Petition to move the Monk Forum...

[Amideus]

Btw. do Monks have any "Voice" in the DDO Council 2015/2016? Are Monks a Topic that is discussed about besides the offical annoucement we read about that "they are planning" something? Maybe one can say, coz beating the dead horse on the Forums won´t Change something, but still Needs to be coz one can feel "not noticed" (Although Cordovan did, but wasn´t wearing Googles).

I believe they are keeping the information on monks close to the chest because it's a big issue and change. They probably don't want to talk too much on it until there's more to give and we're closer to U30.

[Robbenklopper]

Yeah ... like when Kennedy said the US will land on the moon and the NASA had no clue how to do it at the time he announced it ?

[Amideus]

I think also the issues with monks will be more than just an enhancement refresh like what paladin had, as many of the monk special attacks and class features are tied into monk levels and granted feats such as the forms and the fists. So having to rework a monk with updates will be more than just polishing the trees. I'm just glad we are finally on the verge of having handwraps as functional weapons hopefully...

[lain5246]

I think also the issues with monks will be more than just an enhancement refresh like what paladin had, as many of the monk special attacks and class features are tied into monk levels and granted feats such as the forms and the fists. So having to rework a monk with updates will be more than just polishing the trees. I'm just glad we are finally on the verge of having handwraps as functional weapons hopefully...

I have to say that your thread is amusing at best, being every player is wanting their class fixed and playable... for example i know i want to see artificer to be made relevant, and would love to see bear druids get some love... ok a lot of love. The reality is your going to get monk fixes and updates long before artificer gets any love, and i find your rant offensive and childish. My advice is work out what is wrong and provide reasonable solutions to help expedite the monk update. also please refrain from using over preforming builds as the basis of your "my class is not getting fixed fast enough" / "My class is unplayable" rant.


P.s. My main char is Albertjr on Canith. current life is a bladeforged fighter/tank working on proving the LE content is not about being one-shotted.

[Amideus]

I have to say that your thread is amusing at best, being every player is wanting their class fixed and playable... for example i know i want to see artificer to be made relevant, and would love to see bear druids get some love... ok a lot of love. The reality is your going to get monk fixes and updates long before artificer gets any love, and i find your rant offensive and childish. My advice is work out what is wrong and provide reasonable solutions to help expedite the monk update. also please refrain from using over preforming builds as the basis of your "my class is not getting fixed fast enough" / "My class is unplayable" rant.


P.s. My main char is Albertjr on Canith. current life is a bladeforged fighter/tank working on proving the LE content is not about being one-shotted.

Thanks for coming into the thread and providing no real discussion or anything positive to it, just insults and an attempt to appear better than others. Not only did I mention different things in this thread, I made another thread for the exact thing you are talking about, and have mentioned issues with the class. For example:

Dodge and AC are the main aspects of monk defense, but neither is very reliable. The heavy need for PRR and lack of it outside Earth stance means you are in Earth stance 24/7. By design this means builds attempting to use Henshin will never be viable. Tying some of that PRR into the monk feats granted for centered AC would free up stances to be more varied.

Quivering Palm DC needs to be readdressed since the last change to it. It's still not working as well as it should for the investment with a stacking 4 DC on fails.

Monk elemental attacks and some enhancements should scale with melee power.

Monk stances should be unique and stacking bonuses, right now Wind Stance is made nearly obsolete through gear.

Handswraps and unarmed attacks either need to be given access to weapon based crit enhancements and bonuses like all other forms of melee, or they need to implement something to give unarmed attacks only a slight push to bonus damage. Ex: Legendary Ring ala ToD that give unarmed attacks extra damage.

Half of these I mentioned in this very thread, so I find your need to read the first or last couple of posts and then comment on it in an attempt to be high and mighty offensive. It's clear you did not bother to read through the comments before making your assumptions.

As for artificers, they could use an overhaul. But they are certainly far from useless or unviable as a class. I recall some new feats specific to them being added last update. They get some extremely useful buffs and spells as well as having some incredible ranged potential. Not only have I played through an artificer life recently, a majority of ranged classes are all strong including artificer. Are they behind on some of their enhancement trees? Sure. But do their weapons have an entire page of bugged effects and a page of bonuses specifically excluding them? No.

