Update 29: Level 30 Overview

[Hafeal]

Varg -

I like the latest XP curve more than the prior. Nothing you do will make everyone happy - but - thank you for listening and adapting.

+1

So sad, great group bonus done once then laid to the wayside...sad...

Worth repeating. +1

[FranOhmsford]

Here's a modified Epic XP curve that we're considering. Instead of incrementing 150,000 XP extra per level as is currently live, it's only 50,000 (but not so far as 0).

Level	Total XP	XP Per Level
20	-
21	600,000	600,000
22	1,250,000	650,000
23	1,950,000	700,000
24	2,700,000	750,000
25	3,500,000	800,000
26	4,350,000	850,000
27	5,250,000	900,000
28	6,200,000	950,000
29	7,200,000	1,000,000
30	8,250,000	1,050,000

That's much better!

But why 8,250,000 rather than a simple 8 million?

You could knock Lvl 21 down to 500k, Lvl 22 down to 550 and Lvl 30 down to 1 mil to lose that 250k extra that just feels unnecessary to me - 8 million added to the Heroic requirement is a heck of a lot already.

[Qhualor]

I feel the exact same way. Although you need more XP at higher levels, level 20-24 is the real grind. Once you pull out some TF weapons, etc. everything is way more fun, and seems to go way faster. I definitely prefer the revised proposal over the initial one. Way, way, way better.

ive never considered 20-24 any real grind. I can do Von 1-4, ES 1-3, LOD chain and 1 or 2 other low level epic quest chains and be level 24 all on EE. it can actually go fast, but it all depends on how you go about it.

[maddong]

Another way of putting it. Lets pretend it was going to be double xp to get an ETR vs before. Would you come try that game out if you knew you would have to work twice as hard?

It should not be made harder to do any form of TR. we went thru the same talk already when the cap was raised to 25 and the game flourished for a period of time afterwards.

[Blivit]

No comments right now, just formatting more so I can compare easier.

Level	Current XP	Original Proposal	New Proposal XP	New XP Per Level
21	300,000	825,000	600,000	600,000
22	750,000	1,650,000	1,250,000	650,000
23	1,350,000	2,475,000	1,950,000	700,000
24	2,100,000	3,300,000	2,700,000	750,000
25	3,000,000	4,125,000	3,500,000	800,000
26	4,050,000	4,950,000	4,350,000	850,000
27	5,250,000	5,775,000	5,250,000	900,000
28	6,600,000	6,600,000	6,200,000	950,000
29	-	7,425,000	7,200,000	1,000,000
30	-	8,250,000	8,250,000	1,050,000

Better, but there is still more XP required to get through the early levels (when you are less powerful, and thus more slow to progress) than I would like. Propane's proposed curve is still the best compromise so far. It's between the new new proposal and what is currently live. Live is 150k delta per level, new new proposal is 50k per level, Propane's is 100k per level (in between live and new new). Propane's cumulative XP required for each level are much closer to current live values, and thus more preferable. Propane's proposal is also nice in that lvl 25, half way between 20 and 30, is exactly where lvl 25 is currently.

I'd rather have cumulative XP closer to what it is now for the lower levels than have a flatter XP curve. It is OK to require more XP to advance through the higher levels, since the characters are more powerful and can advance more quickly through this higher XP requirement due to greatly increased melee/spell power, feats, EDs, gear, etc. at these higher levels. I don't see a need to have the curve as flat as the new new proposal is.

Level XP
20 -
21 400,000
22 900,000
23 1,500,000
24 2,200,000
25 3,000,000
26 3,800,000
27 4,700,000
28 5,700,000
29 6,800,000
30 8,000,000

[Standal]

Just looking at the numbers, I think the is the perfect table given 8.25 million xp as the cap. Takes the same XP to get to 25 and 26, then 1.05 million for 27 through 30.

Level	Current XP	Old XP Per Level	New Proposal XP	New XP Per Level
21	300,000	300,000	300,000	300,000
22	750,000	450,000	750,000	450,000
23	1,350,000	600,000	1,350,000	600,000
24	2,100,000	750,000	2,100,000	750,000
25	3,000,000	900,000	3,000,000	900,000
26	4,050,000	1,050,000	4,050,000	1,050,000
27	5,250,000	1,200,000	5,100,000	1,050,000
28	6,600,000	1,350,000	6,150,000	1,050,000
29	-	-	7,200,000	1,050,000
30	-	-	8,250,000	1,050,000

[Blivit]

Here's a modified Epic XP curve that we're considering. Instead of incrementing 150,000 XP extra per level as is currently live, it's only 50,000 (but not so far as 0).

I'm going to try to simplify the logic behind the objection to flattening the XP curve too much. I have more fun playing at higher levels than I do at lower levels. I have more cool feats / EDs / gear / dps at higher levels = more fun. High level end-game raids = more fun.

