Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 40
  1. #1
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    6,393

    Default DWS vs Tempest: what is best for melee?

    Hi,

    I have a semi flavor elven dragonmarket ranger near cap and I am starting to worry about optimization.

    So, the choices are:

    Tier5 in DWS vs Tempest

    Tempest:
    *Full stat damage to off hand + whirlwind blades (at least +13 raw damage)
    *Many cuts (Passive: +2/3/4% Doublestrike, +2/3/4 Melee Power)
    *AoE DPS via dance of death (pretty big point)

    DWS
    *Strikes Like Lightning: You gain +10% Doublestrike and +20% Doubleshot
    *Head Shot: Ranged Attack. +5[W] attack that is automatically considered a critical threat.
    *Extra Favored Enemy: A new forest-dwelling creature type is added to your list of favored enemies.

    I would say that Tempest is way ahead in tier 5s for a dedicated melee.

    Finally the last decision is the capstone

    DWS
    Horizon Shot: You gain +4 Dexterity and +3 Sneak Attack Dice. You are always considered to be in Point Blank Shot and Ranged Sneak Attack range.
    +20 Positive Spell Power
    +20 Melee Power
    +20 Ranged Power

    Tempest
    Dervish: +4 Dexterity. +25% chance to doublestrike with your off-hand while dual wielding. While wearing light or no armor: +10 Melee Power, Physical Resistance Rating, and Magical Resistance Rating.

    It seems to me that even just the 25% DBs + 10 MP already beat the DWS capstone.

    One might argue that DWS retains more of a ranged option, but is it really good to try to fit much of it in a mainly melee ranger anyway? After all ranged should only be during many shot.

    I see (as things stand) a melee DWS behind even in single target DPS compared to a tempest. Am I getting it wrong?

  2. #2
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    2,865

    Default

    Tempest is the better melee tree.

    Stalker has always been the Ranger filler tree. Though looking at it more and more it might be the better archer tree then AA its not better then Tempest for melee.

    Many cuts is inferior to A Thousand cuts though I wouldn't take Many Cuts even if you don't micro manage A Thousand Cuts, saving it for a big wave of mobs and using it at the same time as DoD is to much fun to pass up.

  3. #3
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    6,393

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    Tempest is the better melee tree.

    Stalker has always been the Ranger filler tree. Though looking at it more and more it might be the better archer tree then AA its not better then Tempest for melee.

    Many cuts is inferior to A Thousand cuts though I wouldn't take Many Cuts even if you don't micro manage A Thousand Cuts, saving it for a big wave of mobs and using it at the same time as DoD is to much fun to pass up.
    What I thought. As for a thousand cuts, frankly I dislike those type of clickies. But I agree it is a huge boost and probably a better option than the passive.

    I wonder though, what did the devs have in mind to design DWS? On a melee I really have a hard time thinking who would take it to capstone. So why even pretend? Also the clickies (aside from the sneaky one) are pretty terrible in melee.

    IMHO DWS should be much better single target DPS to at least offer some trade off (yes, I know that single target is hands down worse than AoE). As it stands, I think you are kind of gimping yourself too much to pick DWS, even for flavor.

  4. #4
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    2,865

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    What I thought. As for a thousand cuts, frankly I dislike those type of clickies. But I agree it is a huge boost and probably a better option than the passive.

    I wonder though, what did the devs have in mind to design DWS? On a melee I really have a hard time thinking who would take it to capstone. So why even pretend? Also the clickies (aside from the sneaky one) are pretty terrible in melee.

    IMHO DWS should be much better single target DPS to at least offer some trade off (yes, I know that single target is hands down worse than AoE). As it stands, I think you are kind of gimping yourself too much to pick DWS, even for flavor.
    The idea behind Stalker is its the switch hitter start at range with a bow then switch to melee. Stalker also has the option to pull back and go pure ranged if he gets in a situation where melee is to dangerous unlike a tempest. Rangers are squishier then Fighters, Paladins, and Barbarians Stalker has more ways to mitigate that inherit weakness then tempest dose that's why they are not better single target dps build.

