Is 2000+ damage a swing from trash mobs WAI?

[Holymunchkin]

Ya Trudh likes spamming and not replying
=p

[Jasparion]

They worked through the 3 raids on ELITE... Elite should be super tough... 50% of groups should fail. I have zero problem with Elite being too tough. Even broken. Beating elite should be a high-five moment. Unexpected. "Wow, we actually beat it."

if normal has mobs hitting 1500 a hit, then we can talk.

Should Elite mean only ranged toons are able to succeed? Is there a place for Divine casters other than Druids? Should every Rogue re-spec and go Mechanic? Every Ranger re-spec and go AA/DWS? Bring back Bowbarians?

What was the class breakdown of the group that managed to do all the raids on LE?

Can we guess how many melees were in that group?

[warryofjerry]

People who never play EE's or LE's should not be allowed to express their opinion as they clearly have no clue what they are talking about.

[nokowi]

LOL

The solution to the OP mess that we have at the moment is to give melees EVEN MORE PRR instead of just lowering mobs' damage? LOL


I almost spit the coffee that I don't drink on the screen.

U29 is not OP. It will be nerfed, resulting in easy cheese builds, because players can't accept the changes that would allow challenge.



Nerfing top PRR or lowering the PRR curve (along with less mob damage) would serve the same purpose as my proposal (allowing tanks), but my proposal keeps ranged toons challenged.

Which do you think would be more popular, nerfs or boosts?

I would have preferred if PRR never topped 30% mitigation, but that ship sailed a long time ago.

[nokowi]

This time I have to disagree. More prr/mrr won't solve the issue imho.

As well I don't see the whole point of armor up update. It is being invalidate completely with new legendary stuff.

Armor up (plus MRR) was intended to allow heavy armor toons on EE content.

Its beyond me how players can't comprehend that devs are not going to remove PRR. Complaining serves no purpose.

Look to solutions from where we are now.

More PRR with the current damage setting WOULD provide challenge.

1. Low PRR toons (moved from 100 to 150) can now survive 2 hits.
2. Tanks (moved from 200-250 to 250-300) can survive 1-2 more hits.
3. Ranged toons are challenged.

Which of these is FALSE?

[BigErkyKid]

Armor up (plus MRR) was intended to allow heavy armor toons on EE content.

Its beyond me how players can't comprehend that devs are not going to remove PRR. Complaining serves no purpose.

Look to solutions from where we are now.

More PRR with the current damage setting WOULD provide challenge.

1. Low PRR toons (moved from 100 to 150) can now survive 2 hits.
2. Tanks (moved from 200-250 to 250-300) can survive 1-2 more hits.
3. Ranged toons are challenged.

Which of these is FALSE?

3 is FALSE. Ranged toons are not particularly challenged by melee damage, they just have to kite more carefully.

I wouldn't like the raid if it 2 shot stuff either. I don't think that having mobs do that constantly is the right way to have challenge. Some special mobs might do that, but not just all the trash.

[nokowi]

3 is FALSE. Ranged toons are not particularly challenged by melee damage, they just have to kite more carefully.

I wouldn't like the raid if it 2 shot stuff either. I don't think that having mobs do that constantly is the right way to have challenge. Some special mobs might do that, but not just all the trash.

As a 100 PRR melee toon with 1040 HP, I deal with 2 shots all the time on current EE content.

Whats the big deal?

Ranged toons are challenged in the current U29 raids.

Ranged toons have kiting AND ottos whistler. Use those tools.

[Rys]

3 is FALSE. Ranged toons are not particularly challenged by melee damage, they just have to kite more carefully.

Your idea of ranged often seem very idealized.

[Thrudh]

I see it like this:

No matter how you build your melee toon, how much prr/dodge/defenses etc you have, how much work you put in to your build, you will be one-shot, when mob hit you. If you know that he WILL hit you, because there's no way to achieve 100% miss chance or even 80%, you are not threatened by this. You know that you will die, and it's just matter of time. You have to accept this, or don't run this raids/quests.

I have a question for you. If you know, that no matter what you will do, mob kills you with one shot, you will care about your defenses? About more past lives which require lot of effort?

