Building a Better Monkcher

**unbongwah** · 11-30-2015, 01:50 PM

For some loosely defined notion of "better," at any rate.

Disclaimer: Turbine has stated they're not done with overhauling the Arcane Archer PrE, so who knows how we'll have to overhaul our monkchers (again) when they do. But DDO has never been a game for people who like static builds, so...

For this thread's purposes, a "monkcher" is any archer build with at least 6 monk levels to take the Ten Thousand Stars (TTS) feat; implicitly, any monkcher will also have Manyshot (MS) and the usual array of ranged feats. Most monkchers are elf or half-elf to access the racial AA PrE, which has become more attractive due to both buffs in the tree (particularly the last two cores) and changes to how MS and TTS work.

Manyshot: For the next 20 seconds, add 120 to your Doubleshot and your Base Attack Bonus * 4 to Ranged Power.
Ten Thousand Stars: Activate this ability to enter a trance for 30 seconds (or until you become uncentered). Add your Wisdom ability score to your Ranged Power and add your monk level * 5 to your Doubleshot.

So the good news: Turbine eliminated the Doubleshot penalties from both feats, which finally makes Doubleshot bonuses useful to monkchers. The bad news: Turbine eliminated the Doubleshot penalties from both feats, which means if you don't have access to any Doubleshot bonuses, your ranged DPS takes a hit relative to other archers. Also: the changes to TTS means that the more monk levels you have, the more Doubleshot you gain, up to +100 from pure monk; this puts the heavily MCed monkchers who only took monk 6 at a disadvantage.

A brief note about ki regen: unfortunately, ranged attacks don't generate ki like melee does. So presuming you want a full-time ranged toon, you need to invest in one or more passive ki regen options, including: Ninja's Stealthy enhancement (regen ki while stealthed); Henshin (or Kensei) Contemplation; use Ocean stance (Master or GM); Grandmaster of Flowers' Enlightenment.

EDIT: (1/14/18) finally posting some new builds for U37

Zen Monkcher (monk 20)

This build is intended to be first-life / newbie-friendly: no tomes required, no P2P options beyond monk itself - in particular, no Harper or Vistani. [For an example of a shurimonk build which exploits VKF's Weapon Versatility, see this thread.] In heroics, it is primarily a shuriken build which only uses bows for Manyshot; hence why it goes for Ninja capstone instead of AA. In epics you can choose between focusing on sustained DPS via LD's Blitz; or burst-DPS-focused in FotW (Adrenaline FTW) which will also favor focusing on AA tree.

Code:

Zen Monkcher (U37)
Monk 20
Lawful Neutral Elf


Stats
               28pt     32pt     34pt     36pt     Level Up
               ----     ----     ----     ----     --------
Strength         8        8        8        8       4: DEX
Dexterity       20       20       20       20       8: DEX
Constitution    12       14       14       14      12: DEX
Intelligence     8        8        8        8      16: DEX
Wisdom          14       14       15       16      20: DEX
Charisma         8        8        8        8      24: DEX
                                                   28: DEX

Skills
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Concent   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Spellcr   1  1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1  11
UMD       2     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     11
Balance   1                                                            1
Tumble    1                                                            1
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         12  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3


Feats

 1        : Point Blank Shot
 1 Monk   : Shuriken Expertise
 2 Monk   : Precision
 3        : Rapid Shot
 6        : Precise Shot
 6 Monk   : Ten Thousand Stars
 8 Swap   : Zen Archery replaces Precision
 9        : Manyshot
12        : Improved Critical: Ranged
15        : Improved Precise Shot
18        : Precision OR Improved Critical: Thrown
21 Epic   : Combat Archery
24 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Holy Strike OR Pierce Damage Reduction: Silver OR Epic Spell Power: Acid
27 Epic   : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Embodiment of Law OR Deific Warding
30 Epic   : Improved Martial Arts
30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane OR Plane of Earth

 3 Monk   : Path of Inevitable Dominion

Feat-wise it's pretty much what one would expect. For the first several levels (1-8), uses shuriken exclusively; hence why I don't even take Zen Archery until I swap it in at lvl 8 (or more precisely, just before you level to 9). Then at lvl 9 you can add Manyshot+bows to your combat rotation; at that stage, I think it's a toss-up whether shuriken or bows are better for Ten Thousand Stars (TTS), so feel free to experiment to see which you find more effective.

Legendary feat: either Astral Plane for +8% Doubleshot +4% Dodge or Plane of Earth for +2d20 acid dmg +20 PRR.

Okay so let's look at heroic Enhancements:

Code:

Enhancements (80 AP)

Ninja Spy (41 AP)
Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training, Shadow Veil, Poisoned Darts, Diversion, Ninja Master
Ninjutsu: Poison Exploit, Stealthy III, Sneak Attack Training
Ninjutsu: Poisoned Soul, Agility I, Sneak Attack Training, Melee/Ranged Power Boost III
Ninjutsu: Impending Doom, Sneak Attack Training, Sting of the Ninja, Dexterity
Ninjutsu: Wave of Despair, Sneak Attack Training, No Mercy III, Dexterity
Deadly Striker, Crippling Strike

Elf (14 AP)
Elven Accuracy, Elven Dexterity, Elven Accuracy II, Elven Dexterity II
Aerenal Weapon Training
Arcanum I
Arcane Archer

Elf-Arcane Archer (14 AP)
Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows
Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild III, Corrosive Arrows
Elemental Damage
Soul Magic, Elemental Damage

Henshin Mystic (11 AP)
Riddle of Fire, Ki Bolt, Sounding Staff
Negotiator III, Way of the: Patient Tortoise
Contemplation III

