The new random loot is insane

[Ayseifn]

I will now need:
- +15 Intelligence item
- +7 Insightful Intelligence item

- +10 Insightful Search Swap Item
- +10 Insightful Disable Device Swap Item

That's it.

Most high level named items have a ton of bonuses on them that are close to what lootgen can give. Lower levels is where things are goofy, and it's doubly bad there as it's not needed.

Saw a +67 Enhancement(?)/30(implement)/35(insight) spell power weapon with a min level of 10 or 11 which is crazy power creep, old school epic items are +78-90/18-21/0 and named raid items from that level range have +48/15 at best/0.

Heroic just got way easier again and if the devs do eventually rebalance named loot around this change it'll get even easier.

[Iron_Claw]

Most high level named items have a ton of bonuses on them that are close to what lootgen can give. Lower levels is where things are goofy, and it's doubly bad there as it's not needed.

Saw a +67 Enhancement(?)/30(implement)/35(insight) spell power weapon with a min level of 10 or 11 which is crazy power creep, old school epic items are +78-90/18-21/0 and named raid items from that level range have +48/15 at best/0.

Heroic just got way easier again and if the devs do eventually rebalance named loot around this change it'll get even easier.

I vote for nerfing random gen.

It is not fair for many power players having their newly acquired raid loot made obsolote by common items.

People now don't even have to run raids anymore for that matter. Why should they though ?

They already get the most powerful items from any trash chest. Developers for the sake of good, use your brain.

[legendkilleroll]

Why are people so upset about stats?

I want random loot to have stats, resistance, seeker, dodge etc

Its raid and named items that need to be better and have unique qualities that cant be found on lootgen

[kanordog]

I have a +8str gloves from shadowfell (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Skirmis...ves_(Level_15)) now I found a lvl 16 belt with +8str and +23 spell resistance.
Combustion 87 insightful DD +7... lvl 16, cloak of fire combustion 90 at lvl 15 (ok, I know it has fire lore but I think there's a good chance to get that one on a random loot) so why did I farm the challenges, the raids, the quests?

[kanordog]

pulled a level 23 ring with assassinate +4 and CON 9. Saw Murdering gloves on the ASAH for min leve 25 with Assassinate +5 and insightful assassinate +2, and some other feature.


we said this would be an issue in the lam thread. Well, here we are. I am having fun staring at the loot lists though.

Ridiculous

Did You also farm for http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Assassin%27s_Kiss or http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Assassin%27s_Kiss?

[dunklezhan]

It would be nice to get a 'WAI/not WAI' from a dev at this point. Are we going to see a patch that nerfs the shiny new lootgen we've already pulled (yes please) or not? Need to know - I want to log in and play, but I am wary that I will do so, find some nice gear and swap it on then get hit with a patch later in the week that means I'd have been better off with my old loot. I'm not buying extra bank and bag space just to compensate for that risk!

[Dhalgren]

To me this just feels like the switch from human-planned randgen to algorithmic has not gone well, and the algorithm is not performing.

We have stuff like DC+3 or more at ML 10-12 dropping, and DC+0 stats on items? That seems like a routine which is missing some bounds.

Seems a bit early to call it a change in how loot is handled and characters are to be played, when as far as I can see all it looks like is a mistake.

Here's hoping. Because if this it the new reality on purpose, some dev somewhere needs a slap.

[Iron_Claw]

I have a +8str gloves from shadowfell (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Skirmis...ves_(Level_15)) now I found a lvl 16 belt with +8str and +23 spell resistance.
Combustion 87 insightful DD +7... lvl 16, cloak of fire combustion 90 at lvl 15 (ok, I know it has fire lore but I think there's a good chance to get that one on a random loot) so why did I farm the challenges, the raids, the quests?

Exactly.

I have wasted my ****ing time farming doj/mod and now legendary x/y/z because random gen is overperforming in every way possible.

[Iron_Claw]

Hey developers.

