Update 29 Feats: Legendary Feats

[mikarddo]

you mean like weapon focus, weapon specialization, improved critical?
all come in slashing, blud, piercing, ranged, etc

None of which have any relevans here as they are not included in the feats.

Caster feats: One has +4 dc to evoc, another +4 dc to necro etc. One has +cold, another +repair etc. This results in many, weaker feats than simply having 1 feat that adds +4 DC to all schools and +universal.

Melee feat: + doublestrike adds to add types of weapons. + melee power similarly. Thus fewer feats. One could make multiple weaker feats by splitting these effects up based on weapon or damage type to achieve what you are seeing for casters.

So, your complaint is flat out misguided as far as I am concerned. Fewer, but stronger feats that consolidate rather than split up power is more desireable not less.

[lyrecono]

That I take and stack the mp bonuses? Or did they nerfed it so bludgeon won't help Pierce anymore?

the mp does, the focus/specialisation and impr critticl doesn't, and thats the meat and patatoes of those feats, noboddy sane would take all those feats without running the risk of willingly gimping himself

There are generalist casters (prepared casters, and specially wizards) whose advantage is the access to a higher variety of spells. When you restrict these casters to 1 or 2 schools you are negating their advantage. Today the gap between the specialist school and the others is too huge. just like pnp? just like when the cap was 20 and nobody had past life feats to fill in the gap?

Anyway these feats are not generalists, are specialist feats: for this reason there are many. i fully understant and support it, all i was asking for was a melee feat or 2 instead of hand me downs

If devs have to contemplate the specialization in a school (to choose from a lot of schools), the specialization in a spellpower (to choose from 9 energy types) and a dps focus over a DC focus, they have to do more casters feats, it's not hard to understand. But for a caster are not better than the melees ones for a melee.

I am not oversimplifing melee dps. Weapons are not covered by epics feats. You can grind for gear and take a heroic feats for improved crits. These feats cover the important melee stats. Hey, there are not in these list either a feat that cover all caster stats. There are a list because there are a lot of stats in which a caster can specialize.

Displacement and blur as spells? meh. There are a lot of items with these effects. Greater heroism? avalaible in item. Haste? avalaible in item. Prot vs energy? a absortion item is better. Resist energy? augment or items. And items don't cost sp and they are not dispellable.
Yet they are harder to dispel then clickies, last longer, don't waste item slots, require less grinding and can be gained at a lower level, it's called a trade off

You can't complain of the state of melee nowadays, the are very pampered. And these feats are nor better for melee than casters.

i'm not complaining about the state of melee's in general, i'm complaining about is that i have to grind out 3.15 million exp for the "luxury" of having to pick between a pathetic melee feat and a elderich knight caster hand me down.

None of which have any relevans here as they are not included in the feats.
missing the point that we were talking about having to specialize, fighters do the same thing

Caster feats: One has +4 dc to evoc, another +4 dc to necro etc. One has +cold, another +repair etc. This results in many, weaker feats than simply having 1 feat that adds +4 DC to all schools and +universal.

Melee feat: + doublestrike adds to add types of weapons. + melee power similarly. Thus fewer feats. One could make multiple weaker feats by splitting these effects up based on weapon or damage type to achieve what you are seeing for casters.

So, your complaint is flat out misguided as far as I am concerned. Fewer, but stronger feats that consolidate rather than split up power is more desireable not less.

Missing the points that doublestrike is wasted on a large chunk of the pure melee's, it doesn't work on cleaves, cleaves that are in the enh tree's and melee ED's
the melee power is nice but the rest of it seems to indicate it was meant for an elderich knight, basically, it's a hand me down, scraps of the table..

[Qezuzu]

like i said, 8 are caster orientated, 2 are somewhat melee orientated but 1 still has caster components and 1 is somwhat use impaired to most melee's

Are you saying you don't see to which side the scale is tipping?

I'm seriously having trouble seeing your issue here, nor why you think it's so big an issue that it warrants arguing for multiple pages. What do you want? Do you want all the feats split up? Do you want Scion of the Plane of Earth (Magic) and SotPE (Physical) to be two separate things? Do you think melees aren't getting enough from this feats? Are you just repulsed by having a feat give you spell-power?