Leveling Guide
Spy0 Basic Ninja Training; Spy1 Sneak Attack Training; Spy1 Stealthy I
Hen0 Riddle of Fire; Hen1 Way of the: Patient Tortoise; (Bank 1 AP)
Spy1 Ninjutsu: Poison Exploit; Spy0 Advanced Ninja Training; Spy2 Melee/Ranged Power Boost I, II, III
Spy2 Ninjutsu: Poisoned Soul; Spy3 Sting of the Ninja; Hen1 Negotiator I
Hen1 Negotiator II; Hen2 Contemplation I, II, III
Spy0 Shadow Veil; Hen1 Negotiator III; Hen0 Ki Bolt; Hen0 Sounding Staff
Spy1 Stealthy II, III; Spy2 Sneak Attack Training
Spy3 Sneak Attack Training; Spy3 Dexterity
Spy4 Sneak Attack Training; Spy4 Dexterity
Spy3 Ninjutsu: Impending Doom; Spy4 Ninjutsu: Wave of Despair; Spy4 No Mercy I
Elf0 Elven Accuracy; Elf0 Elven Dexterity; (Bank 1 AP)
Spy0 Poisoned Darts; Spy5 Deadly Striker; Spy5 Crippling Strike
Elf0 Elven Accuracy II; Elf0 Elven Dexterity II; Spy2 Agility I
Elf1 Aerenal Weapon Training; Elf2 Arcanum I
Elf3 Arcane Archer
eAA0 Arcane Archer; eAA1 Conjure Arrows; eAA1 Energy of the Wild I
eAA1 Corrosive Arrows; eAA2 Elemental Damage
Spy0 Diversion; eAA0 Morphic Arrows; eAA1 Energy of the Wild II, III
eAA3 Elemental Damage; eAA3 Soul Magic
Spy4 No Mercy II, III; Spy0 Ninja Master

Like I said, focuses primarily on Ninja: namely tier-5s (+1 crit range, Crippling Strike) and capstone (+1 crit multiplier). Henshin is for Contemplation and free Quick Draw. Elf+AA trees for basic imbues: +5d6 acid, Soul Magic, Morphic Arrows for DR bypass and +1 crit range from Pulverizer.

Which leads us to the intended ED configuration:

Code:

Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought
Extra Action Boost III, Attack Boost III, Constitution
Constitution
Critical Damage III, Haste Boost III
(none)
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Pulverizer

Twists of Fate (35 fate points)
Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
Whirling Wrists (Tier 3 Shiradi)
Pin (Tier 2 Shiradi)
Dance of Flowers (Tier 1 Flowers)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal) OR Enlightenment (Tier 1 Flowers)

Typical mix of LD and ranged DPS Twists. The first must-have Twist is Whirling Wrists, which costs 6 Fate pts; that requires 18 ED levels. Since you have to max out two Primal EDs to take Doubleshot ED feat, you'll earn a lot of Fate pts there anyway. The rest of these Twists form your wishlist; add what you can afford as you work on your EDs.

Alternate configuration: burst-DPS mode in FotW focused on AA tree.

Code:

Enhancements (80 AP)

Elf-Arcane Archer (42 AP)
Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows, Shadow Arrows, Mystical Archer
Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild III, Corrosive Arrows
Force Arrows I, Elemental Damage
Terror Arrows, Soul Magic, Elemental Damage, Dexterity
Banishing Arrows, Paralyzing Arrows, Smiting Arrows, Elemental Damage, Dexterity
Moonbow, Arrow of Slaying, Final Strike, Elemental Damage, Runebow

Elf (14 AP)
Elven Accuracy, Elven Dexterity, Elven Accuracy II, Elven Dexterity II
Aerenal Weapon Training
Arcanum I
Arcane Archer

Ninja Spy (13 AP)
Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training, Shadow Veil
Ninjutsu: Impending Doom, Stealthy III
Ninjutsu: Poison Exploit, Melee/Ranged Power Boost III
Sting of the Ninja

Henshin Mystic (11 AP)
Riddle of Fire, Ki Bolt, Sounding Staff
Negotiator III, Way of the: Patient Tortoise
Contemplation III


Destiny (24 AP)

Fury of the Wild
Primal Scream III, Fast Healing III, Constitution
Acute Instincts III, Constitution
(none)
Gird Against Demons II, Sense Weakness III
Fury Eternal
Unbridled Fury

Twists of Fate (31 fate points)
Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
Whirling Wrists (Tier 3 Shiradi)
Pin (Tier 2 Shiradi)
Dance of Flowers (Tier 1 Flowers)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal) OR Enlightenment (Tier 1 Flowers)

In FotW, you really want Arrow of Slaying to use with Adrenaline during Manyshot or TTS; the added Doubleshot from the last two AA cores is also a perk while still getting +1 crit multiplier with bows from Shadow Arrows. The downside is your shuriken DPS is lower without Ninja bonuses. Also if you really want to optimize burst DPS, a more heavily MCed build with Sniper Shot is desirable. See jakeelala's thread for builds.

But for a monkcher that's really focused on FotW's burst DPS, let's move onto the next build...

FotW Monkcher (monk 12 / rgr 6)

This build adds ranger 6 for all the usual reasons: namely free ranged feats (Rapid Shot / Precise Shot / Manyshot) and DWS enhancements, the most important being Sniper Shot. It also has access to Spell Focus feat (unlike pure monk), so it can add the Enchantment Specialist twist for higher Paralyzing Arrow DCs. Not a hard requirement, but it's a good idea unless you plan never to use Paralyzing.

So what to do with the last two levels? This build takes two levels of fighter for the extra feats and Kensei enhancements. But you don't necessarily need those two feats (esp. if you don't have Completionist), so two more monk lvls is an option just for the extra Doubleshot during TTS.

Code:

FotW Monkcher
12/6/2 Monk/Ranger/Fighter
Lawful Neutral Elf

Level Order

1. Ranger 6. Ranger 11. Monk 16. Monk
2. Ranger 7. Monk 12. Monk 17. Monk
3. Ranger 8. Monk 13. Monk 18. Monk
4. Ranger 9. Monk 14. Monk 19. Fighter
5. Ranger 10. Monk 15. Monk 20. Fighter

Stats
36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 8 +4 4: DEX
Dexterity 20 +4 8: DEX
Constitution 14 +4 12: DEX
Intelligence 8 +4 16: DEX
Wisdom 16 +4 20: DEX
Charisma 8 +4 24: DEX
28: DEX

Feats

1 : Point Blank Shot
3 : Precision
6 : Quick Draw
7 Monk : Zen Archery
8 Monk : Shuriken Expertise
9 : Improved Critical: Ranged
12 : Spell Focus: Enchantment
12 Monk : Ten Thousand Stars
15 : Improved Precise Shot
18 : Grandmaster of Forms
19 Fighter: Improved Critical: Thrown
20 Swap : Completionist replaces Precision
20 Fighter: Precision
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Holy Strike OR Pierce Damage Reduction: Silver OR Epic Spell Power: Acid
27 Epic : Blinding Speed OR Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Embodiment of Law OR Deific Warding
30 Epic : Improved Martial Arts
30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane OR Plane of Earth OR Feywild

9 Monk : Path of Inevitable Dominion

1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
5 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider

Enhancements (80+2 AP)