Why the **** is random gen better than every raid item available from previous raids i.e. legendary ?

[LaryTrueman]

On and off casual player here. Leveling up my level 7 character to level 9 yesterday, here are my 2 cents on the new loot system:
On lower levels, the loot doesn't seem too overpowered. But maybe I just wasn't able to find any really good items. What I *can* definitely say though: It's ridiculously unpolished.

1) Every weapon I find is a casting implement, even throwers. There should be a distinction between non-caster weapons and caster weapons, slamming the properties of both all together just makes for an ungodly amount of trash.

2) Handwraps with Doubleshot? How am I going to use that... ever? Doubleshot and Doublestrike should be one property, like they were before. And some distributions of stats are just weird. This also goes for great axes and throwing weapons with caster stats.

3) I haven't found a single dexterity or strength item, not even on the AH, they seem to be super rare now. Instead I found a million int, wis and cha items. It might have something to do with the fact that there's so many more caster stats than melee stats (?), perhaps it's just bad luck on my part.

4) The new loot systems works wonders together with "Quest Reward based on Class" to give you a list of trash every single time you finish a quest. Especially with the new loot, the "Based on Class" Rewards REALLY need an update. So that monks can find shuriken, rogues can find repeating and great crossbows etc. And why are there only armors and wepons? Do classes not need necklaces, rings, belts, boots, ...?

5) The loot system feels very wonky and unpredictable compared to the old one. You can roll trash that needs level 8 and super awesome items that need level 4, and they essentially have the same stats. Whether this is good or bad is debatable I guess.

6) 94% Fortification? Why? So that only tank specs and WF can get a 100% with this item? Fortification should not be in this random list. It just doesn't make any sense.

7) This has been bothering me for a long time now, but why do the better base armors (Skirmish Chainmail, Mountain Plate, etc) only have 1-2 different visual designs? Why not copy over the table of all the awesome designs in the game over from the old base item types? The old full plates e.g. can still drop in some of the old quest chains (like Sharn). Same goes for chain mails, brigandines, hide armors etc. The loot update would have been the perfect time to put those old designs back into the pool.

8) I think the +0 bonuses have already been discussed a lot, just listing them here since I've found a ton of these, they're not even rare.

9) Now there's one thing that I absolutely love. And that's the fact that you can now get lore and spell power from other items than weapons. Got a neat combustion and fire lore ring for my sorceress.

10) Some of the names and descriptions feel rushed and unfinished. "Chaos Weapon effect"? Almost no descriptions? It kind of feels like an early test stage compared to the original item properties.

In conclusion, I'd say: The old system was better. The only new thing that really stood out as useful to me was the fact that you could now get implement bonuses, spell power and lore items from other things than weapons. That's really good for some builds. Other than that, it mostly just chaos, unpolished and unbalanced.

[Iron_Claw]

On and off casual player here. Leveling up my level 7 character to level 9 yesterday, here are my 2 cents on the new loot system:
On lower levels, the loot doesn't seem too overpowered. But maybe I just wasn't able to find any really good items. What I *can* definitely say though: It's ridiculously unpolished.

1) Every weapon I find is a casting implement, even throwers. There should be a distinction between non-caster weapons and caster weapons, slamming the properties of both all together just makes for an ungodly amount of trash.

2) Handwraps with Doubleshot? How am I going to use that... ever? Doubleshot and Doublestrike should be one property, like they were before. And some distributions of stats are just weird. This also goes for great axes and throwing weapons with caster stats.

3) I haven't found a single dexterity or strength item, not even on the AH, they seem to be super rare now. Instead I found a million int, wis and cha items. It might have something to do with the fact that there's so many more caster stats than melee stats (?), perhaps it's just bad luck on my part.

4) The new loot systems works wonders together with "Quest Reward based on Class" to give you a list of trash every single time you finish a quest. Especially with the new loot, the "Based on Class" Rewards REALLY need an update. So that monks can find shuriken, rogues can find repeating and great crossbows etc. And why are there only armors and wepons? Do classes not need necklaces, rings, belts, boots, ...?

