Level 30 and your Epic TRs

[Shoemaker]

Okay... So, I've done the maths...

Level	Current System	Proposed System	Scaled to make new 30 == current 28
Increment =	150K per level	125K per level	101.53846K per level
Base for	level 21	times 2	is increment
21	300,000 / 300,000	250,00 / 250,000	203,077 / 203,077
22	450,000 / 750,000	375,000 / 625,000	304,615 / 507,692
23	600,000 / 1,350,000	500,000 / 1,125,000	406,154 / 913,846
24	750,000 / 2,100,000	625,000 / 1,750,000	507,692 / 1,421,538
25	900,000 / 3,000,000	750,000 / 2,500,000	609,231 / 2,030,769
26	1,150,000 / 4,150,000	875,000 / 3,375,000	710,769 / 2,741,538
27	1,300,000 / 5,450,000	1,000,000 / 4,375,000	812,308 / 3,553,846
28	1,450,000 / 6,600,000	1,125,000 / 5,500,000	913,846 / 4,467,692
29	1,600,000 / 8,200,000	1,250,000 / 6,750,000	1,015,385 / 5,483,077
30	1,750,000 / 9,950,000	1,375,000 / 8,125,000	1,116,923 / 6,600,000

So, my proposal is that they shave 25K off per level (doubled for 21 of course). Using my proposed system, level 29 will still be above the current level 28 (even if only by 150K) and I don't think that 1.375M is too much XP to get from 29 to 30 (it's less than the current 1.45M to get from 27 to 28). This proposal will also make up for some of the XP lost by being unable to bank it waiting for this cap increase.

According to Cordo's live cast on Friday this topic is under discussion with Player's Council as well as internal discussions atm.

Agreed. I think 7.5 million to get to 30 is what it should be.

Aye I agree, but willing to go as high as 8 million (top barter).

Looks like we're cycling back to my proposal of 125K per level increment which is just a shim over 8M (8.125M) per to get to 30. I had actually considered suggesting bumping it to 135K per level increment which would be 8.775M total XP, but the suggestions here that it should be around 7.5M total at about 115K per level has convinced me that my original proposal is just about spot on.

[EllisDee37]

Looks like we're cycling back to my proposal of 125K per level increment which is just a shim over 8M (8.125M) per to get to 30. I had actually considered suggesting bumping it to 135K per level increment which would be 8.775M total XP, but the suggestions here that it should be around 7.5M total at about 115K per level has convinced me that my original proposal is just about spot on.

I could live with your 125k increment plan.

[Iriale]

Or go ahead with the level cap increase and scrap TR etc all together? No?

Sorry many of us want something to do at end game and progressing that does NOT involve regression.

This. We have heroic TR (which works very well) for regression. Repeat the same formula en epics is unimaginative and boooring. Devs should have created the past life feats as “epic mastery feats” instead “past lives feats” and give them for playing in the cap completing raids and quests EH/EE. This could have been a wonderful tool for reactivating the raiding scene. The actual ETR cycle is a stupid and boring cycle.

DDO is the only game that I know that penalises to have a toon in the cap. We need a end game, not other TR system. With the heroic one is enough.

[Iriale]

While that may have been true a few years ago that changed with ETR. Epic Completionist + all PRR, all damage, and all HP lives is more than a little more powerful. It's power addition is enough to break an semblance of class balance.

Ironclan's right on this, too much of this game is designed INTENTIONALLY to not be fun with the gratification delayed. ETRing in off-destinies just plain sucks, put enough stuff in a game like that and we should be shocked at DDO's rate of player attrition.

This. Devs have implementad the whole thing to be boring. Why? A game should be fun. Players leave an unfun game. This is a game, not a job!

Two TR systems, for what? One is enough and great for a change when you are bored of the cap. The other should have been a system for to play in the cap.

[RobbinB]

This is a false equivalence- lack of a temporary benefit does not equal punishment.

The fact is that we've known for some time that this was coming, and the devs are just giving us the courtesy of an explicit warning so we can get a couple of ETRs in before the cap goes up. The same kind of demands for accommodations were made when the level cap went up from 20 to 25 for Cannith Crafting weapons whose ML should have exceeded 20, but was capped. People whined that Turbine had. to. do. something. when they announced that the 1st new base in awhile (Artificer) was released- even though they knew ahead of time that the completionist feat would disappear when new classes came out until they finished the additional life. Turbine did the right thing and stuck to their guns in those instances, and hopefully will again.

