ED needs rework

[AzureDragonas]

Just wanted to share some thoughts after trying all destinies in different life and having some thoughts about each.

So gonna talk about speheres, and some tweaking nerfing/improving where i think should be needed

Divine Spehere

Cores different and dont dublicate so its k i guess.

Divine Crusader
As caster-fighter type ed it's good but there are something hidden what is broken in entire tree
Castigation: Your Aura of Purification also harms nearby enemies, dealing Bane damage every 3 seconds. Non-bosses take damage equal to 1% of their current health for each stack of Purification they have. Bosses instead take 1d6 Bane damage per stack of Purification.

it can cap to 25% of bane damage equal to current HP, this effect can allow you kill monsters by doing minimal damage or aoe damage to give dozen stacks quikly, in any sense damage which says i remove % of hp should not exist (Learn lessons from MF)

Exalted Angel
1.st It's a fine ed for light based casters but there are couple issues. I don't mind that anyone can access ed it's maybe fair, but i do mind some effects like
Leap of Faith: Active Ability: (Cooldown 3 seconds, 10 sp) Leap through air (like leap of faith). Costs 10 sp, recharges at a rate of 15 seconds in private areas and 3 seconds in public areas. If you already possess this ability, it now recharges at a rate of 1 every 12 seconds in private areas.

It should be unique effect which is accessed by couple classes by either investent in class (fvs/monk) or by investment in ap (sorc-air). To let anyone who uses this ed get leap for 2 AP it's not fair.

2.nd There is issue with cores, getting sla of cure moderate wounds mass maybe fair for ed, but getting at same time another for
Transcendental Magic: Passive Bonus:+3 to the DC of all your spells. It's hard to find reasoning why non aarchmage ed gets for free +3 to all dc schools while caster spec on dc ed gives some sp, caster level same as draconic and capstone of.
Arcane Spellsurge: Active Ability: (Cooldown 4 mins) +5 to all spell DCs for 20 seconds. - it's hard to use dc burst effect which lasts 20 seconds and have cooldown like this, while exalted angel gets so much dc all time+leap+usefull sla+good efects and heals for group

Sentinental - Is good tanking ed with some healing splash i really like it, but i find not fair of how "epic moment" works. I understand that getting 10k hp for 20 seconds is like OMG but, why it's once per rest, why it have no cd and not reusable, why in some raids where there are no shrines it's single clickie boost for 20 seconds.

Arcane Sphere
Each ed should lead to different path, 2 spheres are technicly identical, while draconic should focus on caster level for damage with caster level cap increase too without sp bonus (sorc etc have enough sp already no reason to give them even more to use ruin more offen)
archamge on dc lets say +1 dc at least per core with spell penetration and sp for cc spells - make us choose it for those who wanna get highest dc on spells

Draconic incarnation -
1.st ED is nice for damage casters, energy burst OP, etc but it's kinda sad effects like Dragon breath have 5 uses only would love to see more clickies of it, 5 are not enough, if you wanna benefit from it you ust zerg to gather enough oppoennts to make it worth to use, turning down damage and letting use without 5 uses restriction would alow casters to zerg less on "gathering" bunch of mobs for burst.
2.nd Energy burst is too strong to be twistable, something that can go and do so much aoe damage if used wisely is bad option to give, anything that gives too much benefit compared to other choices leads to a point when ed itself is less atractive while you get best things in twists. It should be at least T5 as leap and other similiar effects, shooting 5-15k fire blasts on my warchanter who uses cha scrore on frozen mobs leads to inbalance.
3.rd it's kinda hard to benefit on epic moment which says gather as much as possible monsters to benefit (also charge getting is kinda broken and takes too long)

FateSinger
Ed is terrible even for bards who should main it, no other build would even use it while other ed a way better
1.st - For caster bards who lacks aoe damage you give song which have no scaling and worth to use maybe in heroics as ED effect. 100-200 sonic negative in total damage even if its aoe it's a joke
Dirge: (Song, AoE effect, Cooldown: 6 seconds) Expend a song to produce a haunting funeral march. You deal 10d[4/6/8] Negative damage and 10d[8/10/12] Sonic damage every 3 seconds for 18 seconds (fort save for half). In addition, enemies may be slowed by 5% if they fail their fort save. Duration 18 seconds (modified by enhancements that increase song duration).
Specialy when most monsters either immune to negative or gets healed by it.
2.nd gives almost no benefit on dps bards, even epic moment:
Turn of the Tide: (Active Cooldown: 6 mins) Spontaneous Song (expend a song to activate). Turn of the Tide grants a full BAB, +3 to hit, +40% damage, DR 15/-, a +4 Charisma, and deals +5d10 +75 Sonic damage and +5d10 +75 Light damage per hit. (This magical damage does not affect Bosses.) While under the effects of Turn of the Tide, rolling a 1 on a Will save is not an automatic failure. Duration: 20 seconds (affected by lingering song and similar effects). Is too short and have close to no effect on bosses. Compare this epic moment for let's say blitz, which gives 70% damage +50dodge / 30 prr can be kept for long time as long as you attack and even reused in shorter times.

Magister
same boat as FateSinger 1 of worst ED in game with close to no use, with small buffs, little damage, almost non existing dc bonus.
1.st Magister ed should give feeling of dc increase if you waste 12 ap to get +6 score - (1/2 ap of total) to get +3 dc while exalted angel gets +3 pernament dc in core for free i call it bad design.
2.nd most of what this ed gives it's add penalty on failed spell casting to make other spells to land easier. Wait what is better? to get +3 DC to make 15% spell more effective on landing lets say or to make 25% better chance after failed cc spell which have it's cooldown and cost sp. You giving obvious choices and while raising dc and debuffing eats most ap in end you are worse in all aspects than exalted angel twisted dc caster who can twist as lvl 2 slot +3 single school dc bonus making +6 to certain schrool and adding +3 to remaining or even if hes cha based getting +6 to all and +9 to certain school

Primal

Primal avatar
is broken not usable ed with many drawbacks on use while druids can use draconic and get way better benefits than little frogs or small bonuses, and is usable only by exploits as 1 of biggest exploited builds in history which is still not fixed.
1.st give more choices to pick ir for caster, that even sorc would have choice between using it or draconic, ed must be challanging othervise everyone use same ed all the time.
2.nd If it has design for DPS make it again worth to take by giving better stuff than +5% damage on duals on T4 while LD provides 70% damage. +5% damage is joke at T4 while you give at T3 ability to knockdown with no saves - which is most offen twisted
3.rd cocon is broken BEYOND. There are in ed only 4 like this to heal up:
1) Lay on Hands limited uses Limited Power
2) Core sla on Exalted angel which force you play Ed
3) renew as T3 which heals less and targets only ally, not you unless you use Ed
4) this heals most of all, targets anyone, even gives shield, and is T1
You technicly say all zergers pick sense weakness/draconic burst as much damage as you can and leave last slot for 1 of best heals in game. This effect is way better than renewal which for some reason is T3, effect like this is as minimum T4 - AS MINIMUM, there should be reasoning to choose between damage and sustain now you give best ed damage effects to twists with on top of that free heal for anyone


Fury
Issues with spike damage, spikes to an orbit while most of times doing same as fatesinger ed user
1st Gives so much single button push damage making those 10w or slay arrows broken while also making simple attacks (better poke). Would be more wisely tune down damage by half and letting it use more offen than most of times waiting your next slay arrow or special attack which scales it to an orbit
2nd make it more rewarding on con str, rage duration or on survivability more, so it would be proper choice for melee
3rd same as energy burst is way too strong T5 barbarian gives 15% T4 on ninja while spending 26 ap gives less than 4th level slot twist. It as powerfull as leap, draconic burst whihc is twisted so offen becouse it's OP it's at least T5 level ability
Sense Weakness: Passive Bonus: You deal [10/20/30]% extra damage to helpless targets. Your melee attacks deal [1d8/1d8/1d8] extra untyped damage to enemies below 75% HP, [0/1d12/1d12] extra damage to enemies below 50% HP, and [0/0/1d20] extra damage to enemies below 25% HP. These are cumulative.

Shiradi
Ed which suits casters more than archers, Archers gets clsoe to non benefit from it.
1.st why throwable weapons only benefit from it? add missle speed at T5 making bow crossbow users to even consider it as choice
2.nd add ranged damage most of stuff it buffs is hit bonus and not damage why get another +10 hit bonus for archer while same ED gives 70% total damage boost
3.rd casters have 4-6 ED choices already i don't see reason why it should give bonuses to casters also while archers don't have any unique ed for them.

Martial
Shadowdancer - 1 of most useless ed, which buffs assasins a bit which is at best only twistable for assasins. ED gives close to non options how to assisinate by adding little dc little skill bonus and some sneak, while giving evasion which isn't even needed for assasins couse htye have by this time imporved evasion
1.st Executioner's Strike/Shot: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 30 seconds) Melee or ranged attack. Perform an attack with +[1/2/3][W] damage, +1 critical threat range and +1 critical damage multiplier. On hit: You have a 35% chance to kill a living target instantly if the target fails a Fortitude save (DC 7 + Character level + DEX modifier + Number of Shadow Charges). Even on successful save target takes an additional [50/75/100] damage from this attack. Wait how it happend that assasins favorite ed give unique assisination which have 35% to even work out and there is on top of that save? If assisination worked like that no one ever would play it. If you already made OP ed like giving leap, 400% damage hits etc why assisination in ed is so terrible at T5???
2.nd getting charges is hard takes skill to learn how to gather them properly and manage time before mark dissapears, most of time if u try lasthit in group you will fail if somone hits monster first
3.rd Epic moment is loughable even fatesingers Epic moment is better and we already talked how bad it is.
4.th shadow form is weak, lvl 6 monk technicly gets same from ninja as ed T6 it could be better.