  5. #5
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    6,393

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    The idea behind Stalker is its the switch hitter start at range with a bow then switch to melee. Stalker also has the option to pull back and go pure ranged if he gets in a situation where melee is to dangerous unlike a tempest. Rangers are squishier then Fighters, Paladins, and Barbarians Stalker has more ways to mitigate that inherit weakness then tempest dose that's why they are not better single target dps build.
    Of the two, the option to do some serious ranged melee damage is the only thing I see as useful.

    As I said, outside of many shot, when can it be advantageous for a melee ranger to switch to bow? I mean the synergy is not there in actual gameplay.

    How would that work? Aside from chickening out of battle, what would be an attack sequence for a DWS? Shot for a couple seconds until you reach melee then melee?

    I am just not seeing it :S

    I mean feel free to show me if you think I am missing some part of the gameplay, I admit I am not amazingly familiar with archer hybrids (just use manicotti).

  6. #6
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    2,865

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    Of the two, the option to do some serious ranged melee damage is the only thing I see as useful.

    As I said, outside of many shot, when can it be advantageous for a melee ranger to switch to bow? I mean the synergy is not there in actual gameplay.

    How would that work? Aside from chickening out of battle, what would be an attack sequence for a DWS? Shot for a couple seconds until you reach melee then melee?

    I am just not seeing it :S

    I mean feel free to show me if you think I am missing some part of the gameplay, I admit I am not amazingly familiar with archer hybrids (just use manicotti).

    If you don't need to chicken out of battle there isn't much good reason, but I think you are dismissing chickening out of battle a little to easily. When a mob hits you for 400-600 hp a shot even at 1000k hp that doesn't leave much room for error and not getting hit is a fantastic strategy. Which sounds more fun to you a dead tempest doing 0 dps or a live Stalker who is only doing 2k dps with his bow.

  7. #7
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,102

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    Of the two, the option to do some serious ranged melee damage is the only thing I see as useful.

    As I said, outside of many shot, when can it be advantageous for a melee ranger to switch to bow? I mean the synergy is not there in actual gameplay.

    How would that work? Aside from chickening out of battle, what would be an attack sequence for a DWS? Shot for a couple seconds until you reach melee then melee?

    I am just not seeing it :S

    I mean feel free to show me if you think I am missing some part of the gameplay, I admit I am not amazingly familiar with archer hybrids (just use manicotti).
    Hi,

    If you have the right gear and twists, those first couple of shots from a hybrid can make a big difference.

    Damage your enemies while they come to you, get some CC effects onto the enemy group to break it up a bit, and pick the spot where you will be meleeing instead of going to them.

    If we get more content like EE Necro IV is now in difficulty, this playstyle will really come into its own. But in the zerg-fest we have now for most content, it's much less useful.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by blerkington; 11-12-2015 at 08:43 PM.

  8. #8
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    6,393

    Default

    I see what you guys mean. To me the comment that in the current state of the game it isn't really that great resonates well. I guess that one of my issues would be that even uf quests are harder, a lit of those tricks and plAystyle wouldn't work that well in raids. But that's my self imposed constrAint.

    Thanks for the answers!

  9. #9
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,102

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    I see what you guys mean. To me the comment that in the current state of the game it isn't really that great resonates well. I guess that one of my issues would be that even uf quests are harder, a lit of those tricks and plAystyle wouldn't work that well in raids. But that's my self imposed constrAint.

    Thanks for the answers!
    Hi,

    I do a fair bit of soloing, and that build and style works very well there. It also works well in those PUGs where the other members are all struggling; you are helping them to have fun rather than just killing everything for them. I like the versatility and flavour of it too.

    It also scales quite well to harder content. The recent increase in Necro IV difficulty wasn't a big deal for me, and that's not because I'm a great player or have an invincible character. My main has the tools and approach, rather than just the numbers, to stay safe while killing stuff at a decent pace.

