Greater Ruin and "mana dumping"

[AtomicMew]

With casters being somewhat rebalanced for the next update, I think the idea behind this feat is worth re-evaluating in terms of balance. There is an issue in that some players can afford to perpetually mana dump, while newbies don't have the resources and can't afford to.

While I like the idea behind "mana dumping", the ability to burn SP at even higher rates than before increases the existing divide between casters with and without resources - based entirely on factors other than skill. A lot of veteran players have a huge reserve of mnemonics due to recent cards or when they were essentially free in the store many ages ago. It also eliminates resource management, which I've always felt was one of the enjoyable aspects of casters.

I think it makes sense to 1) reduce the SP cost of greater ruin and or normal ruin 2) introduce some penalty for excessive mnemonic usage, e.g., "mnemonic sickness - for 30 seconds drinking a mnemonic potions has no effect 3) increase the amount of mana regeneration options available to new players.

[Arkai]

Those are my two cents:


"EPIC ECHOES OF POWER: If your SP drops below 30%, you restore 30-50SP/second."


At least you can cast a single damage spell since all your DC spells are just not landing (hello, EE environment!) and DPS people is dealing +2600 damage per second. Kinda fair.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

those are my two cents:


"epic echoes of power: If your sp drops below 30%, you restore 30-50sp/second."


at least you can cast a single damage spell since all your dc spells are just not landing (hello, ee environment!) and dps people is dealing +2600 damage per second. Kinda fair.

best idea evahhhhhh!!!!!

[Atremus]

My thought to continue the SP fixes: At Level 21 any caster taking a epic level feat (Wellspring of power, Intensify and so on) should be auto granted Epic Echo's of Power[functionality as suggested above].

Another idea: Please add a farmable SP restoration item in the new Vale area akin to the Mysterious Bauble. It could have 3 or 4 charges of a superior elixir (Superior/Sovereign Store Pot gives 600SP minimum). Make it ML 26, BTCoE or BTC Exclusive.

[PNGameAcct]

My thought to continue the SP fixes: At Level 21 any caster taking a epic level feat (Wellspring of power, Intensify and so on) should be auto granted Epic Echo's of Power[functionality as suggested above].

Another idea: Please add a farmable SP restoration item in the new Vale area akin to the Mysterious Bauble. It could have 3 or 4 charges of a superior elixir (Superior/Sovereign Store Pot gives 600SP minimum). Make it ML 26, BTCoE or BTC Exclusive.

/signed. Even if it only has 1 charge, we REALLY need another farmable SP clickie (well, those of us without 20K majors sitting in the bank do, especially since they don't appear to drop much any more)

To continue with the ideas: An epic feat that allows a player to apply Divine Vitality apply to themselves. Maybe give it a limited amount of time, and a cooldown long enough to prevent someone from using it more than once or twice during a single quest. This may or may not be considered a waste of a feat, but it would be another option at least.

[AtomicMew]

Those are my two cents:


"EPIC ECHOES OF POWER: If your SP drops below 30%, you restore 30-50SP/second."


At least you can cast a single damage spell since all your DC spells are just not landing (hello, EE environment!) and DPS people is dealing +2600 damage per second. Kinda fair.

This sounds like a good idea, although maybe tweak the numbers a bit (30-50 SP/s sounds a bit much). I hope the devs are listening to this suggestion

[Sunnie]

Those are my two cents:


"EPIC ECHOES OF POWER: If your SP drops below 30%, you restore 30-50SP/second."


At least you can cast a single damage spell since all your DC spells are just not landing (hello, EE environment!) and DPS people is dealing +2600 damage per second. Kinda fair.

I like the idea a lot, but the numbers need tweaking. I'd put the threshold significantly lower, no higher than 10% of total SP. Regenerating 25-30 SP per 6 seconds would be ok, however.

[Enderoc]

the only time I would ever take RUIN as a feat, would be on a warlock.

[thomascoolone64]

Greater Ruin Should not exist at all, It is not DPS In any sort of way. IMHO

[IronClan]

Greater Ruin Should not exist at all, It is not DPS In any sort of way. IMHO

I disagree I would like the game to have dynamic range in terms of how we DPS things. Right now 99% of the game is about "how fast can you spam small amounts of damage/affixes/procs"

Repeaters
Warlocks
Shuricannons
Tempests/TWF of all sorts
SWF with +30% alacrity
Wolf form
SHiradi
THF spamming 3 to 7 cleaves

EVERYTHING is about spamming repeated attacks. Almost nothing (except SP based casting) is about applying the right spell at the right time, or weighing your SP use against the situation... These high SP use spells allow that, and allow a different build direction and largely completely different feeling playstyle to most of the others.

I just wish there are some Melee counterpart to SP based casting.

[Arkai]

I like the idea a lot, but the numbers need tweaking. I'd put the threshold significantly lower, no higher than 10% of total SP. Regenerating 25-30 SP per 6 seconds would be ok, however.

Yep, that was just an idea. Your proposal numbers seem right.