Legendary dreadnought - is solo top king of all dps ED, it gives HP, dc, all missing action boosts, even more Damage, Harper ping effect, damage reduction boost, Blitz - most broken effect which is if considered Epic moment have no other even close to its power (70% damage prr etc which have low CD, can be kept during all quest and on top of that dont require anything to be activated just to attack after activation)
not to mention Action Boosts gives 50% more damage on helpless. There is no other ed which favors DPS this much, other ed beats this only if user have no damage to begin with like tanks or swasbuclers dps. Even rogs with crossbows uses it to reach insane Ranged power and solo quests like FoT
1.st As tiwstable ed it gives close to no benefit comapred to other mmaybe DC and action boosts which leads to a point either dont use it at all other gives way more benefits or use it and be strongest of them all
2.nd It should focus more on weapon themselves not favor certain weapons like axes gets multiplayers and bludgeoning gets treat range. It should effect in some way piering slashing etc too.
3.rd Giving so much damage and resistance makes DPS OP in many cases specialy with fully stacked Blitz it should be something as Fury ED by constantly attacking getting charges etc, it's already have unlimited duration as long as you attack like no other does

Grandmaster of flowers - It's maybe fun on monks, but not fair that while there are 18 playable classes technicly entire ED focuses on that, while when there are artificers/rangers/mechanics/throwers have no real Ranged fight spec ed so i find it's unfair, but on top of that, this ed is not worth to be picked right now, at best twisted with maybe to use epic moment for fun. LD favors monks again way better by giving dozen of damage prr etc what this ed sadly don't do
1.st make it more based on multiple classes its favors only class in game and yet its worse than LD ed
2.nd Give some reasons why it should be picked as a martail ED choice what would be worth and unique compared to others

Conclusion would be Right now there are no Balance in ED
Magister < Exalted angel for dc
Any martial sphere even close to power of LD
There is no real unique ed for archers while there are more archers builds than monks ever was
Some ED are so bad they are not even considered playable, unless you troll or don't know much about ed
some twists are overpowered while others in same tear not even usable if you use that ED.
some twists are so weak they are not considered to pickable
some effects should be removed entirely or added to T6 as hard choice like leap of faith.
so effects should be moved up while being stronger than even higher tier effects in other trees while some should be turned down as being too weak even compared to lowest tear twists

To make any kind of balance with ED each time somone picks effect it should be reasoning better than "there is nothing better to be even pickable", There should be advantages and disatvatages like going more tanky resuts in less damage, while going damage results in harder time to survive, Except sentinental no other ed challanges LD so much on survivability, while LD already being best and only DPS option.
Draconic burst is way stronger have 2x less cooldown even unlimited use just by pool and twistable, compare that to breath
cocon being better effect than most T4 twists are and still being at T1 all this time
T1 abilities what gives same bonuses as Epic Feats are worst choices than other effects
Archamge T2 twist gives same DC as 3 feats combined
etc etc... all these are results of bad design
Even Capstones of cores and "epic moments" are so failed it's not funny when some epic moments are being so useless hardly anyone pick or use them while some capstones being so strong and are getted for free. (like compare shadowdancer epic moment to crusader capstone) 1 requires tons of investment and gives nothing just poke damage and another beats Blitz effect in short term. Some Ed misses epic moments some have too strong, some capstones are so weak no one even bother to use and others are too strong.
Epic moment on each ED should be signature of that ED itself being reason why to even use ED.

Give some thouhts on what you agree, disagree, and add more what i didn't mentioned

[IronClan]

I find most of your suggestions to be disruptive, game killing and otherwise really unwanted, especially where they involve removing things like Leap of Faith, changing the twist-ability of things and otherwise making wholesale changes that would disrupt builds and cause people to rabble rabble for LR20's. Your appraisal of many things is grossly exaggerated, simply wrong or completely Forum DDO "read it on wiki so I have no idea that it's actually pretty good if I had used it" type stuff. The thing is there's just too much wrong to even go point for point and be more specific...

[Grailhawk]

This is what I personally think should be done to the weaker ED's:

Shadow Dancer

• Shadow Training I: Passive Bonus: You gain +1 Sneak Attack die, +4 Melee and Ranged Power, +10% Sneak Attack scaling with Melee/Ranged power for each level of Shadowdancer.
• New Enhancment: (Tier 4) Passive Bonus: +[4/8/12] to dodge cap. (EDP: 1 Ranks:3)
• New Enhancment: (Tier 4) Passive Bonus: +[4/8/12] to dodge. (EDP: 1 Ranks:3)
• Dark Imbuement: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 45 Seconds) Remove:Each time an enemy affected by your Dark Shrouding mark dies, you additionally gain 1 Dark Imbuement charge. When you have accumulated 20 of these charges, you can expend them to enchant your melee and ranged attacks with shadowy energy. For 30 seconds, you deal an extra 2d6 unholy damage with every strike, the effective range of your melee attacks increases dramatically striking 4 targets per swing instead of one, and your ranged attacks have a 30% chance to explode, dealing 10d6 unholy damage to all enemies in a large radius around your target.

Grandmaster of Flowers

• Running with Wind: Passive Bonus: Electricity resistance [4/8/12], +[10/20/30]% enhancement bonus to movement speed. If you have Monk levels and are in Wind stance, +[5/10/15]% chance to doublestrike, +[3/6/10]% chance to make offhand attacks, and +[0/2/5] Melee Alacrity.
• Walking with Waves: Passive Bonus: Gain cold resistance [4/8/12] and +[2/4/6] to AC. If you have Monk levels and are in Ocean stance, +[3/6/10]% Dodge, Dodge Cap, and Incoprial.
• Standing with Stone: Passive Bonus: Acid resistance [4/8/12], +[5/10/15] max HP. If you have Monk levels and are in Earth stance, +[5/10/15] PRR and MRR, [15/20/25]% Fortification. Rank 3 Immunity to Knockdown.
• Dancing with Flames: Passive Bonus: Gain fire resistance [4/8/12]. Gain +[1/2/3] to attack and damage rolls. If you have Monk levels and are in Fire stance, add [0.50/1.00/1.5][W] to your weapons and [10/15/20] Melee power.
• New Enhancement: (Tier 5) Passsive Bonus: +[10/20/30] Melee Power. (EDP: 1 Ranks:3)

Fury of the Wild

• - New Enhancement: (Tier 5) Passive Bonus: Increases the critical multiplier of weapons you equip by 1. Heavy Picks, Battleaxe, Dwarven Axe, Greateaxe, Longbow, Shortbow, Warhammer, Maul, Morningstar, Heavy Mace, Greatclub, and Club gain increase the critical multiplier by an aditional +1 (total +2).

Primal Avatar

• Symetric Strikes: Passive Bonus: +10 Primal bonus to melee power, while in animal form, unarmed, or two-weapon fighting.
• Nature's Fury: Passive Bonus: Gain +1 critical damage multiplier on a roll of 19-20, +10% doublestrike, +1 Bonus to Critical Threat Range, and your attacks now bypass 10% fortification.

Shiradi Champion

• Fey Favor: Passive Bonus: You gain 100 SP and proficiency with longbows and shortbows and +1 ranged damage. You gain Druid and Ranger caster levels equal to your Shiradi Champion level if you have any levels in those classes.Each time you Vorpal with ranged and thrown attacks you gain Favor of the Fey. You gain Favor of the Fey 7% of the time you cast offensive spells. You gain +5% doubleshot for each levels of Shiradi Champion.
• NOTE: All shiradi champion proc effects now scale with the appropriate spell power when applied by a bow not just a spell cast.

Fatesinger

• Turn of the Tide: (Active Cooldown: 6 mins) Spontaneous Song (expend a song to activate). Turn of the Tide grants a full BAB, +3 to hit, +40 Melee Power, DR 15/-, a +4 Charisma, and deals +5d10 +75 Sonic damage and +5d10 +75 Light damage per hit. Remove:(This magical damage does not affect Bosses.) While under the effects of Turn of the Tide, rolling a 1 on a Will save is not an automatic failure. Duration: 60 seconds (affected by lingering song and similar effects).
• Fragment of the Song: Valor: (Passive) Your Inspire Courage grants you and your party an additional [+1/+2] to damage. In addition, you gain the following personal bonuses: +[3/5]% melee attack speed, +[10/20] temporary HP, +[5/10] Intimidate, +[5/10] to hit, and +[5/10] Melee Power. Rank 1: Removes combat penalties for moving. Rank 2: Gives you a 2% chance to cause 5% electric/light/sonic vulnerability (stacks 3 times).
• Fragment of the Song: Clarity: (Passive) All of your Songs gain [10/20]% their duration. Additionally, your Inspire Courage grants additional effects only for you: Your spells cost [5/10]% less to cast, +[5/10] Concentration, +[20/40] temporary Spell Points, +[10/20] Universal Spell Power and +[3/5]% spell critcal chance.

[Discpsycho]

In reverse order...

Grailhawk, I was surprised by how much I liked your ED fixes. Well done. I think Nature's Fury (Primal Avatar) would overpower tree builds a bit. Maybe change that to a Holy Sword equivalent (+1 Crit Range, +1 Crit multiplier), as there's already a lot of fort bypass in other trees.


Which brings me to AzureDragonas's laundry list. Before I start talking about stuff individually, I think it's worth pointing out that I think LD is currently too strong and that we shouldn't necessarily try to balance the non-caster EDs by bringing them up to its level.


Divine Sphere

Unyielding Sentinel: Used by tanks, anyone who needs better HP and is willing to sacrifice damage to get it
- Generally, the epic moment seems fine, maybe double the temp HP duration so you can use up a little more of it before the timer runs out. Some classes and EDs already have "In Case of Emergency" abilities that drop hate, trigger invisibility, or something similar. These wouldn't work for a tank, so I see the current epic moment as a reasonable ICE ability given the necessity for maintaining aggro and staying in the fray. There are some situations a heal and HP store won't help, but the design seems solid otherwise.