Most of these feats are extremely nice for melees:

4 elemental ones each get 2d20, which is an average of ~75 damage per hit after you take into account easy sources of spell power. Furthermore they provide PRR and/or MRR.

Feywild similarly gives 2d20 damage, and some heal amp. Also useful for melees, unless you think 75 damage a hit is not good, or something.

1d6 healing per hit... given your rate of attack and healing amp, that's quite substantial.

Ethereal Plane: no explanation needed here.

Astral Plane: Woefully underpowered, but offers nothings for casters.

Mechanus: since caster toasters can just repair on themselves, this is ostensibly a melee/ranged-focused feat, and it gives 10% fort bypass as well.

Celestia: so far, the weakest feat for melees, and that's because it's 'only' giving 150 hitpoints, improving your healing slightly, and giving will saves. It's not like casters get much benefit out of it, though.

Elysium: lol

Arobrea: +20 melee power woo!! Wait does the force spell power not make this melee'y enough?

Limbo: every buff can benefit you in some way.

As far as I can tell, basically not a single feat is "caster-focused." Does spell-power automatically make something caster-focused? Is that your criteria?

I'm not seeing your issue. Do you need these re-designed to be more focused, and with big, bold letters saying "THESE ARE MELEE FEATS, THESE ARE RANGED FEATS, THESE ARE CASTER FEATS. NO MIXING!!!" Why is it so big an issue that these feats give caster stuff and melee stuff at the same time? Is +75 damage a hit simply not good enough?

[Atremus]

Divine casters can equip heavy armor and even equip orbs and shields to help defenses, come to think of it, arcanes can too

FvS are not proficient in Heavy Armor.

[Silverleafeon]

FvS are not proficient in Heavy Armor.

Nor are druids who also have to avoid any sort of metal on orbs/shields/armor...

[lyrecono]

I'm seriously having trouble seeing your issue here, nor why you think it's so big an issue that it warrants arguing for multiple pages. What do you want? Do you want all the feats split up? Do you want Scion of the Plane of Earth (Magic) and SotPE (Physical) to be two separate things? Do you think melees aren't getting enough from this feats? Are you just repulsed by having a feat give you spell-power?

Most of these feats are extremely nice for melees:

4 elemental ones each get 2d20, which is an average of ~75 damage per hit after you take into account easy sources of spell power. Furthermore they provide PRR and/or MRR.

Feywild similarly gives 2d20 damage, and some heal amp. Also useful for melees, unless you think 75 damage a hit is not good, or something.

1d6 healing per hit... given your rate of attack and healing amp, that's quite substantial.

Ethereal Plane: no explanation needed here.

Astral Plane: Woefully underpowered, but offers nothings for casters.

Mechanus: since caster toasters can just repair on themselves, this is ostensibly a melee/ranged-focused feat, and it gives 10% fort bypass as well.

Celestia: so far, the weakest feat for melees, and that's because it's 'only' giving 150 hitpoints, improving your healing slightly, and giving will saves. It's not like casters get much benefit out of it, though.

Elysium: lol

Arobrea: +20 melee power woo!! Wait does the force spell power not make this melee'y enough?

Limbo: every buff can benefit you in some way.

As far as I can tell, basically not a single feat is "caster-focused." Does spell-power automatically make something caster-focused? Is that your criteria?

I'm not seeing your issue. Do you need these re-designed to be more focused, and with big, bold letters saying "THESE ARE MELEE FEATS, THESE ARE RANGED FEATS, THESE ARE CASTER FEATS. NO MIXING!!!" Why is it so big an issue that these feats give caster stuff and melee stuff at the same time? Is +75 damage a hit simply not good enough?