[Nadion]

Those are my two cents:


"EPIC ECHOES OF POWER: If your SP drops below 30%, you restore 30-50SP/second."


At least you can cast a single damage spell since all your DC spells are just not landing (hello, EE environment!) and DPS people is dealing +2600 damage per second. Kinda fair.

That amounts the unlimited SP. The devs may as well set all spell costs to zero as implement that.

[Vulkoorex]

Endless faith: Passive Bonus: Spell point pool increased by [4/7/10]%. Echoes of power restore up to [18/24/30] sp.

That's from Exalted Angel Tier 1.

EDIT: corrected wrong Tier.

[thomascoolone64]

Endless faith: Passive Bonus: Spell point pool increased by [4/7/10]%. Echoes of power restore up to [18/24/30] sp.

That's from Exalted Angel Tier 2.

No, actually your wrong its tier 1 look in the ED itself

[Arkai]

Endless faith: Passive Bonus: Spell point pool increased by [4/7/10]%. Echoes of power restore up to [18/24/30] sp.

That's from Exalted Angel Tier 1.

EDIT: corrected wrong Tier.

It gives 4sp every 4scs until you reach 30, a clearly insufficient ratio for our actual game.

[Arkai]

That amounts the unlimited SP. The devs may as well set all spell costs to zero as implement that.

So you think [a non maximized spell/2seconds] is gonna break the game in environments like DOJ or MOD?

[AtomicMew]

So you think [a non maximized spell/2seconds] is gonna break the game in environments like DOJ or MOD?

I think your suggestion is really good. There is still a lot of thinking in D&D logic, where spells are really valuable and shouldn't be spammed. but in DDO, the value of a spell is much closer to the value of the swing of a sword.

[Arkai]

I think your suggestion is really good. There is still a lot of thinking in D&D logic, where spells are really valuable and shouldn't be spammed. but in DDO, the value of a spell is much closer to the value of the swing of a sword.

Thanks, I think we share that view.

Anyway, this is a problem only affecting epic stuff; I love how they are working at heroic content and possibly I'm getting another bunch of wiz/sorc lives (lvls 1-20) in the majority of my active toons (:

[LiquidZombie]

I think it makes sense to 1) reduce the SP cost of greater ruin and or normal ruin

Ruin and Greater Ruin are actually priced quite competitively for their damage, if you consider that the base damage of a level 25 Polar Ray (the strongest no-save instant spell) is 100 - 150 per cast. Casting four PRs will do 400 - 600 damage, which on average is the same as a single Ruin, but will set you back 80 SP versus Ruin's 75 SP. Ditto for Greater Ruin which is 8 Polar Rays (160 SP) for 150 SP. And on top of that [Greater] Ruin do untyped damage, whereas many mobs are resistant to Polar Ray's cold damage.

3) increase the amount of mana regeneration options available to new players.

I think this is a great idea. Even if Epic Echoes only took you to 50 SP, this would still allow you to keep yourself healed with Death Aura (PMs), Reconstruct (warforged) etc. Much better than just 12 SP which doesn't allow you to do much more than spam Magic Missile and chug healing potions.

[JOTMON]

With casters being somewhat rebalanced for the next update, I think the idea behind this feat is worth re-evaluating in terms of balance. There is an issue in that some players can afford to perpetually mana dump, while newbies don't have the resources and can't afford to.

While I like the idea behind "mana dumping", the ability to burn SP at even higher rates than before increases the existing divide between casters with and without resources - based entirely on factors other than skill. A lot of veteran players have a huge reserve of mnemonics due to recent cards or when they were essentially free in the store many ages ago. It also eliminates resource management, which I've always felt was one of the enjoyable aspects of casters.

I think it makes sense to 1) reduce the SP cost of greater ruin and or normal ruin 2) introduce some penalty for excessive mnemonic usage, e.g., "mnemonic sickness - for 30 seconds drinking a mnemonic potions has no effect 3) increase the amount of mana regeneration options available to new players.

I don't see the point of Greater Ruin. Regular Ruin meta'd up is already quite powerful..

I would have liked to have seen a variety of alternate class/race like feats available at level 30 that do not stack with existing feats (not selectable if you already have)..
Divine Grace ( max +8 to all saves..)
Divine Health (Immune to disease/highly resistant to poisons, +5 fort saves,no fail on a 1 fort saves)
Feline Step (Evasion, + 5 Trap saves, no fail on a 1 reflex)
Mindflayer blooded (immune to some mind effects(Magic Circle Against Evil), +5 will saves, no fail on a 1 will save)
Spell Resistance +30
abundant step
Rune Arm Mastery (rune arm for the non artificers)
Unleash Iron Defender (get your own artificer pet as a non-artificer)
Call Wolf Companion (Druid)
Fast Movement (Barbarian)
Arcane Lore ( access to arcane scrolls/wands without requiring UMD)
Religious Lore ( access to divine scrolls/wands without requiring UMD)
Damage Reduction (dr/- 20 )
Improved Evasion (requires Evasion)
etc...