Results of a less-flat XP curve:
Less time at lower levels = more fun
Less time at lower levels = less time ETRing = more fun
More time at higher levels = more fun
More time at higher levels = more time spent in high level raids = more fun
More time at higher levels = more people at higher levels = more raids = more fun

Results of a more-flat XP curve:
More time at lower levels = less fun
More time at lower levels = more time ETRing = less fun
Less time at higher levels = less fun
Less time at higher levels = less time spent in high level raids = less fun
Less time at higher levels = fewer people at high levels = less raids = less fun

more fun = good
less fun = bad

Less-flat XP curve = good good good good good
Flatter XP curve = bad bad bad bad bad

Thus, further flattening of the new new proposed XP curve would = more fun = more good. Please consider un-flattening the new new proposed XP curve even further to be closer to the current live cumulative XP values.

[Robai]

Here's a modified Epic XP curve that we're considering. Instead of incrementing 150,000 XP extra per level as is currently live, it's only 50,000 (but not so far as 0). ...

This is still sad news since will have to spent ages in lvls 20-23 and very short time in lvls 26+.
As someone already suggested, the best way would be just leave the old curve as it was until lvl 28 and then go flat.

[CThruTheEgo]

The new curve looks fine to me, but I was also not opposed to the original proposal.

[Panzerdart]

Here's a modified Epic XP curve that we're considering.

Definitely looks better... Aside from the odd "8,250,000" making me develop OCD.

[bracelet]

Just looking at the numbers, I think the is the perfect table given 8.25 million xp as the cap. Takes the same XP to get to 25 and 26, then 1.05 million for 27 through 30.

Level	Current XP	Old XP Per Level	New Proposal XP	New XP Per Level
21	300,000	300,000	300,000	300,000
22	750,000	450,000	750,000	450,000
23	1,350,000	600,000	1,350,000	600,000
24	2,100,000	750,000	2,100,000	750,000
25	3,000,000	900,000	3,000,000	900,000
26	4,050,000	1,050,000	4,050,000	1,050,000
27	5,250,000	1,200,000	5,100,000	1,050,000
28	6,600,000	1,350,000	6,150,000	1,050,000
29	-	-	7,200,000	1,000,000
30	-	-	8,250,000	1,050,000

There is a typo in your table in the second to last row. But otherwise this is brilliant. The devs should give this some serious consideration. The low levels run the same, and progression through the remaining levels is predictable and consistent. Kudos for a great idea!

(Fix the typo please!)

[Captain_Wizbang]

Early levels still too high.

totally disagree. In fact I think the new curve is too forgiving. Considering most players ETR too fast as is. IMO.

Im all for making the game tougher in every way, and making "end game" levels should be as tough as anything else.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Varg, MANY players left this game because it became too easy.

I applaud your (turbine) communication with the player base, but all too often lately I think you all are being swayed by public opinion a tad too much.

Make Legendary a real end game, and make all these OP'ed builds work for it.

[Ligraph]

I am fine with that, not too much on the high end to discourage me.

Much more concerned about customizing some of the feats.

Agreed.

[Ligraph]

Varg, MANY players left this game because it became too easy.

I applaud your (turbine) communication with the player base, but all too often lately I think you all are being swayed by public opinion a tad too much.

Make Legendary a real end game, and make all these OP'ed builds work for it.

There is a difference between the game being hard, and there being more farming. I personally would much rather have a lower xp curve, like the new proposal, and harder raids/endgame missions, and possibly a longer gear farm for those top-teir items.

[FestusHood]

Here is another analogy to compare to the lost thumbs one.

I often see internet services and cable/satellite tv companies offer introductory prices for new subscribers which are good for one year. After that time period, you will have to pay the normal service price, which is more. The tv companies usually throw in some free movie channels for a few months as well.

Are you upset when your free movie channels expire? Should you be? Are you upset when the special period ends and you have to start paying normal subscription prices? Level 30 is the normal price in ddo. We have been on the special introductory rate till now.

[Captain_Wizbang]

There is a difference between the game being hard, and there being more farming. I personally would much rather have a lower xp curve, like the new proposal, and harder raids/endgame missions, and possibly a longer gear farm for those top-teir items.

Agreed to all except the xp curve. I feel it's part of making the game more challenging.

When we first got Green Steel, it was a rarity to see posts on here "complaining" about the grind to farm ingredients. In fact, it was a BIG part of the draw to get GS items. It made US ALL work together for a common cause. We don't see this anymore. And this is a perfect opportunity to start steering the community towards that once again.

Yes a steeper xp curve, and a bigger demand/reward for grouping is not out of line.

[Robai]

Agreed to all except the xp curve. I feel it's part of making the game more challenging.

When we first got Green Steel, it was a rarity to see posts on here "complaining" about the grind to farm ingredients. In fact, it was a BIG part of the draw to get GS items. It made US ALL work together for a common cause. We don't see this anymore. And this is a perfect opportunity to start steering the community towards that once again.

