Is 2000+ damage a swing from trash mobs WAI?

[Dreppo]

Disintegrate is force damage. MRR does not affect force damage.

Disintegrate is untyped damage.

[Silverleafeon]

Disintegrate is untyped damage.

Which is why Wizard load the spell for Von 5 end fight.

[Tlorrd]

sounds like a cleric is needed for Resurrection SLA and super-fast/super good heals ...

[Krelar]

sounds like a cleric is needed for Resurrection SLA and super-fast/super good heals ...

Sounds more like you need every toon to carry 100+ resurrection scrolls.

[slarden]

For those that asked.. it looks like 62 Spell Pen is no-fail. Devils and Trolls are at a 63 SR and Trogs are 61 or 62 SR.

No fail necro on the Trogs is ~90; Devils seem to be mid 90s and Trolls are low 100s.

Enchant 73 landed all day long

These #s seem very reasonable to me. I like the lower enchant target - it's the most party-friendly DC casting there is.

[Basura_Grande]

These #s seem very reasonable to me. I like the lower enchant target - it's the most party-friendly DC casting there is.

There is no way in hell those SR numbers are reasonable.

[Dragavon]

My opinion is that is is much better if these legendary raids are too hard on launch than too easy.

Make them so hard that noone can complete, and leave like that for a week or two, then see if people are getting closer to completion, and adjust easier after a month if needed.

[Qezuzu]

Make them so hard that noone can complete

How? Make the one-shots one shottier? Make all DC abilities useless?

If you do that, people will just move to ranged builds. And then we'd need to fill the quests with one-shot archers.

[Rys]

Make the one-shots one shottier?

Good one, good one

[Infiltraitor]

I did some HoX testing this morning.

2300 hp, 200 PRR, 22 dodge, evasion, 25% conceal, 10% incorporeal. No fail Save on all breaths.

Self healing = sacred ground 620 / 3 seconds + renewal 500 / 2 seconds
~ 500 hp per second constantly

Boss damage seemed fine to me.

Not sure if it is bad if I can survive almost forever against 1 raid boss + 3 puppies. I had to shield up and go full tank respec to do it.

On one hand, it is not good that I can survive like that. On the other hand, my stats are slightly above a typical tank.

Any harder and we're talking guaranteed wipes. Any easier and we're going to see guaranteed completions. Tough call where to fine tune this.

[blerkington]

My opinion is that is is much better if these legendary raids are too hard on launch than too easy.

Make them so hard that noone can complete, and leave like that for a week or two, then see if people are getting closer to completion, and adjust easier after a month if needed.

Hi,

I have no problem with raids that are complicated enough that it takes a while for us to figure them out. Like we've had in the past with some of the classic heroic levels raids.

On the other hand, not making a raid completable early on because trash mobs hit for 1500 or more apiece, then adjusting that downwards a fortnight later is a pointless exercise.

One of these is a fun puzzle to engage and challenge the community, the other is a waste of time.

Thanks.

[Holyavatar]

Disintegrate is force damage. MRR does not affect force damage.

No,its untyped damage which scale with force spellpower...

[Thrudh]

Plz do not reduce the damage!

LE Shroud was allready completed without to much of a problem. Was a good group of capable/great players. Was a bit of adjusting to survive, but with CC and some tactics it was no problem.
Part 1-3 were on point. In part 2 we had to kill the mobs twice cause the lion came back to fast. Part 3 had some death due to the walls(fun!) coming fast.
Part 4 was far to easy(1 rounder no death) and
Part 5 could use some adjustments. Maybe have some of the older bosses like Sulomades or Horoth turn up in the trash waves in part 5.

Sure we had a bunch of deaths, but:

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM THE NEWEST RAIDS ON THE HARDEST DIFFICULTY!!!

Dont whine about damage. Deal with it, use tactics or go play Normal....

Please listen to this guy... I'd far rather it was too hard than too easy at launch.

[Thrudh]

if this is true, all the CC, tactics, defenses, twitch, ranged, tanking, group effort, past lives or anything else in the world isn't going to matter if mobs consistently are dealing 2k+ damage.

It must not be true if a group managed to complete it. 2000+ hits from a mob make it pretty hard to solo, but a group can raise the unlucky guys who don't manage to CC the hardest-hitting mobs in time.

[Thrudh]

A question for the people who "easily completed LE Shroud": Did you complete it with the exact builds/gear you had from Live, just leveled to 30 (maybe with a LGS Weapon and/or 1-2 pieces of new gear)? Or did you grab a full set of better gear from The Dojo when you got your experience to go to Level 30? I'm willing to bet that most of you grabbed the new gear. Let me tell you - even with the new gear, LE anything as of Preview 4 is very unforgiving.