    I was able to solo two of the Necro IV quests on EE post u28 without difficulty which I hadn't gotten around to doing before then, but when I went back later to do it in groups the poor paladin melees were getting slaughtered. Those quests would be even harder on a squishier tempest melee, but then again they may also have been easier on a high DPS ranged build even if it didn't have much CC. CC is a good answer to have for the harder hitting mobs, but unfortunately keeping a safe distance full-time and having a crossbow that works like a submachine gun or a .50 cal sniper rifle is still much better.

    It is a very unsatisfying style for people who want to do the most possible damage and go as fast as possible, and there is a bit of style clash with other people who prefer to play that way. If you're grouping with people who like to rush, you can still pop off a pin and whistler to make some enemies helpless before engaging, you just need to do it close enough so that there's time to switch to melee and get some swings in before the meatgrinders eat up those obviously CC'd mobs.

    It's almost completely pointless in any content on EH or below, solo or in groups, but that is a reflection of state of the game and may yet change. Ha ha ha.

    But even if you don't go this route, there's plenty of good stuff in DWS now for for primarily melee characters who rarely if ever use a bow.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by blerkington; 11-13-2015 at 02:16 AM.

  10. #10
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    6,393

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Hi,

    I do a fair bit of soloing, and that build and style works very well there. It also works well in those PUGs where the other members are all struggling; you are helping them to have fun rather than just killing everything for them. I like the versatility and flavour of it too.

    It also scales quite well to harder content. The recent increase in Necro IV difficulty wasn't a big deal for me, and that's not because I'm a great player or have an invincible character. My main has the tools and approach, rather than just the numbers, to stay safe while killing stuff at a decent pace.

    I was able to solo two of the Necro IV quests on EE post u28 without difficulty which I hadn't gotten around to doing before then, but when I went back later to do it in groups the poor paladin melees were getting slaughtered. Those quests would be even harder on a squishier tempest melee, but then again they may also have been easier on a high DPS ranged build even if it didn't have much CC. CC is a good answer to have for the harder hitting mobs, but unfortunately keeping a safe distance full-time and having a crossbow that works like a submachine gun or a .50 cal sniper rifle is still much better.

    It is a very unsatisfying style for people who want to do the most possible damage and go as fast as possible, and there is a bit of style clash with other people who prefer to play that way. If you're grouping with people who like to rush, you can still pop off a pin and whistler to make some enemies helpless before engaging, you just need to do it close enough so that there's time to switch to melee and get some swings in before the meatgrinders eat up those obviously CC'd mobs.

    It's almost completely pointless in any content on EH or below, solo or in groups, but that is a reflection of state of the game and may yet change. Ha ha ha.

    But even if you don't go this route, there's plenty of good stuff in DWS now for for primarily melee characters who rarely if ever use a bow.

    Thanks.
    I see what you mean. I will give it a try, after all it's not like there is that much to do otherwise at cap.

    As for your comment regarding how in some content it is pointless, I see what you mean and I agree. So far even in high end ee I'm doing fine, but let's see how the new coming end game works out.

    Sadly, the game is built such that a lot of the tactical abilities don't mean a thing in raids.

  11. #11
    Hero Arlathen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,793

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    Tempest is the better melee tree.

    Stalker has always been the Ranger filler tree. Though looking at it more and more it might be the better archer tree then AA its not better then Tempest for melee.

    Many cuts is inferior to A Thousand cuts though I wouldn't take Many Cuts even if you don't micro manage A Thousand Cuts, saving it for a big wave of mobs and using it at the same time as DoD is to much fun to pass up.
    This is spot on.

    I'm also echoing the thoughts on DWS/AA tree. Once you get past giving up Slayer Arrow, having 45% base Doubleshot +20% Doubleshot from Killer from Enhancements is working out on my experimental AA build so far. I've gone for max Wisdom 'DC' build for Para Arrows and I'm planning to run in DC to get my Longbow crits upto 17-20/x4 - Sniper Shot & Headshot should make these some big numbers.