Because I don't. It's wasted time.

I answered the question in that thread (although not directly), but I do it again here I guess.

Regarding what you wrote... Is that the situation? Does everyone die every single time a mob hits them? I've been asking that, and no one has answered. Is it only certain mobs? Is it only sometimes? How often is sometimes? 30% of the time when a mob hits, you die no matter what your HP or PRR? 75%? You posted a question asking how I would build my character if it was 100% of the time. I agree with you that I wouldn't care about HP or PRR at that point.

But is that the actual situation or something you made up? If it's 30% of the time, or maybe only certain mobs, I will still care about HP and PRR. I will learn tactics to deal with those certain mobs, or team with others so together we can take them down, even if one or two of us die in the process.

This is ELITE end-game raid. I have no problem with being forced to team in order to complete a ELITE end-game raid.

Now, look... I agree with all of you that single-shot deaths are a cheap form of challenge.. But there's nothing wrong with it happening some of the time. I do really like some of the suggestions put forth, and hope the devs act on them. I just don't want to the devs to over-react and make Legendary Elite end-game raid too easy.

I saw people freaking out because they died (how many times? 3? 10? 30?) on their FIRST time through a LEGENDARY ELITE raid, and immediately coming here and calling for the devs to make it easier. Since then, we've seen much more focused feedback and good suggestions...I hope the devs can implement some of those.

[Jasparion]

As a 100 PRR melee toon with 1040 HP, I deal with 2 shots all the time on current EE content.

Whats the big deal?

Ranged toons have kiting AND ottos whistler. Use those tools.

Because 2 shot allows for healing in-between. And people with 1500 HP and 150 PRR melee toons require 3 or 4 shots to take down.

From what people are saying is that 1500 HP and 150 PRR toons will get 1-shot in the new content.

So it sounds like the solution to the problem is for melee to pike and allow the ranged guys to take care of everything? You dont want things fixed so that melee can actually participate in LE content?

[nokowi]

Because 2 shot allows for healing in-between. And people with 1500 HP and 150 PRR melee toons require 3 or 4 shots to take down.

From what people are saying is that 1500 HP and 150 PRR toons will get 1-shot in the new content.

So it sounds like the solution to the problem is for melee to piek and allow the ranged guys to take care of everything? You dont want things fixed so that melee can actually participate in LE content?

The posted damage numbers were 1800 Damage with only 50 PRR.

I posted a solution for melee (give melee 40 more PRR), which would not even 1 shot a low PRR toon with low HP.

Do people even read a thread?


There are MANY other solutions, such as having Legendary GS add 300-400 HP. Too bad you can't even have a discussion on the forums.

[Holymunchkin]

The posted damage numbers were 1800 Damage with only 50 PRR.

I posted a solution for melee (give melee 40 more PRR), which would not even 1 shot a low PRR toon with low HP.

Do people even read a thread?

There are MANY other solutions, such as having Legendary GS add 300-400 HP. Too bad you can't even have a discussion on the forums.

Before you get ahead of yourself, I posted the numbers.

Some common mobs (Orthon's, Protectors) hit for 3k. (Sometimes a little higher.)

150 PRR means you take 40% of 3000.
That is 1200 damage. So a paladin or Barb (presumably) can take one hit leaving them at 300 hp. The next one they take (from any mob) will kill them.
Jas is exageratting a bit but not by much.

If you gave a 100 PRR monk with 1.2k hp 40 more PRR and a 300HP GS item he would be in the same boat as a barb, with about 15% more dodge presumably (which is noticable but honestly not that big).

[nokowi]

Before you get ahead of yourself, I posted the numbers.

Some common mobs (Orthon's, Protectors) hit for 3k. (Sometimes a little higher.)

150 PRR means you take 40% of 3000.
That is 1200 damage. So a paladin or Barb (presumably) can take one hit leaving them at 300 hp. The next one they take (from any mob) will kill them.
Jas is exageratting a bit but not by much.