And are we seriously going to throw druids, currently being called one of the best melee classes in the game due to the broken nature of their wolf form, into this as a class that needs an update?? They had some form change buffs not that long ago for their caster sides too.

The point of this thread is to highlight the horrible state of monk melee and unarmed style of play in the game where the class is specifically listed as a melee class. And to show the absurdity in the fact that monks currently make better archers than martial artists.

[FranOhmsford]

And are we seriously going to throw druids, currently being called one of the best melee classes in the game due to the broken nature of their wolf form, into this as a class that needs an update?? They had some form change buffs not that long ago for their caster sides too.

ABSOLUTELY Druids need an Update!

Wolf Form is broken and basically nothing but an Exploit!
Bear Form isn't even close to Viable!
Caster Druids are weak too when you consider that the one spell everyone goes on about {Earthquake} 1) Should be made available to Clerics and FvSs but then NOBODY would play a Druid that wasn't a Wolf {not that many do now!} and 2) works perfectly well for those Wolves - You don't need to be a full on Caster Druid to have a decent Earthquake!

Druid is the one and only Class I've never been able to get to Lvl 20!
Closest I got was 16 on a 1st Life character who I eventually deleted!
I have characters with Druid Past Lives thanks to Ottos!

As far as I'm concerned Druid is the single worst Class in DDO!

[Amideus]

ABSOLUTELY Druids need an Update!

Wolf Form is broken and basically nothing but an Exploit!
Bear Form isn't even close to Viable!
Caster Druids are weak too when you consider that the one spell everyone goes on about {Earthquake} 1) Should be made available to Clerics and FvSs but then NOBODY would play a Druid that wasn't a Wolf {not that many do now!} and 2) works perfectly well for those Wolves - You don't need to be a full on Caster Druid to have a decent Earthquake!

Druid is the one and only Class I've never been able to get to Lvl 20!
Closest I got was 16 on a 1st Life character who I eventually deleted!
I have characters with Druid Past Lives thanks to Ottos!

As far as I'm concerned Druid is the single worst Class in DDO!

So earthquake is quite a powerful and useful spell. Your statement that clerics and fvs should have it too is pointless because they don't have it. There are other useful and powerful spells for druid. Your inability to finish playing the class is not a reason for it being bad, just seems you didn't like it. Not every feature of a class has to be viable or powerful. I don't feel Henshin needs to be top tier for that reason. And sure wolf exploit makes druids top tier 100% the best melee dps. But that isn't to say none exploit wolf is bad, far from it.

[FranOhmsford]

But that isn't to say none exploit wolf is bad, far from it.

So only Monks are bad? Got it.

You might have more luck with your campaign to get Monks buffed if you'd accept they're not the only ones in a bind right now you know.

I want Monks buffed too!
Doesn't mean I'll ignore the problems of other Classes though.

[Amideus]

So only Monks are bad? Got it.

You might have more luck with your campaign to get Monks buffed if you'd accept they're not the only ones in a bind right now you know.

I want Monks buffed too!
Doesn't mean I'll ignore the problems of other Classes though.

I fail to see how that matters in the "monk" forum. If this was about class disparity across the board I would post it in a basic class forum. But it's not. It's about monks, specifically melee monks. So talking about spellcasters and specialists here is kind of not the point of the topic. And at no point did I say every class is perfect but monks. However, fighters, barbs, and paladins all got balance passes in some way to put their class into scaling. But not monks. That is why I made this thread. Monks need to be treated like melee classes first not ranged classes.

[lain5246]

Thanks for coming into the thread and providing no real discussion or anything positive to it, just insults and an attempt to appear better than others. Not only did I mention different things in this thread, I made another thread for the exact thing you are talking about, and have mentioned issues with the class. For example:

Dodge and AC are the main aspects of monk defense, but neither is very reliable. The heavy need for PRR and lack of it outside Earth stance means you are in Earth stance 24/7. By design this means builds attempting to use Henshin will never be viable. Tying some of that PRR into the monk feats granted for centered AC would free up stances to be more varied.

Quivering Palm DC needs to be readdressed since the last change to it. It's still not working as well as it should for the investment with a stacking 4 DC on fails.

Monk elemental attacks and some enhancements should scale with melee power.

