The new random loot is insane

[Iron_Claw]

Non raiders can't get the spread of stats and effects raiders get. I have a mythic +2 breastplate of the celestial sage. It is not awe inspiring but it consolidates a ton of effects, stats. That beats out an loot Gen there is. So yeah non raiders can't get gear as good as mine.

But that non raider that wants to start raiding will be a fully productive raider when he decides to change from casual to raider.


Raiders are still going to be stronger than casuals. That is not a grey area at all. Raiders will have better gear consolidation, so more effects and better effects. Raiders will have more past life and completionist feats, so more raw power.

The only real effect is a group of 12 casual players can break the glass ceiling easier with the new gear pass and become hardcore raiders without needing a years build up.

Keep that bs for yourself please.

[Greyhawk6]

Have to say the last place I thought I'd see the usual tired old "raiders deserve better than everyone else" argument would be in DDO. That horse has been thoroughly beaten to death, made into glue and been used to make tiny models of wombats from quality street wrappers...

[scipiojedi]

Exactly.

I have wasted my ****ing time farming doj/mod and now legendary x/y/z because random gen is overperforming in every way possible.

Why was it a waste? Did you not haz fun while doing it?

[Iron_Claw]

Have to say the last place I thought I'd see the usual tired old "raiders deserve better than everyone else" argument would be in DDO. That horse has been thoroughly beaten to death, made into glue and been used to make tiny models of wombats from quality street wrappers...

Then ****ing delete the raids and don't waste my time. That is the kind of response they will be getting.

[Beelzebjorn]

On and off casual player here. Leveling up my level 7 character to level 9 yesterday, here are my 2 cents on the new loot system:
On lower levels, the loot doesn't seem too overpowered. But maybe I just wasn't able to find any really good items. What I *can* definitely say though: It's ridiculously unpolished.

1) Every weapon I find is a casting implement, even throwers. There should be a distinction between non-caster weapons and caster weapons, slamming the properties of both all together just makes for an ungodly amount of trash.

2) Handwraps with Doubleshot? How am I going to use that... ever? Doubleshot and Doublestrike should be one property, like they were before. And some distributions of stats are just weird. This also goes for great axes and throwing weapons with caster stats.

3) I haven't found a single dexterity or strength item, not even on the AH, they seem to be super rare now. Instead I found a million int, wis and cha items. It might have something to do with the fact that there's so many more caster stats than melee stats (?), perhaps it's just bad luck on my part.

4) The new loot systems works wonders together with "Quest Reward based on Class" to give you a list of trash every single time you finish a quest. Especially with the new loot, the "Based on Class" Rewards REALLY need an update. So that monks can find shuriken, rogues can find repeating and great crossbows etc. And why are there only armors and wepons? Do classes not need necklaces, rings, belts, boots, ...?

5) The loot system feels very wonky and unpredictable compared to the old one. You can roll trash that needs level 8 and super awesome items that need level 4, and they essentially have the same stats. Whether this is good or bad is debatable I guess.

6) 94% Fortification? Why? So that only tank specs and WF can get a 100% with this item? Fortification should not be in this random list. It just doesn't make any sense.

7) This has been bothering me for a long time now, but why do the better base armors (Skirmish Chainmail, Mountain Plate, etc) only have 1-2 different visual designs? Why not copy over the table of all the awesome designs in the game over from the old base item types? The old full plates e.g. can still drop in some of the old quest chains (like Sharn). Same goes for chain mails, brigandines, hide armors etc. The loot update would have been the perfect time to put those old designs back into the pool.

8) I think the +0 bonuses have already been discussed a lot, just listing them here since I've found a ton of these, they're not even rare.

9) Now there's one thing that I absolutely love. And that's the fact that you can now get lore and spell power from other items than weapons. Got a neat combustion and fire lore ring for my sorceress.

10) Some of the names and descriptions feel rushed and unfinished. "Chaos Weapon effect"? Almost no descriptions? It kind of feels like an early test stage compared to the original item properties.

