Dwarf D-axe dual-wielding reincarnation advice

[Rockknocker]

I have a dwarf Ranger 11 / Fighter 8 / Artificer 1 build. He is back at level 20 after his second epic reincarnation (Martial + Divine). I have a shedload of dwarven war-axes, which he dual-wields. He has appropriate gear (incl. Thunderforged) and a fighter and an artificer past life. I want to Lesser Reincarnate him.

The initial STR-based build logic was to get as much damage as possible (with complementary ‘to hit’) from Dwarf (axes), Kensei (WS) and Tempest (TWF) .... and he got a lot of that. On the way he got 20% dodge (with gear) and the Melee speed action boost (he uses this a LOT) + extra Action Boosts on Tier 1 Kensei. The reason for 8-Fighter was to reach tier 5 for Keen Edge, plus because fighter was a better option than (his earlier) Tier 5 Tempest with its (previously) expensive enhancements (some were 2 AP versus 1 AP in Kensei) and long cool-down times for advanced enhancements. The artificer level was to max UMD plus to get tier 1 Wand and Scroll Mastery, since I anticipated (rightly) that self-healing would be an issue.

With the new updates the build is no longer valid. My reasoning for his LR is (given his existing weapons and gear):

Ranger 14 / Fighter 3 / Paladin 3
Base Abilities: S 16 / D 10 / C 20 / I 10 / W 10 / Ch 10
+6 tomes in place on all abilities

1) Since Overwhelming Critical is no longer strength dependant, his STR is lowered from 18 to 16 and he can become CON-focussed (base 20), benefiting from ‘Throw Your Weight Around’ and getting buckets more HP at the expense of 'to hit'.
2) Focus more on Ranger (11 goes to 14; Tempest enhancement AP costs reduced; gains Cure Critical Wounds. Also the TWF feats plus Ranger evasion, and improved Tempest evasion enhancements. I don't see much advantage to going above 14 Ranger, unless going Pure.
3) With Cure Critical Wounds (plus cocoon), the need for the Artificer level hopefully (?) falls away. HMMMM?
4) Fighter (Kensei) seems still to be valid for the Action increases/Melee speed, plus Weapon Specialisation, but with reduced fighter levels.
5) Dwarf still gets him needed CON/HPs plus weapon improvements on the way to Throw YWA. Kensei gives also gives melee benefits, but no CON advances. Tempest has benefits for dual wielding and various other needs such as dodge and specialised TWF melee attacks(to Tier 5).

He now needs enhanced defence capabilities, PRR/MRR, saves and more CON. Stalwart defender helps with the former two. CON only comes at tier 3. More Threat would be nice (for playing in a team with my wife’s casters). Saves and threat could come from Pally.

Pally also gets him saves (his base CHA is 10 then +6 tome / +8 gear). Question 1; Why might it be better to dump Pally, dump CHA (and UMD), plus dump 2 INT, so as to be able to increase STR ('to hit') from base 16 to 18, and Ranger from 14 to 17? Seems to be a small gain for all the disadvantages.

Question 2: I struggle with intuitive insight into build options, so any advice would be sincerely appreciated. Please remember his current build and the Hearts of Wood required. I do have a +20 HoW available, but no others.

[unbongwah]

I don't see much advantage to going above 14 Ranger, unless going Pure.

Rgr 15 gets you a 2nd lvl 4 spell slot; that lets you have both FoM and CSW. It also gets you a 4th Favored Enemy, which also means +2 dmg to all FEs (+8 total).

3) With Cure Critical Wounds (plus cocoon), the need for the Artificer level hopefully (?) falls away. HMMMM?

Rgrs and pallies only get CSW not CCW.

4) Fighter (Kensei) seems still to be valid for the Action increases/Melee speed, plus Weapon Specialisation, but with reduced fighter levels.
5) Dwarf still gets him needed CON/HPs plus weapon improvements on the way to Throw YWA. Kensei gives also gives melee benefits, but no CON advances. Tempest has benefits for dual wielding and various other needs such as dodge and specialised TWF melee attacks(to Tier 5).

I think when you plan out your APs, you'll find you spend so much in dwarf, Tempest, and DWS that you won't have enough left over for more than a splash of Kensei or Stalwart D.

In terms of DPS, pure rgr is really strong right now, but kinda squishy and saves can be a problem. So if you want a MCed build to bump up survivability, I would suggest a dwarf variant on Noyellowbar: stick w/STR+CHA-based for higher melee DPS & saves. TYWA isn't worth the AP cost. Another option (which I mention in that thread) is ditching ftr splash for FvS or cleric instead: gets you cheaper access to Divine Might (tho it uses SPs instead of TUs) so you can ditch KotC and invest more in rgr, racial, or Sacred D. Although in your case, LRing is complicated by the fact you're already a triple-class build; here's an example of how to do it.

