Update 29 Feats: Overview

[Steelstar]

Hey folks!

As you've seen from Vargouille's thread, you will have some new advancement options with Update 29. There are quite a few new Feats coming, and in order to keep things organized, we've split the wide variety of Feats into three different threads.

Level 29:
At level 29, you get your third Epic Destiny feat. Like the one you get at level 28, you can pick from any of the previous Epic Destiny feats you qualify for, as well as from a list of new options only available at level 29.
See this thread for details on new Epic Destiny feats!

Level 30:
At level 30, you get a standard feat slot, per the normal feat progression.
You also get your choice of one Legendary Feat. These powerful feats have a variety of effects and a Planar theme.
See this thread for details on Legendary feats!

Other Feats & Changes:
In addition to the level cap increase and its related feats, some new general feats are being added into lower Epic levels to provide additional choices.
See this thread for details on those!

In addition, starting with U29, every Epic Level will grant you the following (similar to the Melee and Ranged power you currently get):

• +6 Universal Spell Power
• 1% discount to the SP cost of your spells

And each Epic Level you have will grant the following to your Hirelings, Pets, and Summoned Creatures:

• +5 Melee & Ranged Power
• +10 Universal Spell Power
• +5 PRR
• +5 MRR

[Atremus]

Steel,

Is the plan for the SP discount to stack with items? If so, thank you!

Quick pass: I like it. Will re-read and comment after my brain is sorted (the celestial one has me all happy)

[DANTEIL]

And each Epic Level you have will grant the following to your Hirelings, Pets, and Summoned Creatures:

• +5 Melee & Ranged Power
• +10 Universal Spell Power
• +5 PRR
• +5 MRR

So this part is really interesting (I use hirelings/summons a lot).

Has any further thought been given to adjusting how vulnerable hirelings are to Champion debuffs etc?

[Blastyswa]

• +6 Universal Spell Power
• 1% discount to the SP cost of your spells

And each Epic Level you have will grant the following to your Hirelings, Pets, and Summoned Creatures:

• +5 Melee & Ranged Power
• +10 Universal Spell Power
• +5 PRR
• +5 MRR

I like the spell changes; 1% might be a little conservative, but spellpower is a good number and 10% cost reduction at level 30, while not likely making Metamagic non-sla spammers very viable, will make them better.

[Avenir]

I'm really looking forward to this update!

[Eddexp]

Divine Spells,Turn Undeaths and Deitys need some revamp/updade/upgrade too.

[Silverleafeon]

In addition, starting with U29, every Epic Level will grant you the following (similar to the Melee and Ranged power you currently get):

• +6 Universal Spell Power
• 1% discount to the SP cost of your spells

Thank you for listening on these two requests!!!



And each Epic Level you have will grant the following to your Hirelings, Pets, and Summoned Creatures:

• +5 Melee & Ranged Power
• +10 Universal Spell Power
• +5 PRR
• +5 MRR

Muchly appreciated, that will help a lot, along with the Legendary feat option for pet lover love, thank you!!!

[Silverleafeon]

I like the spell changes; 1% might be a little conservative, but spellpower is a good number and 10% cost reduction at level 30, while not likely making Metamagic non-sla spammers very viable, will make them better.

Yeah, maybe we can get a 15% discount item someday soon (currently at 10%) to combine for 25% total.
I am assuming the item and epic feat discounts are different types and stack?

[maddong]

Nice work!

[Claver]

And each Epic Level you have will grant the following to your Hirelings, Pets, and Summoned Creatures:

• +5 Melee & Ranged Power
• +10 Universal Spell Power
• +5 PRR
• +5 MRR

Nice!

[SirValentine]

In addition, starting with U29, every Epic Level will grant you the following (similar to the Melee and Ranged power you currently get):

• +6 Universal Spell Power
• 1% discount to the SP cost of your spells

Good.

I assume the SP cost discount stacks with the Enhancement bonus reductions available in Epic Destinies and on current gear, right?

[GroundhogDay]

Sorry but i don't care for any of the changes as i see them, i don't think any of my toons would want/need any of this.

[Vanhooger]

I still not sure how caster wil handle long quest/raid with small amount of shrine (toee) or no shrine (some of the latest raid).

The biggest problem is that maximize & empower is now mandatory on any blue bar, so this imply that mana is burnt very fast and you add in another feat that burn it even faster.

Those feat should apply to class that are depending only on they're bule bar or you will make Warlock even more OP then they are now. At least that are my thoughts.

[Faltout]

I still not sure how caster wil handle long quest/raid with small amount of shrine (toee) or no shrine (some of the latest raid).

The biggest problem is that maximize & empower is now mandatory on any blue bar, so this imply that mana is burnt very fast and you add in another feat that burn it even faster.

