Bladeforged Hate-tank, is it possible?

[ifumoveudie]

So I just recently came back to the game and figured I'd give the BF a shot. Not impressed with the pally thing at all. Now I've done a couple of tanks before, but that was pre-epic level(post lvl 20). I am wondering what the virtues of making a BF tank would be, and if anyone has attempted this already and what the success of it was? Any help at all would be nice, just don't tell me to scrap it, I hate bad decisions......

[ifumoveudie]

ok, so I've gone through and swapped out the feats and enhancements three times now, and I've come up with this. There is not a lot of dps available, obviously, but, at lvl 16 and with only ship buffs, I had a blocking AC of 85 and a DR of 20. I'm sure that there are other buffs that could take it even higher, but I have yet to run it as such. So, my new question is, is there any good gear I could use to make this guy a certifiable tank for post lvl 20 quests? I do need to get my balance up and my intim is still a bit low, but I have been able to grab most bosses I've come across. Is there a good weapon to use when tanking, I use a battle shield and a longsword right now, but I'd like to add the dps to hold aggro. I am open to any suggestions you guys may have.

[unbongwah]

There are several S&B paladin builds on the forums these days; start with my Sacred Vanguards thread and Erkid's build.

[ifumoveudie]

Ok, i read the build idea, and I have to say, even though I am pretty new to the world of tanking, it looks pretty good. Though my biggest concern is whether or not it will work with a BF, or should I lvl to 20, and TR into a different race, or just continue to 30 with this guy?

[Khallaya]

Ok, i read the build idea, and I have to say, even though I am pretty new to the world of tanking, it looks pretty good. Though my biggest concern is whether or not it will work with a BF, or should I lvl to 20, and TR into a different race, or just continue to 30 with this guy?

In my opinion: Both are fine, in the end you don't have many points available to spend on the race tree anyway (if you go vanguard since you really need to spend 40+ to make it worth while), so it comes down mainly to a feat + being easier to heal vs immunitues.

[unbongwah]

Iconics can't HTR at lvl 20; you have to level them to cap then ITR or ER.

Bladeforged pros: Recon SLA, inherent immunities.
Human pros: two extra feats (racial bonus and don't need to take Adamantine Body like BF), human tree is cheaper than BF.

Either works: human can afford to spend more APs in KotC & SD than BF can, at least if you want Recon SLA. Extra feats on human are essential if you want b.sword + THF chain, IMHO.

[ifumoveudie]

Should I go a couple lvls in Ftr, to grab some extra shield or armor feats? I've had a couple people in game tell me it would be a good idea to pick some up.

[unbongwah]

Losing the Vanguard capstone would be...unfortunate.

[ifumoveudie]

Ok,
today I am going back and re-rolling this guy and I am going to follow the build you gave me as close as I can, with this being an Iconic build. Thank you for the advice, and hopefully I don't make a mess of the build you linked me to.

[unbongwah]

FWIW, here's a BF pally VG build I had been planning on using until the recent balance pass nerfed it. But let's go over some of the pros & cons of my build decisions anyway...

Bladeforged Vanguard
Paladin 20
Lawful Good Bladeforged


Stats
               34pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     --------
Strength        16       +3       4: STR
Dexterity        9       +5       8: STR
Constitution    18       +3      12: STR
Intelligence     9       +3      16: STR
Wisdom           6               20: STR
Charisma        16       +3      24: STR
                                 28: STR

Skills
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Intim     4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
UMD                   ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  1  1  1  1  1  1  1     1     11
Repair                                                             1   1
Balance                                                      1         1
Tumble          ½  ½                                                   1
         ------------------------------------------------------------
          4  1  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3


Feats

 1        : Adamantine Body
 1 Deity  : Follower of: Lord of Blades
 3        : Shield Mastery
 6        : Quicken Spell
 6 Deity  : Bladesworn Transformation
 9        : Improved Shield Mastery
12        : Improved Critical: Piercing
15        : Precision
18        : Improved Shield Bash
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Stunning Blow
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic   : Epic Fortitude
28 Destiny: Elusive Target


Enhancements (80 AP)

Bladeforged (16 AP)

Improved Fortification, Warforged Constitution
Mechanist III
Communion of Scribing III
<none>
Power of the Forge

Vanguard (41 AP)

To the Fore!, Shield Combat I, Vicious Shield I, Shield Combat II, Vicious Shield II, Shield Champion
Shield Specialization, Shield Smash III
Shield Specialization, Brutality III, Stunning Shield III, Missile Shield III, Melee Power Boost III
Shield Specialization, Follow Up III, Fatal Bulwark
<none>
Shield to the Face, Disorienting Smash II, Shield Charge III, Armored Strength

Sacred Defender (13 AP)

Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
Extra Lay On Hands III, Durable Defense III
Inciting Defense II
Tenacious Defense III

Knight of the Chalice (10 AP)

Slayer of Evil
Extra Turning II, Extra Smite II
Divine Might I, Exalted Cleave III


Destiny (24 AP)

Divine Crusader

Endless Turning III, Interrogation, Purge the Wicked
Confront Any Foe, Consecration III
Sacred Ground, Blessed Blades
No Regret, Crusade
Castigation, Celestial Champion
Strike Down

Twists of Fate (26 fate points)

Haste Boost (Tier 3 Dreadnought)
Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
Legendary Shield Mastery (Tier 2 Sentinel)
Extra Action Boost or Legendary Tactics (Tier 1 Dreadnought)

Listed tomes are either what I've already taken or planned to take before TRing. Concept was Vanguard using heavy picks: Deathnip + Fanion to start, Thunderforged hvy pick + whatever's the best epic shield I could pull later. Dreadnought would be better DPS, but I like Crusader better thematically and Celestial Champion stacks with Holy Sword.

Pros: BF bonuses (immunities, Recon SLA, PotF), full Vanguard bonuses (inc. 80% shield bash proc rate), lots of stunning options (which would now include Dire Charge), high Fortification bypass (Precision + Grim Precision + Dragon's Edge = 75%)
Cons: low AoE DPS (just Avenging Cleave + Consecration), BF tree chews up so many APs I don't have as much to spend in KotC or SD as I would like (in particular, I hate having only 30-sec Div Might)

Unfortunately, the balance pass screwed up my original plans:

Old Deathnip: 19-20/x4 base -> 18-20/x5 Holy Sword -> 15-20/x5 IC:Pierce
New Deathnip: 18-20/x4 base -> 17-20/x5 Holy Sword -> 16-20/x5 IC:Pierce

Old TF hvy pick: 20/x4 base -> 19-20/x4 Celestial Champion -> 18-20/x5 Holy Sword -> 15-20/x5 IC:Pierce -> 15-18/x5 19-20/x6 Overwhelming Crit
New TF hvy pick: 20/x4 base -> 19-20/x4 Celestial Champion -> 18-20/x5 Holy Sword -> 17-20/x5 IC:Pierce -> 17-18/x5 19-20/x6 Overwhelming Crit

So I lost 4 effective hits in heroics (~9% DPS loss) and 8 effective hits in epics (~18% DPS loss). That plus Holy Sword no longer applying to shields really hurt the DPS on this build. But hey, silver lining: at least the nerfs hit before I farmed up a bunch of TF gear. Despite the nerf, Deathnip is still a great weapon for heroics if you have it, but I wouldn't bother with hvy picks in epics anymore; either switch to rapiers or respec for khopeshes like ErKid, I think (drop Epic Fortitude to make room for khop prof, rearrange feat order as necessary).