We have lowered the overall difficulty of the New Content

[MistaMagic]

Hi All

This raid is supposed to be End Game, I sure as hell don't want it completed on LE 1st day out as if we can beat it 1st day we are just totally waisting out time with carrying on.
Now to all the people saying that LE is to hard then should not be running it that is why there is LH and LN.
To me LE is for End Game toons NOT a lvl30 1st lifer who has to be carried so that he/she can get a better end reward. A lot of us have put in a lot of years of work to get toons that are very capable and to have End Game taken away because of whiners is NOT good sport.
What will happen is that if the game difficulty is lowered to appease the whiners then good players will no longer have the promised end game and leave.
As the old saying goes "If you cant stand the Heat stay OUT the kitchen"

[Qezuzu]

Hi All

This raid is supposed to be End Game, I sure as hell don't want it completed on LE 1st day out as if we can beat it 1st day we are just totally waisting out time with carrying on.
Now to all the people saying that LE is to hard then should not be running it that is why there is LH and LN.
To me LE is for End Game toons NOT a lvl30 1st lifer who has to be carried so that he/she can get a better end reward. A lot of us have put in a lot of years of work to get toons that are very capable and to have End Game taken away because of whiners is NOT good sport.
What will happen is that if the game difficulty is lowered to appease the whiners then good players will no longer have the promised end game and leave.
As the old saying goes "If you cant stand the Heat stay OUT the kitchen"

Even if mobs hit for 100k a hit it will still be completed on LE the first day it comes out, because it's too easily completed with strong ranged damage.

This is exactly why people are saying "poorly designed" not "too hard, pls gib elite completion "

[blerkington]

Even if mobs hit for 100k a hit it will still be completed on LE the first day it comes out, because it's too easily completed with strong ranged damage.

This is exactly why people are saying "poorly designed" not "too hard, pls gib elite completion "

Hi,

Yep, and in the next raid, we can have mobs hitting for 200k each. That will make the raid even more 'difficult', right?

At some point other things have to be looked at for adding difficulty than just increasing mob damage. I'd prefer that be sooner rather than later.

Thanks.

[Captain_Wizbang]

I can picture the videos now. (flashbacks of Cetus's videos)

LE Shroud, with people ranging, and jumping around like Mario Bros.

Jumping and kiting is NOT what we need to be doing, but if the numbers discussed are that bad(?) then I for one will never run LE.

Make it as hard as possible YES, but history has proven that raising the dmg and dmg mitigation of monsters is NOT a solution.

If this IS the case, we will see more people leave than come back.

[Jasparion]

You know - I can't believe the Devs caved this quick myself - Maybe, just maybe there was really an issue that actually needed fixing?

But also - Legendary is going to be the DDO End-Game right?
So maybe the Devs want to ease players into it with a way to get Legendary Gear for later super difficult Legendary Quests and Raids?
Maybe Legendary Shroud, HoX and Tempest Spine are the Korthos of Legendary Content and we'll see the Devs go all out next year on super difficult Legendary Content that if you don't have the Gear from LShroud, LHoX and LTS you're not going to be able to get past the first room in?

Or maybe I'm just dreaming.

That would be awesome. 3 new raids in July !

[MistaMagic]

Hi,

Yep, and in the next raid, we can have mobs hitting for 200k each. That will make the raid even more 'difficult', right?

At some point other things have to be looked at for adding difficulty than just increasing mob damage. I'd prefer that be sooner rather than later.

Thanks.

Astri you know my toons but not this forum name, I do agree with what you are saying BUT atm mobs hitting for 200k should be kept until then can do something else, lowering there damage is not a solution although it does make the raid easier. It can be done as they altered the layout of DOJ so there is some hope they can do something in Shroud.
The problem that I see atm is that if they lower the mob damage and do nothing else it will set a BAD example of whiners getting the wrong things done by the DEVS. This is not EE its END GAME and as such should have been built that way.

Ozz

[MistaMagic]

Now who remembers when FOT 1st came out?, on Kyber it took something like a month maybe 2 before EE was completed and I did have a toon in that. This is what we should be looking for

[slarden]

It turns out the devs didn't actually lower yet.

/signed

I am not a fan of one-shotting. I mostly agree with people's complaints other types of challenge would be preferable, but I also think this is our first Legendary release and the devs should err on the side of too difficult. Especially since people haven't yet mastered/optimized characters with all the new feats,power, gear etc.

Flashback 2012. Epic Elite was new and powergamers were complaining it was too hard. I read people saying this the day after my level 22 sorc completed EE chronoscope with a group of under-leveled characters on Sarlona trying to fill our destines and get XP to make it to 25.