5) The loot system feels very wonky and unpredictable compared to the old one. You can roll trash that needs level 8 and super awesome items that need level 4, and they essentially have the same stats. Whether this is good or bad is debatable I guess.

6) 94% Fortification? Why? So that only tank specs and WF can get a 100% with this item? Fortification should not be in this random list. It just doesn't make any sense.

7) This has been bothering me for a long time now, but why do the better base armors (Skirmish Chainmail, Mountain Plate, etc) only have 1-2 different visual designs? Why not copy over the table of all the awesome designs in the game over from the old base item types? The old full plates e.g. can still drop in some of the old quest chains (like Sharn). Same goes for chain mails, brigandines, hide armors etc. The loot update would have been the perfect time to put those old designs back into the pool.

8) I think the +0 bonuses have already been discussed a lot, just listing them here since I've found a ton of these, they're not even rare.

9) Now there's one thing that I absolutely love. And that's the fact that you can now get lore and spell power from other items than weapons. Got a neat combustion and fire lore ring for my sorceress.

10) Some of the names and descriptions feel rushed and unfinished. "Chaos Weapon effect"? Almost no descriptions? It kind of feels like an early test stage compared to the original item properties.

In conclusion, I'd say: The old system was better. The only new thing that really stood out as useful to me was the fact that you could now get implement bonuses, spell power and lore items from other things than weapons. That's really good for some builds. Other than that, it mostly just chaos, unpolished and unbalanced.

Agreed.

They old system was much better + feather of sun did a much better job than the current idiots of so called developers who have no clue about how to design anything at all.

[geoffhanna]

My Gamer Girl got a +16 Spell Lore item and immediately equipped it.

It didn't do anything. Or at least, it didn't change any of her spell critical chances on her character sheet.

So ... overpowered? But not working? Which seems an unexpected combination.

[ric0]

I came back for this update, and just dropped a lvl 16 helm with +8 int and +6 resistance in the orchard, thats stupid crazy, would have been happy with that from an epic chest in the past........

[kanordog]

My Gamer Girl got a +16 Spell Lore item and immediately equipped it.

It didn't do anything. Or at least, it didn't change any of her spell critical chances on her character sheet.

So ... overpowered? But not working? Which seems an unexpected combination.

Insightful skill bonus worked for me, maybe it just a display bug?

[legendkilleroll]

My Gamer Girl got a +16 Spell Lore item and immediately equipped it.

It didn't do anything. Or at least, it didn't change any of her spell critical chances on her character sheet.

So ... overpowered? But not working? Which seems an unexpected combination.

Did you change the effects in the log?

I had an item with 13 doubleshot apparently but equipping it i saw no change, then saw in log it was only giving +7 and i already had 8 on my quiver

[Saekee]

I am not sure why everyone is freaking out about the level 1 vorpal. At that level, a strength based THF character will be close to one-shotting everything anyhow, or at least be killing things faster than the average 20 hits it would take to hit the vorpal effect. Even a wizard wielding a greataxe at level one will likely kill most things in less than 20 hits. The lucky vorpal hits would be cool, but certainly not outclass the masterful crafted flaming burst or just plain +enhancement weapons for those levels.

Yes at level 1 but how about level 7 or 8?

Why are people so upset about stats?

I want random loot to have stats, resistance, seeker, dodge etc

Its raid and named items that need to be better and have unique qualities that cant be found on lootgen

I agree--it is ok having decent stats on lootgen, maybe tone it down slightly. The best named items still have double augment slots and unusual properties

Ridiculous

Did You also farm for http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Assassin%27s_Kiss or http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Assassin%27s_Kiss?

Case in point: eKiss, like an EMG, eSpy Dagger, Rebellion and Agony all have the highly desirable Improved Deception which will not appear on lootgen.