Elf-Arcane Archer (42 AP)
Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows, Shadow Arrows, Mystical Archer
Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild III, Corrosive Arrows
Force Arrows I, Elemental Damage
Terror Arrows, Soul Magic, Elemental Damage, Dexterity
Banishing Arrows, Paralyzing Arrows, Smiting Arrows, Elemental Damage, Dexterity
Moonbow, Arrow of Slaying, Final Strike, Elemental Damage, Runebow

Elf (14 AP)
Elven Accuracy, Elven Dexterity
Aerenal Weapon Training
Enchantment Lore III, Arcanum I
Arcane Archer

Deepwood Stalker (11 AP)
Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot
Favored Defense I, Stealthy III
Faster Sneaking I, Melee/Range Power Boost III

Kensei (9 AP)
Kensei Focus: Archery
Extra Action Boost I, Haste Boost III
Ascetic Training: Contemplation III

Ninja Spy (6 AP)
Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training
Ninjutsu: Poison Exploit, Stealthy III

Destiny (24 AP)

Fury of the Wild
Primal Scream III, Fast Healing III, Constitution
Acute Instincts III, Constitution
(none)
Gird Against Demons II, Sense Weakness III
Fury Eternal
Unbridled Fury

Twists of Fate (36 fate points)
Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
Whirling Wrists (Tier 3 Shiradi)
Pin (Tier 2 Shiradi)
School Specialist: Enchantment (Tier 2 Magister)
Dance of Flowers OR Enlightenment (Tier 1 Flowers)

In order to achieve the AP spread I wanted, I needed two extra racial APs. If you don't have them, then you can shave 1 AP off elf AA tree by taking Improved Elemental Arrows instead of the final tier of Elemental Damage; and another AP from Kensei by dropping Haste Boost and taking another rank of extra action boost instead. Of course, if you have extra racial APs, you can spend them where you like.

Half-elf with rogue dilettante would also work well: you'd gain +2d6 sneak attack, a rank of heal amp, and human Ranged Power Boost; but lose the +1 DCs from Enchantment Lore. Probably an upgrade, though.

I'm not gonna bother with a heroic Enhancement leveling order because that's a serious PITA as you'll be resetting APs frequently. Note that you will NOT be using the racial AA tree until epics, since you can't take the last two AA cores until lvls 22/25. So some brief guidelines:

For the first several levels (1-8), you play like a typical AA ranger. So follow the leveling guide in my elf ranger thread or Strimtom's build.
Level 9 is your first major respec, as that's when you start using shuriken during MS's downtime. So make sure you put at least 6 APs into Ninja for Advanced Ninja Training.
By the time you get to lvl 12 (rgr 6 / monk 6), make sure you put 8 APs into Henshin for Contemplation; you'll need the passive ki regen to power TTS. You can also take Shadow Veil at this point if you want; though you can see you'll eventually have to drop it in epics unless you have a ton of extra racial APs.
After you take your fighter levels, reset Henshin and move those APs into Kensei too.
By lvl 22, your AP spread will be 41 AA / 14 elf / 11 DWS / 9 Kensei / 6 Ninja; you can put that final AP into Shintao for extra heal amp until you need it for the AA capstone.

**unbongwah** · 11-30-2015, 01:51 PM

EDIT: old builds archived here

The Mostly Monkcher

Race: elf or half-elf for racial AA PrE
Class split: monk 18 for +90% Doubleshot from TTS and monk feats, inc. free Grandmaster of Forms. Rgr 1 splash for Bow STR and 1st DWS core (+5m PBS range, +1d6 sneak atk). Cleric splash for Div Might and access to Spell Focus feat(s) (also Emp Heal if you want Rejuv Cocoon).
Stats: pretty much everything is important. WIS-based for higher Ranged Power from TTS and higher DCs to AA imbues. STR+CHA for dmg (hence Bow STR + Div Might). DEX 21 for Combat Archery. And CON for not dying, ofc. Higher INT would mean more skill pts and higher Spellcraft, but I had to dump something, so...
Feats: the usual ranged feats plus Spell Focus Enchantment to open the +3 DC Twist from Magister.

Code:

Mostly Monkcher
18/1/1 Monk/Cleric/Ranger
Lawful Good Half-Elf


Level Order

1. Ranger          6. Monk           11. Monk           16. Monk
2. Cleric          7. Monk           12. Monk           17. Monk
3. Monk            8. Monk           13. Monk           18. Monk
4. Monk            9. Monk           14. Monk           19. Monk
5. Monk           10. Monk           15. Monk           20. Monk


Stats
               36pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     --------
Strength        14       +6       4: WIS
Dexterity       15       +6       8: WIS
Constitution    14       +6      12: WIS
Intelligence     8       +6      16: WIS
Wisdom          16       +6      20: WIS
Charisma        14       +6      24: WIS
                                 28: WIS

Skills
          R  C  M  M  M  M  M  M  M  M  M  M  M  M  M  M  M  M  M  M
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Concent   4        3  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Spellcr   2  1           1  ½  1½ ½  1½ ½  1½ ½  1½ 1  2  1  2  1  2  21
UMD       2     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     11
Heal      4                                                            4
Spot      4                                                            4
Tumble          1                                                      1
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         20  1  3  3  3  3  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  5  5  5  5  5  5


Feats

 1        : Point Blank Shot
 1 HalfElf: Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
 1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
 2 Deity  : Follower of: Silver Flame
 3        : Rapid Shot
 3 Monk   : Zen Archery
 4 Monk   : Precision
 5 Monk   : Path of Harmonious Balance
 6        : Precise Shot
 8 Monk   : Ten Thousand Stars
 9        : Manyshot
12        : Improved Critical: Ranged
15        : Spell Focus: Enchantment
18        : Improved Precise Shot
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Fire (or Holy Strike or Guardian Angel)
27 Epic   : Past Life: Wizard (or Bard or Completionist or Blinding Speed)
28 Destiny: Doubleshot


Enhancements (80 AP)

Half-Elf (14 AP)

Versatile Nature, Human Wisdom, Human Damage Boost
Improved Dilettante: Rogue
Improved Recovery, Improved Dilettante: Rogue
Arcane Archer

Elf-Arcane Archer (41 AP)

Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows, Shadow Arrows, Mystical Archer
Conjure Arrows, Flaming Arrows
Force Arrows III, Inferno Shot III, Elemental Damage
Shattermantle Shot I, Terror Arrows, Soul Magic, Elemental Damage
Banishing Arrows, Paralyzing Arrows, Smiting Arrows, Elemental Damage
Moonbow, Arrow of Slaying, Elemental Damage, Runebow

