Death Metal - a Swashbuckling Barbarian Dwarf

[Fhtagn]

I am somewhat intrigued by the idea of a somewhat durable, swashbuckling barbarian/bard with huge crit multipliers, good hp and at least some group utility. He does not have to solo EE, but should be able to contribute well in 2-3 man parties. That being said, I am pretty much clueless when it comes to current endgame equipment (or current endgame, for that matter.)
So, as a first shot at a decent build on these premises (and I do realise there are probably several glaring mistakes and/or oversights):


Death Metal (working title)
11/5/4 Bard/Barbarian/Fighter
Chaotic Good Dwarf


Level Order

1. Bard . . . . . .6. Barbarian . . .11. Bard. . . . . .16. Bard
2. Bard . . . . . .7. Barbarian . . .12. Bard. . . . . .17. Bard
3. Bard . . . . . .8. Barbarian . . .13. Bard. . . . . .18. Fighter
4. Barbarian . . . 9. Fighter. . . . 14. Bard . . . . . 19. Fighter
5. Barbarian . . .10. Fighter. . . . 15. Bard . . . . . 20. Bard


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt. . .32pt. . .34pt. . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .----. . .----. . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 16 . . . 16 . . . 16 . . . 16. . . .+6. . . .4: CON
Dexterity . . . 11 . . . 12 . . . 14 . . . 14. . . .+6. . . .8: CON
Constitution. . 18 . . . 18 . . . 18 . . . 18. . . .+6. . . 12: CON
Intelligence. . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8. . . .+6. . . 16: CON
Wisdom. . . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8. . . .+6. . . 20: CON
Charisma. . . . 11 . . . 13 . . . 13 . . . 14. . . .+6. . . 24: CON
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: CON

Skills
. . . . .Bd Bd Bd Bn Bn Bn Bn Bn Fi Fi Bd Bd Bd Bd Bd Bd Bd Fi Fi Bd
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4 .5. 6 .7. 8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Perform . 4. 1. 1. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ . . . .5 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .½. . .3 .23
UMD . . . 4. 1. 1. . . . . . . . . . . .1 .5 .4 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1 .2 .23
Balance . 4. 1. 1. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ . . . .1 .3 .1 .4 .1 .½. . . . 20
Tumble. . 4. 1. 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 .1 .4 . . . . . 13
Heal. . . 2. ½. ½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ . . . . . ½. 1. . . . ½ .½. 1. 10
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .20. 5. 5. 3 .3. 3 .3. 3 .2. 2 .6 .6 .6 .6 .7 .7 .7 .3. 3 .7
. . . . .20. 5. 5. 3 .3. 3 .4. 4 .2. 2 .6 .6 .6 .6 .7 .7 .7 .3. 3 .7


Feats

.1. . . . : Single Weapon Fighting
.3. . . . : Force of Personality
.6. . . . : Power Attack
.9. . . . : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
.9 Fighter: Improved Critical: Slashing
10 Fighter: Shield Mastery
12. . . . : Improved Shield Mastery
15. . . . : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
18. . . . : Extend Spell
19 Fighter: Cleave
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Great Cleave
26 Destiny: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Empower Healing Spell
28 Destiny: Lasting Inspiration


Spells

Expeditious Retreat, Master's Touch, Focusing Chant, Feather Fall
Blur, Invisibility, Rage, Heroism
Displacement, Haste, Good Hope, Cure Serious Wounds
Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement, Cure Critical Wounds



Enhancements (80 AP)

Dwarf (18 AP)

Dwarven Toughness, Dwarven Constitution, Dwarven Toughness II, Dwarven Constitution II, Dwarven Toughness III
Axe Training, Dwarven Armor Mastery II
Axe Training
Axe Training
Axe Training, Throw Your Weight Around


Swashbuckler (16 AP)

Confidence, Swashbuckling, Uncanny Dodge
On Your Toes II, Tavern Shanties II
Fast Movement, Double Strike Boost III
Skirmisher


Frenzied Berserker (37 AP)

Die Hard, Frenzied Toughness
Extra Rage III, Die Harder III, Athletics III
Blood Tribute III, Extra Action Boost III, Sprint Boost III
Blood Trail III, Supreme Cleave III, Constitution
Constitution
Focused Wrath II, Accelerated Metabolism, Tantrum