For instakillers in low levels, I add to my Min level 9 Stalker ring the situational Mace of Smiting (construct instakiller) min level 6. The Mace appears in dead Garamol in a raid wilderness (today easy to get) and the ring just requires grinding. But both really require that past life (Stalker for masterful) unless the mace is bought on the AH. (btw the mace rocks! Defenders, golumns, warforged--sooooo nice).

[Qhualor]

Why are people so upset about stats?

I want random loot to have stats, resistance, seeker, dodge etc

Its raid and named items that need to be better and have unique qualities that cant be found on lootgen

right now im seeing a lot of random loot invalidating old random loot as well as named loot. I want random loot to have different effects and interesting, but this will now lead to more power creep. I doubt the devs want named loot to be invalidated or not compelling enough so that means they have to tweak the random loot numbers down or make a pass with named loot. each named item would require personal attention by the devs. the longer this stays live, the more players are going to accumulate this gear and build their characters around it. if the devs wait too long to address the power creep issue than there will be lots of ranting. this is a very good example of why U29 needed another Lama test or 2.

[Heathir]

Here's what I am seeing. The new gear makes it much easier to level a new toon into the 20's. So in other words, because of the loot it's easier to bring a fresh toon up to end game powerlevel. If the devs want to begin focusing more on an end game then they have to find a way to bring the playing field to a more median level. The loot firmly accomplished that.

Let's look at the things that have a small effect on the game:

+30 hp
+3 conj focus
+3 attack/+3 tactical
+30% heal amp
+6 ranged dmg/+6 elemental resists
+6 saves/+3 sneak dmg
+3 Evo focus/+60 sp
+6 spell pen/+60 sp
+3 damage rolls
+9 mrr
+2 all stats (why does everyone wear an epic litany?)

+9% elemental absorption
+27 prr

+15% fortification
+30 light/alignment spell power/+9 positive spell power
+9 prr
+3% dodge

I can totally see where that doesn't create a big power gap. The gear changes don't invalidate those power levels, it minimalizes them. This means it's easier for the devs to create content for ALL gamer types because the average power level is more normalized with the gear changes.

[Iron_Claw]

Here's what I am seeing. The new gear makes it much easier to level a new toon into the 20's. So in other words, because of the loot it's easier to bring a fresh toon up to end game powerlevel. If the devs want to begin focusing more on an end game then they have to find a way to bring the playing field to a more median level. The loot firmly accomplished that.

Let's look at the things that have a small effect on the game:

+30 hp
+3 conj focus
+3 attack/+3 tactical
+30% heal amp
+6 ranged dmg/+6 elemental resists
+6 saves/+3 sneak dmg
+3 Evo focus/+60 sp
+6 spell pen/+60 sp
+3 damage rolls
+9 mrr
+2 all stats (why does everyone wear an epic litany?)

+9% elemental absorption
+27 prr

+15% fortification
+30 light/alignment spell power/+9 positive spell power
+9 prr
+3% dodge

I can totally see where that doesn't create a big power gap. The gear changes don't invalidate those power levels, it minimalist them. This means it's easier for the devs to create content for ALL gamer types because the average power level is more normalized with the gear changes.

Yea, right. Someone who doesn't run raids is allowed to have items equally or more powerful than raid gear.

You can't fool anyone here.

[Heathir]

Non raiders can't get the spread of stats and effects raiders get. I have a mythic +2 breastplate of the celestial sage. It is not awe inspiring but it consolidates a ton of effects, stats. That beats out an loot Gen there is. So yeah non raiders can't get gear as good as mine.

But that non raider that wants to start raiding will be a fully productive raider when he decides to change from casual to raider.


Raiders are still going to be stronger than casuals. That is not a grey area at all. Raiders will have better gear consolidation, so more effects and better effects. Raiders will have more past life and completionist feats, so more raw power.

The only real effect is a group of 12 casual players can break the glass ceiling easier with the new gear pass and become hardcore raiders without needing a years build up.