Whirlwind attack on Monks

[Marshal_Lannes]

I was looking at whirlwind attack for a (unarmed fighting) monk and wonder if anyone has had success with this? The high prerequisites and INT cost seem to be too prohibitive. WA requires dodge, mobility, spring attack and combat expertise (which needs a 13 INT). Monk starting stats usually look something like 16/15/15/16 (str,dex,con,wis) leaving very little wiggle room to put in INT. Even assuming +3 INT tome, still need to sneak take 2 INT points from somewhere. Feat wise for a monk, if you take CE instead of PA, then you don't get cleave, great cleave and the cleave from LD. Does whirlwind attack make up for the loss of all these cleaves? And what ED do you run in if you have taken WA? Doesn't seem worth it run in LD anymore. Or maybe you have to go deeper into Fighter levels to get more feats? Would like to hear from anyone who has run builds using this and if they would recommend it.

[DarkSable]

Unarmed fighting is the only style that WW attack isn't broken on - for monks, it correctly applies four hits to everything around you. (Two attacks with off hand procs.)

It's quite a nice feat, though tomes definitely help with the INT requirement.

It's also a staple feat of so-called "tree" builds, which are... finicky but powerful. There's also someone on the monk forums who has a monk that's basically a tree build without the tree, running around in Unyielding Sentinel. Takes him forever to kill anything, but nothing can come close to killing him, either.

[Robbenklopper]

I was looking at whirlwind attack for a (unarmed fighting) monk and wonder if anyone has had success with this? The high prerequisites and INT cost seem to be too prohibitive. WA requires dodge, mobility, spring attack and combat expertise (which needs a 13 INT). Monk starting stats usually look something like 16/15/15/16 (str,dex,con,wis) leaving very little wiggle room to put in INT. Even assuming +3 INT tome, still need to sneak take 2 INT points from somewhere. Feat wise for a monk, if you take CE instead of PA, then you don't get cleave, great cleave and the cleave from LD. Does whirlwind attack make up for the loss of all these cleaves? And what ED do you run in if you have taken WA? Doesn't seem worth it run in LD anymore. Or maybe you have to go deeper into Fighter levels to get more feats? Would like to hear from anyone who has run builds using this and if they would recommend it.

WWA is worth from my Point, i have no use for the +1D or +2D great cleave on my build, and i love to have CE. Running in LD is the best for DPS. WWA rocks!

[Marshal_Lannes]

WWA is worth from my Point, i have no use for the +1D or +2D great cleave on my build, and i love to have CE. Running in LD is the best for DPS. WWA rocks!

Did you still go PA and cleave for momentum swing in LD? Feat wise I think going at least 3 fighter makes sense for both the SD stance and the two free feats. Seems like I would need TWFx3, Stunning Fist, Dodge, CE, Mobility, Spring Attack, WA, PA, Cleave, Deflect Arrows

Monk - stunning fist, dodge, deflect arrows
Figther - twf, itwf
Human - PA
7 Feats - GTWF, GMoF, CE, Mobility, Spring Attack, WA, IC Blud

So the only way to get cleave as well would be to take 4 levels of fighter.

[jalont]

Did you still go PA and cleave for momentum swing in LD? Feat wise I think going at least 3 fighter makes sense for both the SD stance and the two free feats. Seems like I would need TWFx3, Stunning Fist, Dodge, CE, Mobility, Spring Attack, WA, PA, Cleave, Deflect Arrows

Monk - stunning fist, dodge, deflect arrows
Figther - twf, itwf
Human - PA
7 Feats - GTWF, GMoF, CE, Mobility, Spring Attack, WA, IC Blud

So the only way to get cleave as well would be to take 4 levels of fighter.

What is it about Momentum Swing that you like so much? Perhaps we should start there. Last time I tested, it didn't even work with handwrap attacks, though it's been awhile, and I guess they could have fixed it. If it's fixed, no one has updated wiki, but that really doesn't mean anything I suppose.

[unbongwah]

Did you still go PA and cleave for momentum swing in LD?

Momentum Swing doesn't work with unarmed atks. Lay Waste does, but w/out MS to reset the counter, it's of limited use to unarmed builds.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Hmm OK, thx. Guess I will pick a different ED then. Maybe DC or US or GMoF. I guess if I don't need PA or cleave, I can consider taking some FVS or Cleric to get empower healing for coccoon? Or just have a spare feat for something.

[unbongwah]

BTW, OP, I attempted to reverse-engineer someone else's BF monk 12 / warlock 5 / pal 3 in this thread. I can tell from the OP's hotbars that they have WWA, use CE and S.Fist, and are in LD. The rest is educated guesswork on my part.

[Snarglefrump]

Unarmed fighting is the only style that WW attack isn't broken on - for monks, it correctly applies four hits to everything around you. (Two attacks with off hand procs.)

Six hits if you use Shadow Double first. :-)

[Marshal_Lannes]

BTW, OP, I attempted to reverse-engineer someone else's BF monk 12 / warlock 5 / pal 3 in this thread. I can tell from the OP's hotbars that they have WWA, use CE and S.Fist, and are in LD. The rest is educated guesswork on my part.

Thx Unbongwah but I don't want to use warlock. Seems an easy out. I am thinking I want either 12 monk or 15 monk. 3 Fighter (feats over paladin) and X? This is theory until they do a fighter pass. If they reduce the cost of stuff like tac DCs 12/8 monk/fighter looks nice. As a build maker do u think it's worth going FVS or Cleric to get divine might or work paladin in?