Please critique this Ranger12/Wiz5/Ftr3

[geoffhanna]

The goals of this build:

• Self-sufficient: she self heals, self buffs, even makes her own ammunition
• Flexible: She can range, she can melee, she can throw buffs, she can sneak, she can solo.
• Competent: Able to melee even in EE without embarrassment. Able to effectively use Ranged capability when opportunities arise

And now the build:

Multi-Class Commando
12/5/3 Ranger/Wizard/Fighter
Chaotic Good Halfling


Level Order

1. Ranger . . . . .6. Wizard. . . . .11. Wizard . . . . 16. Ranger
2. Fighter . . . . 7. Ranger. . . . .12. Ranger. . . . .17. Ranger
3. Wizard. . . . . 8. Fighter. . . . 13. Wizard. . . . .18. Ranger
4. Ranger . . . . .9. Wizard. . . . .14. Ranger. . . . .19. Ranger
5. Fighter . . . .10. Ranger. . . . .15. Ranger. . . . .20. Ranger


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt. . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . .6 . . . .6. . . .+3. . . .4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 20 . . . 20. . . .+3. . . .8: DEX
Constitution. . 14 . . . 16. . . .+5. . . 12: DEX
Intelligence. . 12 . . . 14. . . .+5. . . 16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . 10 . . . 12. . . .+4. . . 20: DEX
Charisma. . . . .8 . . . .8. . . .+3. . . 24: DEX
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: DEX

Skills
. . . . . R. F .W. R. F .W. R. F .W. R. W .R .W. R. R. R. R. R. R. R
. . . . . 1. 2 .3. 4. 5 .6. 7. 8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Heal. . . 4. ½ .½. 2. ½ .½. 2. 1 .½. 1. ½ .1 .1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spot. . . 4. . . . 1. . . . 1. ½ . . 2. ½ .1 . . 1. 4. 1. 1. 4. 1. 1. 23
Hide. . . 4. . . . 1. . . . 1. . .½. 2. ½ .1 . . 2. 1. 4. 3. 1. 1. 1. 23
Move Si . 4. . . . 1. . . . 1. . .½. 2. . .1 .½. 2. 2. 2. 3. 2. 1. 1. 23
Balance . 2. ½ .½. ½. ½ .½. ½. ½ .½. ½. ½ .½ .½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
UMD . . . 2. ½ .½. ½. ½ .½. ½. ½ .½. ½. ½ .½ .½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
Jump. . . 4. 1 .½. 1. 1 .½. 2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10
Tumble. . 2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 .3 . 7
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .32. 4 .4. 8. 4 .4. 9. 5 .5. 9. 5 .6 .5. 9 10 10 10 10 10 10
. . . . .32. 4 .4. 8. 4 .4. 9. 5 .5. 9. 5 .9 .5. 9 10 10 10 10 10 10


Feats

.1. . . . : Dodge
.1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
.2 Fighter: Precision
.3. . . . : Mobility
.3 Wizard : Extend Spell
.5 Fighter: Two Weapon Defense
.6. . . . : Spring Attack
.9. . . . : Completionist
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
12 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
13 Wizard : Quicken Spell
15. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
18. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
18 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Lawful Outsider
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Great Ability: Dexterity
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Holy Strike


Spells

Ranger

1. Ram's Might, Resist Energy
2. Cure Light Wounds, Mass Camouflage
3. Cure Moderate Wounds, Wild Instincts

Wizard

1. Shield, Tumble, Detect Secret Doors, Grease
2. Invisibility, Knock, Blur
3. Displacement, Haste

Enhancements (76 of 80 AP)

Halfling (25 AP)

• Halfling Luck, Dexterity, Halfling Luck II, Dexterity II, Halfling Luck III
  
  1. Stealthy III, Acrobatic III, Cunning III
  2. Nimble Reaction III, Halfling Guile
  3. Improved Dodge III, Halfling Guile
  4. Halfling Guile

Deepwood Stalker (5 AP)

• Far Shot
  
  1. Stealthy I, Tendon Cut III, Improved Weapon Finesse

Harper Agent (1 AP)

• Agent of Good I

Eldritch Knight (10 AP)

• Eldritch Strike
  
  1. Improved Mage Armor III, Toughness III
  2. Improved Shield III

Tempest (32 AP)