Monk stances should be unique and stacking bonuses, right now Wind Stance is made nearly obsolete through gear.

Handswraps and unarmed attacks either need to be given access to weapon based crit enhancements and bonuses like all other forms of melee, or they need to implement something to give unarmed attacks only a slight push to bonus damage. Ex: Legendary Ring ala ToD that give unarmed attacks extra damage.

Half of these I mentioned in this very thread, so I find your need to read the first or last couple of posts and then comment on it in an attempt to be high and mighty offensive. It's clear you did not bother to read through the comments before making your assumptions.

As for artificers, they could use an overhaul. But they are certainly far from useless or unviable as a class. I recall some new feats specific to them being added last update. They get some extremely useful buffs and spells as well as having some incredible ranged potential. Not only have I played through an artificer life recently, a majority of ranged classes are all strong including artificer. Are they behind on some of their enhancement trees? Sure. But do their weapons have an entire page of bugged effects and a page of bonuses specifically excluding them? No.

And are we seriously going to throw druids, currently being called one of the best melee classes in the game due to the broken nature of their wolf form, into this as a class that needs an update?? They had some form change buffs not that long ago for their caster sides too.

The point of this thread is to highlight the horrible state of monk melee and unarmed style of play in the game where the class is specifically listed as a melee class. And to show the absurdity in the fact that monks currently make better archers than martial artists.

i was commenting on was your comments in this thread, as such i can sum up as "My class(monk) does not compete like i see other classes(bard, paladin, warlock, rogue, ranger) and i want to whine untill they become best class/build", than atk other people that see something other that me in game. so you want to imply i don't know /understand this game than fine lets look at your claims above. "Dodge and AC are the main aspects of monk defense, but neither is very reliable. The heavy need for PRR and lack of it outside Earth stance means you are in Earth stance 24/7"... Fair point, except that monks are not suppose to be tanks nor are they suppose to be based on prr. they are suppose to be fast moving and untouchable, but if they get hit splat. realistically there needs to be an overhaul of the different defense mechanics to align them properly as the game has evolved from what it was in years past. scaling is a major problem from my experience, but that is a different issue. "Quivering Palm DC" was broke for the longest now is under preforming, but i suspect will be addressed with the overhaul. "Monk elemental attacks" are going to be like arcane archer enhancements in they have to be very careful of what they do because of min/max players finding ways to exploit them. "Monk stances" i agree that the should be unique, or at least stacking. "Handswraps" are in the works. "artificers" even though i love them, i find them to be like bards and paladins before the respective updates. your weapon is going to be fixed soon enough, though if you really want to get real ours was just recently fixed and only because of a different class. "druids" Thanks now allow me to point out that the build in question is a bug/exploit thus making you argument there defe-ated./on. You do not seem to understand that the monks from the past are dead, that you need to give the devs time to find ways to fix the classes in ways that don't result in ruining the game state or require nerfs like we recently had. I will be glad to prove monks are not as "dire" a state as you claim after my fighter life.
Lastly lets look at me, and to be honest i am not the best player nor do i fully understand min-max builds, But I love to build toons that surpass most peoples understanding/expectations of said class.
Lastly allow me to finish this with a p.s.a. I am Albertjr on canith and i am not hiding nor am i afraid to have a reasonable in game chat. I am also not afraid to call out people that want to ruin my favorite game because they are not able to think outside the box.
https://youtu.be/-zfvVc8Kj2s

[QuantumFX]

The classes fall within the sub-forums based on their placement in Character Select, so the choices are Melee, Specialist, or Arcane. Since Monk falls under Melee, that's where it goes on the forums too. There is no ranged section. A case could be made that monks could qualify for Specialist, but that's not how it is in-game.

Someone rolled a 1 on his Sense Motive check.

