Randomized Loot

[Kielbasa]

Certain affixes should be named item only. For example last time random loot was buffed "Nightmares" weapons had to be nerfed pretty hard when it was changed from something that was only on two named items to suddenly being on every random loot drop.

Something that needs a random loot drop is rune arms. I don't play artificers but correct me if I am mistaken the only way to get them is from named loot or the turbine store? If that too difficult then they should definately be craftable from scratch when cannith crafting gets a reboot.

With arcane archer now requiring spell power to boost their imbues there needs to be more options to obtain it without a red slot on a weapon especially in epic levels. In heroics you can get away with cannith challenge items for your spell power needs.

Epic random loot needs some good sonic damage options. Pandemonium was nice. Anything to breathe a bit of life back into fatesinger.

[NoWorries]

So, if I'm understanding how this is going to work, the ML of the item will be determined by dungeon level, and the level of the bonus on the item will be scaled to that ML? So instead of:

Current way--If I have a Strength Item with a +6 bonus on it, the ML for that item is 13. If it's Strength +6 of Accuracy +1, the ML becomes 15.

New way I pull a ML 13 Strength of Accuracy item. It grants +6 Strength and +6 Accuracy.

Am I figuring that right? So it'll be a radical change from single-bonus items being the best, because they won't have a much lower ML than an item with 2 bonuses? That's an interesting change right there (and kinda cool, imo, no more crappy +1 this +3 that items that nobody wants). It makes every random drop item at least POTENTIALLY useful. I have a TON of questions tho:

Yes, the bonuses are separate from each other and the minimum level is set by the level of the quest.
Also, there is a chance for a third effect as well.

1. Is the ML for a given bonus level going to be higher? So is +6 going to be (standard, no lucky boosties) like ML 17 on random enchant gear? If it's not, a LOT of heroic level named gear is going to suddenly get an ENORMOUS comparative downgrade because the value of a lot of them is just that they have multiple bonuses without the insane ML inflation the old system put on random gen loot.

As mentioned in another reply +6 to stats I believe starts showing up at level 10 in the updated system.

2. Is there still going to be the enormous ML gap between +6 items (ML 13) and +7 (ML 20)? If this gets changed it's also going to be a big problem for a LOT of named gear. Granted, some of it (like the +8 wheloon heroic items) is basically so easy to acquire that who cares, but something like 95% of pre-MOTU epic loot is going to be so stupidly awful compared to random equivalent level gear it won't even be funny.

the gap is not quite that big, we tried to make smoother scaling curves for the increasing of effects. I'm sure there will be plenty of discussion over these values and adjustments will be made.

3. Is actual named gear going (eventually) get adjusted to follow the new scaling rules? (I'm assuming this new system will make adjustments like this a ton easier than they are currently.)

4. How will the presence of augment slots affect ML? If the loot from chests is a static ML, are augments going to basically "steal" part of the bonus of your generated gear to equal that ML? Are augment slots still gonna appear on random enchant gear at all?

augment slot won't do anything to the ML of the item, there is just a chance to get a slot.

5. What about Masterful/Wondrous Craftsmanship?

Not yet determined.

6. Will loot gems and other loot boosts result in +ML gear in chests? This actually makes them much more worthwhile than they are now because you'll have some clue of what you're actually GETTING.

Loot gems already add to the level of the loot you roll. If you are in a level 12 quest and have +5 boosts, you roll on the level 17 table. That won't change, but the ML will directly change since the ML is now tied to the level of the loot.

7. Will there be insight bonuses available for non-stat stuff, like Insight Armor, Insight Skill, Insight Accuracy, Insight Deadly, Insight Resistance that kind of thing? I hope so, that would be super-cool.

Many things will have Insight boosts yes (and Quality boosts, but Quality is reserved for named items and not random loot).

8. Will it be possible to get Insightful bonuses up to +3 on HEROIC gear? (or half of whatever the max enhancement + is available on sub ML 20 gear) Or are insight bonuses on gear still gonna be epic-only apart from specific named gear?

Currently no restrictions on when they can show up.

9. Are the ML's for basic augments going to get adjusted? Level 28 for +8/+2 is already wildly silly. This will probably make that look completely absurd. At the very least it should be Level 28 for +8/+4 augments. It'd make better sense if level 30 was +11/+5 stat augments and it dropped by 1 for every 3 levels down to +1 at level 1.

No changes are being made to existing augments in this update. That would be a giant task unto itself. That doesn't mean it isn't something we can discuss for the future.

10. If the augments change the ML of the item, is that going to affect the bonuses of the OTHER effects on the item? So, if I slot a level 20 augment into a ML 12 item, everything on that item gets upgraded to level 20 bonus? That . . . might be cool.

+1 Exceptional stat boosts are basically gonna become irrelevant.

No, the augment changing the minimum level will not boost the power of the effects on the item.