Occult Slayer (9 AP)

Weapon Bond
Extend Rage II, Ear Smash III
Knockout III



Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought

Extra Action Boost III, Constitution
Imp. Power Attack, Constitution
Critical Damage III, Constitution
Anvil of Thunder, Constitution
Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Headman's Chop


Twists of Fate (18 fate points)

Primal Scream (Tier 1 Fury)
Legendary Shield Mastery (Tier 2 Sentinel)
Reign (Tier 3 Fatesinger)



This is a repost from the bard forum, in which I only edited in an actual build a few days after the initial post. I also believe this might be a better place for this.
I very much hope for input, scalding criticism, encouragement and whatever else you can offer - after all, I would very much like to make this guy work.

[Thoden]

Edit-- I see your spell selection and see why you parked it at 11 bard. Not sure how bad you need 4 levels of fighter though, if you aren't using the enhancements. Do you have to have that extra feat? You could go 13 bard/2 fighter/5 barb for 5th level bard spells (GH) if you hate scrolling like I do, or go 12 bard/6 barb/2 fighter for the barb level 6 core (which looks nice, although not a barb player).

Just my thoughts : )

[Fhtagn]

Edit-- I see your spell selection and see why you parked it at 11 bard. Not sure how bad you need 4 levels of fighter though, if you aren't using the enhancements. Do you have to have that extra feat? You could go 13 bard/2 fighter/5 barb for 5th level bard spells (GH) if you hate scrolling like I do, or go 12 bard/6 barb/2 fighter for the barb level 6 core (which looks nice, although not a barb player).

Just my thoughts : )

Thank you for those
All valid points to be sure. I am still unsure as to the last two levels - I need 2 fighter, but I could probably do without the extra feat - Force of Personality or Empower Healing would be the most likely feats to go then, I guess?
So far, I'm Bard 3/Barb 1/Fighter 1, and I still have two +5 hearts, so I can still adapt. There's a reason I'm asking for input

[unbongwah]

T5 FB is generally considered weaker than T5 Ravager, particularly if you're not THF, but I'm presuming you know that. I would really try to add barb 6 for Frenzy; Vicious + 5 Melee Power is kind of a no-brainer, IMHO.

Why so much base STR & CHA if you're going the TYWA route? If you have Harper, I might suggest boosting INT so you can add KtA; not sure what I would drop to squeeze it in. Then use one of your spare feats to take Insightful Reflexes; without Evasion and with the MRR nerf, that would be helpful, IMHO. I'm also not clear on why you backloaded your Cleave feats; or, for that matter, why you skipped Momentum Swing + Lay Waste.

EDIT: since you can't use healing spells / SLAs while Raged, I would consider ditching Emp Heal and adding Consecration + Sacred Ground to your Twists for heals instead.

[cru121]

also gonna recommend barbarian 6, pick up third cores from FB and OS

droppable enhancements:
Dwarf Tough III
Tantrum - too long cooldown, seems meh?
Swash: down to 12 AP (ditch action boost)

7 AP
Consider:
1 AP for FrB 3rd core
2 AP for OS 3rd core
4 AP perhaps for Haste Boost (Kensei) or pick up boost from LD and use AP somewhere (1 con in warchanter, perhaps PRR/MRR in OS..., 1-3 AP in vanguard,..)

[unbongwah]

My inclination for Enhancements : 18 APs dwarf (TYWA), 36 APs FB (Focused Wrath + Raging Blows), 14 APs SB (three cores + Skirmisher + Elegant Footwork), with remaining APs into Ravager or OS. For healing I would twist Sacred Ground + Consecration, same as most barbs; Legendary SM is 3rd Twist, 4th slot (if you have one) can be Primal Scream.

[Fhtagn]

T5 FB is generally considered weaker than T5 Ravager, particularly if you're not THF, but I'm presuming you know that. I would really try to add barb 6 for Frenzy; Vicious + 5 Melee Power is kind of a no-brainer, IMHO.

Thanks, I will definitely stick with Fighter 2 and go for a 6th Barbarian Level as you all recommend. That definitely makes sense.
Ravager T5 is a competence bonus though and thus will not stack with Swashbuckling, which is also a competence bonus (unless I go for a weapon that only influences crit multiplier, but that would make the whole dwarf thing useless and be a completely different build).