Deepwood Stalker (1 AP)

Far Shot

Ninja Spy (13 AP)

Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training, Shadow Veil
Stealthy III, Sneak Attack Training, Acrobatic I
Sneak Attack Training
Sneak Attack Training

Henshin Mystic (3 AP)

Riddle of Fire
Way of the: Patient Tortoise

Warpriest (4 AP)

Smite Foe
Divine Might III

Divine Disciple (4 AP)

Emissary: Light
Spellpower: Universal III


Destiny (24 AP)

Divine Crusader

Bane of Undeath, Interrogation, Purge the Wicked
Consecration III, Flames of Purity I
Sacred Ground, Empyrean Magic, Blessed Blades
No Regret, Crusade
Castigation, Celestial Champion
Celestial Bombardment III

Twists of Fate (31 fate points)

Haste Boost (Tier 3 Dreadnought)
Otto's Whistler (Tier 3 Shiradi)
Pin (Tier 2 Shiradi)
School Specialist: Enchantment (Tier 2 Magister)

I specced for fire imbues because they benefit from the +10 Fire Spellpower I pick up from Warpriest + Henshin; likewise I combined with Divine Crusader for more fire oomph. Downside is fire isn't ideal for devils, so I maxed out Force Arrows as well; alternatively, respec for a different element. I went cleric instead of FvS for +9 Universal Spellpower from Divine Disciple; downside is I don't have enough APs to also take both Shadow Veil and Contemplation, so I ditched the latter. This configuration also provides +6d6 sneak atks: 3d6 Ninja, 2d6 HE rog dilly, 1d6 DWS.

TBH, I don't know how much WIS you need to hit viable Paralyzing Arrow DCs. With a bit of effort, you could squeeze in up to +11 WIS (max base WIS 18, 2 from AA, 1 from Ninja, 6 from Div Crusader ED); but you have to sacrifice a significant chunk of dmg to do so. Gear-wise, Band Immaterial looks like your best option for boosting your Enchant DCs.

The ShuriShot

Just a repost of the build I originally put in this thread.

Depending on how you look at it, this is either a shuriken build with Manyshot or a monkcher with Shuriken Expertise. The idea was to stay as close to pure monk as possible to max out 10K Stars' Doubleshot; but I found I really wanted rgr 2 splash for free Rapid Shot + Imp Weap Finesse to get DEX to bow dmg. [Elf w/Grace would also work, but pure monk is a bit feat-starved.] I also wanted to squeeze in Harper for Know the Angles + extra Ranged Power, but that would mean ditching Henshin and I'm not sure if I can afford to give up Contemplation.

Main downside vs a "real" (halfling) shuriken build is I don't get +1 crit range from Master Thrower; also a pure shuriken build would probably look into more Doubleshot / Ranged Power from DWS, Harper, and/or Mechanic.

Code:

ShuriShot
18/2 Monk/Ranger
Lawful Neutral Half-Elf


Level Order

1. Ranger          6. Monk           11. Monk           16. Monk
2. Monk            7. Monk           12. Monk           17. Monk
3. Monk            8. Ranger         13. Monk           18. Monk
4. Monk            9. Monk           14. Monk           19. Monk
5. Monk           10. Monk           15. Monk           20. Monk


Stats
               36pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     --------
Strength         8       +4       4: DEX
Dexterity       18       +4       8: DEX
Constitution    16       +4      12: DEX
Intelligence     8       +4      16: DEX
Wisdom          16       +4      20: DEX
Charisma         8       +4      24: DEX
                                 28: DEX

Skills
          R  M  M  M  M  M  M  R  M  M  M  M  M  M  M  M  M  M  M  M
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Concent   4  1  1  1  1  1  1     1  1  1  2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Spot      4                                   1  1  2  2     2     2  14
Search    4                    6                          1     1     12
Spellcr   1        1     1  ½     ½  1½ ½  1     1     1     1     1  11
UMD       2     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     11
Jump      2                                                            2
Balance      1                                                         1
Tumble       1                                                         1
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         20  3  3  3  3  3  4  6  4  4  4  4  4  4  5  5  5  5  5  5


Feats

 1        : Point Blank Shot
 1 HalfElf: Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
 1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
 2 Monk   : Shuriken Expertise
 3        : Quick Draw
 3 Monk   : Zen Archery
 4 Monk   : Path of Harmonious Balance
 6        : Precise Shot
 7 Monk   : Ten Thousand Stars
 9        : Manyshot
12        : Improved Critical: Ranged
15        : Improved Precise Shot
18        : Precision
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Electricity
27 Epic   : Improved Critical: Thrown
28 Destiny: Doubleshot


Enhancements (80 AP)

Half-Elf (14 AP)

Versatile Nature, Elven Dexterity, Human Damage Boost, Elven Dexterity
Improved Dilettante: Rogue
Improved Dilettante: Rogue
Arcane Archer

Elf-Arcane Archer (41 AP)

Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows, Shadow Arrows, Mystical Archer
Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild III, Shock Arrows
Force Arrows III, Elemental Damage
Terror Arrows, Soul Magic, Elemental Damage, Dexterity
Banishing Arrows, Paralyzing Arrows, Smiting Arrows, Elemental Damage
Moonbow, Arrow of Slaying, Improved Elemental Arrows, Runebow

Ninja Spy (11 AP)

Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training, Shadow Veil
Stealthy III, Sneak Attack Training
Sneak Attack Training, Agility I

Henshin Mystic (8 AP)

Riddle of Fire
Static Charge, Way of the: Patient Tortoise
Contemplation III

Deepwood Stalker (6 AP)

Far Shot
Favored Defense I, Stealthy III
Improved Weapon Finesse

**unbongwah** · 11-30-2015, 01:52 PM

EDIT (06/23/16): Okay, so let's look at an updated version of one of my personal builds which is influenced by both Sestra's original and jakeelala's thread. We'll go over the rationale behind my build decisions as we go.

