Update 29 Feats: Legendary Feats

[Darkrok]

Invisibility guard needs to reset agro.

I can't resist this...

"There is no agro reset."

[Saekee]

Does the sneak attack damage of Scion of the Ethereal Plane work on ranks of hide, points spent in hide, or your hide score?

key question right here.
Already INT assassins are behind; this is the death knell (am fine with dex assassins, just saying)

In general I find all these changes to be problematic power creep for players.

[alancarp]

All of these new feats are pretty stout, but the clerics could really use a little love in one specific area: turn undead.

Something... somewhere in this large list... should help them out.

> Master of the Undead: Your turn dice are increased by 12, which stacks with all other turn dice enhancements.
> Scion of Khyber: AOE effect. All nearby undead are destroyed. 3 minute cooldown.

That would be helpful.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Pretty sure You misread the original post and misread mine. Was only suggesting 8 for everything when centered plus a dodge cap increase.

16 where?

+4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered.

unarmed monks get doublestrike to offhand. so when 8% is written, it pretty much means it is being balanced as 16%. which i think is a pretty huge dps buff for monks seeing as they can already get high double strike.

doubling the bonuses (+8% dstrike +8% dstrike) would result in +16% double strike, or 32% for unarmed monks.

[SirValentine]

I see options for boosting DCs of 3 schools, Necro, Evo, and Conj.

There any plans to help out other schools, too?

I could argue that Evo & Conj, in particular, needed more help the least, since they already have a couple ways to get higher DC not available to other schools. (Draconic Precise, and Sorc/Clr PLs.)

[Basura_Grande]

• Scion of Arborea
  
  • +20 Melee and Ranged Power
  • +20 Force Spell Power and +20 Universal Spell Power
    
  • +2 to the Enhancement Bonus of your weapon
  • +4 to Fortitude Saves

Does this break Celestia? If so can you give us a version that loses what I've put in bold?

[nibel]

One slight possible exception being that maybe... just maybe... I could theoretically run away while invisible, sneak and lose agro.
But I am not even sure that would work either.

Just a quick irrelevant note... it is possible to do this. I've done it more than once on my melee assassin.

[Qezuzu]

Scion of the Ethereal Plane is so far ahead of all the other feats for Rangers and Rogues it's not even funny.

Like that Scion of the Plane of Earth; +20 PRR is very appealing for a Rogue, but doing some quick math the 2d20 damage will only be doing about 80 on average after spellpower AND it can be resisted. Compare that to ~150 sneak attack damage.

Scion of Mechanus... great self-healing for any Warforged without the cost of AP. A Warforged Rogue with much better self heals?? But, 150 sneak attack damage. Scion of Arborea... I don't have to do the math that show that 20 MP won't give you 150 damage.

I seriously can't think of a reason to pick anything besides Ethereal Plane. I mean, that's not horrible, but just... how boring.

But I guess, ignoring that feat, I am about 90% certain Scion of the Plane of Earth would be the best for a Rogue and I'd just use nothing but that anyway.

At any rate, I bet it would make Barbarians take a serious look at taking points of hide (realistic hide score for classes without hide and dex would be what, 70?) I'll be carrying around a stack of Camouflage scrolls to increase my damage and begging Druids for a Spiderskin buff. To avoid some of this silliness, maybe make it a fixed amount of SA damage? Like, 10d6 or something? Tying DPS to a skill has some... bizarre implications.

[Ayseifn]

Scion of the Ethereal Planes seems alright as is, probably the best offensively for rogues/monks/rangers but other builds should get more out of others especially if they don't use Legendary Dreadnought. LD is more of a problem than Ethereal Planes here.

Defensively it's pretty weak, I already have a lot of displace clickies and never liked invis guard so it'll add nothing really.

[MonadRebelion]

Scion of limbo is very cool. Love the way you're thinking on that one.

Scion of Celestia is obnoxious. It is clearly aimed at divines. Giving divines more healing spell power is pointless. Trade the healing spell power for fire spell power or bonuses to evocation, necro, or conjuration DCs. That would be useful to a divine caster. Divine casters already have more than enough healing spell power. Putting +20 healing spell power on this feat is as much an incentive for a divine caster as putting +20 swim bonus on it. It's essentially a non-bonus.