Exalted Angel: Used by light/alignment/heal casters
- This ED is used primarily by ES warlocks, clerics and FvS. Pure FvS get Leap of Faith at 17 and Fey Warlocks get Misty Escape, which are functionally similar and therefore it's totally reasonable to include LoF in EA for them. Clerics are otherwise lacking in mobility and deserve it, especially considering Monks and Sorcerers also have access to it. You're correct that they only have to spend 2 AP to get it, but given the other T5 ability is a one-minute daze and that the T6 abilities are stellar, it's a pretty fair trade.
- The +3 DC is a lot, but the classes that use this tree aren't getting it from many other places. Angel of Vengeance doesn't get any DC boosts from the enhancement line, and Warlock gets +1/+2 to Necro/Enchant/Conjuration from one of its trees (one each in T4/T5). Divine Disciple clerics choose between +1 Evo and +1 Necro. There's also the issue of the types of spells being cast - alignment casters need at least two of Evo, Necro and Conjuration to compete with arcanes, which can get by with either Evo or Necro.

Divine Crusader: Used by physical damage dealers that have a decent mana pool (Paladin, Rangers, Melee Druids, Bards, Warpriests, melee Warlocks, and various multiclassed folks). I'm sure Divine Crusader casters are out there, and the tree seems like it could work for them, but I've never seen any before
- Purification applies to nearby enemies and/or enemies recently hit by your attacks/spells. Castigation requires Aura of Purification, so it's not particularly useful for ranged attackers. Stacks of Purification are added every 3 seconds, on every crit (max of every 2 seconds per target), and on every spell hit (including Consecration). Assuming Consecration is down and you're critting the target every two seconds, it'll still be about 21 seconds before an enemy gets full stacks. Bosses will then take ~7d6 damage per second, which is pretty insignificant. The percent current health on non-bosses is absurd assuming they have full stacks. I'm not a top-tier player, but most of my AOE trash fights take less than 30 seconds. Compared to a fully-stacked Blitz, you might actually be losing damage using DC.


Arcane Sphere

Draconic Incarnation: Used by elemental evocation casters (primarily Sorcerers)
- I think you're correct about Energy Burst being overpowered as a twistable ability, especially compared to Dragon Breath. A quick-and-easy fix would be to swap the two - make EB T5 and DB T4. This makes the T5 ability have a shorter cooldown, no charge limit and a better area of effect than a T4 of identical power.

Magister: Used by wizards (anyone else?)
- This one seems pretty solid to me. It's got a ton of really useful low-tier abilities (DC increases, sigils for buffing yourself AND allies, cooldown reduction), a solid level 5 core, further DC increases at T5, sp reduction and a stellar team-oriented Epic Moment. I'm honestly kind of surprised more people don't use this ED. A lot of casters end up twisting several of the T1-T4 abilities, but why not get them all and get other twists for further versatility? A total of +6 to a specific DC, with a cooldown for another universal +5, doesn't seem underpowered to me. EA with some Magister twists might be better certain types of casters, but that doesn't make Magister useless for the other types.

Fatesinger: Used by Spellsingers (anyone else?)
- I'll agree that the songs need to scale with spellpower. The epic moment, on the other hand, seems to fit pretty well given the rest of this tree. This ED was designed for bards, but doesn't really compare to LD or DC for melee builds. The only folks using this are Spellsingers, who get a lot of bonuses to song duration (+80% from Spellsinger, +50% from Fatesinger), bringing the Epic Moment duration up to 46 seconds. If a Spellsinger is low on mana or songs and needs to do physical damage, this ability seems like a good equalizer. It isn't as good as Master's Blitz, but it does allow a caster in a caster ED to do melee (or ranged) damage on par with the melees in its party. If you're unsatisfied with it, roll up a Spellsinger/Swashbuckler, give it a go, and then we'll talk. Because that's who it's intended for. It's not like Spellsingers have another ED that would work for them particularly well.


Primal

Shiradi: Used by EB warlocks, archers, throwers, ray-based casters (and repeater builds?)
- AFAIK, ranged DON'T tend to use this tree a whole lot even though it's built for them. The current fad for throwers seems to be twisting Whirling Wrists and running LD. I doubt crossbow users of any sort would consider this tree unless Master's Blitz gets nerfed or the alacrity is similarly unbalanced. The recent changes to AA have buffed archers in this ED, which is the sustained bow damage to FotW's burst.
- EB warlocks and spell-spammer casters don't get a lot of benefit from other trees. Neither use DCs much, so Magister is underwhelming. Draconic helps the latter but not the former. EA helps the former but not the latter. Essentially, this gives these two builds a second ED choice, rather than locking them into just one.
- The to-hit makes it so archers don't have to max both Str and Dex (and Wis, if you're AA), though this is a holdover from before DWS changes to improved weapon finesse. Given most other physical damage dealers get to pick one damage stat, why shouldn't archers get this option?

Fury of the Wild: Used by Barbarians, Furyshotters (anyone else?)
- In general, this tree is built more for burst damage than sustained damage, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Melees already have LD and DC for sustained damage, and full-time archers have Shiradi and LD (though AA folks are probably using the former). Furyshot archers are less popular now because of the removal of Manyshot's doubleshot penalty, but they were always sort of a one-trick pony. They can do 150k damage in one shot, but that's only every 5 minutes. The rest of the time their damage is worse than it would be in LD, DC or Shiradi.
- Sense Weakness is powerful, there's no denying that. But it costs a lot of Fate Points to twist and it only begins to shore up the lack of sustained damage that the tree otherwise suffers from.
- You mention a need for more Con, Str and rage duration (or general survivability), but I don't really see a need for any of these things. Con and Str would help the Furyshot builds you were complaining about, and Barbarians don't particularly need more survivability. Barbarians don't really run out of rages unless they spam Visage of Terror. IMO, it's nice that the tree grants some alternative benefits (+1dWhatever damage on hit, Wis/saves while raged) because they make an already-binary ED less binary and min-max-y.

Primal Avatar: Used by Tree builds, some Rangers, Druids
- First off, PA has a bunch of group bonuses like Summer Smoke, Autumn Harvest, and the practically worthless companion summon. In a large group, SS is gonna contribute a lot more than any ED ability that increases just your damage.
- I'm not sure which exploit build you're talking about (TWF/SWF druid? They use LD), but a tree build is usable by a lot of class splits.
- It's not really a "caster tree" so much as a hybrid tree, granting bonuses to both melee and spell casting without stellar bonuses to either. Given its associated class is druid, that seems logically consistent. I personally don't see many caster druids these days, but those I do are Helios builds or cold casters - specialized builds, rather than generalists, which are going to cherry-pick the ED that grants slightly higher damage in exchange for versatility.
- Rejuv Cocoon only heals while the shield is active, making it pointless in melee. If you have a second to step out of combat and heal yourself up, you may as well just use Heal scrolls and save yourself the spell points. Rejuv only heals one target, unlike Consecration, which heals ~10 per 3s vs. Rejuv's 5d6 (~18) per 2s (and has a bevy of other benefits)


Martial

Grandmaster of Flowers: Used by melee monks (few and far-between)
- Monks aren't balanced right now and are due for an update (which is supposedly happening around U31?)
- I could see some Clonk or Drunker builds using this to great effect. It might not be quite as powerful as another ED, but it would have some good flavor

Shadowdancer: Used by assassins, artificer repeater builds (for survivability)
- Assassinate DC: I have no problem with granting further bonuses to a hard-to-use, underpowered spec
- Evasion gives some incentive for non-assassins, like artificers. With IPS, I can see the epic moment being fantastic for these folks as well
- Shadow Form: Just because another class gets a similar ability with a shorter duration as a core doesn't make this one worthless. Since Shadowdancer users probably won't get a huge benefit from both Consume and Dark Imbuement, this seems like a great T6.
- Executioner's Strike is a secondary Assassinate, which comes in real handy given that tree is built around one attack with a 12s cooldown. The ranged version isn't redundant like the melee version is, making it even more valuable. With the kind of Dex scores a Shadowdancer is going to have, the 35% is low but not absurdly so.

Legendary Dreadnought: Used by pretty much every physical damage build
- 50 HP is a drop in the bucket for most characters. Arguably, it's not even worth the risk of being in melee.
- Lay Waste and Momentum Swing are used by THF builds and don't hold up quite as well for TWF. That being said, these are FANTASTIC twists for THF builds in other EDs. I ran my admittedly-subpar FvS past life (THF Warpriest 17 FvS, 3 Paladin) in DC with these twisted and have no regrets.
- Fully stacked Blitz is absolutely OP compared to other ED epic moments, but is often given more credit than it deserves. 30 PRR is great for squishy characters (Monks and Rangers top out at about 120 PRR, AFAIK) but is not a huge % damage reduction for heavily armored builds (200? 250?). More importantly, 70 MP/RP =/= 70% damage. Instead, it means 70% increased BASE damage. As of a couple patches ago, endgame barbarians topped out at about 290 MP including Blitz - the extra 70 from Master's Blitz increased their weapon damage by 22% (3.9/3.2). This is an extreme example, as most other builds cap out around 200 MP, but MP also doesn't affect most types of damage. On-hit effects, most activated abilities, and spellcasts on hybrids don't benefit from this extra damage.


I'm tempted to add my two cents on underpowered EDs / EMs, but by now you're probably sick of hearing my side of things.

[AzureDragonas]

In reverse order...

Grailhawk, I was surprised by how much I liked your ED fixes. Well done. I think Nature's Fury (Primal Avatar) would overpower tree builds a bit. Maybe change that to a Holy Sword equivalent (+1 Crit Range, +1 Crit multiplier), as there's already a lot of fort bypass in other trees.


