Please critique this Ranger12/Wiz5/Ftr3

[cru121]

dance of death is one of the strongest abilities in the game.

[Grailhawk]

This section is for grailhawk and thrudh. I'm putting it in code so everyone else can skip it if they like.

I am just not going to grind the Shroud for a month, again, in 2015. I am just not. Which leaves me having to choose how badly I want always-on displacement. And I want it a lot.

I also want the Stalwart Defense a lot. 

Either one of these argues against a pure 20 build. I looked at the Cuisinart, it is a STR build that is melee only. Very effective at it, I am sure. But I have two other STR-based melee only builds already, and they are both in my regular rotation, and I don't need another. 

I tried building a DEX ranger 20 but did not like the result. And so ... multi class it is. There is no argument in favor of a ranger17/ftr3. If you are not going to have 18 levels there is no reason to have more than 12. meaning I have five levels to spare. So wizard. Because I have to do something with them and it will be fun. I like fun. Not at the expense of the whole build, but I do not believe the five levels are a drain. Or at least, not much of a drain, and they bring some stuff to the table.

Here is another block that is just for grailhawk

Of course you are right about displacement being concealment. I wrote that without checking. Blur and displacement and ghostly and shadow veil and so forth all mingle together in my brain under the heading of "chance to be missed that is not Dodge". I am aware of the difference, It's just that I only care about the specifics when I am calculating stacking.

Thank you all for the many suggestions in this thread. I am reworking the enhancements as follows:

Enhancements (80 of 80 AP)

Halfling (4 AP)

• Halfling Luck, Dexterity, Halfling Luck II

Deepwood Stalker (25 AP)

• Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Exposing Strike, Advanced Sneak Attack
  
  1. Favored Defense II, Stealthy III, Tendon Cut III
  2. Survivalist, Improved Weapon Finesse
  3. Survivalist II, Favored Hunter II, Dexterity
  4. Survivalist III, Dexterity

Tempest (35 AP)

• Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death, Deflect Arrows
  
  1. Improved Defense III, Whirling Blades
  2. Improved Parry III, Bleed Them Out III, Whirling Blades, Haste Boost III
  3. Critical Mastery III, Dexterity
  4. The Growing Storm III, Dexterity
  5. Dual Perfection, A Thousand Cuts, Whirling Blades

Eldritch Knight (10 AP)

• Eldritch Strike
  
  1. Improved Mage Armor III, Toughness III
  2. Improved Shield III

Stalwart Defender (6 AP)

• Toughness, Stalwart Defense
  
  1. Durable Defense III, Stalwart Defensive Mastery I

I am going to have an entire hotbar full of special attacks. I left off Dance of Death because it looks like it agros an AoE and I do not want to be agroing AoEs. And I think the hotbar is already full

For now I am keeping the wizard and fighter levels.

For now I am not worrying about the ED (DC versus PA) choices because I can change that at a whim between quests. But I will start out in DC as you suggest and twist in the PA stuff rather than vice versa.

What do you think? Better? I think it is, I think you all have improved my build and I thank you for it.

Dropping the Wizard thing (sorry if i pushed to hard) but have a few more suggestions.

I'm assuming that you are on the 36pt spread for this toon given that let me make some suggestions drop wisdom down to 10 and bring strength up to 8 this is to help avoid helplessness and exhaustion.

At level 24 I would take Toughness over Greater Ability: Dex, at 28 I would take Toughness for the Destiny feat and then Swap the level 24 Toughness for Epic Toughness.

I would swap Spring Attack for Power Attack, having the option to switch between it and Precision based on what you are fighting is nice.

Do you have access to Harper? If you do drop all ap out of EK and put them in Harper for Know the Angles and extra melee power.

I don't think you will get a meaningful AC on a Ranger even with Mage Armor and Shield (AKA in epic hard you will have enough AC already that you are fine and the little bit of increase from those spells wont really make a huge difference in EE you will even with those two spells still be bellow the ~150 that AC starts to make a difference at)

Tempest
Does not have Whirling Blades Tier 3 or Tier 4 listed but does have it listed in tier 5 that's not possible (not sure if its a bug in the build or you missed the prerequisite). If its a bug Swap the Dex enhancements for the Whirling Blades once they are better in the long run.
Don't take bleed them out there are a lot better places to spend AP on in tempest (Storm Dance or instance)
At least try DoD for a while before giving up on it for good.

Stalker
Tendon Cut is week IMO would rather put points into the Animal Empathy enhancements to get the devotion they give.
Take some of the points out of Dex enhancements and pick up Killer at tier 4.

[geoffhanna]

Dropping the Wizard thing (sorry if i pushed to hard) but have a few more suggestions.

I'm assuming that you are on the 36pt spread for this toon given that let me make some suggestions drop wisdom down to 10 and bring strength up to 8 this is to help avoid helplessness and exhaustion.