Code:

Shadow Monkcher
12/6/2 Monk/Ranger/Fighter
Lawful Neutral Elf


Level Order

1. Ranger          6. Ranger         11. Monk           16. Monk
2. Monk            7. Ranger         12. Monk           17. Monk
3. Monk            8. Ranger         13. Monk           18. Monk
4. Monk            9. Ranger         14. Monk           19. Fighter
5. Ranger         10. Monk           15. Monk           20. Fighter


Stats
               32pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     --------
Strength         8                4: DEX
Dexterity       20                8: DEX
Constitution    12               12: DEX
Intelligence     8       +2      16: DEX
Wisdom          16               20: DEX
Charisma         8               24: DEX
                                 28: DEX

Skills
          R  M  M  M  R  R  R  R  R  M  M  M  M  M  M  M  M  M  F  F
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Concent   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Hide      4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1        21
Move Si   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1        21
Spellcr   2           1  1  1     1  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½           10
Spot      4                 1  3  1                          1        10
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         20  3  3  3  5  5  6  6  6  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  2  2

Max DEX for to-hit, dmg, and extra shuriken procs; high WIS for higher DCs on Paralyzing Arrows and more Ranged Power from Ten Thousand Stars (TTS); rest into CON. As you'll see, I skip Harper (Know the Angles); this saves APs which lets me focus on other PrEs and lets me dump-stat INT. The downside is figuring out which skills to prioritize: I went with Concentration (boosts ki which powers TTS), stealth, and Spellcraft (boosts Spellpower which affects AA elemental imbues), with leftover pts into Spot.

Code:

Feats

 1        : Point Blank Shot
 1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
 2 Monk   : Zen Archery
 3        : Quick Draw
 3 Monk   : Shuriken Expertise
 4 Monk   : Path of Harmonious Balance
 6        : Least Dragonmark: Shadow
 8 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
 9        : Improved Critical: Ranged
12        : Extend Spell
12 Monk   : Ten Thousand Stars
15        : Improved Precise Shot
18        : Grandmaster of Forms
19 Fighter: Precision
20 Fighter: Improved Critical: Thrown
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Holy Strike OR Pierce Damage Reduction: Cold Iron
27 Epic   : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Embodiment of Law
30 Epic   : Epic Damage Reduction
30 Swap   : Spell Focus: Enchantment replaces Extend Spell
30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane OR Ethereal Plane

Fairly typical mix of ranged feats for a bow+shuriken hybrid monk, but I use the extra feats from ftr to enable me to add Shadow DM + Extend spell; the latter is traded in epics for Spell Focus:Enchantment. As you'll see later, this opens the Magister DC Twist to boost Enchantment DCs further. Based on the White Feather thread, it looks like base WIS 16 is sufficient to hit ~75% success rate with Paralyzing Arrows in epics, allowing you to put level-ups into DEX for more dmg; it also means you won't need a DEX tome to hit 21 for Combat Archery. Remember that Paralyzing will apply to every arrow, so it isn't necessary to hit a no-fail DC, IMHO.

Next up are Enhancements, which I'll divide into two sections: one configuration which you use for heroics; and one which you use for lvls 25+, when you're able to take the racial AA capstone.

Heroic leveling guide:

Code:

Enhancements (80 AP)

Deepwood Stalker (40 AP)

Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot

Favored Defense I, Stealthy III
Improved Weapon Finesse, Melee/Range Power Boost III
Thrill of the Hunt III, Favored Hunter III, Aimed Shot, Dexterity
Killer III, Merciful Shot, Leg Shot, Dexterity
Extra Favored Enemy: Giant, Heavy Draw, Strikes Like Lightning, Head Shot, Improved Archer's Focus

Arcane Archer (17 AP)

Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows

Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild III, Shock Arrows
Elemental Damage
Terror Arrows, Soul Magic, Elemental Damage

Elf (12 AP)

Elven Accuracy, Elven Dexterity

Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III, Aerenal Weapon Training
Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
Greater Dragonmark of Shadow

Ninja Spy (11 AP)

Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training, Shadow Veil

Stealthy III, Sneak Attack Training, Acrobatic I
Sneak Attack Training

Leveling Guide

DS0 Far Shot; DS1 Stealthy I, II, III
Spy0 Basic Ninja Training; Spy1 Sneak Attack Training; Spy1 Acrobatic I
Spy1 Stealthy I; Elf0 Elven Accuracy; Elf1 Aerenal Weapon Training
Spy0 Advanced Ninja Training; AA0 Arcane Archer; AA1 Conjure Arrows
DS1 Favored Defense I; DS2 Improved Weapon Finesse; Elf0 Elven Dexterity
Elf1 Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus I, II, III
Elf2 Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow; Elf3 Greater Dragonmark of Shadow; DS0 Sneak Attack
DS2 Melee/Range Power Boost I, II, III; DS3 Thrill of the Hunt I
DS0 Sniper Shot; DS3 Thrill of the Hunt II, III
DS3 Aimed Shot; DS3 Dexterity; DS3 Favored Hunter I
DS3 Favored Hunter II; DS4 Killer I, II, III
Reset Elf

Ninja Spy: Shadow Veil

Stealthy III
Sneak Attack Training

Deepwood Stalker

(none)
(none)
Favored Hunter III
Merciful Shot, Leg Shot, Dexterity
Strikes Like Lightning, Improved Archer's Focus
DS5 Heavy Draw; DS5 Head Shot
DS5 Extra Favored Enemy: Giant; AA1 Shock Arrows
AA0 Morphic Arrows; AA2 Elemental Damage; Elf0 Elven Accuracy
Elf1 Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus I, II, III
Elf1 Aerenal Weapon Training; Elf2 Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
Elf0 Elven Dexterity; Elf3 Greater Dragonmark of Shadow; AA1 Energy of the Wild I
AA1 Energy of the Wild II, III; AA3 Soul Magic; AA0 Metalline Arrows
AA3 Terror Arrows; AA3 Elemental Damage

I personally feel like T5 DWS is better for heroics than T5 AA; but the downside to this approach is you won't get Paralyzing Arrows until epics (see below). So if that's a priority, swap AA / DWS point spreads around.

Epic / endgame configuration:

Code:

Enhancements (80 AP)

Elf-Arcane Archer (42 AP)

Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows, Shadow Arrows, Mystical Archer
Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild III, Shock Arrows
Force Arrows III, Elemental Damage
Terror Arrows, Soul Magic, Elemental Damage
Banishing Arrows, Paralyzing Arrows, Smiting Arrows, Elemental Damage
Moonbow, Arrow of Slaying, Final Strike, Elemental Damage, Runebow

Elf (16 AP)

Elven Accuracy, Elven Dexterity
Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III
Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow, Arcanum I
Greater Dragonmark of Shadow, Arcane Archer

Deepwood Stalker (11 AP)

Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot
Favored Defense I, Stealthy III
Improved Weapon Finesse, Melee/Range Power Boost III

Ninja Spy (11 AP)

Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training, Shadow Veil
Stealthy III, Sneak Attack Training, Acrobatic I
Sneak Attack Training

Finally, your ED: like jakeelala's builds, this focuses on burst DPS via FotW; Adrenaline + Arrow of Slaying or Sniper Shot is still quite effective, particularly while TTS or Manyshot is active. The listed Twists are a long-term goal; they can be added gradually as you level your EDs and gain more Fate pts.