Which brings me to AzureDragonas's laundry list. Before I start talking about stuff individually, I think it's worth pointing out that I think LD is currently too strong and that we shouldn't necessarily try to balance the non-caster EDs by bringing them up to its level.

I am happy to hear your feedback on this and sorry for my laundry text, had so much to say and at same time restrain from hysteric lough some stuff in ed forces me to do, you made so good points but in general most of stuff you told is from theory perspective nit practical, what you told would be more similiar to devs thinking so i write below on each what more precisely i mean in practical side how not flavor guys but those who see difference in ed thinks more.

Divine Sphere

Unyielding Sentinel: Used by tanks, anyone who needs better HP and is willing to sacrifice damage to get it
- Generally, the epic moment seems fine, maybe double the temp HP duration so you can use up a little more of it before the timer runs out. Some classes and EDs already have "In Case of Emergency" abilities that drop hate, trigger invisibility, or something similar. These wouldn't work for a tank, so I see the current epic moment as a reasonable ICE ability given the necessity for maintaining aggro and staying in the fray. There are some situations a heal and HP store won't help, but the design seems solid otherwise.

I don't see situation when i play tank with 2-3K hp i might even need 10k hp clickie for 20 seconds. Best use i found so far for this epic moment was swiming in mod while was learning that part to do first times. most of times as tank you have 1500-2000 hp before you heal so this T6 epic moment single use is not evne worth to have.

Exalted Angel: Used by light/alignment/heal casters
- This ED is used primarily by ES warlocks, clerics and FvS. Pure FvS get Leap of Faith at 17 and Fey Warlocks get Misty Escape, which are functionally similar and therefore it's totally reasonable to include LoF in EA for them. Clerics are otherwise lacking in mobility and deserve it, especially considering Monks and Sorcerers also have access to it. You're correct that they only have to spend 2 AP to get it, but given the other T5 ability is a one-minute daze and that the T6 abilities are stellar, it's a pretty fair trade.
- The +3 DC is a lot, but the classes that use this tree aren't getting it from many other places. Angel of Vengeance doesn't get any DC boosts from the enhancement line, and Warlock gets +1/+2 to Necro/Enchant/Conjuration from one of its trees (one each in T4/T5). Divine Disciple clerics choose between +1 Evo and +1 Necro. There's also the issue of the types of spells being cast - alignment casters need at least two of Evo, Necro and Conjuration to compete with arcanes, which can get by with either Evo or Necro.

Will have comparison below but this ed is way too strong compared to other DC giving ed magister ed can only hide underleaf when you compare them

Divine Crusader: Used by physical damage dealers that have a decent mana pool (Paladin, Rangers, Melee Druids, Bards, Warpriests, melee Warlocks, and various multiclassed folks). I'm sure Divine Crusader casters are out there, and the tree seems like it could work for them, but I've never seen any before
- Purification applies to nearby enemies and/or enemies recently hit by your attacks/spells. Castigation requires Aura of Purification, so it's not particularly useful for ranged attackers. Stacks of Purification are added every 3 seconds, on every crit (max of every 2 seconds per target), and on every spell hit (including Consecration). Assuming Consecration is down and you're critting the target every two seconds, it'll still be about 21 seconds before an enemy gets full stacks. Bosses will then take ~7d6 damage per second, which is pretty insignificant. The percent current health on non-bosses is absurd assuming they have full stacks. I'm not a top-tier player, but most of my AOE trash fights take less than 30 seconds. Compared to a fully-stacked Blitz, you might actually be losing damage using DC.

1st not sure you know Consecration can be used while raging, giving barbs free heals without rage interuption without even killing someone or hitting, while at same time doing damage.
And not sure you saw stuff like this, but in EE necro4 offen it makes more sense for tankks to pur Consecration while grabbing aggro or kiting in it and killing EE bunch of monsters faster than blitz users by doing % of monster hp. we used to even farm vol as tanks like this, pull as may as you can and kill with zone effect, it heals you/you have own heals makes peace of cake to stay full hp while clearing hordes of monsters.
Also don't forget legendary difficulty monster hp scales even further, and effect itlsef scales with hp too, so as long as it works like this more hp monster have bigger dps it is. oranged named monster were getting from it hits for 10-20k / tick each 3 seconds while fully stacked if you think it's normal i doubt.

Arcane Sphere

Draconic Incarnation: Used by elemental evocation casters (primarily Sorcerers)
- I think you're correct about Energy Burst being overpowered as a twistable ability, especially compared to Dragon Breath. A quick-and-easy fix would be to swap the two - make EB T5 and DB T4. This makes the T5 ability have a shorter cooldown, no charge limit and a better area of effect than a T4 of identical power.

You made correct statement here, i agree and pointed it T5 ability have longer cd limited uses harder hitbox and managment than T4 twistable effect. You could even say Energy Burst is best signature of entire ED and anyone can access it.

Also Caster levels in cores are identical as magisters, which gives another +6? caster level to casters like druids/sorcs? Pure sorc gets form entire enchamtne line +6 caster level and ed gives another +6 add some items like abishai set and new feats which removes cap we get huge increase in this side already on top of that cores gives even more sp to those casters who have already mana pools of 4k even without this ed. More uses of ruin etc?

Magister: Used by wizards (anyone else?)
- This one seems pretty solid to me. It's got a ton of really useful low-tier abilities (DC increases, sigils for buffing yourself AND allies, cooldown reduction), a solid level 5 core, further DC increases at T5, sp reduction and a stellar team-oriented Epic Moment. I'm honestly kind of surprised more people don't use this ED. A lot of casters end up twisting several of the T1-T4 abilities, but why not get them all and get other twists for further versatility? A total of +6 to a specific DC, with a cooldown for another universal +5, doesn't seem underpowered to me. EA with some Magister twists might be better certain types of casters, but that doesn't make Magister useless for the other types.

I had pure wiz cc caster life while cc ee mod raid, and at best i could say about entire ed it's so bad i feel ashamed i even tryed to use it. Here some thgouhts you mention about sigils and sp reduction take this example of later
If i have 3000 sp, and i cast spells for let's say 100 base sp (for simple math example), T6 of magister saves me 10% spell points so by casting 30 spells without it it allows me to cast 33. Seems about right but now compare T1 exalted angel effect which gives 10% to entire pool and increases regeneration limit it makes my mana pool 10% bigger to 3300 alowing me to cast those same 33 spells, and 10% starts working when spells cost more than 9 sp? So in short T1 exalted angel pool twist is better in any sense than T6 magister limited sp reduction?
Dont forget also that magister have to invest 12 ap to int/cha to get +3 dc on all schools where exalted angel gets it for free
Now sum some stuff 12ap scores +3 ap school dc +2 ap 10% reduction even at t1 you miss scores to level and prob will pick +6 will and roll 1 no auto fail encahnt thats in total are 20AP to get same benefit in sense as exalted angel gets almost for free.
Sigils are terrible designed they are static as caster most of time you have to move arround not even able to be in those sigils you place, and even to get them you have no choice than lose DC.
Why i mentioned this? Even dc casters who understand that much will agree tree is too terible to even be usable, while you can twist prob best stuff from tree to exalted while getting leap/poke/dc/pool and other abilities in ED by keeping practicaly identical DC score.

Fatesinger: Used by Spellsingers (anyone else?)
- I'll agree that the songs need to scale with spellpower. The epic moment, on the other hand, seems to fit pretty well given the rest of this tree. This ED was designed for bards, but doesn't really compare to LD or DC for melee builds. The only folks using this are Spellsingers, who get a lot of bonuses to song duration (+80% from Spellsinger, +50% from Fatesinger), bringing the Epic Moment duration up to 46 seconds. If a Spellsinger is low on mana or songs and needs to do physical damage, this ability seems like a good equalizer. It isn't as good as Master's Blitz, but it does allow a caster in a caster ED to do melee (or ranged) damage on par with the melees in its party. If you're unsatisfied with it, roll up a Spellsinger/Swashbuckler, give it a go, and then we'll talk. Because that's who it's intended for. It's not like Spellsingers have another ED that would work for them particularly well.

I played multiple bard lives if i would place them it would look something as Warchanter > spellsinger > swash, tbh more than 17-20 ap in swash investment is a mistake compared to what other tree gives. Warcahnter and swash difference is like day and night and some ppl don't get how bad swash are in sense, but i won't talk about it. As pure spellsinger i barely got any benefit from ED which is designed arround spellsinger moslty, some dc imporvement and extra songs. i have 42 regenerating songs already there is no reason to get up to 60 or so on top of that. what spellsinger lacks are way to improve damage in epics. Sorcs gets draconic bursts etc. Spellsinger who are techicly by tree same sorcs using sonic damage gets nothing. Even dirge that single aoe damage effect cost song use and does way less damage than firewall in heroic does. And for melee perspective 42 seconds effect like this is a joke It's this ed Epic moment, if you compare to blitz (let's call it epic moment), it have no use most of times not even worth to pick. Limited duration massive cooldown and less damage than blitz which have in theory no duration limit, lower dc, and gives way better effects.

Primal

Shiradi: Used by EB warlocks, archers, throwers, ray-based casters (and repeater builds?)
- AFAIK, ranged DON'T tend to use this tree a whole lot even though it's built for them. The current fad for throwers seems to be twisting Whirling Wrists and running LD. I doubt crossbow users of any sort would consider this tree unless Master's Blitz gets nerfed or the alacrity is similarly unbalanced. The recent changes to AA have buffed archers in this ED, which is the sustained bow damage to FotW's burst.
- EB warlocks and spell-spammer casters don't get a lot of benefit from other trees. Neither use DCs much, so Magister is underwhelming. Draconic helps the latter but not the former. EA helps the former but not the latter. Essentially, this gives these two builds a second ED choice, rather than locking them into just one.
- The to-hit makes it so archers don't have to max both Str and Dex (and Wis, if you're AA), though this is a holdover from before DWS changes to improved weapon finesse. Given most other physical damage dealers get to pick one damage stat, why shouldn't archers get this option?