In conclusion, I'd say: The old system was better. The only new thing that really stood out as useful to me was the fact that you could now get implement bonuses, spell power and lore items from other things than weapons. That's really good for some builds. Other than that, it mostly just chaos, unpolished and unbalanced.

<This

I've no beef with upping the power of lootgen slightly, increment by increment. Itr's been done in the past, with new effects being added temporarily or permanently (the old buttressing armors and lacerating weapons com to mind). Usually those changes showed signs of having a measure of thought and regard to balance behind them, and a lot of the more powerful items bound on equip. Here, instead, we see sweeping changes with some pretty insane effects that seems to have been added without any regard to what type of object. There are display errors, weird language in descriptions, all leading me to believe the "update" is very very far to WAI and/or a sloppy mess of an attempt at scripting that should never have gone live in the first place.

I realize that the reason this got pushed out might very well have to do with quarterly reports, pressure from WB and Christmas bonuses, and I don't see a point in flaming the dev-team. Regardless, this needs to be undone and replaced imho. Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing the loot gen updae scrapped altogether in favor of some updates to old named loot that hasn't aged well, like the Lordsmarch-stuff.

I'm keeping my level 1 vorpal pet collar of feeding though

[KoobTheProud]

Then ****ing delete the raids and don't waste my time. That is the kind of response they will be getting.

And if everybody who gives them that response leaves DDO the impact on the bottom line will be minimal. The days of elitists dictating to the developers have been over for years now, maybe half a decade.

[Heathir]

Then ****ing delete the raids and don't waste my time. That is the kind of response they will be getting.

Raiding still provides better gear than random lootgen. Past raids aren't as good, but again, raid gear gets effects and more of them then lootgen. 2 to 4 max slots on lootgen, but we see 6 to 8 on raid gear. Yep raid gear will still be better. Older raid gear wont, but thas okay because as they add more raids and more raid gear it will just keep getting better

To put it in context, I am not a casual by any stretch. I ran ee tempest and hox opening day as well as eh shroud, ee was just too laggy. I don't feel threatened by the lootgen items in the slightest. In fact this will increase the number of people I can raid with.

[Iron_Claw]

Raiding still provides better gear than random lootgen. Past raids aren't as good, but again, raid gear gets effects and more of them then lootgen. 2 to 4 max slots on lootgen, but we see 6 to 8 on raid gear. Yep raid gear will still be better. Older raid gear wont, but thas okay because as they add more raids and more raid gear it will just keep getting better

Actually, you are pretty wrong on that point as well.

Legendary gs grants a +14 enhancement bonus to any stat. Random generated can grant a bonus of +15 max.

*** ???

[slarden]

Actually, you are pretty wrong on that point as well.

Legendary gs grants a +14 enhancement bonus to any stat. Random generated can grant a bonus of +15 max.

*** ???

I wouldn't assume the random loot is limited to +15. It's possible on a loot gen weekend we might see +16 since it's based on an engine.

However, making a blanket statement that raid gear is always better or random loot is always better is an absolute statement that is absolutely wrong. I suspect most of my characters will have a mix of random loot and raid gear and I welcome being able to find random loot that is that unique combination I need.

There are raid items you absolutely can't get any other way so I still think raid gear will be very coveted.

It brings back some fun for me.

[Iron_Claw]

I wouldn't assume the random loot is limited to +15. It's possible on a loot gen weekend we might see +16 since it's based on an engine.

However, making a blanket statement that raid gear is always better or random loot is always better is an absolute statement that is absolutely wrong. I suspect most of my characters will have a mix of random loot and lootgen and I welcome being able to find random loot that is that unique combination I need.

There are raid items you absolutely can't get any other way so I still think raid gear will be very coveted.

It brings back some fun for me.

Then it is best to delete all the raids.

[slarden]

Then it is best to delete all the raids.

That is a logical conclusion. I am sure the devs will give that suggestion the appropriate amount of consideration it deserves.