[Ayseifn]

Scion of limbo is very cool. Love the way you're thinking on that one.

Scion of Celestia is obnoxious. It is clearly aimed at divines. Giving divines more healing spell power is pointless. Trade the healing spell power for fire spell power or bonuses to evocation, necro, or conjuration DCs. That would be useful to a divine caster. Divine casters already have more than enough healing spell power. Putting +20 healing spell power on this feat is as much an incentive for a divine caster as putting +20 swim bonus on it. It's essentially a non-bonus.

Adding 2D20 light damage would be nice here, then the 20 healing spell power might make some sense.

[draven1]

I'll be carrying around a stack of Camouflage scrolls to increase my damage and begging Druids for a Spiderskin buff. To avoid some of this silliness, maybe make it a fixed amount of SA damage? Like, 10d6 or something? Tying DPS to a skill has some... bizarre implications.

Did you try that Camouflage scroll? It lasts 1 min.
Will you really cast that scroll for +5 situaltional, non crittable damage for every 1 min?

I think current Scion of the Ethereal Planes is very proper for sneaky types, almost No additional defense benefits(most people already have semi-permanent displacement from multiple shroud clicky), but deadly damage. "Squishy, but deadly."
Anyway you can get damage from other feats whether you have aggro or not, but, sneak attack uptime IS NOT 100% even if you are very skilled assassin.

It's SITUATIONALLY USEFUL for most people. And it encourages using some player skills(to get SA up-time higher, you need aggro management) rather than facerolling with multiple past life & gears.

ps> stacking passive 10% incorporeality for Scion of the Ethereal Planes would be nice, current defensive benefits are useless for most builds.

How about replacing "Invisibility Guard" with "Dark Discorporation guard"? Current invisibility guard is also useless. When it proc, mobs still can see player ALWAYS. Dark Discorporation has very similiar effect & flavor but, has better defense part.
No warlock use Dark Discorporation, but, if it is from guard effect, sneaky types will LOVE it
Making lasting dark discorporation for 5 sec after attack or interaction would be nice, too.

[BigErkyKid]

[B]

[LIST][*]Scion of the Ethereal Plane

• Permanent Blur, and while sneaking, permanent Displacement.
• +1 point of Sneak Attack damage for every 2 points of Hide you have
• +2 to all Skills
• Permanent Invisibility Guard, as per the item effect

Is the permanent displacement whole sneaking useful at all? Honest question.

[Bobby88888]

All up I am not in the least excited for any of these feats. Only 1 of them is useful for my main and it is a boring feat that just straight up adds flat damage. In fact I would say I am disappointed with them overall, nothing jumps out at me as cool or heaps exciting for my builds, useful? sure but none of them make me go "OOOOOOHHHHHHH GIMMIE!!!"
I do however like the theme you have gone with here.

Scion of the plane of air
- The doge bonus isn't much use without mdb raise too in most cases.

Scion of the Ethereal plane
-Most people already have perma blur with with many many items granting it, just doesn't feel worth of a legendary feat and isn't overly useful.
-Displacement while sneaking. Totally useless. Even being missed in stealth breaks sneak and then you loose displacement.
- +1 SA damage per 2 points of hide you have. I am going to work under the assumption that this is the hide value shown on character sheet.
- +2 to all skills. Relatively useless but its better than the perma blur.
- Invis guard. What is the point of this ability anyway??? Scrap it and put something useful in. stacking incorp maybe? its in the same vein as the invis guard.
At lvl 30 my rogue will have 132 hide in current set up without any changes in buffs, gear or feats/enhancements for 66 damage pre MP. Assuming 100 MP (MtF or action boost up to get it this high) nets us 165 dmg per swing. Ofc MP values are bound to go up with the cap raise. The hide score can easily be boosted to for a bit more.
This feat basically just gives your sneaky types a decent buff to SA dmg and that's it. Its not that bad overall due to the dmg buff but that ability is the only 1 worth having on it. The others don't add anything and seem, to just be there to make it look bigger. But just a strait buff to dmg while effective is boring.
Most people look to be approaching this from a ranger perspective but remember that there are still some people left playing rogues...

