Question about tempest wolves

[Kadrios]

So I've seen a lot of builds that make use of the TWF+SWF exploit for wolf build. My main question is as follows:

if I'm in wolf form, and have two weapons equipped, do I benefit from Tempest enhancements that work when you are dual-wielding (Shield of Whirling Steel, Improved Parry, Whirling blades etc.)?

EDIT: Also, would the tempest cores allow dex to damage (or for that matter would DWS improved finesse allow dex to damage)?

[giftie]

So I've seen a lot of builds that make use of the TWF+SWF exploit for wolf build. My main question is as follows:

if I'm in wolf form, and have two weapons equipped, do I benefit from Tempest enhancements that work when you are dual-wielding (Shield of Whirling Steel, Improved Parry, Whirling blades etc.)?

The answer is usually no. While in wolf form, you're considered unarmed and not dual-wielding, regardless of what you have equipped. Or at least that's in theory, but there are bugs galore.

The only enhancements which work in wolf form, while explicitly stating it requires TWF, is Growing Storm, Dance of Death and A Thousand Cuts. Despite what Wiki says, I could not get Elaborate Parry to work in wolf form.

[unbongwah]

if I'm in wolf form, and have two weapons equipped, do I benefit from Tempest enhancements that work when you are dual-wielding (Shield of Whirling Steel, Improved Parry, Whirling blades etc.)?

No.

EDIT: Also, would the tempest cores allow dex to damage (or for that matter would DWS improved finesse allow dex to damage)?

Also no.

[Kadrios]

Thanks for the quick responses guys.

So in essence the stat options for damage are strength (or int via harper), and the only major benefit of the Tempest enhancements are the glitchy offhand strike procs(from the core enhancements) correct?

[giftie]

Thanks for the quick responses guys.

So in essence the stat options for damage are strength (or int via harper), and the only major benefit of the Tempest enhancements are the glitchy offhand strike procs(from the core enhancements) correct?

Harper doesn't work either.

No, the major benefit is Dance of Death.

[unbongwah]

Harper doesn't work either.

This. Currently there is no way to sub STR to dmg for another stat w/unarmed atks; this includes wolf builds.

No, the major benefit is Dance of Death.

Also this. With wolf builds the trick is trying to max out your # of atk procs to make up for the low base dmg (relative to 5[W] weapons) in epics. SWF atk speed stacks with wolf atk speed; TWF "offhand" procs; doublestrike from Natural Fighting & other sources; and DoD are all ways of boosting those procs.

As for how much of this is actually WAI: we know the TWF feats are bugged, but as for the rest, who knows?

[Kadrios]

This. Currently there is no way to sub STR to dmg for another stat w/unarmed atks; this includes wolf builds.

That's annoying, but nothing I can't work around.

Also this. With wolf builds the trick is trying to max out your # of atk procs to make up for the low base dmg (relative to 5[W] weapons) in epics. SWF atk speed stacks with wolf atk speed; TWF "offhand" procs; doublestrike from Natural Fighting & other sources; and DoD are all ways of boosting those procs.

As for how much of this is actually WAI: we know the TWF feats are bugged, but as for the rest, who knows?

That makes a lot of sense, although it feels like a lot of wasted AP just to get DoD (given how much of the tempest enhancements rely on TWF).

I wonder if T5 natures warrior, combine with a decent amount of DWS would return roughly the same effectiveness (or perhaps more), while making the overall AP spend more efficient (in that more of the AP are going into skills that provide an active benefit)

For reference, currently working on putting together a 12/6/2 drd/rgr/rog build.

[CPDK9]

Here is a build that Unbongwah had posted in a thread that I had questions. I had also questioned him regarding DoD vs Alpha Strike and it seems that DoD is much better for crowd control strikes - if I remember correctly.


I prefer to front-load the druid levels to get winter wolf form ASAP. Also, Natural Fighting has to be taken in regular feat slots, not ftr bonus feats.

Alternate build:
YAWB (Yet Another Wolf Build)
10/6/4 Druid/Ranger/Fighter, Epic 1
True Neutral Human


Level Order

1. Druid. . . . . .6. Druid . . . . .11. Fighter. . . . 16. Ranger
2. Druid. . . . . .7. Druid . . . . .12. Fighter. . . . 17. Ranger
3. Druid. . . . . .8. Druid . . . . .13. Ranger . . . . 18. Ranger
4. Druid. . . . . .9. Druid . . . . .14. Ranger . . . . 19. Fighter
5. Druid. . . . . 10. Fighter . . . .15. Ranger . . . . 20. Druid


Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt. . .Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 18 . . . . . . . .4: STR
Dexterity . . . 14 . . . +3. . . .8: STR
Constitution. . 16 . . . . . . . 12: STR
Intelligence. . .8 . . . . . . . 16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . .8 . . . . . . . 20: STR
Charisma. . . . .8 . . . . . . .


