Building a Better Monkcher

[unbongwah]

Would this one lose much by going helf over elf?

You lose Shadow DM feat: bye-bye Displacement. But you gain a feat slot for Completionist and can take racial Ranged Power boost to double up, so hey: tradeoff.

Could this build be done with 2 rogue or arti instead of fighter?

Sure - particularly if you're dropping Shadow DM + Extend - but it might mess up your feat or leveling progression, because you need to take monk 12 by lvl 18 if you want Grandmaster of Forms there; otherwise it's delayed until epic lvls and epic feat slots are too tight already. Maybe level rog 1 / rgr 1-4 / monk 1-12 / rgr 5-6 / rog 2? You can put Manyshot into your lvl 9 feat slot; then swap it for Completionist just before you take rgr lvl 6. EDIT: rog splash would also open up stacking Stealthy speed boosts, which are apparently WAI (much to my surprise).

I haven't updated these builds yet for monk buffs. FYI, you can get Quick Draw feat free from the Henshin core but it costs 11 APs; and since these builds spend 6 Ninja + 14 racial + 41 AA to start, that doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room for APs.

[Pyyro_del_Drago]

You lose Shadow DM feat: bye-bye Displacement. But you gain a feat slot for Completionist and can take racial Ranged Power boost to double up, so hey: tradeoff.

I was thinking splashing rogue or arti might allow me to work on UMD a bit which might help with losing displacement? I used to run a monkcher with arti splash that could use scrolls, but that was before my hiatus, around when fall of truth dropped, so I don't know if something like that would be still be possible/viable.

Sure - particularly if you're dropping Shadow DM + Extend - but it might mess up your feat or leveling progression, because you need to take monk 12 by lvl 18 if you want Grandmaster of Forms there; otherwise it's delayed until epic lvls and epic feat slots are too tight already. Maybe level rog 1 / rgr 1-4 / monk 1-12 / rgr 5-6 / rog 2? You can put Manyshot into your lvl 9 feat slot; then swap it for Completionist just before you take rgr lvl 6. EDIT: rog splash would also open up stacking Stealthy speed boosts, which are apparently WAI (much to my surprise).

Would you suggest rogue splash over arti? Mainly for the extra sneak attack? Alright, that makes sense, I don't mind running a gimpy character through levels, as I'll mostly be concentrated on my end game build. Just need to make sure I remember to switch manyshot out, so I don't need to waste an LR! Stealthy speed boost would be great too, though I can imagine it would be hard to fit in the AP.

I haven't updated these builds yet for monk buffs. FYI, you can get Quick Draw feat free from the Henshin core but it costs 11 APs; and since these builds spend 6 Ninja + 14 racial + 41 AA to start, that doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room for APs.

Yeah, fair enough! I can imagine APs will be tough to map out with all of the options available. Definitely something that will take lots of planning with the monk changes and potentially rogue splash.

[C-Dog]

...Could this build be done with 2 rogue or arti instead of fighter?

If you're thinking of a Trapper version, might be tough - Int is a dumpstat, and Monk only gets 4 sp/lvl, so how to get all your Trap skills? Start moving Ranger around and I think you may run into Feat pre-req problems. But if you use the Character Planner, you might be able to jigger them all in?


But to answer your question directly (as I can find it irritating when people answer questions that were not asked, and not the one I actually did ask), OP answers that himself:

I use the extra feats from ftr to enable me to add Shadow DM + Extend spell...

So, if you don't mind losing those (or any 2 others of your choice), sure.


Might be perfectly viable in the end, just not "the best monkcher" - which is what this thread was about.

[Pyyro_del_Drago]

Might be perfectly viable in the end, just not "the best monkcher" - which is what this thread was about.