    I might be tempted to post this build, its proving to be a lot more soloable than I could of imagined.
    Last edited by Arlathen; 11-13-2015 at 07:08 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  12. #12
    Hero Arlathen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,793

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    I wonder though, what did the devs have in mind to design DWS? On a melee I really have a hard time thinking who would take it to capstone. So why even pretend? Also the clickies (aside from the sneaky one) are pretty terrible in melee.
    Tbh, in a complete vacuum, DWS does offer quite alot of Single Target DPS over Tempest.
    • +5 Bonus Favoured Enemy Damage
    • Thrill of the Hunt - +3 bonus damage that is easy to keep up
    • Killer - This is very easy to keep running in most quests at 20% Doublestrike/Doubleshot
    • Execute Strike - 500 Damage scaling with Melee Power?
    • HeadStrike - Automatic Crit with +5[W] damage
    • Exposing strike - Auto Bluff for all the Sneak Attack Damage you can pick up
    • 4D6, potentially 7D6 Sneak Damage
    • 20% Fortification Bypass
    • 25 Melee / Ranged Power


    It actually adds up to quite alot.

    Of course, the problem is that any 41AP Tempest is quickly going to dive into DWS and spend another 27AP to get Tier 4s, Killer, Execute Strike and Survivalist 3 anyway! I've personally got my Melee Tempest with 43AP Tempest and 31AP DWS, as I like having Mark of the Hunter.

    The flipside of course is that any DWS that wants to really beef up there own tree can easily spend 41AP DWS and then go and spend 31AP for the level 18 Core. It wont have DoD, ATC or Dual Perfection but it will still have the Crit Multiplier and 100% Offhand attacks.

    If your a Ranger who wants more out of both playstyles of Sword and Bow, then DWS is a very good starting point.
    Last edited by Arlathen; 11-13-2015 at 08:33 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  13. #13
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    6,393

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arlathen View Post
    Tbh, in a complete vacuum, DWS does offer quite alot of Single Target DPS over Tempest.
    • +5 Bonus Favoured Enemy Damage
    • Thrill of the Hunt - +3 bonus damage that is easy to keep up
    • Killer - This is very easy to keep running in most quests at 20% Doublestrike/Doubleshot
    • Execute Strike - 500 Damage scaling with Melee Power?
    • HeadStrike - Automatic Crit with +5[W] damage
    • Exposing strike - Auto Bluff for all the Sneak Attack Damage you can pick up
    • 4D6, potentially 7D6 Sneak Damage
    • 20% Fortification Bypass
    • 25 Melee / Ranged Power


    It actually adds up to quite alot.

    Of course, the problem is that any 41AP Tempest is quickly going to dive into DWS and spend another 27AP to get Tier 4s, Killer, Execute Strike and Survivalist 3 anyway! I've personally got my Melee Tempest with 43AP Tempest and 31AP DWS, as I like having Mark of the Hunter.

    The flipside of course is that any DWS that wants to really beef up there own tree can easily spend 41AP DWS and then go and spend 31AP for the level 18 Core. It wont have DoD, ATC or Dual Perfection but it will still have the Crit Multiplier and 100% Offhand attacks.

    If your a Ranger who wants more out of both playstyles of Sword and Bow, then DWS is a very good starting point.

    I do understand that DWS allows you to still keep some serious damage from bow. But very careful strategies aside (kiting tough mobs, pulling, CCing a bit, and what not), it is hard to imagine the synergy between bow and sword.

    As you said, a melee ranger will already dip into DWS for up to at least killer. So really, the higher tiers are just weaker for a melee than the tempest equivalents and that's most of the difference anyway.

    As for the active abilities, except for the core ones, the others have such a long cool down that it is actually not that noticeable in game. One auto crit? 500 damage, yes, but every how many seconds? How is it that great to slow down a single mob every 15 seconds? It does not even slow the attack speed.

    I do understand where blerk is coming from and I could see how it might be worthwhile if you have some trouble completing content, or even want to help your group. But for the majority of the game it appears to be a pure flavor decision.

    My impression would be that given that the DWS gives up a lot on AoE (basically has non), it would need to pull ahead in single target. But it really does not, its melee is weaker. And coming back to my previous point, archery on a melee seems more of an extra careful approach and not so much like a truly synergistic approach as the game stands.