• Shield of Whirling Steel
  
  1. Improved Reaction II, Improved Defense III, Whirling Blades
  2. Improved Parry III, Improved Dodge II, Whirling Blades
  3. Critical Mastery III, Whirling Blades, Dexterity
  4. Whirling Blades, Dexterity
  5. Dual Perfection

Arcane Archer (3 AP)

• Arcane Archer
  
  1. Conjure Arrows

Destiny (24 AP)

Primal Avatar

1. Ephemeral Evolution III, Rejuvenation Cocoon III, Friends of Nature: Frog
2. Seeking Balance III
3. Balanced Attacks III
4. Symetric Strikes, Summon Dryad Elder
5. Spirit Boon: Physical
6. Nature's Fury: Crit Multiplier, Avatar of Nature

Twists of Fate (26 fate points)

1. Crusade (Tier 4 Crusader)
2. Sacred Ground (Tier 3 Crusader)
3. Consecration (Tier 2 Crusader)

[unbongwah]

My first thought is I think you invested too much in defense and not enough in offense; in particular you're missing some of the best T5 Tempest enhs and you should spend more on DWS.

My second thought, ironically, is I think you missed some of the best defensive options, namely Arcane Barrier from EK and defensive stance. You may also want to consider pal instead of ftr for Div Grace vs two feats. Plus why be a halfling with so many spare feats and not take the healing DM?!

[Basura_Grande]

This is not a good build

[geoffhanna]

This is not a good build

You may be right. But without explaining why, this is not helpful.

My first thought is I think you invested too much in defense and not enough in offense; in particular you're missing some of the best T5 Tempest enhs and you should spend more on DWS.

My second thought, ironically, is I think you missed some of the best defensive options, namely Arcane Barrier from EK and defensive stance. You may also want to consider pal instead of ftr for Div Grace vs two feats. Plus why be a halfling with so many spare feats and not take the healing DM?!

I didn't take the healing Dm because of AP. This build is short of AP. I appreciate your suggestions as to how I might spend them more efficiently.

[unbongwah]

You're short on APs b/c you spent a lot in halfling on maxing out your Dodge bonus. This is a suboptimal choice IMO if it means giving up significant DPS or other forms of survivability (like PRR). Also I'm not sure if Tempest & halfling Imp Dodge bonuses stack, so you might want to do some testing before you TR.

[geoffhanna]

You're short on APs b/c you spent a lot in halfling on maxing out your Dodge bonus. This is a suboptimal choice IMO if it means giving up significant DPS or other forms of survivability (like PRR). Also I'm not sure if Tempest & halfling Imp Dodge bonuses stack, so you might want to do some testing before you TR.

I agree that Dodge < PRR. Which PPR choices did I miss?

Also, I do have the Tempest T5 ability Dual Perfection. Which do you feel are better?

[Basura_Grande]

What Grail said, and go human.

[Grailhawk]

• Craft Shroud clickys for Hast and Displacement and ditch the wizard levels (UMD and scrolls will cover all other spells you have listed)
• You don't spend any AP in Fighter Trees and rangers don't really need that many feat drop Mobility, Spring Attack and Two Weapon Defense.
• Figure out if you like 20 Ranger better or 18/1/1 Ranger/Rogue/x
• IMO you are leaving too much on the table stopping at 12 since what you want is a TWF with a bow Option.
• APs need to be take out of the hafling tree its just not worth it given how much good is in Tempest and Stalker
• You're tier 5 tempest and don't have Dance of Death that's a mistake.
• You're a 12 Ranger and don't have Advanced Sneak Attack from Stalker that's a mistake.
• You're using all your twists to pick up Consecration so that you can be in Primal Avatar that seams backward why not swich to DC and twist in Balanced Attacks from PA leaving 2 free twist slots.

[Grailhawk]

I agree that Dodge < PRR. Which PPR choices did I miss?

Also, I do have the Tempest T5 ability Dual Perfection. Which do you feel are better?

DoD is better as is A thousand Cuts, but once you have invested 30 AP in tempest you should pick up all of them they are all worth more than any other AP you can spend (you can give up Evasive Dance if you don't want to pay for the pre requisite though that makes sense) .

