Level 30 and your Epic TRs

[Uska]

Right, everyone should play like you do. Except that in this case you don't even play for epic lives, so you just want people to play the way you think they should play. Seems legit. Spam this thread more, please.

Wrong I want them to play the way devs intend others don't want to be slowed down a bit in their quest for ever more power and that power increase is actually part of the problem with the game. They want changes done not me

Hmm account made this month and a personal attack possibly trying to bait a response worth an infraction

[RobbinB]

Why does having the cap at 28 so long make it logical to keep ETR there that makes zero sense and sticking to original plan is the only thing that does make sense and yes new players should have to work harder if the goal has been set further,

The original plan does not make sense and it does make sense to leave the amount of xp needed to "earn" the right to epic TR the same as it has been since they introduced it.

Have you ever been part of a points program where lets say you need 80,000 points to get some reward that you are interested in, then when you are around 70,000 points they decide "we changed our minds and these rewards will now cost 150,000 points". The logical response isn't "ok, no problem. I guess I'll just have to wait 3 more years to get the reward I had almost earned."

No I don't have epic completionist I play for fun not to grind nobody has to have past lives but if they want them they should ear them

So up to this date all the people who have been epic tr'ing at 28 haven't really "earned" those past lives?

[Uska]

The original plan does not make sense and it does make sense to leave the amount of xp needed to "earn" the right to epic TR the same as it has been since they introduced it.

Have you ever been part of a points program where lets say you need 80,000 points to get some reward that you are interested in, then when you are around 70,000 points they decide "we changed our minds and these rewards will now cost 150,000 points". The logical response isn't "ok, no problem. I guess I'll just have to wait 3 more years to get the reward I had almost earned."



So up to this date all the people who have been epic tr'ing at 28 haven't really "earned" those past lives?

To much wrong to even comment

[nubbinns]

Wrong I want them to play the way devs intend others don't want to be slowed down a bit in their quest for ever more power and that power increase is actually part of the problem with the game. They want changes done not me

Hmm account made this month and a personal attack possibly trying to bait a response worth an infraction

personal attack? are you okay?

So, you want people to play the way YOU think is right, even though you don't play that way? gotcha. Yeah, about that....

[RobbinB]

If 28 is ETR point then they shouldn't add 29 and 30 and your instant bump to 30 from 28 after doing it once is terrible

Why can't they add 29 and 30 if ETR is at 28? It makes no sense to say that.

There's nothing wrong with having additional levels that simply have to be earned once. I would assume the xp needed wouldn't be trivial, and as I stated there should always be something to "do" with xp earned even when you are level capped (without having to undergo the TR merry-go-round).

What would be terrible is placing epic TR at 28, then having levels 29 and 30 (mythic), but making them need to be regained if you epic tr. This is bad design because it is not equivalent for someone who does all their epic TRs first, then proceeds to level 29 and 30 compared to someone who likes to do a single epic TR then hang out for awhile before starting their next epic TR.

[RobbinB]

To much wrong to even comment

Option A: level cap increases to 30 and epic TR can't be done till you reach level 30
Option B: levels 29 and 30 are introduced, epic TR can still be done at 28

If all players in DDO had to vote on A versus B, then I would vote B. I don't think I would be the only one. Option A is an option and the devs can go ahead and do that but I think it will create bad will with a "significant" portion of the playerbase. That doesn't mean it would be the right or wrong choice, just that I'm not in favour and I think it's a bad choice. Saying Option B is "wrong" and makes no sense (like 2+2 = 5 or something) is not allowing for anyone else to have a different point of view from yours.

[RobbinB]

While this was likely never stated on the forums, the big reason for Reincarnation in the 1st place was to give players something to do BETWEEN content updates. However over time, this has gotted corrupted where content updates are something we are now doing BETWEEN TR's.

This needs to be brought into consideration. TR'ing was introduced to the game when there wasn't really enough content (at any level pretty much) as a way to keep players engaged until more was produced. Now as we reach the end of character vertical progression (from here on out, it should be horizontal, meaning more classes, PRE's and Races etc.), its really time to reduce this grind and get people actually playing content again.

Players may be running your content, but they are not "playing".

Less Grind, More Fun

/peace

Just wanted to say that I have pointed out many times that back when reincarnation was introduced what myself (and I believe many others) were actually asking for is a chance to take our endgame toons and "try out" another class (or react to FOTM due to "balance changes", or whatever) by being able to relevel back to the current level with all new classes/race/feats/sex etc...

The reincarnation system that was introduced was surprising and in some ways brilliant but for myself I fell it never really gave us the original thing hoped for. And this has proven problematic since "balance changes" always leave people with FOTM (or simply older) builds with no way to quickly react to game changes. (Multiple lesser or full TR with need to relevel simply don't cut if for some peeps who are casual players.) If the concept is no one should be forced to play something unfun, then it only makes sense to let players be a single step away from "fixing" their toons based on the "current" game.

I do absolutely agree with you about reducing grind and it's for that reason I don't want epic TR to shift and I don't want new levels to have any hamster-wheel/re-earn levels mechanics. That's not to say that some people won't want those things, I'm just not one of them.

[Uska]

Option A: level cap increases to 30 and epic TR can't be done till you reach level 30
Option B: levels 29 and 30 are introduced, epic TR can still be done at 28

If all players in DDO had to vote on A versus B, then I would vote B. I don't think I would be the only one. Option A is an option and the devs can go ahead and do that but I think it will create bad will with a "significant" portion of the playerbase. That doesn't mean it would be the right or wrong choice, just that I'm not in favour and I think it's a bad choice. Saying Option B is "wrong" and makes no sense (like 2+2 = 5 or something) is not allowing for anyone else to have a different point of view from yours.