Code:

Destiny (24 AP)

Fury of the Wild

Primal Scream III, Boulder Toss III, Fast Healing III
Acute Instincts III, Damage Reduction III
(none)
Gird Against Demons I, Sense Weakness III
Fury Eternal
Unbridled Fury

Twists of Fate (27 fate points)

Whirling Wrists (Tier 3 Shiradi)
School Specialist: Enchantment (Tier 2 Magister)
Pin (Tier 2 Shiradi)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
Enlightenment (Tier 1 Flowers)

**Enoach** · 11-30-2015, 02:24 PM

Just curious about this part...

1 level Ranger for Bow Strength + 1st DWS core (+5m PBS range, +1d6 sneak atk).

Wouldn't going Wis/Dex based be a good option using Elf Grace (Aerenal Grace) to use Dexterity - Mind you there are a lot more ways to boost strength, but the Dexterity would also open up for Dodge and Reflex saves

Also even simply going for the Elf AA means you need to spend 14 AP minimum in the Elf tree, spending 7 of those 14 in the Elf Core can grant you +10 Meters Point Blank, +2 Dexterity and +6% To hit - These are points you need to spend anyway. Is the DWS +5 meters to bring the total to potentially 15 meters really needed?

Instead of 1 Ranger, go 1 rogue - opens up 1d6 sneak attack and possible options for traps/locks. Mechanic 1st Core adds 5 meters to both PBS and Sneak Attack Range

Instead of Cleric for Divine might 1 level of wizard - Access to Enchantment Focus Feat as a free feat (helps with Paralyzing Arrows). Archmage specialization Hypnotism for 1 SP - used to get a group debuff of -3 will save - or +3 to your Paralyzing Arrow DCs. Hypnotism for 1 SP cost is easily negated by the AA Temp SP procs.

I realize going Rogue/Wizard does decrease your strength contribution and may need to use Grace to compensate for the loss of Bow Strength, but the ability to strengthen Paralyzing arrow and increase sneak attack range, added defense/saves may help compensate.

**unbongwah** · 11-30-2015, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Enoach

Wouldn't going Wis/Dex based be a good option using Elf Grace (Aerenal Grace) to use Dexterity - Mind you there are a lot more ways to boost strength, but the Dexterity would also open up for Dodge and Reflex saves

DEX has nothing to do with your Dodge bonus, apart from opening up the Dodge feat chain. And while higher Reflex saves would be nice, I do have Imp Evasion, so it's less important.

Is DEX-based an option? Sure. Is it better? That depends on what you define as "better." STR+Div Might will definitely hit higher dmg mod than just DEX. You could in theory go DEX+INT or just INT-based dmg with Harper, but that gets into another issue with this build: AP shortage. You need a minimum of 14 APs racial to open the AA tree and 41 APs AA for capstone, leaving you with 25 APs to spread as you see fit. My approach gets you +10 Fire Spell Power, +9 Universal Spell Power, Div Might, +4d6 SAs, +5m PBS range, Shadow Veil, extra HPs & Concentration from Patient Tortoise. Unfortunately, I ditched Contemplation, counting on ninja stealth and Ocean stance for ki regen when I need it.

What's your proposed alternative?

Instead of 1 Ranger, go 1 rogue - opens up 1d6 sneak attack and possible options for traps/locks. Mechanic 1st Core adds 5 meters to both PBS and Sneak Attack Range

True, it becomes a wash between DWS and Mechanic if you're not going STR-based. But splashing rog instead of rgr messes up feat progression, because you lose 1 BAB. And as you can see, I dumped INT so I wouldn't have skill pts to spare for traps anyway. But again, feel free to come up with an alternative approach.

Archmage specialization Hypnotism for 1 SP - used to get a group debuff of -3 will save - or +3 to your Paralyzing Arrow DCs. Hypnotism for 1 SP cost is easily negated by the AA Temp SP procs.

Interesting idea, although in practice I can think of two issues: namely your arrows will have a much longer range than Hypnotism does and you're losing DPS every time you pause to cast Hypno, esp. w/out Quicken. EDIT: too bad there's no way to add Bewildering to a bow.

Originally Posted by Sunnie

Unless my math-fu fails me that's a DC of 41.

I think I saw someone claim they hit DC 70 w/Paralyzing Arrows, but they didn't provide breakout of how they hit that DC.

My build should be able to pick up +4 DCs from SF:Enchant + Magister Twist, +7 from Band Immaterial, +3 from AA bonuses, +whatever WIS mod ends up being. If you hit WIS 62, that's DC 60, excluding any bard PLs or the like. Probably more I'm forgetting, though.

**Soraksis** · 01-23-2016, 05:38 PM

This may seem like a stupid question but for the shurishot build do you use a shuriken or bow? The reason I ask is because you still have us take conjure arrows from arcane archer line and that would make me think we use a bow but you also take shuriken expertise and the name of the build is shurishot. Sorry but I am new and confused.

**Pyyro_del_Drago** · 02-10-2017, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by unbongwah

EDIT (06/23/16): Okay, so let's look at an updated version of one of my personal builds which is influenced by both Sestra's original and jakeelala's thread. We'll go over the rationale behind my build decisions as we go.

Code:

Shadow Monkcher
12/6/2 Monk/Ranger/Fighter
Lawful Neutral Elf

Thinking of doing a build like this one once I finally get completionist in a couple lives. Would this one lose much by going helf over elf? Generally like them more. Which feat would you swap out for completionist on this one? (Want to use it once I finally have it). Could this build be done with 2 rogue or arti instead of fighter?

**unbongwah** · 02-10-2017, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Pyyro_del_Drago

Would this one lose much by going helf over elf?

You lose Shadow DM feat: bye-bye Displacement. But you gain a feat slot for Completionist and can take racial Ranged Power boost to double up, so hey: tradeoff.

Could this build be done with 2 rogue or arti instead of fighter?

Sure - particularly if you're dropping Shadow DM + Extend - but it might mess up your feat or leveling progression, because you need to take monk 12 by lvl 18 if you want Grandmaster of Forms there; otherwise it's delayed until epic lvls and epic feat slots are too tight already. Maybe level rog 1 / rgr 1-4 / monk 1-12 / rgr 5-6 / rog 2? You can put Manyshot into your lvl 9 feat slot; then swap it for Completionist just before you take rgr lvl 6. EDIT: rog splash would also open up stacking Stealthy speed boosts, which are apparently WAI (much to my surprise).