[ValariusK]

Dance of death is really good, and so is 1000 cuts, regardless of which version you pick. Even the +3 hit/damage dual wield is worth the AP you pay for it. Rarely will you have a T5 that isn't worth taking most of the enhancements. Without dance of death, you will lack any significant AE ability. 1000 cuts will give you a significant burst capability OR a significant boost to your sustained dps.

But I guess you've got to ask yourself this: What is this build REALLY bringing to the table that a 20 ranger doesn't?
Displacement on demand is honestly what I see. All the rest is easy enough to fake with umd and potions when required. Maybe what you really would be better off with is a pure ranger who is an elf and has the dragonmarks for displacement. Level 13-20 in ranger now actually represent a meaningful trade off with the latest enhancement pass. They don't suck any more, far from it. Taking 8 levels of not-ranger costs you quite a bit now.

If I were looking to multi a ranger now I'd seriously consider 18 ranger-1 rogue (or arti) and 1 cleric (or fvs). That'd give you cheap divine might and trapping for the price of the level 20 capstone.

[Systern]

You're spreading yourself too thin.

• With 12(14) int and wis, you're not going to have much of an SP pool for the self healing and buffing. Quicken, Extend, and Empowered Healing are going to further decimate that pool.
• With only 5 levels of Wizard, your Haste/Displacement is going to last ~40 seconds base, further chewing into your limited SP pool.
• You're spending a lot of AP in the Halfling tree on augmenting Thrown weapons, but taking Conjure Arrows as well... Do you plan on chucking daggers or using a bow?
• You're investing a lot into Sneak Attack dice without any means to reliably get sneak attacks. No Bluff, no rogue, no Harper Improved Deception.
• The ONLY thing the 3rd Fighter level is going to give you is 1/4 to 1/2 of a BAB point and 4(?) more HP.
• Great Ability: Dexterity is not a Great feat choice. For comparison, Core 1 in the Bard Warchanter tree is +1 Con. 1 Feat slot vs 1 AP... yea, there's gutta be better choices.
• You're skipping most of the T5 Tempest enhancements. Dance of Death and 10,000 Cuts are exceptionally good.

Why are you taking 5 Wizard? Primarily for Haste/Displace? Consider Ranger 12/Bard 7/Fighter 1 instead. Much better synergy with the Warchanter tree plus full ranks of UMD and other bard perks.

Most of the Halfling tree AP spent is optional "oooo that seems nice" stuff, and not actually building towards the core identity of the build. Build to your strengths, shore up your weaknesses, and don't get distracted by random shinies.

[Grailhawk]

Maybe what you really would be better off with is a pure ranger who is an elf and has the dragonmarks for displacement. Level 13-20 in ranger now actually represent a meaningful trade off with the latest enhancement pass. They don't suck any more, far from it. Taking 8 levels of not-ranger costs you quite a bit now..

IMO theres 2 issue with this
1) OP has a halfling fetish he's not likely to change race. (nothing wrong with that just saying its something to keep in mind, OP correct me if i'm wrong?)
2) DM costs too much AP, its much better to craft shroud Items. That said for a new player who does not have access to shroud clickies elf is a good idea as displacement probably is worth more then +8-10 damage you get from Know the Angles.

[Basura_Grande]

IMO theres 2 issue with this
1) OP has a halfling fetish he's not likely to change race. (nothing wrong with that just saying its something to keep in mind, OP correct me if i'm wrong?)
.

Yes there is!

[Grailhawk]

Yes there is!

I don't judge man ...

to each there own.

[geoffhanna]

Thank you for the responses!

Because of this thread I am going to rework the AP

• Load up on Tempest T5 enhancements
• Stalwart Defense from the fighter tree, I meant to do that all along but forgot
• May add Advanced Sneak Attack depending on the answer to a question below.

I am not acting on some of the suggestions. I'll respond to those comments in this code window so people who are not interested can sk1p over it:

I built out a 20 ranger dex build. It looked like it would have fine DPS but die all the time. Totally a glass cannon. Maybe I did it wrong but it seemed really fragile. 

APs may come out of the halfling build in the rework, but the sneak attack dice seem awfully attractive.  

Primal Avatar is providing three key items (cocoon, balanced attacks, symmetric strikes) that I would have to twist in if I was DC. So it is a wash; Avatar of Nature was the tiebreaker

The level 20 capstone is not attractive to me. Am I misreading it? The level 18 capstone is attractive; see below.