Why so much base STR & CHA if you're going the TYWA route?
If you have Harper, I might suggest boosting INT so you can add KtA; not sure what I would drop to squeeze it in. Then use one of your spare feats to take Insightful Reflexes; without Evasion and with the MRR nerf, that would be helpful, IMHO.

I'd love to take KtA, however, I just can't think of how to free up the points.
As for Str & Cha, it was partially for an easier start, partially for UMD and Perform. I probably don't need either, I am, however, unsure where to put the points - boost Dex for AC & Saves?

I'm also not clear on why you backloaded your Cleave feats; or, for that matter, why you skipped Momentum Swing + Lay Waste.

Stupidity. I actually took Cleave at lvl 2 and will take Great Cleave at 6. As for Momentum Swing & Lay Waste, I remembered Lay Waste as being buggy, possibly wrongly.

EDIT: since you can't use healing spells / SLAs while Raged, I would consider ditching Emp Heal and adding Consecration + Sacred Ground to your Twists for heals instead.

To be honest, I never really tried Divine Crusader and simply stuck with what I knew well when chosing twists. I will try those two as twists for sure.

My inclination for Enhancements : 18 APs dwarf (TYWA), 36 APs FB (Focused Wrath + Raging Blows), 14 APs SB (three cores + Skirmisher + Elegant Footwork), with remaining APs into Ravager or OS. For healing I would twist Sacred Ground + Consecration, same as most barbs; Legendary SM is 3rd Twist, 4th slot (if you have one) can be Primal Scream.

Again, thank you for the good advice concerning the Twists. As far as enhancements go, this is pretty much what I had planned, with small adjustments following the input I got here.

Thanks a bunch, guys!

[unbongwah]

As for Momentum Swing & Lay Waste, I remembered Lay Waste as being buggy, possibly wrongly.

They are both kinda flaky; they are also both really useful, especially on a build with 3 Cleave atks.

[Kamode_Corebasher]

My inclination for Enhancements : 18 APs dwarf (TYWA), 36 APs FB (Focused Wrath + Raging Blows), 14 APs SB (three cores + Skirmisher + Elegant Footwork), with remaining APs into Ravager or OS. For healing I would twist Sacred Ground + Consecration, same as most barbs; Legendary SM is 3rd Twist, 4th slot (if you have one) can be Primal Scream.

Going full Constitution and using TYWA, how do you get the "To-Hit" up to a good level?

My experience with a TYWA build == I really noticed more misses and didn't know how to fix...still don't...hoping you do.

[Fhtagn]

They are both kinda flaky; they are also both really useful, especially on a build with 3 Cleave atks.

Noted. Will take both and try them out. It's not as if it hurts. Also: I like cleave.

Going full Constitution and using TYWA, how do you get the "To-Hit" up to a good level?

My experience with a TYWA build == I really noticed more misses and didn't know how to fix...still don't...hoping you do.

I should be fine. Between Ship buffs, Song, Heroism, Rage, Strength Boni, Accuracy item, Weapon Enhancement and Enhancements, it should work out nicely. I hope.

[Kamode_Corebasher]

I should be fine. Between Ship buffs, Song, Heroism, Rage, Strength Boni, Accuracy item, Weapon Enhancement and Enhancements, it should work out nicely. I hope.

I hope so too. I'd appreciate if you would update this thread once you've sat at 28 for a few...note if the misses are 1 in 20 or something more like mine.

Mine was a s&b attempt using dwarven axe, so full BaB...I believe straight pali but its been awhile since I rerolled him...could have had some fighter mixed in.
He did not have bard song, nor rage bonuses, Strength was maybe a +15 modifier, and I cannot remember the class enhancements but I'm sure a few contributed.
He did have a slotted +10 Accuracy item, ship buffs, and good weapon enhancement.
The misses were very noticeable....much more than 1 in 20...more like 3 in 20 when it mattered.

[unbongwah]

The misses were very noticeable....much more than 1 in 20...more like 3 in 20 when it mattered.

I know we all like to assume a 95% hit chance, but...well, why are you assuming you would've had a 95% hit chance had you gone STR-based with the same build?