[Grailhawk]

I would expect L30 random loot to be more powerful than L25 raid loot (but with less add-on effects). Thus L30 raid loot should be better than L30 random loot.

EE L25 raid loot should be out grown. Not the best in slot at L30.

However, some of the L25 raid loot does need a revamp. Some have yellow slots that should be green, or get a clear slot added for yellow and clear, for example:




Power creep is relative in perspective as well. If you are running L25 EE content on an L30 toon with L30 gear, then you should expect to be OP for the quest level.

However, I don't expect L25 loot to be your best option when you run L30 content and especially Legendary content (starts at L30 on the normal difficulty setting). You will want to be using L30 random loot, named items, and raid gear for that.

No, just no.

L25 Raid loot should be as good or better (because of more effects on it) then L30 random loot.

An L30 toon in an L25 quest should not OP the quest it shouldn't necessarily have a had time in the quest but should not OP it. To put it another way an L30 Toon in an L25 quest should have only about a 5-10% chance to fail, but should not beable to sleep walk its way thorugh the quest. L30 toon in an L20 quest sure, but we need at least a 5 level span before we start getting OP.

[Epitome]

I'm not sure if everyone is aware of the "Class-Based End Rewards option" under settings > gameplay.



In the long ago past if one was multiclass it was beneficial to disable this box to help with getting more "clean" items that have the highest of one type of bonus.

How will this box work now or is there any change to it?

[SableShadow]

Loot gems already add to the level of the loot you roll. If you are in a level 12 quest and have +5 boosts, you roll on the level 17 table. That won't change, but the ML will directly change since the ML is now tied to the level of the loot.

If I'm at the level cap (30), doing a level 31 quest, I will be pulling items that can never be equipped? e.g. the old old BAM bug?
This seems a disincentive to hit the higher tables.

[LightBear]

augment slot won't do anything to the ML of the item, there is just a chance to get a slot.

Well, that's a big change (And may I add for the better). How does that effect existing random loot items?
Wasn't it that it would add up to 4 to the ML depending on the color of the slot and the number of slots?

[NoWorries]

Will this include a retroactive change to any lootgen items the people have stashed away on mules?

Stoner81.

It shouldn't

[Epitome]

If I'm at the level cap (30), doing a level 31 quest, I will be pulling items that can never be equipped? e.g. the old old BAM bug?
This seems a disincentive to hit the higher tables.

As a person who really just stays at cap I'm hoping they are fleshing out 30+ chests random loot. I imagine ML is capped at 30 regardless of what treasure table above you roll on. The question will be how will the automated loot system handle keeping the ML at max 30 but still make it greater than if you were to loot a 30 chest (i.e., random item from a ML 30 chest vs ML 35 chest).

[SableShadow]

The question will be how will the automated loot system handle keeping the ML at max 30 but still make it greater than if you were to loot a 30 chest (i.e., random item from a ML 30 chest vs ML 35 chest).

I think an additional question is "why would I ever want to add +5 levels to an item? or even +1?"; you can't equip it for 5 levels (assuming you're running things at level).

As described, it seems like the real virtue of the system is the reduction and simplification of minimum level vs numbers of effects ... you *don't* want to roll on a higher table, you want to roll on the existing table many many times, and let rng get you something with a prefix, a suffix, a special effect, and a slot.

e.g. +6 stats start showing up at lvl 10; you *don't* want to be rolling on the lvl 11 table, you want to keep hitting lvl 10 items until you get stat + insightful + effect + slot you want. Same same at the next key level break for +7 stats. Or at least that's my take on the matter at present.

[Cordovan]

Just to be clear: This only affects random loot going forward. All loot in your banks or characters will remain unchanged.

[Epitome]

I think an additional question is "why would I ever want to add +5 levels to an item? or even +1?"; you can't equip it for 5 levels (assuming you're running things at level).

As described, it seems like the real virtue of the system is the reduction and simplification of minimum level vs numbers of effects ... you *don't* want to roll on a higher table, you want to roll on the existing table many many times, and let rng get you something with a prefix, a suffix, a special effect, and a slot.

e.g. +6 stats start showing up at lvl 10; you *don't* want to be rolling on the lvl 11 table, you want to keep hitting lvl 10 items until you get stat + insightful + effect + slot you want. Same same at the next key level break for +7 stats. Or at least that's my take on the matter at present.

Right, so I assume if you were in say level 31 legendary quest with +2 gem and +1 guild loot bonus you would roll on a chest of 34, but you are still only getting a max ML item of 30. I just hope it "separates the wheat from the chaff" on such high level chests and starts to maximize out the potential random bonuses (stat + insightful + effect + slot).

[Coyopa]

Are we going to have to read detailed descriptions to know what an item does? How is an item going to scale up? If I find something in a level 3 dungeon and put it on the AH, will it be more powerful in the hands of a level 28 character?