Those feat should apply to class that are depending only on they're bule bar or you will make Warlock even more OP then they are now. At least that are my thoughts.

Let's not just throw stuff out there without some testing first. The new feats proposed make a lot of changes favoring a caster. Removing maximum caster level means that this puny little 1st level spell like cold ray that cost a little and did little damage now will deal more damage than polar ray. Spamming that spell will save you a ton of sp while doing some significant damage.
Also consider the spell crit damage increases, the spell power being added and possibly new loot that will further increase caster levels. Maximizing and empowering cold ray is totally useless (since it costs too low sp and you have too much spell power already).

[btolson]

• 1% discount to the SP cost of your spells

I don't think this is really going to change much of anything. SP reductions don't apply to SLAs, which represent the bulk of casting, and rounding error means you're often not going to get the full benefit. A 10% discount on regular spells only is likely going to equate to an overall reduction of about 3-4% when accounting for those factors.


I'm not really sure how to make use of this information right now, but a wizard gains 9% more SP between levels 19 and 20. A sorc gains 8%. I know we can't hand out SP with epic commoner levels because giving thousands of sp to barbs would not be a good idea, but considering that the gain in SP between 19 & 20 is nearly equal to the discount for all 10 epic levels combined, this current discount for epic levels seems way too small to fix the issues with SP that plague casters.


Perhaps part of the fix can come in the form revisiting spell costs and metamagic costs. Spell costs were rebalanced once already (magic missile used to cost 10 sp). It may be appropriate to revisit this again, at least for direct damage spells.

Also, since Maximize now grants a static SP bonus instead of doubling damage, perhaps it should be cheapened to +20 SP, and Empower cheapened to +10 SP. This is probably the best idea for narrowing the gap between SLAs and regular spells, with an aim to make regular spells more worthwhile. I think we are already way too dependent on SLAs, and after the various changes coming with U29, we are set to be even more-so.

[Steelstar]

Steel,

Is the plan for the SP discount to stack with items? If so, thank you!

Yes, both the Spell Power and the SP cost reduction stack with other sources.

[janave]

Warlocks dont need more buffs, they are absurdly overpowered from every possible perspective.
They get to cast:
for free
very fast
in very large AoE
with double spellpower scaling (i know its not effectively x2)
with triple scaling due to crit multiplier

- compared to traditional DDO casters.

Remember the whole balance story started with Casters being OP? We are essentially now back in the start of the loop.

You guys fully get the idea what needs to be buffed or nerfed just not by how much..

[Atremus]

I don't think this is really going to change much of anything. SP reductions don't apply to SLAs, which represent the bulk of casting, and rounding error means you're often not going to get the full benefit. A 10% discount on regular spells only is likely going to equate to an overall reduction of about 3-4% when accounting for those factors.

At level 28 this works out to an 18% discount that is permanent if you wear the Necro Gloves or the Wisdom Hat. We don't know all of the gear options available at 30 so we should wait to see if this number grows. Maybe Epic GS will allow a 30% reduction on a item and 10% from the new epic power? I just want to see all the data before asking for tweaks.

I am happy for the caster stuff.

I have one more question for Steel. On the L21/24 feats. Will be the SP obtained from the feats double on FvS and Sorc? I assume so, but just want to ask.

[Steve_Howe]

Warlocks dont need more buffs, they are absurdly overpowered from every possible perspective.
They get to cast:
for free
very fast
in very large AoE
with double spellpower scaling (i know its not effectively x2)
with triple scaling due to crit multiplier

- compared to traditional DDO casters.

Remember the whole balance story started with Casters being OP? We are essentially now back in the start of the loop.

You guys fully get the idea what needs to be buffed or nerfed just not by how much..

The TYPES of damage a Warlock can do are more limited than a Wizard, for example. Therefore, the additional Spellpower will help them MORE than it helps Warlocks and the 1%/level spellpoint reduction pretty much helps ALL divine and arcane spellcasters EXCEPT Warlock.

I think the proposed +6 spellpower and 1% spellpoint reduction is fine.

[Tlorrd]

The TYPES of damage a Warlock can do are more limited than a Wizard, for example. Therefore, the additional Spellpower will help them MORE than it helps Warlocks and the 1%/level spellpoint reduction pretty much helps ALL divine and arcane spellcasters EXCEPT Warlock.

I think the proposed +6 spellpower and 1% spellpoint reduction is fine.

You're joking right? You really need only two types of spell power in this game to not only survive but thrive and warlocks have those. Light (and evil) and force. The boosts coupled with the level 30 celestial feat will put warlocks as supreme beings. They already get spell crit dmg boosts and will couple that with a feat and spammable AOE attacks. They will continue to be gods. I am a warlock and just telling it how it is.