I understand it's used by many casters mostly shiradi casters thats why we call them, but this tree is only 1 who effects ranged weapons without same blitz whick up to T6 favors only melee weapons. Blitz is superior to this tree for a simple reason in ranged, it gives 70 RP, while shiradi tree gives none. Even those effects in tree favors mostly thrown weapons and casters. 7% to trigger random effect on bow which most of dimes will be bad and not noticeble, the only users on ranged of this tree might be shurikens by number of attack speed/ low damage and chance to trigger. Crossbows/Gcrossbows/Bows gets way better options in same old LD ed making this ed favor only casters and shurikens leaving All archers without any real ed option, while there are like 3 ed favoring a single classes mostly grandmaster/shadowdancer/fatesinger

Fury of the Wild: Used by Barbarians, Furyshotters (anyone else?)
- In general, this tree is built more for burst damage than sustained damage, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Melees already have LD and DC for sustained damage, and full-time archers have Shiradi and LD (though AA folks are probably using the former). Furyshot archers are less popular now because of the removal of Manyshot's doubleshot penalty, but they were always sort of a one-trick pony. They can do 150k damage in one shot, but that's only every 5 minutes. The rest of the time their damage is worse than it would be in LD, DC or Shiradi.
- Sense Weakness is powerful, there's no denying that. But it costs a lot of Fate Points to twist and it only begins to shore up the lack of sustained damage that the tree otherwise suffers from.
- You mention a need for more Con, Str and rage duration (or general survivability), but I don't really see a need for any of these things. Con and Str would help the Furyshot builds you were complaining about, and Barbarians don't particularly need more survivability. Barbarians don't really run out of rages unless they spam Visage of Terror. IMO, it's nice that the tree grants some alternative benefits (+1dWhatever damage on hit, Wis/saves while raged) because they make an already-binary ED less binary and min-max-y.

Don'g get me wrong you made right points but again, you talk about dead fury shooters? Bows got more sustained dps And they are still behind greatcrossbows/repeaters. Even if they pick same LD they will stay behind, What devs did was to kill only option and way how Bow users could compete to other archers. If you see once in 30 seconds big numbers it doesn't mean Gcrossbow in same time won't be done already more damage. Right now for fury archers there is only 1 Build left pure ranger 41 AP AA, 39 Deepwood, to get as much doublstrike as you can and jet what you get this way is like 2.5 arrows. Shurikens can use slay arrows shoot up to 6 while having high dex etc they are new fury archers if build properly doing lower base damage in comparison of bows but at same time doing lots of attacks without limitation of manyshoot. And if ED favors burst spike damage builds, again same LD is way better you can even notice most barbs understanding that much and using LD rather than fury which again in theory designed for them?
For sense weakness most of times i go (4 3 2 1) or (4 4 1 1)r something like this and on even archers i pick it, with nerve venom, with blitz synergy is too strong you get 30% more damage most of times.

Primal Avatar: Used by Tree builds, some Rangers, Druids
- First off, PA has a bunch of group bonuses like Summer Smoke, Autumn Harvest, and the practically worthless companion summon. In a large group, SS is gonna contribute a lot more than any ED ability that increases just your damage.
- I'm not sure which exploit build you're talking about (TWF/SWF druid? They use LD), but a tree build is usable by a lot of class splits.
- It's not really a "caster tree" so much as a hybrid tree, granting bonuses to both melee and spell casting without stellar bonuses to either. Given its associated class is druid, that seems logically consistent. I personally don't see many caster druids these days, but those I do are Helios builds or cold casters - specialized builds, rather than generalists, which are going to cherry-pick the ED that grants slightly higher damage in exchange for versatility.
- Rejuv Cocoon only heals while the shield is active, making it pointless in melee. If you have a second to step out of combat and heal yourself up, you may as well just use Heal scrolls and save yourself the spell points. Rejuv only heals one target, unlike Consecration, which heals ~10 per 3s vs. Rejuv's 5d6 (~18) per 2s (and has a bevy of other benefits)

Effects and benefits on them are so weak they are hardly noticeble so no reason even talk about them summer smoke triggers so rarery i dont even bother to use it. And about cocon, at 28 by having devotion and amp i was healign myself just by jumping out of combat as archer for 1+k Hp for 12 sp, if scrolls who even require scroll mastery to be anny way of effective otherwise healing 300-400 at best with slow cast and requiring UMD, cocon is way superior for any build, otherwise why 99% population of fleshy uses it as twist? It's too strong it beats other healing effects way too much and it's only T1.
For broken builds i mean exploit treefolks, who keeps Tree form 9/10 of fights in quest instead or 1/10. entire ed charge policy is workign not WAI even if it says on cast of something they get charges from any lasting effect like arcon/death aura/cleric aura/warlcok aura etc.
Also i mentioned 5% damge on duals compared to vorpal knokcdown with no save better effect is placed at T3, and lesser in T4 seems strnage design also.

Martial

Grandmaster of Flowers: Used by melee monks (few and far-between)
- Monks aren't balanced right now and are due for an update (which is supposedly happening around U31?)
- I could see some Clonk or Drunker builds using this to great effect. It might not be quite as powerful as another ED, but it would have some good flavor

You talk abotu future and i tlak about now, even if monk pass was made ED still inferior to LD can't see more use of this ed as twists and maybe epic moment for fun in some quests like temple where again pure dps/tankishness of LD is better option.

Shadowdancer: Used by assassins, artificer repeater builds (for survivability)
- Assassinate DC: I have no problem with granting further bonuses to a hard-to-use, underpowered spec
- Evasion gives some incentive for non-assassins, like artificers. With IPS, I can see the epic moment being fantastic for these folks as well
- Shadow Form: Just because another class gets a similar ability with a shorter duration as a core doesn't make this one worthless. Since Shadowdancer users probably won't get a huge benefit from both Consume and Dark Imbuement, this seems like a great T6.
- Executioner's Strike is a secondary Assassinate, which comes in real handy given that tree is built around one attack with a 12s cooldown. The ranged version isn't redundant like the melee version is, making it even more valuable. With the kind of Dex scores a Shadowdancer is going to have, the 35% is low but not absurdly so.

You pointed nice stuff and again i can't agree with you. current artificers lacks so much in epics they are inferior to lvl 5 rog splashes by dps, Shadow form situationally good, there are way cheaper and better ways to get similiar benefits than T6 ability with long line of prerequisitions.
And assisination is beyond worthelss image situation you have neither int/dex and if you try assisinate mosnter he can roll 1 and die even if you have no dc. so normal assisination with no dc haves 5% to kill each Cooldown: 12 seconds.)
Compare to effect whch have 35% or 1/3 to even trigger save with cd 30 seconds. in same condition it's only 1.75% to work. It's 9x worse as T5 ED ability

Legendary Dreadnought: Used by pretty much every physical damage build
- 50 HP is a drop in the bucket for most characters. Arguably, it's not even worth the risk of being in melee.
- Lay Waste and Momentum Swing are used by THF builds and don't hold up quite as well for TWF. That being said, these are FANTASTIC twists for THF builds in other EDs. I ran my admittedly-subpar FvS past life (THF Warpriest 17 FvS, 3 Paladin) in DC with these twisted and have no regrets.
- Fully stacked Blitz is absolutely OP compared to other ED epic moments, but is often given more credit than it deserves. 30 PRR is great for squishy characters (Monks and Rangers top out at about 120 PRR, AFAIK) but is not a huge % damage reduction for heavily armored builds (200? 250?). More importantly, 70 MP/RP =/= 70% damage. Instead, it means 70% increased BASE damage. As of a couple patches ago, endgame barbarians topped out at about 290 MP including Blitz - the extra 70 from Master's Blitz increased their weapon damage by 22% (3.9/3.2). This is an extreme example, as most other builds cap out around 200 MP, but MP also doesn't affect most types of damage. On-hit effects, most activated abilities, and spellcasts on hybrids don't benefit from this extra damage.

Not much to mention It's top dog of dps builds while also giving ways to survive. When you mentioned dex based dps, my personal opinion is that builds like that is a joke or a fairy tale ppl wanna to follow even after dex as melee damage score still is at end of rope. Str gives all cc abiities - trip/stuning blow even in this tree cleave which knocks all arround? even on duals i use it, when you get in tight spot by doing slow cleave to knock all mobs arround i assume as valid option. This ed favors again all dps builds by giving 70% to they base damage so in some sense nrea doubling it. any other ed is not even close of strength of this ed even counting out Blitz itself

[AzureDragonas]

This is what I personally think should be done to the weaker ED's:

Shadow Dancer

• Shadow Training I: Passive Bonus: You gain +1 Sneak Attack die, +4 Melee and Ranged Power, +10% Sneak Attack scaling with Melee/Ranged power for each level of Shadowdancer.
• New Enhancment: (Tier 4) Passive Bonus: +[4/8/12] to dodge cap. (EDP: 1 Ranks:3)
• New Enhancment: (Tier 4) Passive Bonus: +[4/8/12] to dodge. (EDP: 1 Ranks:3)
• Dark Imbuement: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 45 Seconds) Remove:Each time an enemy affected by your Dark Shrouding mark dies, you additionally gain 1 Dark Imbuement charge. When you have accumulated 20 of these charges, you can expend them to enchant your melee and ranged attacks with shadowy energy. For 30 seconds, you deal an extra 2d6 unholy damage with every strike, the effective range of your melee attacks increases dramatically striking 4 targets per swing instead of one, and your ranged attacks have a 30% chance to explode, dealing 10d6 unholy damage to all enemies in a large radius around your target.