Here's what I think is probably reasonable to assume for LE Shroud runs:

• Non-Mythic gear from the new quests (NOT the raids, just the 2 vale quests).
• A Legendary GS weapon with all 3 tier slots filled but without a clicky (or multiple Tier 4 effects if that's WAI).
• 1-2 pieces total of raid gear from among all 3 raids.
• Good builds - melee have 1k hp, 100 PRR, 50 MRR minimum. Ranged/Casters can have slightly less.
• A balanced party: Meaning 1-2 each of Tank, Healer, and DC/CC Caster (in addition to DPS).

Legendary ELITE should require a ton of gear and the best builds.

We're not talking about Legendary normal or hard here.

Remember: One-shotting decently built and/or geared toons is what's called "fake difficulty". Real difficulty is in having priority targets (because they have dangerous abilities, like stat drains, or because they deal high enough damage to endanger your tanks when they're busy tanking other stuff - I prefer the former).

TL;DR: Damage =/= Difficulty. Here's hoping real difficulty gets implemented.

This doesn't make sense at all... A mob that can one-shot you is a priority target... Damage does indeed equal difficulty. If you can't complete because the whole party is dead, then the quest was difficult.

[BigErkyKid]

Asking if we brought in a tank? :S

Currently the defenses a tank can achieve are not much better than say a 15 paladin / 5 ranger. Take for instance Eth's build. It goes up to 200+ PRR and it has a crab ton of HPs (and uber saves, of course). How much more defensive is a dedicated tank?

All this doesn't really matter that much anyway since the mobs hit too hard. The solution to mobs hitting that hard is not CC, it is simply going ranged. Why? Because a mechanic / ranger can get no fail CC, it deals more or less the same amount of damage as a melee and it does not have to deal with the insanity of melee damage in there.

We have said time and again. Multiply x10 the damage is not challenge, it is asking as to use shuriken / mechanic / ranger / pala ranged builds.

Of course forget about playing an assassin or acrobat in that raid. Heck even pure melee rangers are going to have a really tough time in there even if you reduced damage by 50%. This is again pushing towards massive healing / massive HPs / massive PRR builds. Again!

But did you turbine folks NOT test exactly how much damage those mobs are dealing? Do you know without us having to go in there? That far in the update? Where is QA or whatever intern, haven't they stepped in?

You want to give us more challenge, then up magical damage, give their casters debuffs and otto boxes (or even evard's) and sleet storms. Increase the ranged damage that mobs do in general. Have mobs use trips and stuns more often.

Seriously, before you up the damage of ranged toons you MUST revisit completely ranged combat, we know it is simply broken and borderline exploit. The majority of mobs SUCK at dealing ranged damage (that includes bosses) and they cannot even land hits on kiters.

At this point DDO looks like a train out of control. Reign the power creep, reign mob stating. Invest a whole update for that if you must. No quests, no nothing, just laying the foundation for proper growth. That includes a serious plan for itemization that does not rely on making tons of recent items obsolete every 6 months.

You guys are doing very careless work and it very much looks like you do not have it under control in the least.

[BigErkyKid]

It must not be true if a group managed to complete it. 2000+ hits from a mob make it pretty hard to solo, but a group can raise the unlucky guys who don't manage to CC the hardest-hitting mobs in time.

As in every other mob? Please...

Again, this is only pushing people towards exploiting ranged combat.

[Thrudh]

I am fine with making it more difficult. However, I don't believe that one-shoting folks = difficulty. It just means you can't get hit.

Let's add some difficulty; I am even okay if the mobs can one-shot after they get a buff (think Death Knights), as then it is not always on and we can use mitigation tactics. There have been lots of suggestions for upping the difficulty on shroud (giving Harry invulnerability until gnolls are dead, force us to seprate bosses in part 2, etc... ) that have nothing to do with one-shoting toons.

Those suggestions and others would up with difficulty level. Just having mobs do more damage doesn't make things harder.. it just makes it annoying

I love the other suggestions and I'm fully in support of them... I wish people would stop saying "mobs one-shotting doesn't make things harder", because that's false. It does make it more difficult. It may not be the gameplay we want, but stop saying that high-damage mobs don't make things harder.

[Thrudh]

As in every other mob? Please...

Every other mob killed a player? Show me the screenshot where there are 200 mob deaths, and 100 player deaths.

If not, you are exaggerating once again. I really trust very few people to give honest feedback on these boards, and I bet the devs have the same problem.

[BigErkyKid]

I love the other suggestions and I'm fully in support of them... I wish people would stop saying "mobs one-shotting doesn't make things harder", because that's false. It does make it more difficult. It may not be the gameplay we want, but stop saying that high-damage mobs don't make things harder.

Someone throw this man a rope, he is drowning.

It is not harder, it just means we must play differently. If melee is insane damage, we kite. Now what?

"Hard" means as in using your knowledge of the game to its best you have a hard time. It does not mean hard if you purposely choose to play a style that has been rendered gimp.