[Rockknocker]

Rgr 15 gets you a 2nd lvl 4 spell slot; that lets you have both FoM and CSW. It also gets you a 4th Favored Enemy, which also means +2 dmg to all FEs (+8 total).

Rgrs and pallies only get CSW not CCW.

I think when you plan out your APs, you'll find you spend so much in dwarf, Tempest, and DWS that you won't have enough left over for more than a splash of Kensei or Stalwart D.

In terms of DPS, pure rgr is really strong right now, but kinda squishy and saves can be a problem. So if you want a MCed build to bump up survivability, I would suggest a dwarf variant on Noyellowbar: stick w/STR+CHA-based for higher melee DPS & saves. TYWA isn't worth the AP cost. Another option (which I mention in that thread) is ditching ftr splash for FvS or cleric instead: gets you cheaper access to Divine Might (tho it uses SPs instead of TUs) so you can ditch KotC and invest more in rgr, racial, or Sacred D. Although in your case, LRing is complicated by the fact you're already a triple-class build; here's an example of how to do it.

Many thanks for your prompt and very useful reply.
I spent many hours on the CharGen and decided to throw caution to the wind. I ended up with the CON build, no Divine Might, 3 Paladin and 1 Fighter. His Lvl 20 Abilities (+5 tomes) after enhancement application are 23 STR and 33 CON (no gear)

Naturally the dwarf race got me the basic racial CON advantage. Indeed the dwarf Enh tree cost me 18 AP, as you noted, from which I gained another +2 CON, +30 HP, +4 hit and +5 damage (dwarven axes), +2 saves vs spells, and TYWA (another +1 to hit and damage from the +2 CON; and another +1 to both from the dwarf basic racial CON advantage). As a result I took only Core 1 of Knight of Chalice (getting +1 hit and various saves), thereby besides divine might (saving 13 AP), also losing 10 healing amp, and 10% healing from the Human tree (saving 3AP). I therefore 'made up' 16 AP in the process (13 + 3 ... down 2AP in total at the end of the day). With his 16 CHA (+ hopefully 7/8 from gear), Divine Might would have got him temporary +7 Ins STR for 120 secs per TU. If I am not mistaken this would give +7 to hit and to damage.

In other words, the CON/dwarf option versus the human/Divine Might option comes out to about the same damage benefits, except that the dwarf's is permanent. The dwarf loses out on 'to hit' and on healing amp, but I take it from many of your past posts that this should not be a serious issue (he has 23 STR - without gear or EDs). I know it will be difficult to work Accuracy into his gear setup should that STR not be enough. The lower healing amp worries me. Obviously the counterbalance (?) is that the dwarf gains HP and Fort.

If the build turns out to be a flop, I will at least have oiled my build skills a bit, and benefited from your and Eth's experience. I am sure that I can drag him through to lvl 28 again, with the help of my wife's druid :-) I can then try a real NYB build but will obviously need a TR to change race, whether to the newer Pally version or to the older ranger one..

Contrary to the experience related in post #58 of Noyellowbar, I found that the Haste action boosts from Tempest and from Fighter were in fact on the same timer/counter. Somehow I am not surprised. I am currently searching for a 'cheaper' way to boost action points rather than via the Kensei tier 1 facility which costs 6 AP.

Once again, many thanks.

[unbongwah]

Contrary to the experience related in post #58 of Noyellowbar, I found that the Haste action boosts from Tempest and from Fighter were in fact on the same timer/counter.

Yes, the original NYB is an old build; when U19 first came out, Tempest and Kensei Haste Boost had separate counters, so you could have twice as many Haste Boosts. Obviously, that got patched out sooner rather than later.

[adrian69]

Contrary to the experience related in post #58 of Noyellowbar, I found that the Haste action boosts from Tempest and from Fighter were in fact on the same timer/counter. Somehow I am not surprised. I am currently searching for a 'cheaper' way to boost action points rather than via the Kensei tier 1 facility which costs 6 AP.

.

Barbs get extra action boost for 1 AP, (and are better still than rangers IMO-that's a different thread), LD has them for cheap. I am not sure, but I thought one of the TF weapons renewed ABs, but I haven't ever made one personally, so I can't say for sure. That's about all I can think of.

I agree with Ubongwah that a min 15/2-3 pally split would be more preferable. 4 would even be better. Rangers get enough feats and 15-4 pally-1 ftr would allow for Divine Might without having to twist undead turning from DC and it would allow for up 3 more to saves, and you can take a feat free cleave.