I have detailed descriptions turned off and don't particularly like turning them on to look for stuff on the AH. If things don't scale by the level of the character using it, then seeing a bunch of "dazing" stuff in the AH is going to be pure noise. I will NEVER be able to figure out which one I actually want without reading EVERY. SINGLE. ITEM'S. DESCRIPTION.

[Coyopa]

Loot gems already add to the level of the loot you roll. If you are in a level 12 quest and have +5 boosts, you roll on the level 17 table. That won't change, but the ML will directly change since the ML is now tied to the level of the loot.

This makes loot boosts just about completely pointless.

[PpalP]

Are we going to have to read detailed descriptions to know what an item does? How is an item going to scale up? If I find something in a level 3 dungeon and put it on the AH, will it be more powerful in the hands of a level 28 character?

I have detailed descriptions turned off and don't particularly like turning them on to look for stuff on the AH. If things don't scale by the level of the character using it, then seeing a bunch of "dazing" stuff in the AH is going to be pure noise. I will NEVER be able to figure out which one I actually want without reading EVERY. SINGLE. ITEM'S. DESCRIPTION.

I think the power of the weapon comes from the ML of the weapon, not from character using it; so if you get a Dazing club on a level 6 quest, the ML of the club, and his power, will be as an ML6 weapon, even if a lv20 charcater uses it.

Regarding the AH/AS question the answer is easy, if you look for a specific effect, put the level range also to ease the work, that helps a lot : )

[Epitome]

Is the loot update addressing or incorporating Rare Random Drops.

Items include but are not limited to:

Tomes
Lesser Hearts of Wood
Keys of Destiny
XP Potions
Reincarnation Timer Reset Potions
...many others

I know this cuts into Turbines DDO Store sales but it was always my understanding that some of these have potential to drop. I do a massive about of endgame random chest pools at the highest potential (with level 28 character) and only sometimes see +5 Tomes, +4 or +5 Upgrade Skill tomes but never anything else.

Can we hope to have some of these rarer items actually added to the treasure tables or will this hurt the Store too much?

[patang01]

Certainly open to the option. List as many as you can think of and we can look into it.

How about augmentation slots?

[SableShadow]

Right, so I assume if you were in say level 31 legendary quest with +2 gem and +1 guild loot bonus you would roll on a chest of 34, but you are still only getting a max ML item of 30. I just hope it "separates the wheat from the chaff" on such high level chests and starts to maximize out the potential random bonuses (stat + insightful + effect + slot).

That's actually how I'd prefer to see l00t bonuses working at all levels, rather than simply increasing the table and associated ml.

Is the loot update addressing or incorporating Rare Random Drops.

Items include but are not limited to:

Tomes
Lesser Hearts of Wood
Keys of Destiny
XP Potions
Reincarnation Timer Reset Potions
...many others

I know this cuts into Turbines DDO Store sales but it was always my understanding that some of these have potential to drop. I do a massive about of endgame random chest pools at the highest potential (with level 28 character) and only sometimes see +5 Tomes, +4 or +5 Upgrade Skill tomes but never anything else.

Can we hope to have some of these rarer items actually added to the treasure tables or will this hurt the Store too much?

If l00t boosts had no impact on item table (and associated ml) but gave a bonus (even a small one) to getting these kinds of specials, that would make l00t boosts work for me in the new system.

[Mryal]

Loot gems already add to the level of the loot you roll. If you are in a level 12 quest and have +5 boosts, you roll on the level 17 table. That won't change, but the ML will directly change since the ML is now tied to the level of the loot.

What exactly does this mean? Does it mean that if i run a lv 10 quest on elite i will get lv 12 loot gen regardless if using boosts or not, OR
Does it mean if im on the same said quest with a +2 loot boost gem i will get lv 14 loot gen with ML 12?

[Epitome]

This makes loot boosts just about completely pointless.

I've always thought it would be great if the loot bonuses increased you chances to roll into rarer treasure tables at level. I.e., you have increased potential to see Tomes, max stat, xp pots, mana pots, etc. all at level so that way loot gems and such have usefulness at all levels instead of dropping an ML 17 weapon while you are in a level 12 quest with a level 12 character.

[Saekee]

No, just no.

L25 Raid loot should be as good or better (because of more effects on it) then L30 random loot.

An L30 toon in an L25 quest should not OP the quest it shouldn't necessarily have a had time in the quest but should not OP it. To put it another way an L30 Toon in an L25 quest should have only about a 5-10% chance to fail, but should not beable to sleep walk its way thorugh the quest. L30 toon in an L20 quest sure, but we need at least a 5 level span before we start getting OP.

NoWorries you are not in the Dev Tracker, it seems
edit: ok, in Lam one, thx forumites



i agree with Grailhawk on this but it seems like there is a lot of named, rare, raid items and quest items that are already worse than lootgen. Maybe when all is said and done, there will be some future update which goes through all the old named stuff and buffs them properly