Yes a steeper xp curve, and a bigger demand/reward for grouping is not out of line.

What grouping are you talking about?
the more Flat XP curve = the less spending time in lvls 26+ = the less grouping

Also what do you mean by challenge?
I'll solo farm lvls 20-23 doing daily XPs only on those toons, and actually play the game with other toons that are lvl 24+ (or heroic toons).

[sjbb87]

Much more concerned about customizing some of the feats.

This....

I know this would work for developers ... but it would be much better if our selves customizing the feats ...
I'd like to follow:

Legendary Feats is no longer is one feat... will be chosen Four feat

Rules:
You can choose more than one feat of one level, however Universal Spell Power does not stack with each other
Feats level 1 stack with level 2
Feats level 2 stack with level 3
....



Legendary Feats Level 1
Requires:level 30

• Caster
• +10 Acid Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power
• +10 Electric Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power
• +10 Fire Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power
• +10 Cold Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power
• +10 Sonic Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power
• +40 Negative Spell Power
• +20 Repair & Rust Spell Power, +20 Universal Spell Power
• +20 Positive, Light, & Alignment Spell Power, +20 Universal Spell Power
• +20 Force Spell Power and +20 Universal Spell Power
• +200 Maximum Spell Points
  
  DPS/tactical
• 4 Dodge
• +4 to Tactical Feat DCs
• 6 Doublestrike
• Permanent Blur
• +2 to all Skills
• 6 Doubleshot
• 2 to the Enhancement Bonus of your weapon
  
  Tank
• 20 PRR
• +20 MRR
• 4 to Reflex Saves.
• +4 to Fortitude Saves
• 4 to Will Saves
  
  summoners
  
• Summoned creatures gain +20 MP, RP, and USP
• Summoned creatures gain +25 PRR and MRR
• Summoned creatures gain +100% Fortification
• Summoned creatures gain a 5% chance to ignore incoming damage entirely. Does not affect any incoming Positive, Negative, or Repair effects.
  

Legendary Feats Level 2
Requires:level 30, feat Legendary Feat Level 1

• Add 2d20 Acid damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)
• Add 2d20 Electric damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)
• Add 2d20 Fire damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)
• Add 2d20 Cold damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)
• Add 2d20 Sonic damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)
• 4 to Dodge Cap
• +10 PRR, +10 MRR
• +20 Healing Amp
• +20 Negative Amp (assuming you take healing from Negative)
• 20 Repair Amplification (assuming you take healing from Repair)
• 4 to Tactical Feat DCs
• 4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot.

Legendary Feats Level 3
Requires:level 30, feat Legendary Feat Level 2

• 2 to the DCs of Conjuration spells
• 2 to the DCs of Evocation spells
• 2 to the DCs of Enchantment spells
• 2 to the DCs of Necromancy spells
• Weapon and Unarmed attacks heal you for 1d6 Positive damage
• Weapon and Unarmed attacks heal 1d6 Negative damage if you are Undead
• Permanent Invisibility Guard, as per the item effect
• +50 Maximum Hit Points
• 20 Melee and Ranged Power

Legendary Feats Level 4
Requires:level 30, feat Legendary Feat Level 3

• Gain: Master Reconstruction, shares cooldown with Communion of Scribing
• +10% Fortification Bypass on weapon and unarmed attacks
• +1 point of Sneak Attack damage for every 2 points of Hide you have
• +2 to the DCs all spells
• +25% Spell Critical Damage with all spells
• +30% Crit Damage with Positive, Light, & Alignment spells
• +100 Maximum Hit Points

This is more fun ...


And at level 4 can add more powerful class skills ...
As DC for assassins
extra rage for barbarians ...
Bane damage to favored enemy
etc....

[Anaximandroz]

Agreed to all except the xp curve. I feel it's part of making the game more challenging.

When we first got Green Steel, it was a rarity to see posts on here "complaining" about the grind to farm ingredients. In fact, it was a BIG part of the draw to get GS items. It made US ALL work together for a common cause. We don't see this anymore. And this is a perfect opportunity to start steering the community towards that once again.

Yes a steeper xp curve, and a bigger demand/reward for grouping is not out of line.

Imo what give sense of achievement are harder quests with real need of strategy, teamwork, etc. Never saw someone bragging "I can repeat x chain 3 times each night without fall sleep". The best time i had in DDO was with the new champions, i was a barb 2nd life soloing Made to order BB with 3 or 4 champs per encounter. I had to restart 3 times, but the feel of finally finishing was great. But dont know if a had to do this over and over if i will just quit or persevere. Also part of the fun in tring is your toon is never the same, even if the quests are.

I wish a more "fast" progression because be around the cap means more options (more quests, raids, gear, groups).