[Amideus]

i was commenting on was your comments in this thread, as such i can sum up as "My class(monk) does not compete like i see other classes(bard, paladin, warlock, rogue, ranger) and i want to whine untill they become best class/build", than atk other people that see something other that me in game. so you want to imply i don't know /understand this game than fine lets look at your claims above. "Dodge and AC are the main aspects of monk defense, but neither is very reliable. The heavy need for PRR and lack of it outside Earth stance means you are in Earth stance 24/7"... Fair point, except that monks are not suppose to be tanks nor are they suppose to be based on prr. they are suppose to be fast moving and untouchable, but if they get hit splat. realistically there needs to be an overhaul of the different defense mechanics to align them properly as the game has evolved from what it was in years past. scaling is a major problem from my experience, but that is a different issue. "Quivering Palm DC" was broke for the longest now is under preforming, but i suspect will be addressed with the overhaul. "Monk elemental attacks" are going to be like arcane archer enhancements in they have to be very careful of what they do because of min/max players finding ways to exploit them. "Monk stances" i agree that the should be unique, or at least stacking. "Handswraps" are in the works. "artificers" even though i love them, i find them to be like bards and paladins before the respective updates. your weapon is going to be fixed soon enough, though if you really want to get real ours was just recently fixed and only because of a different class. "druids" Thanks now allow me to point out that the build in question is a bug/exploit thus making you argument there defe-ated./on. You do not seem to understand that the monks from the past are dead, that you need to give the devs time to find ways to fix the classes in ways that don't result in ruining the game state or require nerfs like we recently had. I will be glad to prove monks are not as "dire" a state as you claim after my fighter life.
Lastly lets look at me, and to be honest i am not the best player nor do i fully understand min-max builds, But I love to build toons that surpass most peoples understanding/expectations of said class.
Lastly allow me to finish this with a p.s.a. I am Albertjr on canith and i am not hiding nor am i afraid to have a reasonable in game chat. I am also not afraid to call out people that want to ruin my favorite game because they are not able to think outside the box.
https://youtu.be/-zfvVc8Kj2s

So, I called you out on your last comment of your generalizations and you layer more attacks onto me. Do I love monks? Absolutely. Is it my main? No, and I haven't mailed a monk since U21. The reason is because I have played bards, barbs, and paladins since then. Even did a warlock life too. So it's not me seeing other people do better. I am literally playing the better classes nowith and can tell the difference.

As for your counterpoint that you made:
You are wrong that monks are not to be tanks. They aren't supposed to be pure tanks, but don't try and tell me that AC, PRR, increased threat, and Concentration intimidate is there so they can avoid getting hit. That's just flat out untrue. Style wise the decision is most likely to make them off tanks much like how barbarians traditionally were. Protect the squishies. Theven problem is monks are pretty squishy now too. And sure avoidance over mitigation is a thing, but there is a fine line to be walked there. You can't have a melee class that gets two shot in your content and can't stay in the fight. It invalidates them being melee which is why lots of monks choose ranged over melee. It's just unsafe to be a melee monk.

QP had a single small point recently where it was too strong. Before they added sunder bonuses to it, no one used it. After they added it everyone used it. Now it's back to no one using it. It needs a damage component to bring it into usability without making it too strong as I see it.

And yes, monks from previous U18 are dead. That's the point here. Monks are not scaling into later parts of the game or EE properly. It is an issue. Stop coming in here and trying to guilt me out of talking about it to promote yourself.

[Amideus]

Someone rolled a 1 on his Sense Motive check.

Aw, leave him alone. He wore his awesome top hat of charisma instead. I appreciate him answering the sarcastic post anyway.

[Tyrande]

To the RANGED classes rather than the melee if [...]

Might as well petition for the fix for the monk loot too. i.e. from double strike to double shot.

and palm strikes to Qi strikes; melee power to range power, melee alacrity to range alacrity

and while you are at it, petition to change Henshin Mystic tree to a Henshin Ninja tree.

Yes, PRR/MRR broke pure monk, and you knew it.

[Amideus]

Might as well petition for the fix for the monk loot too. i.e. from double strike to double shot.

and palm strikes to Qi strikes; melee power to range power, melee alacrity to range alacrity

and while you are at it, petition to change Henshin Mystic tree to a Henshin Ninja tree.

Yes, PRR/MRR broke pure monk, and you knew it.

Maybe you missed the part where this is sarcasm in the fact that ranged monks are better monks than unarmed or melee monks right now. And I don't like that fact very much.

