Update 29 Feats: Legendary Feats

[blerkington]

Hi,

Please avoid adding any effects which are likely to produce lag.

Invisibility guard has been a problem in the past. Some of these other effects look like they might also be problematic.

Thanks.

[Grailhawk]

70 Dexterity (Probably too high, this is with tomes and maxed out end-game gear)= +30 Hide
23 Ranks = +23 Hide
Deepwood Stalker = +3 Hide
Augment (Hard to find, harder when it's useful) = +15 Hide
71 Hide (With numbers that are probably too high and a very uncommon item)
Even with a +6 dexterity skills item (Not recommended) only at
77 Hide

77 Hide= +38 Sneak Attack Damage
Melee Power: +6 Sightless, +20 ToEE Set, +70 Blitz, +14 Tempest, +18 MP Dreadnought, +30 MP Epic Levels, +2 MP Tomes (Getting silly now)= 160 (Your numbers were a bit conservative, figured I'd go all out)
Melee Power multiplies +38 by 150% of itself; Therefore, effective increase of *2.4
38 * 2.4 = 91.2
Attacks per second base of TWF~3 (Tested loosely on my guild ship dummy with 28 BAB and Haste Boost Going)
Attacks with 58% Doublestrike (15% Fellblade or Firstblood, 9% 3 EPL, 20% Killer, 5% Perfect TWF, 9% Tempest)~4.74
Attacks with 35% Offhand Doublestrike as well(10% Perfect TWF, 25% Capstone)~5.79
Rounding up to make sure my point is proven~6 attacks per second

6(attacks per second) * 91.2 (damage per attack)= 548 DPS (Rounded the .2 up, it makes my number look scarier at the cost of good math)

Make sure to show your work, otherwise I have to write all of mine out to disprove it. Personally the hide bonus is just fine how it is, this number was calculating in everything and rounding up, as well as including some things that aren't practical. Arborea still isn't highly appealing to me personally, but when these come out I'll probably be using Plane of Water at least to start anyway for the MRR Boost and significant DPS increase.

you forgot camouflage spell, good hope, Items go up to +20, there are stalking cosmetic +3 effects, and a lot of the +1 or +2 to skill effects that will stack not counting ship buffs, or enhancements.

You are way underselling how high you can get the hide skill with out trying. My rogue has a once buffed 97 Ranger would get 107. This is with out giving up anything related to DPS.

[Krell]

***Please make sure you have read this thread first, it contains an overview of Update 29 Feats.***


At level 30 you will get a choice of one Legendary Feat. These feats are stronger than most of your standard feats, and pull their power from different planes. To help round power levels in upper Epic, a lot of these feats are meant to be a little more powerful for characters that have built for versatility; most of them include parts useful to many kinds of players.



[LIST]

• Scion of the Ethereal Plane
  
  • Permanent Blur, and while sneaking, permanent Displacement.
  • +1 point of Sneak Attack damage for every 2 points of Hide you have
  • +2 to all Skills
  • Permanent Invisibility Guard, as per the item effect

Very nice for assassin builds with the permanent displacement. I think the blur is a non-factor considering all the items with blur. There are also more items with lesser displacement now. Lesser displacement there would open a lot of slot options. For a non-sneaking Rouge I think the only real nice item is the sneak damage. Personally I don't think +2 skills makes much difference at the last couple levels and invisibility guard doesn't seem to keep you from getting beat on most of the time. I like the overall concept though.

• Scion of the Astral Plane
  
  • +4 to Tactical Feat DCs
  • +4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered.
  • +4% Dodge.
  • +4 to Reflex Saves.

Does this raise the dodge cap like Scion of the Plane of Air? I can't remember the last time I had a character that wasn't dodge capped.

• Scion of Elysium
  
  • Summoned creatures gain +25 PRR and MRR
  • Summoned creatures gain +20 MP, RP, and USP
  • Summoned creatures gain +100% Fortification
  • Summoned creatures gain a 5% chance to ignore incoming damage entirely. Does not affect any incoming Positive, Negative, or Repair effects.

Niche feat but I'm sure someone will like it.

• Scion of Arborea
  
  • +20 Melee and Ranged Power
  • +20 Force Spell Power and +20 Universal Spell Power
  • +2 to the Enhancement Bonus of your weapon
  • +4 to Fortitude Saves

The Arti feat? I think for most melee and ranged the +20 power is the main feature. +2 enhancement bonus is mostly a non-factor. +4 fort saves is ok.

• Scion of Limbo
  
  • +2 Determination Bonus to all Saves
  • eight buffs, each one minute long. Cycles randomly.
    
    • +40 Melee and Ranged power, +80 Spell Power
    • +16% Doublestrike & Doubleshot, +20% Spell Crit Damage
    • +30 PRR and MRR
    • +20% Dodge and +40 Healing Amp
    • +20 DR /Law
    • Your weapon/unarmed strikes and spells deal 1d20 Chaos Damage
    • Each time you would be damaged, you have a +5% chance to completely ignore the damage. Does not affect any incoming Positive, Negative, or Repair effects.
    • Confetti explodes around your shoulders. Festive!
    