This is intellectual dishonesty. You know he is saying he is feeling punished rather than actually thinking the devs are specifically punishing new players just for fun. We all know what he is talking about - doing TR's now translates to less xp needed than doing those same TR's later if the devs stick to their plan. So there will be lack of equivalency for players who are either new or like to take their time versus players who grind out all their past lives now. The fact that "we knew this was coming (assuming not newbie)" doesn't change this point. And "we knew this was coming" does not prevent the devs from exercising logic and changing or modifying their plans.

Hopefully, Turbine does the right thing and modifies their recent plans, returning to their original plan of "DDO being the non-grindy MMO".

[Basura_Grande]

Give me an end game and I won't give a hoot about the XP going up. But if the game is going to remain nothing but TRing/ETRing I suspect you'll have many unhappy customers.

[Uska]

Looks like we're cycling back to my proposal of 125K per level increment which is just a shim over 8M (8.125M) per to get to 30. I had actually considered suggesting bumping it to 135K per level increment which would be 8.775M total XP, but the suggestions here that it should be around 7.5M total at about 115K per level has convinced me that my original proposal is just about spot on.

I think 8 milion or a shade over is a good place to put it .

[BeccaBop]

Has anyone already suggested just making 28 the "ETR cap," allowing people to still just ETR at 28, and ignore how much it takes to get to 30 for TR-type purposes?

There's the "break point" at 20 for heroic TRs. Why not just have another break point at 28 for IconicTR / ETR?

[S3R3N1T7]

when lvl 30 come on this condition

i predict people player decraise 3 month later

you will be happy play on a game with no fun player i think you think ddo is a work not a game lol it's so stupide because game was do for take good time and fun. Sorry i'm not sadomasoshist same more player

[Uska]

Has anyone already suggested just making 28 the "ETR cap," allowing people to still just ETR at 28, and ignore how much it takes to get to 30 for TR-type purposes?

There's the "break point" at 20 for heroic TRs. Why not just have another break point at 28 for IconicTR / ETR?

ETR was always suppose to be cap period!

[RobbinB]

ETR was always suppose to be cap period!

Stop with the ridiculous "ETR has to be at cap" mantra aleady.

ETR at cap is not gravity. It's not a physical law of the universe. It's not like the devs are saying "well, given the much longer time than we first intended to move the cap from 28 to 30 I can see how some people are pointing out that newer players or those slower to ETR will now have a harder path, but....we simply can't do anything about that...we hardwired it into the code that ETR always could only happen at cap....and if anyone tried to change that code we put in a failsafe whereby all the servers would implode....so we'd like to, but we simply can't...it's not possible".

They had an original plan...but plans can and do change. It happens all the time in the real world. Trust me, it does.

[Uska]

Stop with the ridiculous "ETR has to be at cap" mantra aleady.

ETR at cap is not gravity. It's not a physical law of the universe. It's not like the devs are saying "well, given the much longer time than we first intended to move the cap from 28 to 30 I can see how some people are pointing out that newer players or those slower to ETR will now have a harder path, but....we simply can't do anything about that...we hardwired it into the code that ETR always could only happen at cap....and if anyone tried to change that code we put in a failsafe whereby all the servers would implode....so we'd like to, but we simply can't...it's not possible".

They had an original plan...but plans can and do change. It happens all the time in the real world. Trust me, it does.

Its not changing the only question is how much exp is going to cost

[curboUS]

Another way to keep the 6.6mil/eTR is to just remove 6.6mil from the xp the character have when eTR'ing.
That would mean that a lv30 with (let's say) 9.950.000 xp would after etR start at 3.350.000xp (let's call this the eTR starting point).
This would work at lv 32 etc.

When doing an Iconic TR start at lv15 as now, when you hit 20 you are gain the xp needed to get to the eTR starting point.
When a capped TR (say from 30 to 20 and 20 to new life), when you hit 20 you are gain the xp needed to get to the eTR starting point.

This would in effect skip a few epic levels every time we TR from cap. Question is - does it really matter? i dont think so tbh.

For 1rst life character there is a longer way to cap - but only once.

As long as the the game have the eTR cycle i think it should cap the xp required (in this case 6.6mil) regardless of of the actual epic levels in the game.

Obviously just redoing the epic xp-curve to 6.6mil for all epic levels is the best solution imo.
The above suggestion is in case the developers don't want to do that.

[GlassCannon]

ETR was always suppose to be cap period!

Sorry, but that's downright mean.

It's mean to the new folks and those who roll up a new character.

It needs to stay at 28 to be fair to everyone.

[Uska]

Sorry, but that's downright mean.

It's mean to the new folks and those who roll up a new character.

It needs to stay at 28 to be fair to everyone.

No it is cap and that is fair and no even though I have been here forever I don't have epic completionist so I have about as much work as anyone new only less inclination