[unbongwah]

Not convinced this is a better build per se, but let's try a slightly different approach:

Death Metal Too
12/6/2 Bard/Barbarian/Fighter
Chaotic Good Dwarf


Level Order

1. Bard            6. Barbarian      11. Barbarian      16. Bard
2. Bard            7. Fighter        12. Bard           17. Bard
3. Bard            8. Barbarian      13. Bard           18. Bard
4. Barbarian       9. Fighter        14. Bard           19. Bard
5. Barbarian      10. Barbarian      15. Bard           20. Bard


Stats
               36pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     --------
Strength        12       +6       4: CON
Dexterity        8       +6       8: CON
Constitution    20       +6      12: CON
Intelligence    18       +6      16: CON
Wisdom           8       +6      20: CON
Charisma         6       +6      24: CON
                                 28: CON

Feats

 1        : Single Weapon Fighting
 3        : Power Attack
 6        : Shield Mastery
 7 Fighter: Improved Single Weapon Fighting
 9        : Improved Shield Mastery
 9 Fighter: Improved Critical: Slashing
12        : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
15        : Cleave
18        : Great Cleave
21 Epic   : Insightful Reflexes
24 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Lasting Inspiration
27 Epic   :
28 Destiny: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting


Enhancements (80 AP)

Dwarf (18 AP)

Dwarven Toughness, Dwarven Constitution, Dwarven Toughness II, Dwarven Constitution II
Axe Training
Axe Training
Dwarven Runes III, Axe Training
Axe Training, Throw Your Weight Around

Frenzied Berserker (35 AP)

Die Hard, Frenzied Toughness, Frenzy
Extra Rage III, Die Harder III, Athletics III
Blood Tribute III, Extra Action Boost III, Sprint Boost II
Blood Trail III, Supreme Cleave III, Constitution
Constitution
Focused Wrath II, Raging Blows

Swashbuckler (14 AP)

Confidence, Swashbuckling, Uncanny Dodge
On Your Toes I, Tavern Shanties III
Deflect Arrows, Fast Movement
Elegant Footwork, Skirmisher

Harper Agent (13 AP)

Agent of Good I
Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Versatile Adept III, Know the Angles III
Versatile Adept II


Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought

Extra Action Boost III, Constitution
Momentum Swing III, Imp. Power Attack
Lay Waste, Haste Boost III
Anvil of Thunder
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Headman's Chop

Twists of Fate (31 fate points)

Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
Sacred Ground (Tier 3 Crusader)
Consecration (Tier 2 Crusader)
Legendary Shield Mastery (Tier 2 Sentinel)

This build should definitely have higher melee DPS than the first build, as well as higher Reflex saves; downside is dropping Knockout, but you'd have to give up 3 APs SB and 5 APs Harper to squeeze it in, I think. It also has better Reflex saves thanks to high INT + Insightful Reflexes, but the downside is I ditched Will saves; fortunately, FoM protects against Hold spells, so the main concern is Command (use Prot. from Evil) and discoballs (use, umm, running around a lot). And if you really care about Will saves, you could start INT 16 CHA 12 and take FoP as your lvl 27 feat.

EDIT: listed Twists are best-case scenario; drop Grim Precision if you don't have enough Fate pts yet.

[Fhtagn]

This looks good, Unbongwah. I sort of dislike missing out on Knockout, but I certainly wouldn't mind fitting in KtA, Ref being a definite plus. It also means Int becomes a much more interesting stat than Str is in the original build, considering it governs to Hit, Reflex, and skill points and also adds to damage. Nice.
I will use a +0 Heart sooner or later to take this into account. Thanks.

I do not understand why you backloaded the Cleave feats, though

[Kamode_Corebasher]

I know we all like to assume a 95% hit chance, but...well, why are you assuming you would've had a 95% hit chance had you gone STR-based with the same build?

I understand what you're getting at (http://ddowiki.com/page/File:ACHitChance.jpg), but the loss of ~20 points made a noticeable difference to me and made me not happy and in the end rebuild....

So I guess I should still give an answer:
It was a reading comprehension issue on my part...after building the character up, I started digging in to see what was wrong with my build (why was I seeing so many more misses than normal), and in the end found I mis-read TYWA. I saw To Dmg and assumed it affected To Hit.