i posted multiple times what i wanted, i assume you picked it up since you mentioned seeing me post on multiple pages.
A miner tweak on 2 feats, that's all.
it's not that i think i'm not getting enough, it's the notion of being just an afterthought.
4 elemental ones each get 2d20, wich require spellpower on a melee, that doesn't always has aces to spell power as a skill or feats.
Feywild similarly gives 2d20 damage, like i posted far earlier, nice for bards, worthless to many full melee classes due to lack of getting spellpower and feats, you're not suggesting having to waste a red slot for spell power are you?
1d6 healing per hit, actually, didn't we have that rate of healing in heroics? anyways, the point is moot, 3 spell caster points vs 1d6 healing on hits, in EE seriously?
Scion of the Ethereal Plane, see my earliest post on this, nice for rogs, not for heavy melee's
Scion of the Astral Plane see earlier post on it being under powered and what "could" be changed to make it work, as it is now, better (monk) options are out there, including some of the elemental ones.
Scion of Celestia, are you kidding me? a fvs/clr/warlock's wetdream
Scion of Mechanus as stated, usable by any toaster,
Scion of Elysium yeah
Scion of Arborea like i said, it's a hand me down for elderich knights
Limbo, yeah i refused to comment on this one so far, it's nice but too unreliable for me, i do however understand how people might like it, it's like a good version of a deck of many things

[lyrecono]

FvS are not proficient in Heavy Armor.

Since when does that mater, like barbarians, it's 1 feat away


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[Steelstar]

Hey, folks.

Just wanted to let you know that we're planning on adjusting Astral to be:

Scion of the Astral Plane

• +4 to Tactical Feat and Assassinate DCs
• +4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered.
• +4% Dodge, +4 to Dodge Cap.
• +4 to Reflex Saves.

[lyrecono]

Hey, folks.

Just wanted to let you know that we're planning on adjusting Astral to be:

Scion of the Astral Plane

• +4 to Tactical Feat and Assassinate DCs
• +4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered.
• +4% Dodge, +4 to Dodge Cap.
• +4 to Reflex Saves.

awesome addition!

any word on Scion of Arborea?

[Steve_Howe]

Hey, folks.

Just wanted to let you know that we're planning on adjusting Astral to be:

Scion of the Astral Plane

• +4 to Tactical Feat and Assassinate DCs
• +4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered.
• +4% Dodge, +4 to Dodge Cap.
• +4 to Reflex Saves.

Awww man. Assassinate not added to Ethereal Scion?

I has a sad.

[slarden]

Hey, folks.

Just wanted to let you know that we're planning on adjusting Astral to be:

Scion of the Astral Plane

• +4 to Tactical Feat and Assassinate DCs
• +4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered.
• +4% Dodge, +4 to Dodge Cap.
• +4 to Reflex Saves.

Very nice. Thank you for adding assassinate somewhere.

[Qezuzu]

i posted multiple times what i wanted, i assume you picked it up since you mentioned seeing me post on multiple pages.
A miner tweak on 2 feats, that's all.
it's not that i think i'm not getting enough, it's the notion of being just an afterthought.

I still don't understand why you think melees are "just an after thought." Most of these feats have very good effects for melees. You seem to think every feat that has caster benefits is automatically caster-centric.

worthless to many full melee classes due to lack of getting spellpower and feats, you're not suggesting having to waste a red slot for spell power are you?

It's not wasting if you're getting a benefit. If you only have one red slot it should be going to Devotion anyway, and there's items you can work in that give you Devotion so that you can free up that red slot if you really want to.

Furthermore, you get 100 SP for free (60 from 10 epic levels, 40 from the feat itself). That 2d20 becomes 42 damage per hit at absolutely no investment beyond the feat alone. This is on top of some bonus PRR/MRR/Heal Amp.

1d6 healing per hit, actually, didn't we have that rate of healing in heroics? anyways, the point is moot, 3 spell caster points vs 1d6 healing on hits, in EE seriously?

It's actually 1 caster point, 2 Palemaster points and 1d6 heal/hit for ANY melee or ranged build. 1d6 healing, times heal amp, times rate of attack, times cleaves is substantial (but not enough to make you immortal by itself, which it shouldn't).

Scion of Arborea like i said, it's a hand me down for elderich knights

Hand me down what? What does this even mean?? It gives +20 MP, that's quite a bit! What's the freaking issue? Is the Force Spell power so offensive? Is melee really an after-thought in this one, when +20 melee power is substantially more potent than that spell power?

[SableShadow]

Hey, folks.