If you gave a 100 PRR monk with 1.2k hp 40 more PRR and a 300HP GS item he would be in the same boat as a barb, with about 15% more dodge presumably (which is noticable but honestly not that big).

I play the lowest end of the spectrum (PRR/HP) at level 28 with 100 PRR and 1040 HP. 40 more PRR with level 30 and 300 HP from Epic GS can keep you from getting one-shotted.

140 PRR (41.67% of 3000) = 1250 damage

Take my current 1040 Hp, add 2 levels and 3 more HP per level from (14 con + 7 insight). This gives 1186 HP plus the hit points from a shroud item.

300 HP on epic GS (with 40 more PRR for melee) would indeed do the trick on a well built toon, even on a low PRR toon in a low HP destiny.

It would even be enough on a 100 PRR toon (just barely).

[Basura_Grande]

I play the lowest end of the spectrum (PRR/HP) at level 28 with 100 PRR and 1040 HP). 40 more PRR with level 30 and 200 HP from Epic GS can keep you from getting one-shotted.

140 PRR (41.67% of 3000) = 1250 damage

Take my current 1040 Hp, add 2 levels and 3 more HP per level from (14 con + 7 insight). This gives 1186 HP plus the hit points from a shroud item.

300 HP on epic GS (with 40 more PRR for melee) would indeed do the trick on a well built toon, even on a low PRR toon in a low HP destiny.

Renders in EE Hox hit my 140+ PRR toon for over 1700 so I think about 400 Barbarian PLs might be needed

[nokowi]

Renders in EE Hox hit my 140 PRR toon for over 1700 so I think about 400 Barbarian PLs might be needed

I hope your barb has more than 1040 Hp at level 28...

That's be 40 past lives.

[Basura_Grande]

I hope your barb has more than 1040 Hp at level 28...

That's be 40 past lives.

Tempest and at 30 buffed HP was over 1300.

[Starla70]

All of these one hit kills are why I pretty much have decided not to play the new stuff. I do not like dying or using all my sp to rez people. Now if everyone wants to die so much in quests fine with me. Does not mean I even have to bother.

I know I will get jumped on, and even know by who. I do not care. I am over the typical answers or the personal attacks. Point is I do not have to play the new stuff. I do wish the Dev's would stop creeping into the other quests so that even giants now in GH Epic elite are hitting for 1,000 plus. I can see it on a end boss, not just a wondering monster.

I could not get into lamannia this time, every time I could, it was shut down.

[Jasparion]

All of these one hit kills are why I pretty much have decided not to play the new stuff. I do not like dying or using all my sp to rez people. Now if everyone wants to die so much in quests fine with me. Does not mean I even have to bother.

I dont mind dying in hard content. If Im not dying then its not hard.

What I do mind is game mechanics which effectively push you to a select few builds.

We had been doing really well with balance in recent times. Melee, ranged and (sort of) casters being playable in all the content. But now it looks like we are heading back to the bad times where certain builds really are unplayable by anyone other than complete masochists (and will generally find themselves not invited to PUGs).

[Starla70]

I dont mind dying in hard content. If Im not dying then its not hard.

What I do mind is game mechanics which effectively push you to a select few builds.

We had been doing really well with balance in recent times. Melee, ranged and (sort of) casters being playable in all the content. But now it looks like we are heading back to the bad times where certain builds really are unplayable by anyone other than complete masochists (and will generally find themselves not invited to PUGs).

I agree with you here. I refuse to play a monk splash, period. It is just not happening. It seems that is the answer to any issue you have, just splash monk. I think it was far more blanced before they tried ot balance it then it is now. I don't mind a death or two. That is to be expected. It becomes a issue to me when to do the quest the people I have gamed with here suddenly are dying 5 or more times per quest. Now these are at least epic completionists, have all the best gear, but still the changes made recently is totally not balanced. That is the issue I have, and not just me, but those other players, who do not get on the forums, since they do not want to play the game on the forums, or get torn apart because they have a different idea.

[KLJJ]

Time to give mobs striding, reach, free attacks against ranged attacks used in melee and halving ranged characters movement rather than letting them double move and attack. You know... like how DnD does it.