At level 24 I would take Toughness over Greater Ability: Dex, at 28 I would take Toughness for the Destiny feat and then Swap the level 24 Toughness for Epic Toughness.

I would swap Spring Attack for Power Attack, having the option to switch between it and Precision based on what you are fighting is nice.

Thanks again!

Do you have access to Harper? If you do drop all ap out of EK and put them in Harper for Know the Angles and extra melee power.

I don't think you will get a meaningful AC on a Ranger even with Mage Armor and Shield (AKA in epic hard you will have enough AC already that you are fine and the little bit of increase from those spells wont really make a huge difference in EE you will even with those two spells still be bellow the ~150 that AC starts to make a difference at)

Tempest
Does not have Whirling Blades Tier 3 or Tier 4 listed but does have it listed in tier 5 that's not possible (not sure if its a bug in the build or you missed the prerequisite). If its a bug Swap the Dex enhancements for the Whirling Blades once they are better in the long run.
Don't take bleed them out there are a lot better places to spend AP on in tempest (Storm Dance or instance)
At least try DoD for a while before giving up on it for good.

Stalker
Tendon Cut is week IMO would rather put points into the Animal Empathy enhancements to get the devotion they give.
Take some of the points out of Dex enhancements and pick up Killer at tier 4.

Character Builder Lite has not been updated since the ranger enhancement pass. I tried to compensate but I think I have a couple of things wrong. I think the Wiki is off on a couple things as well.

The Improved shield is for PRR. Improved Mage Armor is just because it is a prereq. That is also why I have Bleed Them Out; had to fill a point prereq.

No worries about the Wiz levels, I asked for opinions, you feel it strongly, it's all good.

I think it is time to actually build this char and see what happens. I've got several wooden hearts in the bank in various flavors if I have to redo something.

[unbongwah]

Since the goal of this build is to sacrifice DPS for survivability, I have an alternate proposal: swap ftr for pal for the up to +11 to saves from Div Grace, which IMO is more important than the +Dodge from Mobility & Spring Atk or +5 PRR from TWD. I also wanted to invest a bit more into ranged DPS than the OP's original build w/PBS + Combat Archery + Doubleshot.

Half-Pint Commando
12/5/3 Ranger/Wizard/Paladin
Lawful Good Halfling


Level Order

1. Ranger          6. Ranger         11. Paladin        16. Wizard
2. Paladin         7. Ranger         12. Paladin        17. Wizard
3. Ranger          8. Ranger         13. Wizard         18. Ranger
4. Ranger          9. Ranger         14. Wizard         19. Ranger
5. Ranger         10. Ranger         15. Wizard         20. Ranger


Stats
               36pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     --------
Strength         6       +4       4: DEX
Dexterity       20       +4       8: DEX
Constitution    14       +4      12: DEX
Intelligence    16       +4      16: DEX
Wisdom           8       +4      20: DEX
Charisma        12       +4      24: DEX
                                 28: DEX

Skills
          R  P  R  R  R  R  R  R  R  R  P  P  W  W  W  W  W  R  R  R
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Concent   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Search    4     1  1  1  2  1  1  1  1              1  1     3  4  1  23
Spot      4     1  1  1  2  1  1  1  1           1     1  1  5  1  1  23
Diplo     2  3  ½  1½                   4  4  ½  1½ 1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Heal      4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1                    1  6  22
Hide      3     1  1  2  1  1  1  1  2                                13
Move Si   3     1  1  1  2  1  1  1  2                                13
UMD       2     1     1     1     1           2     1     1     1     11
Balance   1                 1  2  1  1                                 6
Jump      2                                                            2
Tumble    1                                                            1
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         36  5  9  9  9  9 10 10 10 10  6  6  6  6  7  7  7 11 11 11


Feats

 1        : Precision
 1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
 2 Deity  : Follower of: Silver Flame
 3        : Point Blank Shot
 6        : Dodge
 6 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
 9        : Improved Critical: Piercing
12        : Improved Critical: Ranged
13 Wizard : Quicken Spell
15        : Empower Healing Spell
17 Wizard : Extend Spell
18        : Least Dragonmark: Healing (or Completionist)
18 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic   : Epic Reflexes
28 Destiny: Doubleshot (or Elusive Target)

Base CHA 12 + 4 tome + 10 item + 2 Insight + 2 shipbuff = 30 (+10 to saves); if you can goose that to 32 to max your DG bonus, well, so much the better.

If feats are tight, APs for Enhancements are tighter. A max-melee-DPS rgr 12+ build is gonna want to spend 60+ APs into DWS+Tempest alone, which doesn't leave a lot of room for other things. So let's look at a couple of possibilities.

This AP spread focuses on survivability will still taking the most important T5 Tempest enhs; it also presumes Least DM of Healing, largely for Gtr DM (Heal) for emergencies.