Grandmaster of Flowers

• Running with Wind: Passive Bonus: Electricity resistance [4/8/12], +[10/20/30]% enhancement bonus to movement speed. If you have Monk levels and are in Wind stance, +[5/10/15]% chance to doublestrike, +[3/6/10]% chance to make offhand attacks, and +[0/2/5] Melee Alacrity.
• Walking with Waves: Passive Bonus: Gain cold resistance [4/8/12] and +[2/4/6] to AC. If you have Monk levels and are in Ocean stance, +[3/6/10]% Dodge, Dodge Cap, and Incoprial.
• Standing with Stone: Passive Bonus: Acid resistance [4/8/12], +[5/10/15] max HP. If you have Monk levels and are in Earth stance, +[5/10/15] PRR and MRR, [15/20/25]% Fortification. Rank 3 Immunity to Knockdown.
• Dancing with Flames: Passive Bonus: Gain fire resistance [4/8/12]. Gain +[1/2/3] to attack and damage rolls. If you have Monk levels and are in Fire stance, add [0.50/1.00/1.5][W] to your weapons and [10/15/20] Melee power.
• New Enhancement: (Tier 5) Passsive Bonus: +[10/20/30] Melee Power. (EDP: 1 Ranks:3)

Fury of the Wild

• - New Enhancement: (Tier 5) Passive Bonus: Increases the critical multiplier of weapons you equip by 1. Heavy Picks, Battleaxe, Dwarven Axe, Greateaxe, Longbow, Shortbow, Warhammer, Maul, Morningstar, Heavy Mace, Greatclub, and Club gain increase the critical multiplier by an aditional +1 (total +2).

Primal Avatar

• Symetric Strikes: Passive Bonus: +10 Primal bonus to melee power, while in animal form, unarmed, or two-weapon fighting.
• Nature's Fury: Passive Bonus: Gain +1 critical damage multiplier on a roll of 19-20, +10% doublestrike, +1 Bonus to Critical Threat Range, and your attacks now bypass 10% fortification.

Shiradi Champion

• Fey Favor: Passive Bonus: You gain 100 SP and proficiency with longbows and shortbows and +1 ranged damage. You gain Druid and Ranger caster levels equal to your Shiradi Champion level if you have any levels in those classes.Each time you Vorpal with ranged and thrown attacks you gain Favor of the Fey. You gain Favor of the Fey 7% of the time you cast offensive spells. You gain +5% doubleshot for each levels of Shiradi Champion.
• NOTE: All shiradi champion proc effects now scale with the appropriate spell power when applied by a bow not just a spell cast.

Fatesinger

• Turn of the Tide: (Active Cooldown: 6 mins) Spontaneous Song (expend a song to activate). Turn of the Tide grants a full BAB, +3 to hit, +40 Melee Power, DR 15/-, a +4 Charisma, and deals +5d10 +75 Sonic damage and +5d10 +75 Light damage per hit. Remove:(This magical damage does not affect Bosses.) While under the effects of Turn of the Tide, rolling a 1 on a Will save is not an automatic failure. Duration: 60 seconds (affected by lingering song and similar effects).
• Fragment of the Song: Valor: (Passive) Your Inspire Courage grants you and your party an additional [+1/+2] to damage. In addition, you gain the following personal bonuses: +[3/5]% melee attack speed, +[10/20] temporary HP, +[5/10] Intimidate, +[5/10] to hit, and +[5/10] Melee Power. Rank 1: Removes combat penalties for moving. Rank 2: Gives you a 2% chance to cause 5% electric/light/sonic vulnerability (stacks 3 times).
• Fragment of the Song: Clarity: (Passive) All of your Songs gain [10/20]% their duration. Additionally, your Inspire Courage grants additional effects only for you: Your spells cost [5/10]% less to cast, +[5/10] Concentration, +[20/40] temporary Spell Points, +[10/20] Universal Spell Power and +[3/5]% spell critcal chance.

Your ideas are good example how help some ED which are unusable right now with some exceptions. More ideas on changes how help underated and how tune down OP ed would be good, maybe devs will pay attention to suggestions

[Silverleafeon]

Before rebalancing the Devs might consider this game changer:

Is there any way to change the maximum number of points allowed for each epic destiny?

/signed

There is no path at this time, however if you carefully look at the design of epic destinies, you will find your toon has gained xp one point shy of level six, instead of stopping at the beginning of level 5, the xp stops at the end of level 5.

When the epic destinies were created, level cap stopped at 25, hence the epic destinies match thus with Heroic 20 + Epic Destinies 5 = level cap of 25.

If you compare the amount of points to spend in the trees with enhancement point trees, you will find that the epic destiny trees are not full purchased out compared to the enhancement point trees.

Revising of certain trees such as Exalted Angel and the newer designed Divine Crusader placed a large amount of abilities in tier 6 which is a very limited area with the current amount of points.

The path to more epic destinies points is simply increasing the levels of epic destinies available from 5 to 10; this will match the upcoming level cap of heroic 20 + epic destiny 10 = level cap of 30.

However, there are certain concerns which I will list:

• Will this require more Dev time to increase features in epic destinies? ~~ I don't feel any new features are needed, simply increase points available to spend in the tree.
  
  
• Will these extra level be available at level 20? ~~ I prefer the extra points to be spent be allowed at higher levels, such as level cap 30 as a legendary feature, or spending the extra points when epic level = epic destiny levels that are over 5 which would allow an extra 4 points to spend at level 26, an extra 4 points to spend at level 27, an extra 4 points to spend at level 28, an extra 4 points to spend at level 29, an extra 4 points to spend at level 30. This would make the higher levels more exciting to gain, and would stagger epic destiny power at upper levels. Reincarnating would need to reset these extra points, although I would prefer reincarnating to reset all epic destiny points, as a new build usually requires new choices.
  
  
• Will this increase potential max DC numbers thereby creating a problem for the Devs to increase monster values? ~~ No the max DCs would already be there to take if one choose anyway.
  
  
• Will this make some Epic Destinies stronger? ~~ Yes, some epic destinies will get stronger such as Magistar by allowing players to pursue the higher end features of Null Magic. Also Exalted Angel would be able to take Sunbolt, Divine Wrath, and Reborn. The increase of Magistar is already desirable. Many of the melee power increases are tied to innates which would not increase any, instead of being incorrectly tied to epic destiny levels, therefore that would not be a problem. But yes I agree, overall more points to spent will likely allow everyone to have +6 stat increase plus the enjoyable goodies that an epic destinies has to offer, so will that +6 stat make a huge difference for everyone. For melee this means +3 to hit and +3 damage, which seems mild to me. For casters this means more uniform DC values for everyone, making the Devs job to balance monster's saving throws easier.
  
  
• Will this create more fate points to spend? ~~ Yes it will greatly increase available Fate points. However with five twists available, Fate Point math is a very hungry monster to feed. There will be ((3*4*5)/3)=20 more fate points to spend. Unlocking and upgrading your fourth twist to tier four will cost 4+5+6+7 = 22 fate points alone.
  
  
• Will this be problematics to code? ~~ Well, I don't know who created the epic destiny system, but surely notes are left as its a later coding, and surely the expansion was using better language? Since the design seems to be looking towards an increase, surely there is options to increase it?
  

I am not saying your post don't have merit because they do, but now is the time for the devs to sit down and give a thumbs up/thumbs down on this topic.

[AzureDragonas]

Before rebalancing the Devs might consider this game changer:



/signed

There is no path at this time, however if you carefully look at the design of epic destinies, you will find your toon has gained xp one point shy of level six, instead of stopping at the beginning of level 5, the xp stops at the end of level 5.

When the epic destinies were created, level cap stopped at 25, hence the epic destinies match thus with Heroic 20 + Epic Destinies 5 = level cap of 25.

If you compare the amount of points to spend in the trees with enhancement point trees, you will find that the epic destiny trees are not full purchased out compared to the enhancement point trees.

Revising of certain trees such as Exalted Angel and the newer designed Divine Crusader placed a large amount of abilities in tier 6 which is a very limited area with the current amount of points.

The path to more epic destinies points is simply increasing the levels of epic destinies available from 5 to 10; this will match the upcoming level cap of heroic 20 + epic destiny 10 = level cap of 30.

However, there are certain concerns which I will list:

• Will this require more Dev time to increase features in epic destinies? ~~ I don't feel any new features are needed, simply increase points available to spend in the tree.
  
  
• Will these extra level be available at level 20? ~~ I prefer the extra points to be spent be allowed at higher levels, such as level cap 30 as a legendary feature, or spending the extra points when epic level = epic destiny levels that are over 5 which would allow an extra 4 points to spend at level 26, an extra 4 points to spend at level 27, an extra 4 points to spend at level 28, an extra 4 points to spend at level 29, an extra 4 points to spend at level 30. This would make the higher levels more exciting to gain, and would stagger epic destiny power at upper levels. Reincarnating would need to reset these extra points, although I would prefer reincarnating to reset all epic destiny points, as a new build usually requires new choices.
  
  
• Will this increase potential max DC numbers thereby creating a problem for the Devs to increase monster values? ~~ No the max DCs would already be there to take if one choose anyway.
  
  
• Will this make some Epic Destinies stronger? ~~ Yes, some epic destinies will get stronger such as Magistar by allowing players to pursue the higher end features of Null Magic. Also Exalted Angel would be able to take Sunbolt, Divine Wrath, and Reborn. The increase of Magistar is already desirable. Many of the melee power increases are tied to innates which would not increase any, instead of being incorrectly tied to epic destiny levels, therefore that would not be a problem. But yes I agree, overall more points to spent will likely allow everyone to have +6 stat increase plus the enjoyable goodies that an epic destinies has to offer, so will that +6 stat make a huge difference for everyone. For melee this means +3 to hit and +3 damage, which seems mild to me. For casters this means more uniform DC values for everyone, making the Devs job to balance monster's saving throws easier.
  
