Handicap system for ELITE mode

[Pehtis]

This constant power creep of dungeons is getting out of hand. This is mostly due to the introduction of gear, skills, tomes etc. for player characters which in combination apparently trivializes even the most potently designed quests. The result is trash continue to scale to ridiculous levels damage whilst being hit point bags and saves to boot. It is a continuous vicious circle that is to the detriment of the game.

The way I see it, Hard Mode should be where trash hit point bloating and saves are at their highest.


Elite mode should be a mirror of Hard Mode. That is trash mobs remain exactly at the same scale. Instead in Elite mode players will be introduced to a handicap system. The handicap system would include a range of things.

Some suggestions (I'm not advocating all of them these are simply examples of what might be done) :
- Guild Buffs - These are immediately dispelled upon entering ELITE.
- Negative levels - Players enter the mode with permanent negative levels (lets say -2 levels). Therefore their hitpoints, spellpoints, saves, skills etc. are all affected. Maybe extend to gear selection too.
- PRR/MRR penalty - perhaps these are reduced (maybe even immediately halved).
- Melee/Range Power - perhaps there is a -10 penalty imposed.
- Character primal statistic reduction - All primary statistic are reduced by 6. Makes you think about any dump stat you may have as well as the expected loss to your skills.
- Spell effects on Players - maybe introduce an adverse spell effect (such as curse, blind, nauseated) on players every 5 minutes. These effects are dispellable with potions/spells and thus more an annoyance.
- Hire limitations - perhaps a level cap on the hire allowed to be summoned. Possibly a ban on some hire types.
- Death limitations - Perhaps place a limit on deaths (say 3 deaths max). You are then considered pema dead for the rest of the quest. Maybe a shrine rest gives back +1 death.


Hopefully you get the idea. I'm sure people have a lot more cooler and better thought out handicap suggestions than the above examples. A handicap system will at least allow the devs to tweak it as they see fit.

[bsquishwizzy]

-Guild Buffs - These are immediately dispelled upon entering ELITE.

Well, with many of the "Legend in their own Mind" types, some of them get dispelled after the first encounter.

[bsquishwizzy]

You want it to be really elite? Nullify deathblock on entry.



Stand back, and watch the hilarity...

[PsychoBlonde]

Instead of nuking the players, it'd be better to simply boost the mobs in a different way. Give them more fort bypass, more PRR bypass, switch them to using 50% spells without saving throws, throw a ton of buffs on them (that can be dispelled). Give them cleave attacks (they can do more damage, but it's distributed), have twice as many champion-type mobs, have the casters drop spell wards, make the rogues drain SP and do stat damage on their attacks. Melee brute mobs should trip and stun more often. Give them increased fortification of their own, etc. (That right there would limit damage, as a lot is based off big, frequent crits--which you won't get unless you have fort bypass.) People are already complaining about eE archers crippling a lot. Good! That's the kind of issue you WANT to have.

I've been saying this for a long time. Bigger wads of hp and damage isn't the way to increase difficulty. Penalizing the players is not a great idea either. Champions were a good idea but it doesn't provide a consistent threat and there's no easy cue to tell what *kind* of champion you're dealing with, so you do with champs what you do with every other type of mob--wade in and hope for the best.

[eris2323]

This constant power creep of dungeons is getting out of hand. This is mostly due to the introduction of gear, skills, tomes etc. for player characters which in combination apparently trivializes even the most potently designed quests. The result is trash continue to scale to ridiculous levels damage whilst being hit point bags and saves to boot. It is a continuous vicious circle that is to the detriment of the game.

The way I see it, Hard Mode should be where trash hit point bloating and saves are at their highest.


Elite mode should be a mirror of Hard Mode. That is trash mobs remain exactly at the same scale. Instead in Elite mode players will be introduced to a handicap system. The handicap system would include a range of things.

Some suggestions (I'm not advocating all of them these are simply examples of what might be done) :
- Guild Buffs - These are immediately dispelled upon entering ELITE.
- Negative levels - Players enter the mode with permanent negative levels (lets say -2 levels). Therefore their hitpoints, spellpoints, saves, skills etc. are all affected. Maybe extend to gear selection too.
- PRR/MRR penalty - perhaps these are reduced (maybe even immediately halved).
- Melee/Range Power - perhaps there is a -10 penalty imposed.
- Character primal statistic reduction - All primary statistic are reduced by 6. Makes you think about any dump stat you may have as well as the expected loss to your skills.
- Spell effects on Players - maybe introduce an adverse spell effect (such as curse, blind, nauseated) on players every 5 minutes. These effects are dispellable with potions/spells and thus more an annoyance.
- Hire limitations - perhaps a level cap on the hire allowed to be summoned. Possibly a ban on some hire types.
- Death limitations - Perhaps place a limit on deaths (say 3 deaths max). You are then considered pema dead for the rest of the quest. Maybe a shrine rest gives back +1 death.


Hopefully you get the idea. I'm sure people have a lot more cooler and better thought out handicap suggestions than the above examples. A handicap system will at least allow the devs to tweak it as they see fit.

Do not like any of these. Why not just make everyone stay at level 1 forever and add challenge that way?

If you need more challenge, apparently, wait for legendary. All of these will penalize new players much more than they affect veterans anyway, and if I build a character to live in EE, I expect to keep my abilities I've worked so hard to attain.

[Qhualor]

You want it to be really elite? Nullify deathblock on entry.



Stand back, and watch the hilarity...

Most times I don't wear deathblock. I actually don't notice a difference in damage. There are certain few places I won't walk into a quest without deathward though like Vol.

[blerkington]

Instead of nuking the players, it'd be better to simply boost the mobs in a different way. Give them more fort bypass, more PRR bypass, switch them to using 50% spells without saving throws, throw a ton of buffs on them (that can be dispelled). Give them cleave attacks (they can do more damage, but it's distributed), have twice as many champion-type mobs, have the casters drop spell wards, make the rogues drain SP and do stat damage on their attacks. Melee brute mobs should trip and stun more often. Give them increased fortification of their own, etc. (That right there would limit damage, as a lot is based off big, frequent crits--which you won't get unless you have fort bypass.) People are already complaining about eE archers crippling a lot. Good! That's the kind of issue you WANT to have.

I've been saying this for a long time. Bigger wads of hp and damage isn't the way to increase difficulty. Penalizing the players is not a great idea either. Champions were a good idea but it doesn't provide a consistent threat and there's no easy cue to tell what *kind* of champion you're dealing with, so you do with champs what you do with every other type of mob--wade in and hope for the best.

Hi,

This is much more sensible.

It often seems like these threads are populated by people looking for ways to have their revenge on a certain type of player (or more accurately, a certain type of forum poster), rather than actually trying to make the game more challenging in a fun and interesting way.

None of the original suggestions in this thread would make the slightest difference to good players with strong characters at higher levels in elite if it was downgraded to be the same as hard plus some random debuffs.

Instead of adding challenge, you would be removing it completely, other than in the very early stages of the game where the non-scaling nature of some effects would be so crippling to some builds it would make elite near impossible.

Thanks.