On that note, finally about to hit completionist and I want to know if this version of the build might work for my next extended grind of epic PLs. Wanted Dragonborn just for flavour and went the harper direction for KtA (and int to hit/dmg) and so I am able to get trapping with 2 levels of arti (also gaining umd). I know it may not be ideal because you lose elven AA tree (and so the capstone) and some shuriken doubleshot chance from going less dex.. But do you guys think this would be viable? Figured picking up KtA might help add some of the dps and UMD to balance out losing the displacement from elf DM. Would do same epic destiny enhancements/twists as Unbongwah listed in his 12/6/2 build.

Edit: that and the imbue from the rune arm and added effects on them could be fun when using shurikens.

Pyrau
12/6/2 Monk/Ranger/Artificer
Lawful Good Dragonborn


Level Order

1. Artificer . . . 6. Ranger . . . . 11. Monk . . . . . 16. Monk
2. Artificer . . . 7. Ranger . . . . 12. Monk . . . . . 17. Monk
3. Ranger. . . . . 8. Ranger . . . . 13. Monk . . . . . 18. Monk
4. Ranger. . . . . 9. Monk. . . . . .14. Monk. . . . . .19. Monk
5. Ranger. . . . .10. Monk. . . . . .15. Monk. . . . . .20. Monk


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 10. . . .+6. . . .4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 12. . . .+6. . . .8: DEX
Constitution. . 12. . . .+6. . . 12: DEX
Intelligence. . 18. . . .+6. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . 16. . . .+6. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . 10. . . .+6. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT

Skills
. . . . . A .A. R .R. R .R. R .R. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M
. . . . . 1 .2. 3 .4. 5 .6. 7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Disable . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Open Lo . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Search. . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
UMD . . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spellcr . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . . . . . . . . . ½. ½. ½. ½. 1. 1. 15
Spot. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Jump. . . . . . . . . . . . 1 .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
Balance . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .32 .6 10 10 10 10 11 11. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9 10 10 10 10 11 11
. . . . .32 .8 10 10 10 10 11 11. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9 10 10 10 10 11 11


Feats

.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.1 Dragon : Draconic Ancestry: Red
.3. . . . : Quick Draw
.3 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
.6. . . . : Completionist
.7 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
.9. . . . : Precision
.9 Monk . : Zen Archery
10 Monk . : Shuriken Expertise
11 Monk . : Path of Harmonious Balance
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
14 Monk . : Ten Thousand Stars
15. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
18. . . . : Improved Critical: Thrown
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Holy Strike
27 Epic . : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Embodiment of Law
30 Epic . : Grandmaster of Forms OR Epic Dmg Reduction
30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane


Spells

Ranger

1. Jump, Ram's Might

Artificer

1. Resist Energy, Enchant Armor, Enchant Weapons

Enhancements (80 AP)

Arcane Archer (40 AP)

• Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows
  1. Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild II, Shock Arrows
  2. Force Arrows III, Inferno Shot II, Elemental Damage
  3. Terror Arrows, Soul Magic, Elemental Damage
  4. Banishing Arrows, Paralyzing Arrows, Smiting Arrows, Elemental Damage
  5. Moonbow, Arrow of Slaying, Final Strike, Elemental Damage, Runebow

Ninja Spy (13 AP)

• Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training, Shadow Veil
  1. Sneak Attack Training, Acrobatic III
  2. Agility I, Sneak Attack Training
  3. Sneak Attack Training

Harper Agent (12 AP)

• Agent of Good I
  1. Traveler's Toughness II, Strategic Combat
  2. Versatile Adept II, Know the Angles III
  3. Strategic Combat

Deepwood Stalker (11 AP)

• Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot
  1. Favored Defense II, Stealthy III
  2. Melee/Range Power Boost III

Arcanotechnician (4 AP)

• Arcanotechnician
  1. Wand and Scroll Mastery III

[unbongwah]

I know it may not be ideal because you lose elven AA tree (and so the capstone) and some shuriken doubleshot chance from going less dex.. But do you guys think this would be viable?

My suggestion would be to stick with elf or HE for an epic-farming build - you really want the last two AA cores - and save this build for when you need a template for banging out RRs, since it should work fine for any race. But it's your free time, so you do what you want with it...