Scion of the Astral Plane
- The Doublestrike bonus seems a little small and the dodge bonus really should at least have max dodge and maybe mdb with it too.

Scion of Celestia
Because Enlightened spirit warlocks really need access to this (is it the best one for them? idk haven't looked and not likely to any time soon) On the other hand fvs/clerics really do need access to this.

Scion of Elysium
-good to see this getting some support but might not be enough.

Scion of limbo
-Well this is cool but not all that great imo, ymmv.
-20 dodge isnt that good (if your not at your cap already by this lvl you dont want to rely on this to get u there being short term)
-You dont want that PRR some of the time, you want it when your getting hit. Which is usually always.
-All up fun but not overly useful.

I'm fairly ambivalent on the rest.

The only one that I feel needs a lot of work still is the Ethereal Plane, the rest can just use tweaks and brush ups while it could use 2-3 of its abilities redone with the possibility of scraping it and starting again. Coincedently it is also the only one that offers anything even remotely useful to me but it is also the one needing the most (or not such a coincidence, maybe i'm biased but 2 of its abilities are junk as presented and another isn't much better with the 4th being boring, more so since it is the only benefit.
Scion of the Ethereal Plane
- Ok we can work with the concealment property here. Bump it up. who cares about 20% conceal. Everyone already has at least 1 item giving this, there are wands galore to cast it. Its not uncommon that I end up with 3 or even more copies of this on me at once. Displace is junk as outlined above. How about we give perma conceal of 35-40% and give 70-80% when you leave sneak for X seconds? That 70-80% feels a bit high but its gotta be a decent bit above the static bonus otherwise who cares and 60-65% feels like that. But we don't want to get too far ahead of displacement either.
-The SA dmg from hide can remain how it is. It will give my rogue a little dps boost but still leave me fairly low in the pecking order, id say it could use more but rangers are too high already. So what then if we changed it to something that benefits rogues more than rangers but still useful to rangers. SA crits! maybe 19-20 x2 with potential for feats (imp crit and overwhelming crit) to add to it (+1 or 2 range and +1 multiplier on 19-20 respectively). Much more work though I would guess and it seems you guys really dont want to let SA dmg crit, but with rogues having more SA they scale more from it who need it more than the rangers.
- +2 skills. Ok I dunno what to do with this. If other things r too powerful than sure leave it here to make your 4th dot point, that is its only purpose really.
-Invisibility guard should go. Marginally useful vs ranged/casters but most things can still see you fine and if you need that to hide then why are you hiding. Maybe some stacking incorp, only a small amount, its in line thematically and all i can think of other than when you sneak you are also invisible but that does't seem very useful specially if the hide score dictates SA dmg bonus.

Bit strong now maybe but nowhere near as boring. But numbers can easily be adjusted to suit power levels but keep in mind why I set some numbers where I did.

my 2 cp anyway.

[slarden]

I see options for boosting DCs of 3 schools, Necro, Evo, and Conj.

There any plans to help out other schools, too?

I could argue that Evo & Conj, in particular, needed more help the least, since they already have a couple ways to get higher DC not available to other schools. (Draconic Precise, and Sorc/Clr PLs.)

This is a good point.

Enchantment is included in Scion of the Feywild.

I would think combining the remaining schools with the legendary feats that already have DC boosters might be a good way to do this.

Include Illusion with Scion of the Feywild. Transmutation would fit in well with Conjuration, etc.

[alancarp]

Adding 2D20 light damage would be nice here, then the 20 healing spell power might make some sense.

They kinda did with these:
+20 Positive, Light, & Alignment Spell Power, +20 Universal Spell Power
+30% Crit Damage with Positive, Light, & Alignment spells

That pretty well takes care of the divines... notwithstanding that turn undead is going to be of very limited use (though the highest level quest with significant undead is currently the Jibbers quest in Epic 3BC). If we could either combine my 'Scion of Khyber' idea to the Scion of Celestia -or- add the feat separately, then I'd think we clerics would be good to go.

[FuryFlash]

Would this be a good time to bring up that Invisibility really needs to give the 50% miss chance that it is suppose to. (and also just makes sense)

AND/OR Invisibility guard needs to reset agro.