[Nuclear_Elvis]

Not sure if mentioned yet - the new loot gen system is enabling any stat or skill prefix and suffix. In one case, I had a double +0 to two different skills, the prefix being Concentration. I still wanted to verify if zero was really the buff or if the labeling was incorrect due to some error. When I put on the goggles, instead -- my Concentration went up by 7, and the suffix/UMD remained as-is and didn't adjust beyond the 40 it was at. So, something isn't correct in the loot gen system's labeling of stated values, vice actual applied values.

- Another case, a bow had a suffix for reducing melee threat, and we see armor and shield being tagged with things we didn't think they would get. I don't mind a "lottery" system for really good random gear to become possible, and I even argued such prior (max slots possible, and/or increased prefix/suffixes possible with low/lottery odds through tiered system). I also like the idea of "anything could happen" with loot gen, but - with some filters applied if the prefix/suffix are not capable of working when the item is worn (i.e. a melee only effect on a bow).

[Heathir]

Actually, you are pretty wrong on that point as well.

Legendary gs grants a +14 enhancement bonus to any stat. Random generated can grant a bonus of +15 max.

*** ???

Legendary greensteel is epic past life leveling gear, not end game gear. Greensteel fills the niche it is meant to fill. Also greensteel does things again that lootgen cant...aka clickies

[Iron_Claw]

Legendary greensteel is epic past life leveling gear, not end game gear. Greensteel fills the niche it is meant to fill. Also greensteel does things again that lootgen cant...aka clickies

Do i need say more ^^ ?

And, LOL clickies ?

[Heathir]

Wasn't epic greensteel with I level 26 supposed to be epl leveling gear? I know the new armor sets in the legendary raids are excellent, the epic ring out of sky quest has nice stat blend also. I replaced my 2 items with stats that sat in 4 different slots, so now I technically have places to slot in more effects, resists, absorptions, etc

[Careall]

Wild grass guess here that the math change may have something to do with the new numbers we are seeing. The new calculations are (100 + bonus) / 100 % rather than the straight bonus before. This means the +15 and +7 insight Str item is not as powerful as it seems. Start with a base 18 Str. Bonus is (18 - 10) / 2 = +4. Or only a 1.04% lift using (100 + 4) / 100. Add in the +22 item bonus. Str = 40. Bonus is (40-10) / 2 = 15. Percent increase is (100 + 15) / 100 = 1.15%, or only a 0.11% increase. Not significant at all. For anything still using the straight bonus, the +15 is god-like. But otherwise, the lift is pretty small.

I wonder how folks that bought +6 tome within the last year or so feel about +15 and +7 insight items under the new system? A +0.03% lift may not have been worth it.

[Hydian]

Actually, you are pretty wrong on that point as well.

Legendary gs grants a +14 enhancement bonus to any stat. Random generated can grant a bonus of +15 max.

*** ???

You are missing the point that they are making entirely. Lootgen can not have as many stats/effects as raid gear (or even non raid named gear for that matter), so even if it is possible to have one or even two stats at a game breaking +1 higher, the lootgen item will still not have any of the other 4 or 5 stats or effects. You are fixated on one number and not looking at the overall gear. Does it really matter if you have an additional point of strength when you have to give up 4 other stats and effects?


Now, my personal take on things I've seen so far is this...

-Very much like the beginning in terms of item combinations that make no sense. Keen armor? Manyshot greatswords? They just need to put checks on the enhancements to ensure that they aren't going on inappropriate equipment. The wide variety of possible combinations finally makes lootgen interesting again. I'd rather get some vendor trash and lots of interesting combinations than have every set of armor be retributive deathblock or every other weapon be ghostbane.

-The power level is amped up some and that is both good and bad. The comparisons to raid loot are not completely out of bounds, but I think that they are overblown. Raid loot has more going for it and lootgen is too random to count on getting what you want (unless I'm the only one here that doesn't have the secret to pulling what you want). A pass on named gear (not just raid gear) might be warranted. Nothing dramatic...maybe just a base damage boost or a pass to give them more special properties...make them more interesting rather than just more powerful.

-It is about time that lootgen is brought back inline with named gear. There should be choices, not just a simple best in slot. I have something like 20 alts and at least half of their gear is the same. I hope that crafting is brought up so it isn't just a TR mechanic, too.