I haven't updated these builds yet for monk buffs. FYI, you can get Quick Draw feat free from the Henshin core but it costs 11 APs; and since these builds spend 6 Ninja + 14 racial + 41 AA to start, that doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room for APs.

**Pyyro_del_Drago** · 02-10-2017, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by unbongwah

You lose Shadow DM feat: bye-bye Displacement. But you gain a feat slot for Completionist and can take racial Ranged Power boost to double up, so hey: tradeoff.

I was thinking splashing rogue or arti might allow me to work on UMD a bit which might help with losing displacement? I used to run a monkcher with arti splash that could use scrolls, but that was before my hiatus, around when fall of truth dropped, so I don't know if something like that would be still be possible/viable.

Originally Posted by unbongwah

Sure - particularly if you're dropping Shadow DM + Extend - but it might mess up your feat or leveling progression, because you need to take monk 12 by lvl 18 if you want Grandmaster of Forms there; otherwise it's delayed until epic lvls and epic feat slots are too tight already. Maybe level rog 1 / rgr 1-4 / monk 1-12 / rgr 5-6 / rog 2? You can put Manyshot into your lvl 9 feat slot; then swap it for Completionist just before you take rgr lvl 6. EDIT: rog splash would also open up stacking Stealthy speed boosts, which are apparently WAI (much to my surprise).

Would you suggest rogue splash over arti? Mainly for the extra sneak attack? Alright, that makes sense, I don't mind running a gimpy character through levels, as I'll mostly be concentrated on my end game build. Just need to make sure I remember to switch manyshot out, so I don't need to waste an LR! Stealthy speed boost would be great too, though I can imagine it would be hard to fit in the AP.

Originally Posted by unbongwah

I haven't updated these builds yet for monk buffs. FYI, you can get Quick Draw feat free from the Henshin core but it costs 11 APs; and since these builds spend 6 Ninja + 14 racial + 41 AA to start, that doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room for APs.

Yeah, fair enough! I can imagine APs will be tough to map out with all of the options available. Definitely something that will take lots of planning with the monk changes and potentially rogue splash.

**C-Dog** · 02-12-2017, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by Pyyro_del_Drago

...Could this build be done with 2 rogue or arti instead of fighter?

If you're thinking of a Trapper version, might be tough - Int is a dumpstat, and Monk only gets 4 sp/lvl, so how to get all your Trap skills? Start moving Ranger around and I think you may run into Feat pre-req problems. But if you use the Character Planner, you might be able to jigger them all in?

But to answer your question directly (as I can find it irritating when people answer questions that were not asked, and not the one I actually did ask), OP answers that himself:

Originally Posted by unbongwah

I use the extra feats from ftr to enable me to add Shadow DM + Extend spell...

So, if you don't mind losing those (or any 2 others of your choice), sure.

Might be perfectly viable in the end, just not "the best monkcher" - which is what this thread was about.

**Pyyro_del_Drago** · 03-21-2017, 03:03 AM

Originally Posted by C-Dog

Might be perfectly viable in the end, just not "the best monkcher" - which is what this thread was about.

On that note, finally about to hit completionist and I want to know if this version of the build might work for my next extended grind of epic PLs. Wanted Dragonborn just for flavour and went the harper direction for KtA (and int to hit/dmg) and so I am able to get trapping with 2 levels of arti (also gaining umd). I know it may not be ideal because you lose elven AA tree (and so the capstone) and some shuriken doubleshot chance from going less dex.. But do you guys think this would be viable? Figured picking up KtA might help add some of the dps and UMD to balance out losing the displacement from elf DM. Would do same epic destiny enhancements/twists as Unbongwah listed in his 12/6/2 build.

Edit: that and the imbue from the rune arm and added effects on them could be fun when using shurikens.

Pyrau
12/6/2 Monk/Ranger/Artificer
Lawful Good Dragonborn

Level Order

1. Artificer . . . 6. Ranger . . . . 11. Monk . . . . . 16. Monk
2. Artificer . . . 7. Ranger . . . . 12. Monk . . . . . 17. Monk
3. Ranger. . . . . 8. Ranger . . . . 13. Monk . . . . . 18. Monk
4. Ranger. . . . . 9. Monk. . . . . .14. Monk. . . . . .19. Monk
5. Ranger. . . . .10. Monk. . . . . .15. Monk. . . . . .20. Monk

Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 10. . . .+6. . . .4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 12. . . .+6. . . .8: DEX
Constitution. . 12. . . .+6. . . 12: DEX
Intelligence. . 18. . . .+6. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . 16. . . .+6. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . 10. . . .+6. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT

Skills
. . . . . A .A. R .R. R .R. R .R. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M
. . . . . 1 .2. 3 .4. 5 .6. 7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Disable . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Open Lo . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Search. . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
UMD . . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spellcr . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . . . . . . . . . ½. ½. ½. ½. 1. 1. 15
Spot. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Jump. . . . . . . . . . . . 1 .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
Balance . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .32 .6 10 10 10 10 11 11. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9 10 10 10 10 11 11
. . . . .32 .8 10 10 10 10 11 11. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9 10 10 10 10 11 11

Feats

.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.1 Dragon : Draconic Ancestry: Red
.3. . . . : Quick Draw
.3 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
.6. . . . : Completionist
.7 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
.9. . . . : Precision
.9 Monk . : Zen Archery
10 Monk . : Shuriken Expertise
11 Monk . : Path of Harmonious Balance
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
14 Monk . : Ten Thousand Stars
15. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
18. . . . : Improved Critical: Thrown
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Holy Strike
27 Epic . : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Embodiment of Law
30 Epic . : Grandmaster of Forms OR Epic Dmg Reduction
30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane

Spells

Ranger

Jump, Ram's Might

Artificer

Resist Energy, Enchant Armor, Enchant Weapons

Enhancements (80 AP)

Arcane Archer (40 AP)

Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows
1. Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild II, Shock Arrows
2. Force Arrows III, Inferno Shot II, Elemental Damage
3. Terror Arrows, Soul Magic, Elemental Damage
4. Banishing Arrows, Paralyzing Arrows, Smiting Arrows, Elemental Damage
5. Moonbow, Arrow of Slaying, Final Strike, Elemental Damage, Runebow

Ninja Spy (13 AP)

Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training, Shadow Veil
1. Sneak Attack Training, Acrobatic III
2. Agility I, Sneak Attack Training
3. Sneak Attack Training

Harper Agent (12 AP)

Agent of Good I
1. Traveler's Toughness II, Strategic Combat
2. Versatile Adept II, Know the Angles III
3. Strategic Combat

Deepwood Stalker (11 AP)

Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot
1. Favored Defense II, Stealthy III
2. Melee/Range Power Boost III

Arcanotechnician (4 AP)

Arcanotechnician
1. Wand and Scroll Mastery III

**unbongwah** · 03-21-2017, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Pyyro_del_Drago

I know it may not be ideal because you lose elven AA tree (and so the capstone) and some shuriken doubleshot chance from going less dex.. But do you guys think this would be viable?