Edit: that and the imbue from the rune arm and added effects on them could be fun when using shurikens.

Equipping a Runearm uncenters you, which means you can't use monk stances or TTS; also you bleed off ki pretty quickly. So even if you go with an arty splash, I recommend equipping a ki weapon in your offhand instead. This thread hasn't been updated since before the Cannith Crafting overhaul, but AFAIK the info in it is still correct.

[Pyyro_del_Drago]

My suggestion would be to stick with elf or HE for an epic-farming build - you really want the last two AA cores - and save this build for when you need a template for banging out RRs, since it should work fine for any race. But it's your free time, so you do what you want with it...

Alright, fair enough, I can shelf it for later.

Equipping a Runearm uncenters you, which means you can't use monk stances or TTS; also you bleed off ki pretty quickly. So even if you go with an arty splash, I recommend equipping a ki weapon in your offhand instead. This thread hasn't been updated since before the Cannith Crafting overhaul, but AFAIK the info in it is still correct.

Rigghhtttt, I didn't even think/know of the runearm uncentering you. Last time I did a build similar to this with arti bows were still king, so I didn't even think of runearms with shurikens.

[Stoner81]

I ran a Monkcher life recently for the first time and it is quite probably the most amount of fun I have ever had in DDO, I googled the build and then tweaked it since I got asked about it. Basically it's a 12 Monk, 6 Ranger, 2 Paladin build on a Bladeforged, some AP in the racial tree for Reconstruct and Power of the Forge. Arcane Archer for Slayer Arrows etc, some in Ninja Spy for DEX to to-hit and damage since it was DEX based which made it far less stat dependent.

If you are interested in it for this thread then let me know and I can post it, I have the full build saved in the character planner at home.

Stoner81.

[flute136]

I ran a Monkcher life recently for the first time and it is quite probably the most amount of fun I have ever had in DDO, I googled the build and then tweaked it since I got asked about it. Basically it's a 12 Monk, 6 Ranger, 2 Paladin build on a Bladeforged, some AP in the racial tree for Reconstruct and Power of the Forge. Arcane Archer for Slayer Arrows etc, some in Ninja Spy for DEX to to-hit and damage since it was DEX based which made it far less stat dependent.

If you are interested in it for this thread then let me know and I can post it, I have the full build saved in the character planner at home.

Stoner81.

thata what i am but i havent played in 3years so i dont know how to tr to 1 again

[Stoner81]

thata what i am but i havent played in 3years so i dont know how to tr to 1 again

You need a Heart of Wood ---> http://ddowiki.com/page/Reincarnation

Stoner81.

[bree22]

Am I missing something? how are you generating KI for 10k if you are using a bow/shuriken? Don't you have to get Contemplation tier 3 for passive ki regen? that is 8ap pts. and isn't Master of Imbuement worth it? that's 41ap pts. 11ap pts for shadow veil, 15ap pts to get racial AA thats 75 pts right there. 5pts left over and deepwood sniper is 11ap pts.

So is:

Master Imbuement > Deepwood Sniper?

or

Master Imbuement < Deepwood Sniper?

Or there is another way around Ki regen other then meleeing to run away and range? Stopping to mediated seems silly and a long way to do a quest.

[GeoffWatson]

Am I missing something? how are you generating KI for 10k if you are using a bow/shuriken? Don't you have to get Contemplation tier 3 for passive ki regen? that is 8ap pts. and isn't Master of Imbuement worth it? that's 41ap pts. 11ap pts for shadow veil, 15ap pts to get racial AA thats 75 pts right there. 5pts left over and deepwood sniper is 11ap pts.

So is:

Master Imbuement > Deepwood Sniper?

or

Master Imbuement < Deepwood Sniper?

Or there is another way around Ki regen other then meleeing to run away and range? Stopping to mediated seems silly and a long way to do a quest.