[Robbenklopper]

I have to say that your thread is amusing at best, being every player is wanting their class fixed and playable... for example i know i want to see artificer to be made relevant, and would love to see bear druids get some love... ok a lot of love. The reality is your going to get monk fixes and updates long before artificer gets any love, and i find your rant offensive and childish. My advice is work out what is wrong and provide reasonable solutions to help expedite the monk update. also please refrain from using over preforming builds as the basis of your "my class is not getting fixed fast enough" / "My class is unplayable" rant.


P.s. My main char is Albertjr on Canith. current life is a bladeforged fighter/tank working on proving the LE content is not about being one-shotted.

I don´t think anyone wants to queue jump, just to see some things fixed asap. The fact that "soon" defines something taking place in a vague possible future leaves too much space inbetween when you think the Train hasn´t even started to Destination. And many Switches doesnt seem to be placed right. Now this is not only with Monks ofc, there are many other things similar like arti you mentioned. You´re in a compareable Situation and we can hope for some solidarity coz you know how it feels. Some issues with Monk aren´t since yesterday or just 3-4 Updated ago, it´s been much longer. Certainly it would help alot if old bugs/Problems NWAI are made WAI before "New" things appear (if neccessary at all), and a Forum allows you to think in letters and share opinions. Crying and sandboxes are some threads next door, not here. Placing the finger on issues undone or a discussion give insight or Options to improve. Maybe it´s awaking some devs guilty conscience to push a Little harder on this or that.

[Amideus]

I don´t think anyone wants to queue jump, just to see some things fixed asap. The fact that "soon" defines something taking place in a vague possible future leaves too much space inbetween when you think the Train hasn´t even started to Destination. And many Switches doesnt seem to be placed right. Now this is not only with Monks ofc, there are many other things similar like arti you mentioned. You´re in a compareable Situation and we can hope for some solidarity coz you know how it feels. Some issues with Monk aren´t since yesterday or just 3-4 Updated ago, it´s been much longer. Certainly it would help alot if old bugs/Problems NWAI are made WAI before "New" things appear (if neccessary at all), and a Forum allows you to think in letters and share opinions. Crying and sandboxes are some threads next door, not here. Placing the finger on issues undone or a discussion give insight or Options to improve. Maybe it´s awaking some devs guilty conscience to push a Little harder on this or that.

This, all of it. I was far less civil about it, but then again the post that was made felt like a direct attack on me and started out with hostile words so I was quite a bit unhappy to say the least. But yes, there are classes all over that could use love. But this is the monk forum and I want to bring attention to the issues I see, and discuss the things that could change. While being snarky. Because it's fun.

[Snarglefrump]

Do the new " Warrior's" items increase the Quivering Palm DC?

[TPICKRELL]

So I ran through the numbers again just to be sure, and I am not certain I didn't miss anything, but I think I got it down to brass tax on this one:
Quivering Palm Theoretical DC for a Dwarf 16M/4F Build

DC=
10 Base
8 Monk Levels
28 Wisdom
3 GMoF
6 LD Twist
3 Dwarf Tactics
3 Fighter Tactics
3 Fighter Past Lives
2 Fighter Tactician
2 Epic Tactician
4 Scion of the Astral Plane
5/7 Insightful Combat / Know the Angles
1? Guild

Have you checked that all of these are applying to QP DC?

Right now I'm runnig multi-class monk/rogue/xxx builds to finish out my triple completionist so I can't check for myself. But after the nerf that removed shatter from the DC I did check and the fighter feats, LD Twist and past lives were definitely not being added into the QP DC at that time.

It may have been changed since, but I don't remember anything in any of the release notes.

[Amideus]

Have you checked that all of these are applying to QP DC?

Right now I'm runnig multi-class monk/rogue/xxx builds to finish out my triple completionist so I can't check for myself. But after the nerf that removed shatter from the DC I did check and the fighter feats, LD Twist and past lives were definitely not being added into the QP DC at that time.

It may have been changed since, but I don't remember anything in any of the release notes.

Fighter Past Lives, LD Twists, and the Epic Tactician feat DOES apply to QP, last time I ran my monk, which was immediately after the sunder bonus was removed. What I am NOT sure applies to QP, and is reflected partially in that post is:
Guild Tactical Buff
The new Fighter Tactics Feat added in one of the last two updates
Scion of the Astral Plane
Insightful Combat Mastery
Know the Angles

I have not tested these, and until Lamannia comes back up this is all theoretical.