Just wanted to let you know that we're planning on adjusting Astral to be:

Scion of the Astral Plane

• +4 to Tactical Feat and Assassinate DCs
• +4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered.
• +4% Dodge, +4 to Dodge Cap.
• +4 to Reflex Saves.

HmmmMmmmm...decisions, decisions...

[Hoglum]

Hey, folks.

Just wanted to let you know that we're planning on adjusting Astral to be:

Scion of the Astral Plane

• +4 to Tactical Feat and Assassinate DCs
• +4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered.
• +4% Dodge, +4 to Dodge Cap.
• +4 to Reflex Saves.

Has anyone considered spreading these out a few levels? Let's say at level 28 you get to choose your legendary feat.

You then get +2 tactics at lv 28, 1 at 29 & 1 at 30.
You get 1% doublestrike at 28, 2 at 29 & 1 at 30.
You get 1% dodge at 28, 1 at 29 & 2 at 30.
Etc. for all these feats.

Why are they just a massive jump in power only at level 30?

[Nightmanis]

Scion of Arborea like i said, it's a hand me down for elderich knights

Seriously if you think having +20 force spellpower makes this a hand me down then just stop and admit that you have no argument other than you just want something to argue about.

[lyrecono]

Scion of Arborea like i said, it's a hand me down for elderich knights

Seriously if you think having +20 force spellpower makes this a hand me down then just stop and admit that you have no argument other than you just want something to argue about.

Scion of Arborea
+20 Melee and Ranged Power usefull to all melee's and ranged toons
+20 Force Spell Power and +20 Universal Spell Power usefull to elderich knight
+2 to the Enhancement Bonus of your weapon good for everyone (casters, ranged and melee
+4 to Fortitude Saves awesome for arcane casters since those saves suck

all in all, this just screams eld knight to me

don't get me wrong, the 20 mp is awesome, the other attributes in there could have been replaced with mrr to close the gaping wound the armor down update left behind.

Edit, as for your comment, this thread is here because the dev's ask for feedback, exactly what i gave them, if you think the argument is not good, which, due to the language barrier is possible, then make a better one for this position, play the devils advocate, place yourself in the shoes of the melee's and show us what you potentially could come up with.

[mikarddo]

Hey, folks.

Just wanted to let you know that we're planning on adjusting Astral to be:

Scion of the Astral Plane

• +4 to Tactical Feat and Assassinate DCs
• +4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered.
• +4% Dodge, +4 to Dodge Cap.
• +4 to Reflex Saves.

Good for Assassins I reckon but still too weak for anyone else. Please consider adding something more - my wish would be vorpals on 19-20 but there are other possibles as well.

[Blastyswa]

like i said, 8 are caster orientated, 2 are somewhat melee orientated but 1 still has caster components and 1 is somwhat use impaired to most melee's

Are you saying you don't see to which side the scale is tipping?

Some of the caster oriented ones will work just fine for melee. For example, I'm planning to take Scion of Water on my main character, who is playing a paladin. He will gain the usable benefits of 200 spellpoints, 30 spellpower, 10 additional cold spellpower, 20 MRR, and 2d20 cold damage, which can scale off an augment just fine. The caster only benefits that will be useless for him from that destiny are nonexistent. I'm not disputing that these feats can have more benefit for casters (although it'll be debatable based on how much the cold damage scales) but they can also be very useful for melee.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Hey, folks.

Just wanted to let you know that we're planning on adjusting Astral to be:

Scion of the Astral Plane

• +4 to Tactical Feat and Assassinate DCs
• +4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered.
• +4% Dodge, +4 to Dodge Cap.
• +4 to Reflex Saves.

nice improvement.

[sjbb87]

Hey, folks.

Just wanted to let you know that we're planning on adjusting Astral to be:

Scion of the Astral Plane

• +4 to Tactical Feat and Assassinate DCs
• +4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered.
• +4% Dodge, +4 to Dodge Cap.
• +4 to Reflex Saves.

OK... now is good to rogues and monks...
pls change this 4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. to 6% or 8% and 2% if you are centered.
This feat are to all and not to monks and rogues only