Water Stance at Master gives Ki generation, as does Enlightenment, an Epic Destiny abiility.

[unbongwah]

Am I missing something? how are you generating KI for 10k if you are using a bow/shuriken?

Water stance, Ninja Stealthy, and (in epics) Enlightenment all provide passive ki regen.

Don't you have to get Contemplation tier 3 for passive ki regen?

Correct, but that's not the only option.

and isn't Master of Imbuement worth it?

The AA capstone (formerly Master of Imbuement) is now called Mystical Archer, at least in the builder.

Note that I haven't updated these builds since the monk pass, so they are somewhat dated at this point.

[Gargoyle69]

Note that I haven't updated these builds since the monk pass, so they are somewhat dated at this point.

So, does that you mean that you might? <grin>

I mean, with the U36 changes and all.....

[Warinx]

So, does that you mean that you might? <grin>

I mean, with the U36 changes and all.....

Isn't monkcher dead with update 36? AA not working for throwers.

[Wipey]

Isn't monkcher dead with update 36? AA not working for throwers.

Monkcher has always been solid without shurikens. I'd never trade high wis with uber paralyze for shurikens and dex on mine.

[Warinx]

Monkcher has always been solid without shurikens. I'd never trade high wis with uber paralyze for shurikens and dex on mine.

Got a link to a non thrower build that I can take a look at?

[Thrudh]

Isn't monkcher dead with update 36? AA not working for throwers.

It will make throwing in heroics harder. But it won't affect epics nearly as much. Furyshot with multiple shurikens should still be very effective.

I always liked Deepwood Sniper over AA anyway, and this change frees up a bunch of APs for my 11/6/3 Ranger/Fighter/Monk.

[Pavelov]

I think loss of imbues is pretty significant. Even dumping all points into dex, it was still possible to have high enough wis with the massive number of doubleshots to paralyze hordes of enemies (like in Reaver slavers). But I think losing both paralyze and the elemental imbue is a huge damage to the build, when the damage on shurikens are so low, the scaling elemental damage could virtually double your damage or more on your normal throws and with how many times you hit you could put out a steady amount of damage between sniper shots and TTS and MS cooldowns. Soloing is going to be much more difficult, especially at low levels when you lose a lot of damage to damage resistant mobs. Often your star will do no damage in Reaper.

[FengXian]

Slight necro here, I'm about to TR my monkcher so I wanted to know what do you guys think about:

12 fighter 6 monk 2 ranger (OR 2 FvS for DM).

Wis based, the idea is to make us of Power Surge; would also allow to always stay in Mountain Stance since it would refill ki easily anyway. The drawback ofc is losing DWS and some FE/Ram's might damage, even compared to 6 ranger builds. But +8 to all attributes looks really nice on a character that makes use of most of them, and works well with DM if I was to splash those FvS levels.

Could be the push you need to have a reliable dc for PK from terror arrows too, and 100% paralizing in most scenarios. I'm aware overall some builds might be more optimal but as long as this has some niche advantages and EE/LE viability it's fine.

[unbongwah]

12 fighter 6 monk 2 ranger (OR 2 FvS for DM).

If you're going WIS- or DEX-based, it doesn't make sense to take Div Might, since it's a STR bonus. Harper's Know the Angles makes more sense in that case.

would also allow to always stay in Mountain Stance since it would refill ki easily anyway.

Water stance (Master or GM) grants passive ki regen; that plus Contemplation should be sufficient for heroics. It certainly makes more sense not to rely on being hit to regen ki from Earth stance, IMO.

But +8 to all attributes looks really nice on a character that makes use of most of them, and works well with DM if I was to splash those FvS levels.

Bear in mind Ten Thousand Stars' Doubleshot bonus is (monk level * 5). Since you're using TTS half the time, then effectively every monk lvl you give up means giving up 2.5% Doubleshot on avg. Which is why so many monkcher builds go for at least 12 monk lvls. So be sure Power Surge et al is really worth the DPS sacrifice.