  14. #14
    Community Member Basura_Grande's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    813

    Default

    There's simply no way to build a melee/AA hybrid like the old Helve's Angel build in the current game is there?

  15. #15
    Community Member CrackedIce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    384

    Default Indeed there still is...

    Quote Originally Posted by Basura_Grande View Post
    There's simply no way to build a melee/AA hybrid like the old Helve's Angel build in the current game is there?
    I have thought long and hard about this myself as the Helves Angel was my first build (with a few alterations of course)

    In my mind, you need to look for the least amount of AP to spend to get to the required melee damage potential. After doing this, you can look around for enhancements that complement both playing styles.

    Bard with swashbuckling is easily the best option. 6 ap for swashbuckling, 11 ap to use buckler, and 17 ap if you want to go for sonic damage on crits. Based on your other AP interests, those are the stopping points. the best part is that you can either be level 3 bard and multiclass from there, or go straight to level 12 and multiclass from there.

    Ranger with Deepwood is by far the best versatile for melee and ranged. I would choose tier 5 over bard's tier 5 any day when making a switch-hitter. Level 6 Ranger is the minimum you want to use since that nets you sniper shot (or the melee alternative).

    So at this point, you are easily putting 36-38 AP into Deepwood.

    The question now becomes where you want to get your evasion from - Ranger 9 or Rogue 2

    So if you choose Rogue 2, you end up with 12 Bard, 6 Ranger, 2 Rogue (If you choose this way, you will not have the feats available for both cleave and shield line, but you may want to go with nothing in your offhand should you be focusing on throwers anyway.)

    If you prefer not to take Rogue and rather have fighter for the necessary feats (You will want to take defensive stance at this point), you will need to be at least 9 Ranger, 3 bard. you have 8 levels to decide how to split up bard and fighter.

    Keep in mind that AA imbues are now really good for elemental damage. Should the throwers be fixed to work with resonant arms and crits from swashbuckling, you have access to an incredible array of damage for throwing.

    As an aside, once you take the deflect arrows enhancement from Swashbuckler, you can take improved defense from tempest to get your deflect arrows to 2 seconds and at that point you spend same amount of ap to get to tempest haste rather than fighter haste.

    Great part of this concept, is that there is no right way to do it as long as you have: swashbuckling, Deepwood tier 5, and evasion. Everything else is a choice between better melee, better ranged, better survivability.

  16. #16
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    2,865

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Basura_Grande View Post
    There's simply no way to build a melee/AA hybrid like the old Helve's Angel build in the current game is there?
    Two builds come to mind the 14/6 Paladin/Ranger and 20 Ranger 41 AP in Stalker.

    15 Paladin is the only way to get +1 Crit T&M on both melee and bow makes which makes it very appealing.

    I think that a 41 AP stalker would capture the spirit of Helve's Angle well, not sure if its as good relatively speaking though back then 12 fighter was not that far from a 20 fighter in melee prowess the little bit of melee Helve's Angle gave up to pick up Slayer Arrows wasn't that big a deal. Giving up Tempest Tier 5 is a lot more then Giving up Kensei III and Capstone back then.

    Stalker capstone is good the Tempest one might be better but +20 MP/RP is not chump change.

    Stalker Tier'5 and gear will get you about 49% DS before Killer, that's a big deal for manyshot where you really want to get to 80% so that you can insure 3 arrows per volley now. IMO thats the key to a new helves angle find a build that is with in 20% of top melee and let it have 80% Dobuleshot so that it gets the 3rd manyshot arrow 100% of the time.

  17. #17
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    2,865

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CrackedIce View Post
    I have thought long and hard about this myself as the Helves Angel was my first build (with a few alterations of course)

    In my mind, you need to look for the least amount of AP to spend to get to the required melee damage potential. After doing this, you can look around for enhancements that complement both playing styles.

    Bard with swashbuckling is easily the best option. 6 ap for swashbuckling, 11 ap to use buckler, and 17 ap if you want to go for sonic damage on crits. Based on your other AP interests, those are the stopping points. the best part is that you can either be level 3 bard and multiclass from there, or go straight to level 12 and multiclass from there.

