Really?

I distinctly stated that Heroic Orchard and GH should have their max levels upped to allow this possibility BUT All Heroic Slayers? Really? That's a lot of XP you're basically giving away if Lvl 30 Players can rack up the kills to 1490s {Sands 3x 2990s - Though you'd do well to avoid killing those last few Gnolls while racking up Scorrow and Undead kills.} before ERing.

Let's see how much they actually are. Getting literally all zones at 1499 or max. I know you can hit 3k+ in many of those, but I'll be conservative just to know a real number.

02,895 - Korthos (750)
01,820 - Cerlean Hills (400)
02,055 - Waterworks (400)
08,707 - Tangleroot
09,450 - 3BC
04,770 - Searing Heights (750)
10,935 - Sorrowdusk
12,420 - Red Fens
12,912 - Ataraxia
13,162 - Restless Isles
13,905 - Sands gnolls
13,630 - Sands scorrow
13,905 - Sands undead
15,390 - Gianthold stormfist
15,390 - Gianthold stormheart
15,390 - Gianthold stormeye
16,132 - Orchard
======
182.868 XP

That is not enough to reach even HALF of the XP needed to level 21. The other zones not included in the list already have a cap of 20 or more, so can already be used for this specific purpose.

[Darkmits]

That is not enough to reach even HALF of the XP needed to level 21. The other zones not included in the list already have a cap of 20 or more, so can already be used for this specific purpose.

That's also proof that isn't not worth trying to update them for this. Spending 2 hours zerging Epic Normal can get you that experience, and also quicker than it takes to visit every zone and achieve this.

[Jasparion]

I agree that there should be some serious work done on Explorer zones. But the problem is, serious work needs to be done in so many areas.

Changing the level ranges would be great. Fixing some of the crazy kill requirements should also be looked at.

[FranOhmsford]

Let's see how much they actually are. Getting literally all zones at 1499 or max. I know you can hit 3k+ in many of those, but I'll be conservative just to know a real number.

02,895 - Korthos (750)
01,820 - Cerlean Hills (400)
02,055 - Waterworks (400)
08,707 - Tangleroot
09,450 - 3BC
04,770 - Searing Heights (750)
10,935 - Sorrowdusk
12,420 - Red Fens
12,912 - Ataraxia
13,162 - Restless Isles
13,905 - Sands gnolls
13,630 - Sands scorrow
13,905 - Sands undead
15,390 - Gianthold stormfist
15,390 - Gianthold stormheart
15,390 - Gianthold stormeye
16,132 - Orchard
======
182.868 XP

That is not enough to reach even HALF of the XP needed to level 21. The other zones not included in the list already have a cap of 20 or more, so can already be used for this specific purpose.

Lol....Just Lol!

Why so literal?

When I said set them up I was talking about the highest possible not just to 1500!

Only 3BC, Tangleroot, Sorrowdusk, Ataraxia and Restless Isles stop at 1500.
Now add up what someone would get if they took Red Fens to 7,500, Sands Gnolls, Scorrow and Undead to 3,000 each, GH Fist, Eye and Heart to 3,000 each and Orchard to 7,500!
Now add that to what they already get from setting up Vale, Wheloon, SubT, Battlefield, High Road, RR, Cannith Manufactory.
Now add in a Grim run in King's Forest.
Oh and let's not forget they can set up the Epic Slayers too to pick up upon ER.
AND Every Saga.

Hang on....Is it actually possible to ER with stuff set up and go straight back to 30 already?


That's also without using a Pot and Voice and Ship isn't it?

[kmoustakas]

I don't know about no upper cap - That may be asking too much.

But I've always thought a lot of the slayer lvl ranges were a bit off.

Korthos
Currently 1-3
Change to 1-4 {Then players who've still got MP to run can finish off their Slayer without staying at Lvl 3}.

Cerulean Hills
Currently 1-4
Change to 1-5 {The Quests are Lvl 5 on E-BB, The Slayer should also max at 5}.

Waterworks
Currently 1-6
Fine as is.

Tangleroot Gorge
Currently 2-7
Change to 3-8 {The last two Quests are Lvl 9 on E-BB but virtually everyone does them by Lvl 8 at the latest anyway}

3 Barrel Cove
Currently 3-8
Change to 3-9 {Scoundrel's Run and Old Grey Garl are Lvl 9 on E-BB}.

Searing Heights
Currently 4-10
Fine as is

Sorrowdusk Isle
Currently 4-11
Change to 6-13 {Who's going into Sorrowdusk Slayer at Lvl 4?}

The Red Fens
Currently 6-13
Change to 7-14 {Again there's no reason to enter the Fens at Lvl 6}

Ataraxia
Currently 7-14
Fine as is

Restless Isles
Currently 7-14
Change to 8-15 {No way is a Lvl 7 Rogue opening those doors with DCs of 47-50! My Lvl 14 Sorc couldn't knock em! Oh and a 1st Lifer isn't completing HiPS till Lvl 11/12 anyway!}.

Sands of Menechtarun
Currently 8-15
Change to 8-16 {Completing Gnolls is easy enough but getting Undead and Scorrow even to 1500 before you're hard capped 17 is a pain in the neck!}.

Gianthold
Currently 10-18
Change to 12-20 {If I'm not mistaken you don't even get the message that Cydonie wants to speak to you till you take Lvl 12! Oh and 20 would allow Players to use this as a set up for after an ER.}

Orchard
Currently 10-19
Change to 12-20 {Again there's no reason to enter the Orchard at Lvl 10. Again allowing Lvl 20s to get full XP would help out ERs if they set it up beforehand}.

Wheloon
Currently 11-20 {You what? The Quests are Lvl 16!}
Change to 14-22 {Iconics may want to start at Lvl 14 soft capped}

Vale
Currently 12-21 {and I know some people start slaying in Vale as early as 12}
Fine as is.

SubT
Currently 14-21
Change to 16-25 {Accept the change to the low end to allow for more leeway at the high end please}

Reaver's Refuge Slayers
Currently 13-22
Change to 15-24

The High Road
Currently 14-23
Fine as is

Devil Battlefield
Currently 15-24
Fine as is

Cannith Manufactory
Currently 15-24
Change to 16-25

Cannith Raid Zones
Currently 16-24
Change to 18-30 {Come on...Give us some leeway here Devs!}

The Storm Horns
Currently 16-24
Change to 16-25

The King's Forest
Currently 20-25
Change to 19-26 {Yes allow Lvl 19s to enter}

The Underdark
Currently 20-26
Change to 20-28

Schindylrynn
Currently 20-26
Change to 20-28

The Demonweb
Currently 20-27
Change to 20-30

The High Road/GH/Wheloon/3BC/Storm Horns Epic
Currently varies
Change to 20-30

Orchard of the Macabre Epic
Currently 20-33 {I thought we were stopping at Cap 30 Devs?}
Change to 20-30

Thunderholm
Currently 25-33 {Again what's with the 33?}
Change to 20-30

I agree +1

[Enderoc]

What would be really cool is if you could scale Explorer areas in a randomization based on difficulty much like the Halloween event...except maybe a bit more creativity than just simply respawning points for mobs. Replace old rares with new ones both lower and higher levels and make them seem like real events instead of just things to kill like the newer wilderness areas seemed to try to do.

(the 33 is basically elite for 30)