-Obviously some bugs that need to be worked out like the +0 stuff. Also a few items that might need to be "fixed" or might just require us to look at things for a second before we vendor it. It's not that hard to look before you sell it.

Historically, lootgen had a pool of basic effects to draw from. Named gear pulled from that same pool, could have enhanced damage profiles, sometimes had unique effects added to them, and could have more effects than lootgen. Raid level named gear is simply more powerful at level than non raid gear. As far as I can tell, none of that has changed.

I've been pulling chests at different levels and looking through the auction house and I haven't seen anything that made me drop my currently equipped gear (including in slots currently using old lootgen). I'm sure that I'll find the right combination of stuff at some point, but so far I'm not seeing stuff that blows away my existing gear.

[FestusHood]

I'm wondering just how many of these monstrosities are actually display errors. I found a level 19 helmet with 20 prr and parrying on it. The parrying listed it's insightful save bonus as +8, which is of course stomach churning. When i equipped the item it only gave a +4 bonus to my saves though.

Obviously they will have to fix this item someway. Let's hope they change the description to fit the effect, to keep the item in line with the parrying/riposte effects available at that level from the two named items that have them.

The implement bonuses are off and it seems pretty obvious they will have to get that fixed.

A friend of mine pulled an item of about level 24 or so that had a +7 resistance bonus to spell saves. No doubt that will stack with normal resistance items, as well as all the newer separate little bonuses to individual spell school saves, and individual types of saves. I guess this is their attempt to nullify the saves advantages of paladins.

Personally i pulled a random item with insightful combat mastery +10 on it. Didn't have a chance to test it, but oh my.

To the argument that raid loot is still better because it has more effects on it. How many of those effects are redundant though? Generally you will want a piece of raid loot for maybe a couple of effects, and the rest is frankly just chaff. Just how many times do you need to have deathblock or ghostly or blur on your gear? The choice between whether or not you want raid gear or random is going to come down to weighing whether the random gen having higher stats in the primary attributes you were interested in has more value than the chaff you lose from the raid gear.

A personal example i gave is of taking the Battlerager's Harness from my 20th list of Deathwyrm. I would describe the effects of this belt as 1.12% doublestrike 2. something 3. something 4 something. Now i will apparently be able to find random belts with noticeably higher amounts of doublestrike on them. So would i take, say an extra 5% doublestrike over the three somethings? Yes, in a heartbeat.

I see a lot of very high insightful bonuses to trap skills. Don't think that might throw things regarding trap dc's off a bit?

Some sincere thoughts. We all have been told by people that what we do is a waste of time. We generally shrug these comments off because we enjoy what we are doing. Like any hobbyist, we consider our activities within our chosen game to have some level of importance. Not life or death importance of course, but important enough to motivate us to want to do them. It's not a good idea to make people think that their activities are pointless WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE GAME. This is a different thing than gaming in general being pointless. It can be the genuine doom for a game.

I know there are a lot of people who are thrilled by the idea that the loot system has been inverted, with random loot becoming the main goal, and raid and named loot becoming the filler items. There are certainly many people who are not happy about this, and i'm one of them.

Also want to point out that the previous ghostbaned loot was very interesting when it was first introduced as well. After a bit though, you start seeing the same things over and over, and the loot becomes uninteresting. The exact same thing will happen with this. I was already feeling it last night, and i only ran a total of two quests. Already seeing the pattern of some spell power, some insightful spell power, yada yada. The auction house on Argo was filled with what should have been amazing items, all cheap for plat, because after one day they had already become super abundant.

[Saekee]

Well--has any endgame builders actually inserted new lootgen into their gearing layout? I have some swap stuff and will leave open a slot or two.

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

Then it is best to delete all the raids.

Or.. don't run them. If your sole motivation to run raids is to get the best loot, there's no need to spoil everyone else's fun just cause you're sulky.

I'm fine with the new loot. I've barely played since the last two updates, and that- not the new raids- is what's sparking my interest. There's room for some tweaking, but frankly the fact that I'm actually looking at random-gen stuff instead of just hitting "add all + sell" is a huge plus.