    Ranger with Deepwood is by far the best versatile for melee and ranged. I would choose tier 5 over bard's tier 5 any day when making a switch-hitter. Level 6 Ranger is the minimum you want to use since that nets you sniper shot (or the melee alternative).

    So at this point, you are easily putting 36-38 AP into Deepwood.

    The question now becomes where you want to get your evasion from - Ranger 9 or Rogue 2

    So if you choose Rogue 2, you end up with 12 Bard, 6 Ranger, 2 Rogue (If you choose this way, you will not have the feats available for both cleave and shield line, but you may want to go with nothing in your offhand should you be focusing on throwers anyway.)

    If you prefer not to take Rogue and rather have fighter for the necessary feats (You will want to take defensive stance at this point), you will need to be at least 9 Ranger, 3 bard. you have 8 levels to decide how to split up bard and fighter.

    Keep in mind that AA imbues are now really good for elemental damage. Should the throwers be fixed to work with resonant arms and crits from swashbuckling, you have access to an incredible array of damage for throwing.

    As an aside, once you take the deflect arrows enhancement from Swashbuckler, you can take improved defense from tempest to get your deflect arrows to 2 seconds and at that point you spend same amount of ap to get to tempest haste rather than fighter haste.

    Great part of this concept, is that there is no right way to do it as long as you have: swashbuckling, Deepwood tier 5, and evasion. Everything else is a choice between better melee, better ranged, better survivability.
    So you are thinking throwers for Ranged not Bow?

  18. #18
    Community Member CrackedIce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    384

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    So you are thinking throwers for Ranged not Bow?
    lol. I was going to edit my post regarding that exact comment, but you beat me to it. You can ignore throwing and go with Bows - you still have Deepwood tier 5 and AA available. That is the beauty of it.

    You can also take build to 12 Ranger, 4 bard and 4 fighter so you can make use of the Deepwood's extended threat range.

    All I am saying is that throwers are easily an added advantage and option since it is so compatible. But I would hesitate to spec feats for it until the swash side of things for throwers are fixed.

  19. #19
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    795

    Default

    Melee centric builds should definately go tempest. Anyone speccing primarily into deepwood stalker should go repeaters or shurikens as the active abilities benefit most from as many hits on activation as possible. I wouldn't bother using a bow unless you have 6 levels of monk even with the recent changes to aa.

  20. #20
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    19,465

    Default

    Theory-crafting ahead: pal 15 / rgr 5 SWF+Manyshot build. Dubya-Tee-Eff?! The premise is doublestrike bonuses are more valuable to SWF than TWF builds; plus if you're TWF, it's really hard to say no to Tempest instead of DWS. So the emphasis of this build is single-target DPS with a burst ranged option.

    Pal 15 is for Zeal + Holy Sword, ofc. Rgr 5 is for two FE feats, 3 free ranged feats, and access to T5 DWS.

    +45% Doublestrike: 10% Zeal + 10% Strikes like Lightning + 20% Killer + 5% PTWF (+95% w/Zeal of the Righteous)
    +50% Doubleshot: 20% Strikes like Lightning + 20% Killer + 10% Doubleshot ED (+220% w/Manyshot +ZotR active)
    +10 Ranged / Melee Power from Imp Archer's Focus + Versatile Adept
    +11 dmg to FEs (4 FEs + Favored Hunter), another +3 from Thrill of the Hunt

    W/out Harper you lose +5 Ranged / Melee Power and +2 FE dmg; but you can put those APs into KotC or Sacred D. instead.