SO if strength based with TYWA, and I had a 70 str and 40 con, I'd have +30 bonus to my To Hit due to str. and a +30 bonus to my To Dmg due to str.
If constitution based with TYWA, and I had a 40 str and 70 con, I'd have a +15 bonus to my To Hit due to str. and a +30 bonus to my To Dmg due to con.

[unbongwah]

For comparison's sake, here's a human variant using rapiers with rog splash instead of ftr (net loss of 1 feat), fully INT-based, with T5 Ravager instead of T5 FB.

Advantages: Evasion, trap skills, higher Reflex saves, free (albeit weaker) healing from Blood Strength.
Downsides: heroic feat progression is even more of a PITA, not a dwarf

NeuMetal
12/6/2 Bard/Barbarian/Rogue
Chaotic Good Human


Level Order

1. Rogue           6. Barbarian      11. Bard           16. Bard
2. Bard            7. Barbarian      12. Bard           17. Bard
3. Bard            8. Barbarian      13. Bard           18. Bard
4. Bard            9. Barbarian      14. Bard           19. Bard
5. Barbarian      10. Barbarian      15. Bard           20. Rogue


Stats
               36pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     --------
Strength        12       +6       4: INT
Dexterity        8       +6       8: INT
Constitution    18       +6      12: INT
Intelligence    18       +6      16: INT
Wisdom           8       +6      20: INT
Charisma         8       +6      24: INT
                                 28: INT

Feats

 1        : Single Weapon Fighting
 1 Human  : Insightful Reflexes
 3        : Power Attack
 6        : Shield Mastery
 9        : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
12        : Improved Critical: Piercing
15        : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
18        : Improved Shield Mastery
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Cleave
26 Destiny: Lasting Inspiration
27 Epic   : Great Cleave
28 Destiny: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting


Enhancements (80 AP)

Human (1 AP)

Damage Boost

Ravager (36 AP)

Furious Rage, Pain Touch, Demoralizing Success
Do You Like Pain? III, Barbarian Power Attack III, Hardy Rage III
I Like Pain III, Cruel Cut III, Melee Power Boost III
Festering Wound III
I Hit Back! III, Dismember III
Blood Strength, Critical Rage II

Frenzied Berserker (14 AP)

Die Hard, Frenzied Toughness, Frenzy
Extra Rage III, Die Harder II
Extra Action Boost III
Supreme Cleave III

Swashbuckler (13 AP)

Confidence, Swashbuckling
On Your Toes I, Tavern Shanties III
Deflect Arrows, Fast Movement
Elegant Footwork, Skirmisher

Harper Agent (16 AP)

Agent of Good I
Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Versatile Adept III, Know the Angles III
Versatile Adept III, Strategic Combat


Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought

Extra Action Boost III, Constitution
Momentum Swing III, Imp. Power Attack
Lay Waste, Critical Damage II, Haste Boost III
Volcano's Edge
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz

Handaxe w/Focused Wrath + Headman's Chop + Overwhelming Crit + Devastating Crit: 15-18/x3 19-20/x8 (41 effective hits).
Rapier w/Crit Rage + OC + DC: 13-18/x3 19-20/x5 (39 effective hits). Balizarde is 13-18/x4 19-20/x6 (47 effective hits).

[Fhtagn]

For comparison's sake, here's a human variant using rapiers with rog splash instead of ftr (net loss of 1 feat), fully INT-based, with T5 Ravager instead of T5 FB.

Advantages: Evasion, trap skills, higher Reflex saves, free (albeit weaker) healing from Blood Strength.
Downsides: heroic feat progression is even more of a PITA, not a dwarf

Handaxe w/Focused Wrath + Headman's Chop + Overwhelming Crit + Devastating Crit: 15-18/x3 19-20/x8 (41 effective hits).
Rapier w/Crit Rage + OC + DC: 13-18/x3 19-20/x5 (39 effective hits). Balizarde is 13-18/x4 19-20/x6 (47 effective hits).

Add to the downsides: Lower HP, lower Fort (I know, not that important) and slightly lower non-balizarde damage.
It also swaps Anvil of Thunder for Volcanic Edge. And it's not a dwarf! Still, it is useful for comparison's sake.
I do realise my Dwarf would be considered weaker in comparison, but for this life, a dwarf it is.