Enhancements (80 AP)

Halfling (12 AP)

Halfling Luck
Jorasco Dragonmark Focus III, Cunning I
Lesser Dragonmark of Healing, Break out the Leeches, Halfling Guile
Greater Dragonmark of Healing

Tempest (35 AP)

Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death, Deflect Arrows
Improved Reaction III, Whirling Blades
Improved Parry III, Improved Dodge III, Whirling Blades, Haste Boost III
Storm Dancer
Storm Tempest, Elaborate Parry III, The Growing Storm III
Dual Perfection, Dance of Death III

Deepwood Stalker (6 AP)

Far Shot
Favored Defense I, Stealthy III
Improved Weapon Finesse

Sacred Defender (6 AP)

Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
Item Defense I, Durable Defense III

Harper Agent (8 AP)

Agent of Good I
Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
Know the Angles III

Eldritch Knight (Wizard) (13 AP)

Eldritch Strike
Improved Mage Armor III, Item Defense I
Improved Shield III, Martial Training
Arcane Barrier III

I really like Arcane Barrier; IMO it's the best part of EK, since it provides both a free defensive buff and a visual reminder when you need to heal.

By comparison, here's a more DPS-focused AP spread, which ditches halfling & EK enhs for more Tempest & DWS enhs; this version presumes taking Completionist instead of Least DM.

Enhancements (80 AP)

Tempest (40 AP)

Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death, Deflect Arrows
Improved Reaction II, Whirling Blades
Improved Parry III, Improved Dodge II, Whirling Blades, Haste Boost III
Storm Dancer, Critical Mastery I, Whirling Blades
Storm Tempest, The Growing Storm III, Whirling Blades
Dual Perfection, Cuts: Many Cuts III, Whirling Blades, Dance of Death III

Deepwood Stalker (26 AP)

Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Exposing Strike, Advanced Sneak Attack
Favored Defense I, Stealthy III
Survivalist, Faster Sneaking I, Improved Weapon Finesse
Survivalist, Thrill of the Hunt II, Favored Hunter III, Aimed Shot
Survivalist, Killer III

Sacred Defender (6 AP)

Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
Item Defense I, Durable Defense III

Harper Agent (8 AP)

Agent of Good I
Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
Know the Angles III

IMO, Div Crusader is a better ED for a melee/ranged hybrid than Primal Avatar: PA has more innate Ranged / Melee Power; but DC's Celestial Champion + Zeal of the Righteous boosts ranged DPS while only PA's Stormrage affects ranged atks, AFAICT. Add in Blessed Blades for DR-breaking which is a nice perk. The problem with Avatar of Nature is its super-slow attack speed; it works better with a Cleave-centric build, not a TWF build like this. If this was strictly a melee build, then maybe I'd consider PA a better choice.

So one idea for DC setup:

Destiny (24 AP)

Divine Crusader

Bane of Undeath, Interrogation, Purge the Wicked
Consecration III, Flames of Purity I
Sacred Ground, Blessed Blades
No Regret, Crusade
Castigation, Heavenly Presence, Celestial Champion
Strike Down

Twists of Fate (30 fate points)

Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury) or Symmetric Strikes (Tier 4 Primal)
Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
Lithe (Tier 2 Shadowdancer)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)

In hindsight, I should've maxed Spellcraft to boost Consecration's dmg a bit. Oh well...

[Grailhawk]

That is also why I have Bleed Them Out; had to fill a point prereq.

01 AP Core 1
06 AP Whirling Blades, Improved Defense III
07 AP Core 2
15 AP Haste Boost III, Improved Parry III, Whirling Blades
16 AP Core 3
21 AP Whirling Blades, Crit Mastery III
22 AP Core 4
27 AP Whirling Blades, Growing Storm III

need 3 more AP I would drop Crit Mastery down to Rank 2 pick up Storm Dance and its upgrade. That gets you

01 AP Core 1
06 AP Whirling Blades, Improved Defense III
07 AP Core 2
15 AP Haste Boost III, Improved Parry III, Whirling Blades
16 AP Core 3
22 AP Whirling Blades, Crit Mastery II, Storm Dance
23 AP Core 4
30 AP Whirling Blades, Growing Storm III, Storm Tempest

You could take the Dex in place of Storm Dance and Storm Tempest if you want but I would drop Crit Mastery for Storm Dance with that config.

[Saekee]

Geoff, what about adapting Jakeleela's thrower update build to also do melee?
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...me+new+thrower

You could go halfling (just drop the dodge) and use short swords or even Brush hooks for melee. I suggest ToEE set so as a thrower you get the ToEE set from the offhand weapon. The armor has 'lesser displacement' and you can use shadow veil + sting. Defenses are not great, though, but shadow veil adds a layer of defense.

He uses bow and stars; you could do IC: piercing (or slashing for hooks) instead of ranged. So use stars and melee, maybe go wind stance for doublestrike.