  
• Will this create more fate points to spend? ~~ Yes it will greatly increase available Fate points. However with five twists available, Fate Point math is a very hungry monster to feed. There will be ((3*4*5)/3)=20 more fate points to spend. Unlocking and upgrading your fourth twist to tier four will cost 4+5+6+7 = 22 fate points alone.
  
  
• Will this be problematics to code? ~~ Well, I don't know who created the epic destiny system, but surely notes are left as its a later coding, and surely the expansion was using better language? Since the design seems to be looking towards an increase, surely there is options to increase it?
  

I am not saying your post don't have merit because they do, but now is the time for the devs to sit down and give a thumbs up/thumbs down on this topic.

Your idea seems interesting but i am not sure if it's good. Choices must be limited, i pointed that some ed gets better benefits on damage/dc etc compared to similiar ones exluding some ed of viable choices or making them jsut twistable in sense. If you give more twists or points to spend in ed you would make things worse. If i understood you correctly you suggest to add +20 points to spend in ed:
1. so shuricannons can max both dex colors paralyzing etc.
2. blitz can get same damage + extra +6 con givving extra 100 hp before all scalings
3. monks can get max dc max damage all imunities
4. Crusaders gets same bursts all imunities special attacks and even more damage?
5. Draconics maxing all damage and DC making them again better even more compared to magister
6. Magister more effects but they are already worse than others thats why they are limited and not desired.
7. Fury gives even more damage and stats spell resistance.
8. etc...

So idea to give even a bit more points would just make things more inbalanced. Better would be adjust effects so T1 heal woudnt be better than T3, or best effects in ed woudnt be twistable, or even make weaker ed stronger and competitive to similiar ed

[AzureDragonas]

I find most of your suggestions to be disruptive, game killing and otherwise really unwanted, especially where they involve removing things like Leap of Faith, changing the twist-ability of things and otherwise making wholesale changes that would disrupt builds and cause people to rabble rabble for LR20's. Your appraisal of many things is grossly exaggerated, simply wrong or completely Forum DDO "read it on wiki so I have no idea that it's actually pretty good if I had used it" type stuff. The thing is there's just too much wrong to even go point for point and be more specific...

Sry for ignoring you i would love to hear on what u disagree at least, but as far as my memmory goes you are the one who looks like not even playing game and talking about stuff on wiki, that i pointed out are mostly effects i used in multiple lifes different builds while trying all and each ed abilities to either test or confirm how good/bad they are same with exploited builds etc i did while leading ee end game raids or being part of them, while runing mostly ee difficulty and runing eh only by farming raids or xp quests. When i see most of your arguments it looks so strange to me but again as mentioned before i even doubt you play this game at all.

As council member in past, when somone tryes show how some ed are too bad to be even used by classes they were designed while others are top dogs or effects that are twistable even as T1 while beating T5-T6 effects in sense, i try to make feedback of what others think, while you seems neither have experience in game or not even tryed any combination builds at all, and again give your understandint in theory. I don't mind be using on Qstafff builds sense weakness and hitting 10k+ on helpless as its normal or On warchanter shoot energy bursts just a bit weaker than real sorc, by compensating that again with multiple freeze cleave effect? I really enjoy making strong builds runing those ee raids some ppl call imposible to do or even farmin with no real problem ee toee on those builds while again some ppl tryes to say those quests are too hard for them and should be tuned down. I use in game experience and trying to ask is it really are balance in ed while T4 twistable effect is better than any other ed effect at T5-6? or T1 heal can fully heal some builds making it best T1 twist in game, making even ppl who buy ED go for it first? Before you comment about something at least have some valid arguments pls.

[Tlorrd]

Divine Crusader
As caster-fighter type ed it's good but there are something hidden what is broken in entire tree
Castigation: Your Aura of Purification also harms nearby enemies, dealing Bane damage every 3 seconds. Non-bosses take damage equal to 1% of their current health for each stack of Purification they have. Bosses instead take 1d6 Bane damage per stack of Purification.

it can cap to 25% of bane damage equal to current HP, this effect can allow you kill monsters by doing minimal damage or aoe damage to give dozen stacks quikly, in any sense damage which says i remove % of hp should not exist (Learn lessons from MF)

I thought castigation was bugged and did not apply the 1d6 bane to bosses. It actually did the bane damage and damage to % health to orange names and just the % health to normal mobs.

[AzureDragonas]

I thought castigation was bugged and did not apply the 1d6 bane to bosses. It actually did the bane damage and damage to % health to orange names and just the % health to normal mobs.

Not sure abotu bosses but i tryed this while farming jibers and necro4 vol, with fvs tank, you just stand placing it shoot some aoe on pulled monsters and place quick those stacks, you do nothing just shield block and monsters dies out. Seems as bad design for effect which requires you just to cast and stand. It's not FW or something like to compare too. for simple reason FW and similiar effects have limited damage output, which makes against weaker opponents strong, and against stronger weak. How this effect works it makes moster killing time identical, no matter hp unless hes rednamed he just die by loosing dozen of hp each 3 secs.

[FranOhmsford]

Just wanted to share some thoughts after trying all destinies in different life and having some thoughts about each.

So gonna talk about speheres, and some tweaking nerfing/improving where i think should be needed

Divine Spehere

Cores different and dont dublicate so its k i guess.

Divine Crusader
As caster-fighter type ed it's good but there are something hidden what is broken in entire tree
Castigation: Your Aura of Purification also harms nearby enemies, dealing Bane damage every 3 seconds. Non-bosses take damage equal to 1% of their current health for each stack of Purification they have. Bosses instead take 1d6 Bane damage per stack of Purification.

it can cap to 25% of bane damage equal to current HP, this effect can allow you kill monsters by doing minimal damage or aoe damage to give dozen stacks quikly, in any sense damage which says i remove % of hp should not exist (Learn lessons from MF)

So you want to remove the one thing from Crusader that makes it a worthwhile challenger to Leg Dread?

I don't like Castigation OR Consecration which means I don't like Crusader at all but I wouldn't ask for them to be removed if I didn't have a decent alternative to put in their place!

Exalted Angel
1.st It's a fine ed for light based casters but there are couple issues. I don't mind that anyone can access ed it's maybe fair, but i do mind some effects like
Leap of Faith: Active Ability: (Cooldown 3 seconds, 10 sp) Leap through air (like leap of faith). Costs 10 sp, recharges at a rate of 15 seconds in private areas and 3 seconds in public areas. If you already possess this ability, it now recharges at a rate of 1 every 12 seconds in private areas.

It should be unique effect which is accessed by couple classes by either investent in class (fvs/monk) or by investment in ap (sorc-air). To let anyone who uses this ed get leap for 2 AP it's not fair.

What annoys me about EA is that it's so heavily targeted at Light Spam Clerics/Souls - What about DC Clerics/Souls who get NOTHING?

It's also known to be the best ED for Fey Warlocks though mine hasn't got to it yet to test whether that's true for me.

As for Leap of Faith:
1) You missed out Acrobat {Vault} and Paladin/Fighter Vanguard {Shield Charge} which both do the same thing!
2) It's a Tier 5 ED ability!

2.nd There is issue with cores, getting sla of cure moderate wounds mass maybe fair for ed, but getting at same time another for
Transcendental Magic: Passive Bonus:+3 to the DC of all your spells. It's hard to find reasoning why non aarchmage ed gets for free +3 to all dc schools while caster spec on dc ed gives some sp, caster level same as draconic and capstone of.
Arcane Spellsurge: Active Ability: (Cooldown 4 mins) +5 to all spell DCs for 20 seconds. - it's hard to use dc burst effect which lasts 20 seconds and have cooldown like this, while exalted angel gets so much dc all time+leap+usefull sla+good efects and heals for group

Arcane Spellsurge being atrocious doesn't mean EA needs nerfing! It means Magister needs a complete overhaul!

Sentinental - Is good tanking ed with some healing splash i really like it, but i find not fair of how "epic moment" works. I understand that getting 10k hp for 20 seconds is like OMG but, why it's once per rest, why it have no cd and not reusable, why in some raids where there are no shrines it's single clickie boost for 20 seconds.

20 seconds is nothing in DDO - I'm still not sold on whether Undying Vanguard is worth the Points Cost {It's not like we get 30 points to spend!}.

Arcane Sphere
Each ed should lead to different path, 2 spheres are technicly identical, while draconic should focus on caster level for damage with caster level cap increase too without sp bonus (sorc etc have enough sp already no reason to give them even more to use ruin more offen)
archamge on dc lets say +1 dc at least per core with spell penetration and sp for cc spells - make us choose it for those who wanna get highest dc on spells

Can't really argue with this - Draconic beats Magister all ends up!

Draconic incarnation -
1.st ED is nice for damage casters, energy burst OP, etc but it's kinda sad effects like Dragon breath have 5 uses only would love to see more clickies of it, 5 are not enough, if you wanna benefit from it you ust zerg to gather enough oppoennts to make it worth to use, turning down damage and letting use without 5 uses restriction would alow casters to zerg less on "gathering" bunch of mobs for burst.
2.nd Energy burst is too strong to be twistable, something that can go and do so much aoe damage if used wisely is bad option to give, anything that gives too much benefit compared to other choices leads to a point when ed itself is less atractive while you get best things in twists. It should be at least T5 as leap and other similiar effects, shooting 5-15k fire blasts on my warchanter who uses cha scrore on frozen mobs leads to inbalance.
3.rd it's kinda hard to benefit on epic moment which says gather as much as possible monsters to benefit (also charge getting is kinda broken and takes too long)

Umm....This is a good point as well - I hate the Zerg playstyle and don't want to be forced into it!

FateSinger
Ed is terrible even for bards who should main it, no other build would even use it while other ed a way better

Fatesinger is a superb ED for Fey Warlocks!

Is EA better? According to forumites yes but I haven't got to EA yet and Fatesinger is outright better than Draconic!