Spell point pool does not matter to me. There will be plenty for buffing, with (essentially) infinite more waiting in potions

With Extend, staying hasted/displaced all the time is not only possible, but is actually reasonably convenient

I have no halfling throwing enhancements

I will get sneak attacks with radiance, various blinds, and deception/improved deception on gear

The 3rd fighter level was supposed to get me Stalwart Defense except I forgot it

Great Ability: DEX does suck. But there was no better choice. 

The stuff I am taking from the halflling tree is DEX, saves, and sneak attack dice. How does that distract from the core identity of the build?

I am in a halfling-only guild. Human is not an option.

The most common suggestion was drop the wizard levels and build greensteel clickies for haste and displacement. I don't have the shroud materials; that is not an option. If I want always-on Haste and Displacement this is the only way to get it.

But the level 18 Tempest enhancements are pretty nice. I like the Eldritch Knight AP but I can unlock that with one wiz level. So it boils down to a question of which is better:

+15% melee alacrity
50% incorporeal

or

+5% doublestrike
+10% offhand proc
+5% stacking incorporeal

So, I have three questions:

• Which of the above is better
• What specifically are you suggesting when you say drop Dodge and add PRR
• Does the competence bonus from Advanced Sneak Attack stack with the newly modified Improved Crit feat?

Thanks again everyone! I hope this follow up gets as much attention as the original post, I really would like to know these answers.

[Grailhawk]

There are gear sources for 15% alacrity (you can get 12% with a ML 14 heroic elite item) similarly you can gear for 20% concealment (displacement is not incorporeal its concealment). Look into acquiring gear to cover that and then try and farm 1 Tier 2 shroud item with displacement (If you can take one item to tier 3 you can even cover the 20% always no Concealment (Smoke Item). I've seen your blog posts you have good people (friends) in your guild talk them in to farming shroud parts 1-4 2 or 3 times (complete it on the last run of course) one night a week for a month you'll have more then enough of what you need for at least one displacement Item and so will they (if we are talking level 28 characters it can be short manned very easily hell you could probably due it). Enough meta knowledge of the quests and you will know when to use the clicky and when you can live with the lesser gear option.

I would take Tempest core 18 over a 5 wizard splash in a New York minute.

IMO the only hard choice left when building a Ranger is Capstone or Rogue splash for traps.

I built out a 20 ranger dex build. It looked like it would have fine DPS but die all the time. Totally a glass cannon. Maybe I did it wrong but it seemed really fragile.

IMO 20 ranger is better then 18 ranger because its less of a glass cannon the 10 PRR is the effect in the capstone that sealed that deal for me. Pure tempest should be able to get +17 PRR from tree and another +12 from Stalker tree.

Primal Avatar is providing three key items (cocoon, balanced attacks, symmetric strikes) that I would have to twist in if I was DC. So it is a wash; Avatar of Nature was the tiebreaker

Symmetric Strikes is bugged or mislabeled it does not give a 5% increase to damage, I don't know what it does but its not as good is it sounds. The effects in DC are so much better then the ones in Avatar of Nature that to call it a wash is a mistake and really.

The level 20 capstone is not attractive to me. Am I misreading it? The level 18 capstone is attractive; see below.

You have to be +4 Dex, +25% Offhand double strike (off hand but is the same thing on a ranger do to Dual Perfect and 100% off hand proc rate), +10 Melee Power and +10 PRR I cant see how any one isn't attracted to that.

With Extend, staying hasted/displaced all the time is not only possible, but is actually reasonably convenient

IF the 5 wizard levels was a good idea you would have a point but 5 wizard is just simply a bad idea. (assuming your not just looking to do some kind of flavor build)

The stuff I am taking from the halflling tree is DEX, saves, and sneak attack dice. How does that distract from the core identity of the build?

Its just that the stuff in deep would stalker is better.

I highly recommend you try this build. Before trying a multiclass option.

Finally if you decide to keep down the path that you are one at the very least follow the Enhancement layout of that build (as close as you can given you cant take high cores) for a week before trying your own out.

[Systern]

^^ Everything Grail said and:

You have to be +4 Dex, +25% Offhand double strike (off hand but is the same thing on a ranger do to Dual Perfect and 100% off hand proc rate), +10 Melee Power and +10 PRR I cant see how any one isn't attracted to that.