    I have to admit I like the randomness. Most of the individual effects are pretty good. Except for confetti which tells everyone you lose! Maybe have the chaos damage scale with melee/ranged power.

I'm glad to see a large number of feats in the lists for 29 and 30. Looking at all the new feats in their entirety, the bent seems to be more towards casters. Maybe that was the intent.

[Wulverine]

Yes, hide can go much higher.

The point though,I think, is that holymunchkin is calculating the effect meleepower has on sneak dmg wrongly.

Assuming his numbers.
7 attacks with 50 sneak dmg each = 350 dmg

He's doing 350 x 1.5 x 2.5 =1312.5

How sneakattack actually works is that the Meleepower used to scale the sneakattack dmg, is increased by 50%. So meleepower (for purposes of sneakdmg) becomes 225 (150% of 150meleepower).

What the actual dmg per second becomes =

350 x 3.25 = 1137.5

[Atremus]

• Scion of Celestia
  
  • +20 Positive, Light, & Alignment Spell Power, +20 Universal Spell Power
  • +30% Crit Damage with Positive, Light, & Alignment spells
  • +150 Maximum Hit Points
  • +4 to Will Saves

Sold for my FvS!

[sjbb87]

Scion of the Astral Plane need a buff

[Kielbasa]

Astral plane double all the effects and increase the dodge cap for monks given their current state and you may give the diehard monk fans a reason to stay at cap for longer than it takes to TR.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Would this be a good time to bring up that Invisibility really needs to give the 50% miss chance that it is suppose to. (and also just makes sense)

AND/OR Invisibility guard needs to reset agro.


Currently Invisibility guard seems useless to me.

One slight possible exception being that maybe... just maybe... I could theoretically run away while invisible, sneak and lose agro.
But I am not even sure that would work either.

As far as I can tell, currently it does no good at all... and may even cause lag and therefore hurt me instead of helping.

(feel free to correct me if I am wrong)

[Blastyswa]

you forgot camouflage spell, good hope, Items go up to +20, there are stalking cosmetic +3 effects, and a lot of the +1 or +2 to skill effects that will stack not counting ship buffs, or enhancements.

You are way underselling how high you can get the hide skill with out trying. My rogue has a once buffed 97 Ranger would get 107. This is with out giving up anything related to DPS.

You're right, I forgot Greater Heroism and Camo. Only stacking cosmetic I can think of is spider cult mask, others are competence and non stacking. Equipping a +20 item would likely require sacrificing more DPS or survivability than would be gained by 5 hide, and I included deepwood stalkers skill effect, ship buff I did forget.
So let's say in total you do manage to get 100 Hide. Sneak Attack increases by 12 from my number, *2.4 is 28.8, * 6 is 173 extra damage, putting total DPS increase at around 700. My point still stands that the original poster had significantly boosted numbers, and if you provide a breakdown on where you're slotting a +20 item and a +6 insightful dexterity skills bonus I'm fairly certain I can point out how it's dropping DPS or survivability (Greensteel would be effective for +6 insightful dexterity skills and probably is the best option to include this).

[Wulverine]

You're right, I forgot Greater Heroism and Camo. Only stacking cosmetic I can think of is spider cult mask, others are competence and non stacking. Equipping a +20 item would likely require sacrificing more DPS or survivability than would be gained by 5 hide, and I included deepwood stalkers skill effect, ship buff I did forget.
So let's say in total you do manage to get 100 Hide. Sneak Attack increases by 12 from my number, *2.4 is 28.8, * 6 is 173 extra damage, putting total DPS increase at around 700. My point still stands that the original poster had significantly boosted numbers, and if you provide a breakdown on where you're slotting a +20 item and a +6 insightful dexterity skills bonus I'm fairly certain I can point out how it's dropping DPS or survivability (Greensteel would be effective for +6 insightful dexterity skills and probably is the best option to include this).

You forgot a lot more then GH and Camo...
+2 Completionist
+5 Skill Tome
+10 From epic levels
There's probably a couple more i cant think of off the top of my head, without sacrificing DPS

I agree that a +20item and 6insightfull DEX skills items would not be wise.

Edit:
I dont have a TWF character right now so i am unsure of the amount of attacks you can get per second. Using your 6 attacks per second would be:
100 Hide = +50 sneak dmg. For 6 attacks that's 300 dmg.
Assuming 160 melee power (your number, but probably fairly attainable considering we haven't seen the new raid loot yet).
300 x 3.4 (240melee power total) = 1020 DPS added by this feat.

If holymunchkin can indeed squeeze out 7 attacks:
350 x 3.4 = 1190.