Currently Invisibility guard seems useless to me.

One slight possible exception being that maybe... just maybe... I could theoretically run away while invisible, sneak and lose agro.
But I am not even sure that would work either.

As far as I can tell, currently it does no good at all... and may even cause lag and therefore hurt me instead of helping.

(feel free to correct me if I am wrong)

I'm currently using an invisibility guard on my rogue, and if you didn't know, the invisibility is unbreakable (even if attacking) AND it resets all aggro you have at the time. On it's own, this is useless for soloing (great for shedding aggro in a party), but if you sneak and run a ways, you will be completely concealed and aggro reset. I use it all the time in my static group and it's incredibly useful.

[biglou]

• Scion of the Plane of Earth
  
  • +4 to the DCs of Conjuration spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells
  • +20 PRR
  • +10 Acid Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power
  • Add 2d20 Acid damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)

How will this work with eldritch blast for a warlock will they only get the spell power or will the 2d20 acid be attacked to the blast same as a sword or bow

[HatsuharuZ]

These feats mention things like "+2 to the DCs of other spells". So what counts as a spell? SLAs? Rune-arms? Monk enhancements and finishing moves?

[Hipparan]

I like the abilities for the different elemental planes, but I think they could use a little bit of changing. Scion of the Plane of Fire is awesome with the spell crit damage, but I wish that that particular ability would go with the other elements as well.

Warlocks:

I feel that the Scion of the Plane of Fire would be overpowered for fiend pact warlocks, who would get extra spell crit damage from the Tainted Scholar tree, plus the awesome spellpower bonus and extra PRR and MRR.

However, the Scion of the Plane of Earth would be very nice for Great Old One pact warlocks, as the conjuration boosts the DC for tentacles by 4. The PRR bonus is nice too.

Scion of the Feywild is pretty nice for fey warlocks, since they get the enchantment bonus for their dancing balls. However, there is no PRR or MRR bonus, making fey warlocks not quite as appealing.

Overall, I think that these feats make fiend pact warlocks superior to the other pacts in the eldritch blast department. For Enlightened Spirits, the Scion of Celestia will probably be the most appealing feat.

Sorcerers:

Air Savants have difficulty (or so I have heard) with hitting evading enemies on epic quests with their electricity spells. I am not sure how much the +4 evocation DC will boost Air Savants, but I have a feeling it won't be much. In addition, the +4 dodge bonus seems a little low, and I am not sure how much dodge you can get on a sorcerer. It looks like Scion of the Plane of Air isn't all that great for air savants as compared to the other savants with their respective elemental plane feats.

Earth Savants use conjuration for most of their acid spells, so I think the conjuration DC bonus from the Scion of the Plane of Earth works. Once again though, not sure how acid blast will be against enemies that evade on EE difficulty, even with the DC boost. +20 PRR is nice, especially since sorcerers need all of the defense they can get when they grab aggro. Scion of the Plane of Earth looks pretty good here.

Water Savants would most likely use the Scion of the Plane of Water feat. It seems pretty good. The +20 MRR is nice, but I am not sure how much +200 spellpoints matters when sorcerers at level 28 are getting between 3000 and 4000 spellpoints (depending on how the build is).

Fire Savants would definitely use the Scion of the Plane of Fire feat. This feat is awesome. It gives extra spell crit damage, which is amazing for sorcerers. Also, this feat gives both PRR and MRR, although only +10 to each compared to the +20 PRR from Earth and +20 MRR from Water.

Overall, the Scion of the Plane of Fire feat seems overpowered compared to the other feats. I currently have a level 11 Air Savant, and I will give him the Scion of the Plane of Fire feat if there are no changes to the feats. I would even give this feat to a water savant if I had one, because the +10 spellpower that I would be losing for ice of electric spells is just nothing compared to +25% crit damage with ALL spells. I love flavor builds, but the idea of a water, earth, or air savant being a Scion of the Plane of Fire leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I would also recommend perhaps giving the extra elemental damage to spells as well (yes I know people would be spamming magic missiles if this was the case, but perhaps it could be coded to be once per second or something).