Don't forget the +10 MRR too! Ya can't get that from EK or SD.

[Thrudh]

12/5/3 Ranger/Wizard/Fighter

My main was a ranger/wizard when the cap was 16 (11/5 Ranger/wizard)

I loved the synergy...

However, there is near-zero reason to splash wizard on a melee for the buffs anymore... Sad but true... Turbine has made the iconic melee/wizard rather pointless.

Spells

Wizard

1. Shield, Tumble, Detect Secret Doors, Grease
2. Invisibility, Knock, Blur
3. Displacement, Haste

See, I too loved self-casting these spells back in the day...

But they are so easily available in clicky form and permanently on gear these days that the wizard levels are pointless...

Well, i guess Shroud displacement clickables might not be so easy to get anymore... so maybe this build could be good again... but I'd probably go elf, skip the wizard levels, and get the displacement dragonmarks instead.

[Thrudh]

The build I'm currently running is 12/5/3 ranger/bard/fighter...

Fairly similar to yours... It's a ranger/arcane mix with fighter levels for stalwart defense, but I'm swashbuckling SWF with a buckler most of the time, although it is possible to use the same build and go TWF with Tempest and Warchanter enhancements instead... Rather fun to switch back and forth with a simple enhancement reset.

[geoffhanna]

This section is for grailhawk and thrudh. I'm putting it in code so everyone else can skip it if they like.

I am just not going to grind the Shroud for a month, again, in 2015. I am just not. Which leaves me having to choose how badly I want always-on displacement. And I want it a lot.

I also want the Stalwart Defense a lot. 

Either one of these argues against a pure 20 build. I looked at the Cuisinart, it is a STR build that is melee only. Very effective at it, I am sure. But I have two other STR-based melee only builds already, and they are both in my regular rotation, and I don't need another. 

I tried building a DEX ranger 20 but did not like the result. And so ... multi class it is. There is no argument in favor of a ranger17/ftr3. If you are not going to have 18 levels there is no reason to have more than 12. meaning I have five levels to spare. So wizard. Because I have to do something with them and it will be fun. I like fun. Not at the expense of the whole build, but I do not believe the five levels are a drain. Or at least, not much of a drain, and they bring some stuff to the table.

Here is another block that is just for grailhawk

Of course you are right about displacement being concealment. I wrote that without checking. Blur and displacement and ghostly and shadow veil and so forth all mingle together in my brain under the heading of "chance to be missed that is not Dodge". I am aware of the difference, It's just that I only care about the specifics when I am calculating stacking.

Thank you all for the many suggestions in this thread. I am reworking the enhancements as follows:

Enhancements (80 of 80 AP)

Halfling (4 AP)

• Halfling Luck, Dexterity, Halfling Luck II

Deepwood Stalker (25 AP)

• Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Exposing Strike, Advanced Sneak Attack
  
  1. Favored Defense II, Stealthy III, Tendon Cut III
  2. Survivalist, Improved Weapon Finesse
  3. Survivalist II, Favored Hunter II, Dexterity
  4. Survivalist III, Dexterity

Tempest (35 AP)

• Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death, Deflect Arrows
  
  1. Improved Defense III, Whirling Blades
  2. Improved Parry III, Bleed Them Out III, Whirling Blades, Haste Boost III
  3. Critical Mastery III, Dexterity
  4. The Growing Storm III, Dexterity
  5. Dual Perfection, A Thousand Cuts, Whirling Blades

Eldritch Knight (10 AP)

• Eldritch Strike
  
  1. Improved Mage Armor III, Toughness III
  2. Improved Shield III

Stalwart Defender (6 AP)

• Toughness, Stalwart Defense
  
  1. Durable Defense III, Stalwart Defensive Mastery I

I am going to have an entire hotbar full of special attacks. I left off Dance of Death because it looks like it agros an AoE and I do not want to be agroing AoEs. And I think the hotbar is already full

For now I am keeping the wizard and fighter levels.

For now I am not worrying about the ED (DC versus PA) choices because I can change that at a whim between quests. But I will start out in DC as you suggest and twist in the PA stuff rather than vice versa.

What do you think? Better? I think it is, I think you all have improved my build and I thank you for it.