The devs caved and made EE easier. Shortly after the player base got their destinies filled, had twists, figured out the optimal combos for things, started getting CITW gear, etc. and soon after people were complaining EE was too easy.

I think the suggestions to add different type of difficulties is good, but I don't see it happening before U29 so I think the devs should release U29 with LE shroud and the terri-bad damage #s coming from enemies there. The devs can see how the players adapt to it for a month and then rework the raid based on more feedback.

But I think the bar needs to be set high for LE raids and if the best they can come up with for now is mobs one-shotting everyone but end-game tanks so be it... for now at least... I didn't particularly like DOJ being just a DPS test - but I accepted. Not sure how my 3 melees will do in LE shroud, but I accept it.

[slarden]

Now who remembers when FOT 1st came out?, on Kyber it took something like a month maybe 2 before EE was completed and I did have a toon in that. This is what we should be looking for

Well on Sarlona we were 3-4 manning the week it came out on EE - once we figured out get an evasion tank, an ioun stone and as many back up scarab of spell absorptions as we can get lol. We did wipe sometimes - a couple of quick deaths would doom us, but we got really good at it really quick.

I loved that raid because if you did everything perfect it was a simple easy raid, but if you didn't execute it was brutal.

Here is the thing, adding more people made that raid harder not easier because it was the bad decisions by people that made the raid hard not the enemies.

Then we learned there was a ledge trick and everyone was using that for easy EE completions until it was fixed - totally ruined it for me.

[MistaMagic]

But I think the bar needs to be set high for LE raids and if the best they can come up with for now is mobs one-shotting everyone but end-game tanks so be it... for now at least... I didn't particularly like DOJ being just a DPS test - but I accepted. Not sure how my 3 melees will do in LE shroud, but I accept it.

Totally agree

[Basura_Grande]

Now who remembers when FOT 1st came out?, on Kyber it took something like a month maybe 2 before EE was completed and I did have a toon in that. This is what we should be looking for

we beat it the first night on Ghallanda. Just like we'll beat all these stupid new raids even if they remain broken,.

[blerkington]

Astri you know my toons but not this forum name, I do agree with what you are saying BUT atm mobs hitting for 200k should be kept until then can do something else, lowering there damage is not a solution although it does make the raid easier. It can be done as they altered the layout of DOJ so there is some hope they can do something in Shroud.
The problem that I see atm is that if they lower the mob damage and do nothing else it will set a BAD example of whiners getting the wrong things done by the DEVS. This is not EE its END GAME and as such should have been built that way.

Ozz

Hi,

Thanks for letting me know who you are. That bit of context helps me understand your remarks better because I know you're a good player and a sensible guy, not some anonymous forum sock puppet trolling people for fun.

Yes, I agree with you that doing nothing to improve difficulty for a raid which was too easy is probably worse for hard core players than tuning up the damage output of mobs. However, I don't want this to become the only method for making LE quests and raids hard because I think it's very cheap.

What I would like to come out of this discussion is an understanding that they've made a mistake, and not to design more content like this. I have no problem with trash mobs being dangerous in elite content, but I think it's gone too far this time. I would like to see this new content seriously revisited after it's released but I don't think that's going to happen.

Anyway, nice talking to you again.

Thanks.

[sirgog]

All I can say is, if this is beaten on elite on release day, the update will have been a failure.

Heroic Shroud wasn't beaten on Elite until a full week longer than was required (back then you used to have someone with a hard completion and there were no raid exploit timers, so it could not be attempted until about the 6th day, but IIRC it wasn't beaten until the 13th or 14th day).

I was seriously disappointed when I led the gamewide first EE Fall of Truth (on the test server) and beat it on our second attempt - while playing my ungeared first life spellsinger.

[Jasparion]

Your optimism is impressive. Another lama build? I'm expecting an announcement within the next few hours saying that U29 is going live tomorrow morning.

Winner, Winner. Well played.

The problem is, deep down we all knew it was coming, but had hoped that they would wait until they had at least a couple of sensible solutions to reasonable requests.

Still, we are going to be TRing after tonight (hopefully) so it will be left to others to run content and lodge bug reports.

[KLJJ]

Destinies made everyone a caster... a caster with SR ignoring no save spells. The game got turned into super casual mode the day destinies got released. There is really no coming back from that anymore than there was any coming back from 4E's everyone-has-no-save-CC-powers that made paragon and epic tier 4E a total joke where the DM could never challenge the players and everyone quit in disgust at what a mess D&D had become.