Feats

.1. . . . : Single Weapon Fighting
.1 Human. : Dodge
.2 Druid. : Wild Shape 1: Wolf
.3. . . . : Precision
.5 Druid. : Wild Shape 1: Bear
.6. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
.8 Druid. : Wild Shape 2: Winter Wolf
.9. . . . : Natural Fighting
10 Fighter: Improved Single Weapon Fighting
11 Fighter: Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
12. . . . : Natural Fighting
13 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
15. . . . : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
17 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
18. . . . : Natural Fighting
19 Fighter: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical


Enhancements (80 AP)

Human (3 AP)

•Damage Boost
1.Improved Recovery



Tempest (36 AP)

•Shield of Whirling Steel
1.Item Defense III, Improved Reaction III, Acrobatic I
2.Bleed Them Out III, Haste Boost III
3.Critical Accuracy III, Strength
4.Critical Damage III, The Growing Storm III, Strength
5.Dance of Death III



Nature's Warrior (23 AP)

•Nature's Warrior, Instinctive Fighting
1.Extra Wild Empathy III, Athletic I
2.Flight III, Vengeful Hunter II
3.Fight III, Improved Dodge III, Fatal Harrier III
4.Four Legs Good, Essence of the Shrike II



Stalwart Defender (13 AP)

•Toughness, Stalwart Defense
1.Item Defense I, Durable Defense III
2.Resilient Defense III, Instinctive Defense I
3.Tenacious Defense III



Kensei (5 AP)

•Kensei Focus: Druidic Weapons
1.Extra Action Boost II

[CPDK9]

Here is his take on Alpha Strike vs DoD:

When it comes to killing trash mobs, it's tough to beat DoD, particularly on a build which emphasizes atk speed and "offhand" procs like this (which don't apply to Cleaves, inc. Alpha Strikes). The problem is you have to spend a lot of APs on Tempest filler to get it and Growing Storm.

An alternate approach would be to ditch Tempest and put 34+ APs in NW for Alpha Strike & Natural Adept, 26 APs into DWS (Exposing Strike + max Killer), with remaining APs spread between SD, Kensei, and human. You lose the AoE DPS of DoD, but gain doublestrike & extra SAs from DWS; plus the reduced spell CD from Natural Adept means you can spam Gtr Vigor on yourself that much more frequently.

[Kadrios]

Here is his take on Alpha Strike vs DoD:

When it comes to killing trash mobs, it's tough to beat DoD, particularly on a build which emphasizes atk speed and "offhand" procs like this (which don't apply to Cleaves, inc. Alpha Strikes). The problem is you have to spend a lot of APs on Tempest filler to get it and Growing Storm.

An alternate approach would be to ditch Tempest and put 34+ APs in NW for Alpha Strike & Natural Adept, 26 APs into DWS (Exposing Strike + max Killer), with remaining APs spread between SD, Kensei, and human. You lose the AoE DPS of DoD, but gain doublestrike & extra SAs from DWS; plus the reduced spell CD from Natural Adept means you can spam Gtr Vigor on yourself that much more frequently.

Thanks for posting that, it lines up with roughly what I had thought would be the case. also, thanks for posting the build, always good to have additional sources of inspiration

[unbongwah]

Somewhere there's a druid 9 / rgr 6 build using DWS instead of Tempest, in an effort to "future-proof" against Turbine fixing TWF / Tempest bugs applying to wolf form. Feats are mostly the same either way, so feel free to experiment with Enhancements.

[Dragbon]

Thanks for the quick responses guys.

So in essence the stat options for damage are strength (or int via harper), and the only major benefit of the Tempest enhancements are the glitchy offhand strike procs(from the core enhancements) correct?

Well everyone has been mentioning dance of death as a big bonus of tier 5 tempest but you guys are missing the other big thing from tier 5 tempest. Thousand cuts also works with wolf attacks and is a huge boss dps increase. It should always be taken.

Also for other enhancements I have personally only put 14 points in NW grabbing the base damage increase and the cores. In the current endgame you don't need fatal harrier and it is very difficult to keep up. These extra points can either be spent in DWS to get the tier 3 core or in the fighter defender tree to get another 8 str. These enhancements work for all levels but my current focus is the new raids on LE.

Also about future proofing your wolf. Just remember that twf has been bugged with wolf for like 2 years and has been working with swf since it came out. As it is currently the druid is supposed to have a pass after monks so I would assume around fall 2016. So you can have a build that is one of the top DPSers out there until that point.