My suggestion would be to stick with elf or HE for an epic-farming build - you really want the last two AA cores - and save this build for when you need a template for banging out RRs, since it should work fine for any race. But it's your free time, so you do what you want with it...

Edit: that and the imbue from the rune arm and added effects on them could be fun when using shurikens.

Equipping a Runearm uncenters you, which means you can't use monk stances or TTS; also you bleed off ki pretty quickly. So even if you go with an arty splash, I recommend equipping a ki weapon in your offhand instead. This thread hasn't been updated since before the Cannith Crafting overhaul, but AFAIK the info in it is still correct.

**FestusHood** · 11-30-2015, 01:57 PM

I was planning to tr my current archer into a pure 20 elf monk archer. My buddy just did an iconic tr though, so i have some pressure to reincarnate into a sun elf version. Not ideal but what can ya do.

**Sunnie** · 11-30-2015, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by unbongwah

TBH, I don't know how much WIS you need to hit viable Paralyzing Arrow DCs. With a bit of effort, you could squeeze in up to +11 WIS (max base WIS 18, 2 from AA, 1 from Ninja, 6 from Div Crusader ED); but you have to sacrifice a significant chunk of dmg to do so. Gear-wise, Band Immaterial looks like your best option for boosting your Enchant DCs.

With 44 Wisdom and and all of Terror Arrows, Paralysing Arrows, Banishing Arrows, and Smiting Arrows taken (total +4 bonus to the DCs) approximately 1 hit out of 5 would paralyse the target in Lines of Supply on EE. Unless my math-fu fails me that's a DC of 41.

**xBunny** · 06-25-2019, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by unbongwah

For some loosely defined notion of "better," at any rate.

Code:

Zen Monkcher (U37)
Monk 20
Lawful Neutral Elf


Stats
               28pt     32pt     34pt     36pt     Level Up
               ----     ----     ----     ----     --------
Strength         8        8        8        8       4: DEX
Dexterity       20       20       20       20       8: DEX
Constitution    12       14       14       14      12: DEX
Intelligence     8        8        8        8      16: DEX
Wisdom          14       14       15       16      20: DEX
Charisma         8        8        8        8      24: DEX
                                                   28: DEX

Skills
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Concent   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Spellcr   1  1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1  11
UMD       2     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     11
Balance   1                                                            1
Tumble    1                                                            1
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         12  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3


Feats

 1        : Point Blank Shot
 1 Monk   : Shuriken Expertise
 2 Monk   : Precision
 3        : Rapid Shot
 6        : Precise Shot
 6 Monk   : Ten Thousand Stars
 8 Swap   : Zen Archery replaces Precision
 9        : Manyshot
12        : Improved Critical: Ranged
15        : Improved Precise Shot
18        : Precision OR Improved Critical: Thrown
21 Epic   : Combat Archery
24 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Holy Strike OR Pierce Damage Reduction: Silver OR Epic Spell Power: Acid
27 Epic   : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Embodiment of Law OR Deific Warding
30 Epic   : Improved Martial Arts
30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane OR Plane of Earth

 3 Monk   : Path of Inevitable Dominion

Hey. Is this build still relevant? Does elemental damage from AA tree works with shuri?

**unbongwah** · 06-26-2019, 11:06 AM

AA imbues no longer work with anything besides arrows. I think they fixed that bug a few years ago.

AFAIK nothing has changed which breaks my pure monkcher. I'm mostly retired from DDO these days, though, so I couldn't tell you how it compares to more recent ranged builds like Inquisitives.

**xBunny** · 06-26-2019, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by unbongwah

AFAIK nothing has changed which breaks my pure monkcher.

So shuri outperform bows, even without +5d6 elemental damage from AA?

Originally Posted by unbongwah

I'm mostly retired from DDO these days

Ahh sad to hear that, like to read your posts

**unbongwah** · 06-26-2019, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by xBunny

So shuri outperform bows, even without +5d6 elemental damage from AA?

The big advantage of shuriken over bows is their much higher number of procs due to Shuriken Expertise + Advanced Ninja Training stacking. Fixing the imbue bug nerfed shuriken DPS at the time but not enough for bows outside of Manyshot to catch up.

The real Golden Age of shuriken builds wasn't the AA imbue bugs, though. IMO it was when Vistani Knife Fighter's Weapon Versatility worked with any weapon; which let you apply Melee Power instead of Ranged Power to ranged or thrown weapons. That coupled with Henshin's high Melee Power led to builds like this glorious monstrosity. It was so obviously OP prior to release, I'm surprised it made it off Lamannia. But the devs eventually caught on and nerfed Weapon Versatility (and Henshin's MP). It was a great three months for shuriken builds while it lasted, though!

**xBunny** · 06-27-2019, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by unbongwah

The big advantage of shuriken over bows is their much higher number of procs due to Shuriken Expertise + Advanced Ninja Training stacking.

As I understand it depends on DEX strongly. For player with little past lives, tomes +2 from favor and random loot(like me), it roughly hits 50 DEX, meaning 50% to proc additional projectile. I see how it over DPS bows with 80+ dex, but is this true with 50 dex? Taking into account shuri has more attack speed with Quick Draw + Rapid Shot it might.

Originally Posted by unbongwah

The real Golden Age of shuriken builds wasn't the AA imbue bugs, though. IMO it was when Vistani Knife Fighter's Weapon Versatility worked with any weapon; which let you apply Melee Power instead of Ranged Power to ranged or thrown weapons. That coupled with Henshin's high Melee Power led to builds like this glorious monstrosity. It was so obviously OP prior to release, I'm surprised it made it off Lamannia. But the devs eventually caught on and nerfed Weapon Versatility (and Henshin's MP). It was a great three months for shuriken builds while it lasted, though!

Ahh yeah, I've read this article some time ago

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