You don't get to vote it's happening the only thing that isn't decided i's how much xp it will take but it will be more and if anyone quits over it good riddance don't need whiney babies like that around anyways

[dontmater]

Im semi shocked they would use resources for the Etr change, unless it's something in the programming that makes it easier. glad i got mine done the first 3 weeks. (who are you?.. and why have you rung the bell?) still lingers in the back of my mind from those 3 weeks

[SoulDuster]

Nope. Grandfathering completionist for those who already have it is unfair to the new players who would have to complete additional classes, just like making new players earn more xp for the same epic completionist is unfair. But thanks for making my point for me.

And please kill me before adding Mythic Reincarnations.

I agree completely on losing the feat once you use any form of Reincarnation at cap with the feat.

As far as new players joining the game later and having more xp to acquire epic completionist they have in my opinion be more than adequately compensated by having the xp required to achieve heroic completionist reduced by what 550k per life I have 42 lives at 4.3 mil each. So lets see

43 lives for heroic 3x completionist is 4.3785 mil or about 188 million xp on old xp curve

43 lives on new xp curve is 3.8 mil or about 164 million saving them what 26 million lets say 13.5% reduction in XP needed to achieve the same results

15 lives for heroic x1 Compltionist on old xp curve about 65 million xp

15 lives for heroic x1 on new xp curve is about 57 million xp lets say 13.5% reduction in xp needed to achieve the same results

12 ETR for epic completionist has been 12 lives at 6.6 mil xp lets say 80 million xp

12 ETR for epic compltionoist at for round numbers 7.5 mil xp is 90 million xp hmmm 13.5% increase in XP looks like a very fair trade off in XP to me

My math may not be spot on but it is close enough to show that new players have been more than compensated for joining the game late having some of the edges smoothed out by those of us who joined first. While the system is far from perfect it does seem to be pretty well balanced now by the new heroic and new epic TR xp requirements to me.

I for one give a resounding yes to the new Heroic and Epic XP requirements

[Vooduspyce]

We don't expect level 30 to require 10 million total Epic XP.

Keep the model of 10 mil to cap and just make the ER option remain a ML28 thing. Done.

[Jasparion]

You don't get to vote it's happening the only thing that isn't decided i's how much xp it will take but it will be more and if anyone quits over it good riddance don't need whiney babies like that around anyways

I agree. The developers should continue to ignore the playerbase. That way the numbers can continue to decline and when there is only a few people left the game will be awesome.

No more pesky people giving opinions that differ.

Absolute bliss.

[Uska]

Keep the model of 10 mil to cap and just make the ER option remain a ML28 thing. Done.

No there is zero point in going to,30 if it's not ER and that's what they said they were going to do

[Uska]

I agree. The developers should continue to ignore the playerbase. That way the numbers can continue to decline and when there is only a few people left the game will be awesome.

No more pesky people giving opinions that differ.

Absolute bliss.

I bet nearly zero will quit

[golruul]

You don't get to vote it's happening the only thing that isn't decided i's how much xp it will take but it will be more and if anyone quits over it good riddance don't need whiney babies like that around anyways

I do get to vote, although not the kind of vote you may expect. I, and others, can (and will) vote with our money. A player that spends $1k+ on a free-to-play game has a much, much more influential vote compared to a player that hasn't spent any money on that game. This is reality, and DDO (Turbine) is a business that needs to bring in revenue -- paying customers matter more.

Maybe the staff decides that more XP to ETR/ITR is best for the long-term. That's fine, as it's their call. However, I'm putting in my "vote" and letting them know this decision will cost them at least one consistent stream of revenue (i.e. subscription). What would be acceptable to me is some way of still ETR/ITR at 6 million (or 6.6 million, whatever it is) experience. There are a lot of good suggestions in this thread to make that happen. Heck, if they let VIPs ETR/ITR at 6 million XP as another VIP perk, that would be fine with me, too, but I suspect most won't like that.

As for your "whiney babies" comment, all of the replies I read that were directed at you were coherent, reasonable comments. You should look in the mirror before using that phrase for others.

[Axeyu]

ETR at level 28 when the cap goes up to level 30 is a really bad idea. It will make it far too punishing to not ETR right away and will just further divide the playerbase between those who ETR and those who play at cap.

[RobbinB]

ETR at level 28 when the cap goes up to level 30 is a really bad idea. It will make it far too punishing to not ETR right away and will just further divide the playerbase between those who ETR and those who play at cap.

That assumes any xp earned towards level 29 and 30 will be "lost" upon ETR to 20, which doesn't have to be the case (and shouldn't).

For those hung up on the idea "ETR must be at the Epic Cap" then fine, keep levels 20-28 epic, and simply introduce levels 29 and 30 as "mythic" or "legendary" or "tasty ham" or leave them unnamed. Whatever.

[Axeyu]

That assumes any xp earned towards level 29 and 30 will be "lost" upon ETR to 20, which doesn't have to be the case (and shouldn't).

For those hung up on the idea "ETR must be at the Epic Cap" then fine, keep levels 20-28 epic, and simply introduce levels 29 and 30 as "mythic" or "legendary" or "tasty ham" or leave them unnamed. Whatever.

Arbitrary systems to solve non-issues is even worse.

[Uska]

Either don't add the 2 levels and keep ETR at 28 or add them and move,it to 30 don't add another system

[draven1]

We already have karma xp for ETR.
Just allow ETR when you have level 20+ and 6.6 million karma xp for 1 sphere. Keep it simple