Whatever the case, 1k+ DPS booster on sneakattackable mobs is huge and makes this feat very very attractive for a couple of builds

[Grailhawk]

You're right, I forgot Greater Heroism and Camo. Only stacking cosmetic I can think of is spider cult mask, others are competence and non stacking. Equipping a +20 item would likely require sacrificing more DPS or survivability than would be gained by 5 hide, and I included deepwood stalkers skill effect, ship buff I did forget.
So let's say in total you do manage to get 100 Hide. Sneak Attack increases by 12 from my number, *2.4 is 28.8, * 6 is 173 extra damage, putting total DPS increase at around 700. My point still stands that the original poster had significantly boosted numbers, and if you provide a breakdown on where you're slotting a +20 item and a +6 insightful dexterity skills bonus I'm fairly certain I can point out how it's dropping DPS or survivability (Greensteel would be effective for +6 insightful dexterity skills and probably is the best option to include this).

Your attack speed is also a bit low though. TWF at bab 20 has 133.3 swings per minute hast boost and haste (swings not attacks so at 100% off hand proc that's 266 attacks per minute).

133*1.58 + 133*1.35
133.3( 2.93)
390.56 attacks per minute
6.51 attacks per second

50 Sneak attack damage
160 Melee Power (@150% = 240) (melee power multiplier is (100+240)/100 = 3.4)

50*3.4 = 170 damage per hit after applying 160 melee power at 150% scaling

6.51 Attacks per second
170 * 6.51 = 1106.61 DPS

4.99 Attacks per second (haste only no Haste boost 102.2* 2.93 = 299.45/60 = 4.99)
170 * 4.99 = 848.30 DPS

[Holymunchkin]

Ty for clarifying the difference Grail. Ty for pointin' that out wulv

[Grailhawk]

Ty for clarifying the difference Grail. Ty for pointin' that out wulv

To get close to 7 aps you need to start factoring 20% hast from Madstone boots.

At BAB 30 (note there is some extrapolation her on my part its not 100% accurate like vanishes numbers at 20 BAB are) With 50% hast and the 58%/35% DS we get to 6.95 attacks per second.

@20 BAB 0% Haste Swings = 86.7
@30 BAB 0% Haste Swings = 89.05

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Scion of the Astral Plane need a buff

Astral plane double all the effects and increase the dodge cap for monks given their current state and you may give the diehard monk fans a reason to stay at cap for longer than it takes to TR.

you mean 16% double strike isnt enough? you mean 32% wouldnt be too much? just stop.

[Kielbasa]

you mean 16% double strike isnt enough? you mean 32% wouldnt be too much? just stop.

Pretty sure You misread the original post and misread mine. Was only suggesting 8 for everything when centered plus a dodge cap increase.

[Blastyswa]

Whatever the case, 1k+ DPS booster on sneakattackable mobs is huge and makes this feat very very attractive for a couple of builds

Agreed. As a ranger booster feat though, I think it's fine to leave as is unless actual in-game testing shows it to be giving too much power to rangers. Have to keep in mind that everyone will be getting one of these feats, so it'll be a comparison of several hundred damage and some defense bonuses vs. the hide sneak damage.

[sjbb87]

you mean 16% double strike isnt enough? you mean 32% wouldnt be too much? just stop.

16 where?

Scion of the Astral Plane
+4 to Tactical Feat DCs
+4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered.
+4% Dodge.
+4 to Reflex Saves.

i see 4 here... and 8 to monks/kensei maybe change this feat to:

Scion of the Astral Plane
+8 to Tactical Feat DCs
+8% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered.
+8% Dodge.
+8 to Reflex Saves.

[Blastyswa]

Your attack speed is also a bit low though. TWF at bab 20 has 133.3 swings per minute hast boost and haste (swings not attacks so at 100% off hand proc that's 266 attacks per minute).

133*1.58 + 133*1.35
133.3( 2.93)
390.56 attacks per minute
6.51 attacks per second

50 Sneak attack damage
160 Melee Power (@150% = 240) (melee power multiplier is (100+240)/100 = 3.4)

50*3.4 = 170 damage per hit after applying 160 melee power at 150% scaling

6.51 Attacks per second
170 * 6.51 = 1106.61 DPS

4.99 Attacks per second (haste only no Haste boost 102.2* 2.93 = 299.45/60 = 4.99)
170 * 4.99 = 848.30 DPS

Thanks for having good work to back it up, makes it a lot easier to agree with you. I did my attack speed calculations myself immediately before posting, so I'm not too surprised other testing showed it to be a little different. I made a mistake in my initial melee power multiplication, your numbers are more accurate.
I would still say that the ability is fine as is, since camoflauge is needed to achieve such high hide relegating it mainly to a position as a very good ability for rangers, and additionally due to the fact this DPS amount is in comparison to the DPS amounts gained by 20 Melee/Ranged Power or 2d20 Elemental Damage scaling with spellpower.

[maddong]

In general looks great!

[Astarii]

It would be nice for Scion of Elysium to have Creature Regeneration or Vampirism, its always a pain to heal up those creatures. Perhaps even double there summon times? Since its time sensitive.
or Maybe provide a new summons that will work in epics.
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For some of the others it would be also nice if on the others there was some way to have a 5% (or some percent) to automatically land you spell (bypassing the DC checks, Saves, SP, MRR etc.) OR even have some SP Regeneration finally...
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btw, Air & Water seems a little weak compared to the others for spell casters; But overall it seems like casters get a bigger / better boost them melees (guess I will just have to try them out and see)