For Bards it's not terrible either - Swashies and Warchanters may choose to play in LD or DC or Fury but that's just a playstyle issue - Fatesinger requires an actual Bard Playstyle rather than that of a Paladin or Barbarian.

[Iron_Claw]

Divine crusader > Legendary dreadnought for the following reasons :

- Heal on kill.

- Overpowered aura doing massive hp damage.

- Zeal (Better than blitz).

- Petrification immunity and elemental absorption.

- Strike down, which does light damage for some reason.

- Healing amplification.

- Celestial Bombardment (which is better than you think).

- Consecration (which works while raged).


What blitz needs is a buff, raising the melee power to 100. Not a nerf.

[AzureDragonas]

Divine crusader > Legendary dreadnought for the following reasons :
- Heal on kill.

T1 twist on mysterious cloak/paladin pl 2x and devotion heals more than 1k my shuriken cannon.

- Overpowered aura doing massive hp damage.

after you stack it, which requires attacking or standing and kiting mobs, proper dps will kill monster faster than that mob even gets more than 10 stacks, for any other non-damage or tank as i told Another MF
which again invalidates build making ed to kill monster not you.

- Zeal (Better than blitz).

I won't arggue you already seems to be fallend from moon, where new updates gives even more DS making zeal even more worhtless while some builds already with killer T5 monk stances have 70-90 doublestrike standing and wolfs even 100 before it was even a thing.

- Petrification immunity and elemental absorption.

You mean same absoprions we get from ship already after damage reduction from emelental resistance? and petrification which are casted probably in 2-4 quests in entire game like WGU and abbot/mod?

- Strike down, which does light damage for some reason.

Y i know really fun 500 light damage while some builds with LD again on helpless does 10k on crits which can even doublestrike- good for tanks unusable for any Damage dealer

- Healing amplification.

i told even with 70-90 heal amp cocon with devotion can heal up 1k easily, makes DC really needed? It's more for those who like zerg get as many mobs as they can and put aura so they could survive till mobs dies again "WHILE THEY ZERG AND KITE IN AURA"

- Celestial Bombardment (which is better than you think).

Tryed never picked again, on caster to trow 100 spell points on maxed it or use ruin with energy burst? It's a T6 ability which is worse than T4 draconic twist

- Consecration (which works while raged).

So exploit that barbarian can use while raged? Casting spell while he can't even use primal screem. Mentioned should be fixed

What blitz needs is a buff, raising the melee power to 100. Not a nerf.

This 1 sorry is best again best dps ed for 99% population to raise even more while its already best choice becouse you can't make simple conclusions

[Iron_Claw]

T1 twist on mysterious cloak/paladin pl 2x and devotion heals more than 1k my shuriken cannon.



after you stack it, which requires attacking or standing and kiting mobs, proper dps will kill monster faster than that mob even gets more than 10 stacks, for any other non-damage or tank as i told Another MF
which again invalidates build making ed to kill monster not you.



I won't arggue you already seems to be fallend from moon, where new updates gives even more DS making zeal even more worhtless while some builds already with killer T5 monk stances have 70-90 doublestrike standing and wolfs even 100 before it was even a thing.



You mean same absoprions we get from ship already after damage reduction from emelental resistance? and petrification which are casted probably in 2-4 quests in entire game like WGU and abbot/mod?



Y i know really fun 500 light damage while some builds with LD again on helpless does 10k on crits which can even doublestrike- good for tanks unusable for any Damage dealer



i told even with 70-90 heal amp cocon with devotion can heal up 1k easily, makes DC really needed? It's more for those who like zerg get as many mobs as they can and put aura so they could survive till mobs dies again "WHILE THEY ZERG AND KITE IN AURA"



Tryed never picked again, on caster to trow 100 spell points on maxed it or use ruin with energy burst? It's a T6 ability which is worse than T4 draconic twist



So exploit that barbarian can use while raged? Casting spell while he can't even use primal screem. Mentioned should be fixed



This 1 sorry is best again best dps ed for 99% population to raise even more while its already best choice becouse you can't make simple conclusions

Nonsense.

who the heck cares if zeal is a boss ability ? Trash dies so quickly, no one gives a **** about that.

You need to kill the red/purple named to finish the quest. Just skip the trash and be done with it.

So yes, DC > LD.

[Discpsycho]

Maybe this is just a playstyle difference, but in my experience people end up dying more often to trash than bosses. The latter are usually solitary monsters that can be effectively kited (though not CC'ed) or tanked by a beefy player. The former tend to get pulled in overlarge numbers and while they can be CC'ed, it's hard to keep track of more than half a dozen un-CC'ed mobs and avoid being hit by them. I'm thinking specifically of WGU here, but I see a lot of quests where trash is more problematic than the boss(es). If we're talking raids, you've usually got a couple of designated healers who have their hands full with the pseudo-tanks, making the mitigation of damage dealt by trash even more important.

I'm not surprised that people run DC for dps tests - with endgame builds (like the ones used by folks who care about dps tests), the PRR is insignificant and the MP might only contribute 20% to weapon damage. It's got nothing on the burst provided by Zeal, especially for these endgame builds. If this game were more like WOW, where everyone's level-cap content was a DPS race against bosses with several million HP, then DC would blow LD out of the water (and it does against raid bosses). But this game is dungeon-oriented, not boss-oriented, meaning the lead-up to the boss is often as important (or more so) than the few tricks the boss can throw at you.

You seemed to take a lot of umbrage at my post with some rough numbers of Blitz damage - I'm glad you responded, but it would have been nice if you'd actually looked at the calculations, which included the diminishing returns of melee power. In your comparison between DC and LD, it would have been nice if you'd fairly represented the versatility of both EDs, which AzureDragonas pointed out in his post.

DC vs. LD is like the TWF vs. THF debate: TWF is clearly better for single-target damage, and THF is clearly better for AoE (aka trash) damage. TWF is better at burst thanks to abilities like Dance of Death and Zeal, and it benefits more from action boosts (if you deal X% more damage with your auto-attacks, then a 30% haste boost will help TWF .3*X% more than it will help a THF build).

We can argue numbers until the cows come home, but I think the best indication is what players tend to use more. I see a larger percentage of players using THF builds and/or running LD (which a LOT of builds can use to great effect and is more effective on builds with low MP/RP/PRR) than TWF and/or DC (which is higher single-target/burst DPS but requires more specific build parameters). Since trash fights take up a larger percentage of the time spent in dungeons, this slight preference for LD seems pretty logical. I'm still going to call them equal.

[AzureDragonas]

So you want to remove the one thing from Crusader that makes it a worthwhile challenger to Leg Dread?
I don't like Castigation OR Consecration which means I don't like Crusader at all but I wouldn't ask for them to be removed if I didn't have a decent alternative to put in their place!

Same but i pointed that its bugged Barbarians can use while raged, and for tanks it works same as MF but they just dont need attack just zerg pull mobs and tank till they die off. No saves nothing.

What annoys me about EA is that it's so heavily targeted at Light Spam Clerics/Souls - What about DC Clerics/Souls who get NOTHING?

it gives in core +3 to all dc and you can pick ability scores to get +3 more while twisting from same weak magister +3 even more and even more +2 from draconic if evocation/conjuration. Making this ed users to access in theory +11 dc - Magisters seems so bad choice when you think about this.

It's also known to be the best ED for Fey Warlocks though mine hasn't got to it yet to test whether that's true for me.

Never used fey warlock, but i guess its best ed for any warlock for simple reason to scale no save light damage any warlock can access in Enlightened Spirit not becouse its fey pact.

As for Leap of Faith:
1) You missed out Acrobat {Vault} and Paladin/Fighter Vanguard {Shield Charge} which both do the same thing!
2) It's a Tier 5 ED ability!

Y i forgot that to please people every class getting leap and move speed bonus from levels. At start it was only monk/barb, now we get rogs etc to make zerging even faster

Arcane Spellsurge being atrocious doesn't mean EA needs nerfing! It means Magister needs a complete overhaul!

Yep i pointed magister being so bad right now that at best you can use it as twistable ed nothing more, EA gives better DC than DC based ed can offer.

20 seconds is nothing in DDO - I'm still not sold on whether Undying Vanguard is worth the Points Cost {It's not like we get 30 points to spend!}.

Thats why i pick resurection and con at T6, 10k hp single click for 20 sec as epic moment is an insult. Good tank never will have chance to use it, for bads they will use (player issues) and will die eventually anyway won't save anyone

Can't really argue with this - Draconic beats Magister all ends up!

Well if we aggree that any caster ED beats magister hard to find spot for Magister to be used, without gimping yourself from better options.

Umm....This is a good point as well - I hate the Zerg playstyle and don't want to be forced into it!

Game needs balancing invest in higher damage get drawbacks or limited uses, hard to understand why Better ability is at T4 and twistable while worse and limited is at T5

Fatesinger is a superb ED for Fey Warlocks!

No idea but loks and contradiction to that EA is best becouse ES tree "Good" warlocks uses and that differs them from "Bad" warlocks

Is EA better? According to forumites yes but I haven't got to EA yet and Fatesinger is outright better than Draconic!

If you use Fey yes, if you use other 2 better draconic becouse of pact dices who scales with draconic.

For Bards it's not terrible either - Swashies and Warchanters may choose to play in LD or DC or Fury but that's just a playstyle issue - Fatesinger requires an actual Bard Playstyle rather than that of a Paladin or Barbarian.

Tryed multiple times to play spellsinger it's good had good dc etc but at end you do nothing just buff, banshee not working, and other issues so if group can't do damage you not gonna help much just keep wasting sp to cc same mobs over and over, also charm is broken so much, Devs was drunk when they let charmed mobs get saves increase. I understand you charm and thats k, but when you charm monster and give him lets say +16 to all scores (all pl feats etc), and same mob can make save each 6-8 sec but this time with +18 save (mind fog not workign anymore) hard to play charming toon - more pain than worth to use best ability spellsingers bards have at all