    Downsides: AoE melee DPS is lacking, needs to keep Killer charged, feats are tight, misses out on higher-level rgr goodies, Heavy Draw only affects bows

    Sample build:
    Code:
    Holy Stalker
    15/5 Paladin/Ranger
    Lawful Good Human
    
    
    Level Order
    
    1. Ranger          6. Paladin        11. Paladin        16. Paladin
    2. Paladin         7. Paladin        12. Paladin        17. Paladin
    3. Paladin         8. Paladin        13. Paladin        18. Paladin
    4. Paladin         9. Paladin        14. Paladin        19. Paladin
    5. Ranger         10. Ranger         15. Ranger         20. Ranger
    
    
    Stats
                   34pt     36pt     Tome     Level Up
                   ----     ----     ----     --------
    Strength        16       16       +4       4: STR
    Dexterity       15       15       +4       8: STR
    Constitution    14       14       +4      12: STR
    Intelligence     8       10       +4      16: STR
    Wisdom           8        8       +4      20: STR
    Charisma        16       16       +4      24: STR
                                              28: STR
    
    Skills
              R  P  P  P  R  P  P  P  P  R  P  P  P  P  R  P  P  P  P  R
              1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
             ------------------------------------------------------------
    Concent   4  1     2     2     2           4  1  1     2  1  1  1  1  23
    Heal      4  1     1     1     2              1  3     3  2  3  1  1  23
    Search    4           3              6              5              5  23
    UMD       2  ½  ½     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     11
    Spot      4                          2              2              2  10
    Balance   2     1     1     1     1     1                    ½  ½      8
    Jump      2                                                            2
    Tumble    1                                                            1
             ------------------------------------------------------------
             28  3  3  3  7  3  4  4  4  8  4  4  4  4  9  5  5  5  5  9
    
    
    Feats
    
     1        : Single Weapon Fighting
     1 Human  : Precision
     1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
     2 Deity  : Follower of: Sovereign Host
     3        : Point Blank Shot
     6        : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
     8 Deity  : Unyielding Sovereignty
     9        : Manyshot
    12        : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
    15        : Improved Precise Shot
    18        : Improved Critical: Slashing
    20 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
    24 Epic   : Exotic Weapon: Khopesh
    26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    27 Epic   : Improved Critical: Ranged
    28 Destiny: Doubleshot
    
    
    Enhancements (80 AP)
    
    Human (1 AP)
    
    
    • Damage Boost
    Deepwood Stalker (40 AP)
    • Far Shot, Sneak Attack
      1. Favored Defense I, Stealthy III, Increased Empathy III, Tendon Cut III
      2. Melee/Range Power Boost III
      3. Thrill of the Hunt III, Favored Hunter III, Aimed Shot
      4. Killer III, Merciful Shot, Leg Shot
      5. Extra Favored Enemy: Giant, Heavy Draw, Strikes Like Lightning, Head Shot, Improved Archer's Focus
    Knight of the Chalice (12 AP)
    • Slayer of Evil
      1. Extra Turning II, Extra Smite II
      2. Divine Might I, Exalted Cleave III
      3. Exalted Smite I
    Sacred Defender (13 AP)
    • Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
      1. Extra Lay On Hands III, Durable Defense III
      2. Resilient Defense II
      3. Tenacious Defense III
    Harper Agent (14 AP)
    • Agent of Good I, Charisma
      1. Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
      2. Versatile Adept III
      3. Know Your Foe: Construct, Versatile Adept II
    Destiny (24 AP) Divine Crusader
    1. Bane of Undeath, Endless Turning I, Interrogation, Purge the Wicked
    2. Consecration III
    3. Sacred Ground, Blessed Blades
    4. No Regret, Crusade
    5. Castigation, Heavenly Presence, Celestial Champion
    6. Strike Down
    Twists of Fate (22 fate points)
    1. Haste Boost (Tier 3 Dreadnought)
    2. Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
    3. Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
    4. Extra Action Boost (Tier 1 Dreadnought)
    Khopesh: 15-18/x4 19-20/x5 (Holy Sword + IC:Slash + Celestial Champion + Overwhelming Crit)
    longbow: 17-18/x4 19-20/x5 (Pinion would be 15-18/x4 19-20/x5)

    LD would doubtless be higher DPS than DC, but thematically I like DC more.

    Better DPS than a 15/5 Tempest? No. But it's a change of pace.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 11-18-2015 at 07:28 PM.
    Semi-retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload