How to salvage a 9 monk 5 fighter with a lesser +5 Heart of Wood?

[Jyhdif]

I am back to the game after a ~3 year break, and found that my primary character's planned build no longer makes sense (the Emerald 2 12monk/8fighter AC tank). I have tried to make it to 20 to jump into a TR, but I play casually, usually solo, and don't have great finger-eye coordination so it has been a huge pain. Given the monk pass will not likely come any time soon (sometime in 2016?), and the broken crit range just slowed him down even further (by the way, violence begets violence is still working for increasing unarmed crit range!), I am hoping to lesser res him into something that will work with a lesser +5 heart.

He is currently fighter 5, monk 9 and has a ranger past life and is a half elf (+2 universal tome used). I think this means I can either go pure monk (perhaps a non-drow shuricannon?), or retain at least 4 monk levels for something?

My only real hope is that finishing heroic and running occasional 20+ content solo not be a huge pain or time sink/level (I don't mind it taking time to level, I just don't want to have to spend 2 hours in each medium-length quest pulling every mob individually, which is what I have been doing so far).

Right now, I think my options are:

-pure monk monkcher (no drow, but helf for heal scrolls and raise dead) -- I have two other pure monk unarmed builds (I had a monk obsession), so I would prefer to do something ranged wtih this one if pure.
-perhaps another unarmed ranger life with 12 ranger, 5 monk, 7 fighter? Strange split, but necessitated by the +5 heart

Any other ideas would be welcome. I have been scouring the forums for something and have not had a lot of luck within the constraints of my previous build.

edit: forgot to mention I am VIP and don't have favored soul or any of the iconics.

[FranOhmsford]

If you're level 14 then the point is to get to 20 as fast as possible, run Devils Assault on Epic Normal enough times to get 20 tokens, turn them in for a True Heart and TR.

I wouldn't worry about making an Epic capable character this life - The more salient point is what past life do you want?

With 9 Monk and 5 Fighter already you could go:

12 Monk, 6 Paladin, 2 Fighter {Just swap 3 of those Fighter levels for Pally and then you can take 3 Monk and 3 Pally as you level from 14-20.}.

9 Monk, 8 Fighter, 3 Paladin {No need to use the +5 Heart - Just take the 3 Paladin levels at your next 3 lvl ups then finish off with 3 Fighter levels.}.

11 Paladin, 7 Monk, 2 Fighter {Swap out 3 Fighter and 2 Monk Levels for Paladin then take Paladin from here on out.}

8 Fighter, 6 Monk, 6 Ranger 2 weapon fighter {Swap out 3 Monk for Ranger, take Ranger at 15,16,17 and Ftr at 18,19,20}.

That's just a few possibilities to get you either a Monk, Paladin or Fighter past life.

And that gives you 36 pt Build.

[Grailhawk]

The first thing that jumps out to me is a centered kensei (Samurai) build.

With only a +5 hard I would say 12/4/4 Fighter/Monk/Paladin over all build. You would need to switch to weapons you can go TWF or THF or SWF what ever you prefer.

Another option if you are more in to TWF would be 9/8/3 (Monk/Fighter/Ranger) this is very AP tight though (I like calling these Ronin Builds when they have ranger instead of paladin).

If you go Centered Kensei build you want to make sure you get 8 fighter before or at character level 12 so that you can get One with the Blade ASAP so you can remain centered with a focus weapon (SoS, Great Axe, Khopesh, etc). You also want to make sure you order your monk and fighter levels to maximize allocaton of Adept/Master/Grandmaster of Forms Feats. (on a 12/4/4 this isn't a big deal just take 1 monk no later then 12 and if you take it at 12 your level 12, 15, and 18 feats are take up by the stance feats)

Handwraps are too weak right now you need to just given them up.

Monkcher is an option but I wouldn't do that with less then 6 ranger (you want access to sniper shot and other things in Deepwood Stalker IMO) levels and don't really thing a good choice for heroics unless you know what you are doing with archery.

[Grailhawk]

The more salient point is what past life do you want?

This is a good question and should inform your build choice. That said given your origin as a Fighter/Monk 8/2 should more then likly be your build base.

8/2 is versatile and with good weapons choice (SoS, Great Axe, Khopesh, Scimitar, or Rapier) makes a lot of good builds.

[FranOhmsford]

This is a good question and should inform your build choice. That said given your origin as a Fighter/Monk 8/2 should more then likly be your build base.

8/2 is versatile and with good weapons choice (SoS, Great Axe, Khopesh, Scimitar, or Rapier) makes a lot of good builds.

Unfortunately the OP already has 9 {Nine} Monk Levels.

Which means he can't possibly drop to 2 with only a +5 Heart.

8 Monk/2 Fighter is possible but 8 Monk gets you absolutely nothing over 7 if I remember correctly?

More importantly - If he decides on Paladin or Ranger Levels he's going to want at least 3 of either before he gets back in-game at Lvl 14.

[Jyhdif]

The first thing that jumps out to me is a centered kensei (Samurai) build.

With only a +5 hard I would say 12/4/4 Fighter/Monk/Paladin over all build. You would need to switch to weapons you can go TWF or THF or SWF what ever you prefer.

Another option if you are more in to TWF would be 9/8/3 (Monk/Fighter/Ranger) this is very AP tight though (I like calling these Ronin Builds when they have ranger instead of paladin).

If you go Centered Kensei build you want to make sure you get 8 fighter before or at character level 12 so that you can get One with the Blade ASAP so you can remain centered with a focus weapon (SoS, Great Axe, Khopesh, etc). You also want to make sure you order your monk and fighter levels to maximize allocaton of Adept/Master/Grandmaster of Forms Feats. (on a 12/4/4 this isn't a big deal just take 1 monk no later then 12 and if you take it at 12 your level 12, 15, and 18 feats are take up by the stance feats)

Handwraps are too weak right now you need to just given them up.

Monkcher is an option but I wouldn't do that with less then 6 ranger (you want access to sniper shot and other things in Deepwood Stalker IMO) levels and don't really thing a good choice for heroics unless you know what you are doing with archery.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I don't really have a preference for past life. Originally I was obviously going for monk, as back then the generic +2 damage was still worth something, but now I don't really care. I have been playing around with options for the centered kensai concept. My other character uses rapiers for some fun crit range wtih the ninja spy poison, but I have found the poison to be underwhelming without the DC to use poison exploit.

As I noted above, my only real goal with this salvage is to make it to 20 before the end of the year As is, it takes so long to take down mobs that even with some survivability, quests just take too long solo (for me too long is >1.5 hours for "medium" or "long" quests).

I might look at the 12/4/4 you mention. I suppose going uncentered with only 4 levels of monk is not the end of the world (still get improved evasion).

FranOhmsford, do you have any play-style or playability comments for the builds you suggested? I have never played a paladin, so am unclear on how that might synergize with monk levels (besides the cha to saves thing).

[Grailhawk]

I might look at the 12/4/4 you mention. I suppose going uncentered with only 4 levels of monk is not the end of the world (still get improved evasion).

12/4/4 Fighter/Monk/x can be centered do to the Kensei enhancement one with the blade. It takes 9 monk for Improved Evasion.

[Jyhdif]

12/4/4 Fighter/Monk/x can be centered do to the Kensei enhancement one with the blade. It takes 9 monk for Improved Evasion.

Yeah, my mistake. Was looking at my current feats at level 9 monk and didn't correct myself.

I was thinking uncentered more for the armor bonuses than anything, as the stalwart bonuses are quite nice (and require a shield and armor now, as understand it).

[adrian69]

If you're level 14 then the point is to get to 20 as fast as possible, run Devils Assault on Epic Normal enough times to get 20 tokens, turn them in for a True Heart and TR.

I wouldn't worry about making an Epic capable character this life - The more salient point is what past life do you want?

With 9 Monk and 5 Fighter already you could go:

12 Monk, 6 Paladin, 2 Fighter {Just swap 3 of those Fighter levels for Pally and then you can take 3 Monk and 3 Pally as you level from 14-20.}.

9 Monk, 8 Fighter, 3 Paladin {No need to use the +5 Heart - Just take the 3 Paladin levels at your next 3 lvl ups then finish off with 3 Fighter levels.}.

11 Paladin, 7 Monk, 2 Fighter {Swap out 3 Fighter and 2 Monk Levels for Paladin then take Paladin from here on out.}

8 Fighter, 6 Monk, 6 Ranger 2 weapon fighter {Swap out 3 Monk for Ranger, take Ranger at 15,16,17 and Ftr at 18,19,20}.

That's just a few possibilities to get you either a Monk, Paladin or Fighter past life.

And that gives you 36 pt Build.

Or you could just get rid of the 5 ftr levels and go pure monk.

I'd go 12 ftr 6 monk 2 paladin if that's on the table. Psionic Str +8, evasion, centered THF, ninja core 3 with poison weapons, etc. It's not the greatest anymore, but it still gives you something pretty decent to play with in for a level in epic while acquiring token of the twelve. I'm not sure of how you took your classes, so I can't help you when on when to take these feats, but I can give you a good idea. I hoping you took monk levels early, cause I believe these are the better options for those and I going to assume you have. If not you have to many feat to play with anyway.

Heroic Feats

1. Cleave
3. Great Cleave
6.
9. IC: Slash
12. Master of Forms
15. Greater 2Handed Fighting
18. Grandmaster of Forms


Monk Feats
1. Power Attack
2. Two Handed Fighting
3. Fist of Light
6. Either Dodge, Toughness, Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will (Monk Level 6 Needs to be took before 12.)


Fighter:
1. Weapon Focus: Slashing
2. Weapon Specialization: Slashing
4. Improved 2 Handed Fighting
6. Greater Weapon Focus Slashing
8. Greater Weapon Specialization
10. New PRR Feat
12. New PRR feat

It may or may not work out, but I tried to think about where I would have taken 9 monk and 5 ftr and how I'd go about fixing it.

This gets you a centered slashing weapon in the end, so added PRR, +8 melee power, +8 dmg to centered weapon. Tier 4 stance, which after MoF you should be running in earth stance. That gives you +1 to threat range from ftr tier 5 and +1 to crit multiplier.

Stats:
16 str
16 con
16 charisma
if you're a 34 pt build you have 2 points to go wherever. If you're a robot, drop them in constitution. If not, put them wherever you feel best.

Hope this gives someone in the future an idea.

[FranOhmsford]

FranOhmsford, do you have any play-style or playability comments for the builds you suggested? I have never played a paladin, so am unclear on how that might synergize with monk levels (besides the cha to saves thing).

Playstyle is up to you and I wouldn't deign to push you into playing a certain build.

The Fighter/Monk/Ranger build would clearly be best off as either TWF or an Archer depending on which you wanted to play.

The 9 Monk, 8 Fighter, 3 Paladin would be best played as a Centred Kensai {again actual playstyle is up to you but I'd avoid Sword+Board.} - 3 Paladin gets you high saves and a bunch of Lay on Hands for self healing - I wouldn't dump Cha obviously but the Devs have recently changed Divine Grace so you can only get +11 {2+3xPaladin level} to saves from 3 Paladin levels so any Charisma over 32 is wasted.

12 Monk, 6 Paladin, 2 Fighter - Well 2 Fighter is for 2 extra feats {3 if you utilise Tower Shield}, The 6 Paladin levels allow you to go deep into Sacred Defender for defensive stance bonuses and other than that it's again your choice on playstyle.

11 Paladin, 7 Monk, 2 Fighter - Well that's a Paladin past life build, Again Ftr gets you 2-3 extra feats and 7 Monk....Well 7 is the cut-off point that gets you pretty much everything you could want from a Monk splash and as you have 9 Monk levels already and will want to lose 3 of the Fighter levels as well it's a make do build.


You could ask other players to give you a specific build with all Enhancements and Feats laid out for you but I think it's better to play around with those Enhancements yourself - Learn what works for you.

Feats really take themselves once you decide on a melee playstyle:
The Fighting Lines i.e. Shield Mastery/Imp Shield Mastery, TWF/ITWF/GTWF, THF/ITHF/GTHF, SWF/ISWF/GSWF.
Improved Critical of the weapon type you use most - Slashing for Swords etc. {IC: Bludgeon currently doesn't work on Handwraps btw}.
Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave {Cleave and Great Cleave don't need PA as a pre-req any more but PA is nice anyway.}.
Or if you're more Dex based TWF you might prefer Precision, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack.


Toughness isn't the must have feat it once was though - In fact it's pretty much an only take if you have a free slot and nothing else to put in it feat now.

[Jyhdif]

These are some great suggestions. Thanks to all who have contributed!

After looking at the Sacred Defender tree for paladin, I am intrigued. Is there a reason (given the +5 heart limitations of my build) a 9 monk, 6 pally, 5 fighter would not work? I am thinking a THF centered kensai sacred defender in earth stance. If the sacred stance does not require armor or shield, it would seem it could add a lot of prr/mrr to a robe-wearer that would otherwise be quite squishy. My two biggest complaints about my current build are that it has neither sufficient defense nor sufficient damage output to take things down before they hurt. Adding the 6 pally would seem to address both of these.

Obviously there is probably a more ideal level split if I were not constrained by the heart, but this seems like it might work.

[FranOhmsford]

These are some great suggestions. Thanks to all who have contributed!

After looking at the Sacred Defender tree for paladin, I am intrigued. Is there a reason (given the +5 heart limitations of my build) a 9 monk, 6 pally, 5 fighter would not work? I am thinking a THF centered kensai sacred defender in earth stance. If the sacred stance does not require armor or shield, it would seem it could add a lot of prr/mrr to a robe-wearer that would otherwise be quite squishy. My two biggest complaints about my current build is that it has neither sufficient defense nor sufficient damage output to take things down before they hurt. Adding the 6 pally would seem to address both of these.

Obviously there is probably a more ideal level split if I were not constrained by the heart, but this seems like it might work.

You've already got 9 Monk and 5 Fighter levels so how does the Heart constrain you?

You can swap out those 5 Fighter for Pally levels then take 1 more Pally at 15 and 5 fighter from 16-20.
Or you could stay as you are and just take Pally from 15-20.

The issue would be in redoing your enhancements which is an easy plat spend.


As for the build - 5 Fighter Levels is for One with the Blade obviously which means you're going T5 Kensai.
4 Paladin gets you Swift Defense {Pally 5/6 gets you pretty much nothing}.
I think I'd go 10 Monk / 6 Fighter / 4 Pally personally {get Kensai Core 3}

[Hobgoblin]

and fran - fyi you can take a +5 weapon and mech parts and make it in crafting station in house c, not the crafting hall the actual house c

[Jyhdif]

You've already got 9 Monk and 5 Fighter levels so how does the Heart constrain you?

You can swap out those 5 Fighter for Pally levels then take 1 more Pally at 15 and 5 fighter from 16-20.
Or you could stay as you are and just take Pally from 15-20.

The issue would be in redoing your enhancements which is an easy plat spend.


As for the build - 5 Fighter Levels is for One with the Blade obviously which means you're going T5 Kensai.
4 Paladin gets you Swift Defense {Pally 5/6 gets you pretty much nothing}.
I think I'd go 10 Monk / 6 Fighter / 4 Pally personally {get Kensai Core 3}

I was thinking 5 pally for tier 5 "Harbored by Light" and 6 pally potentially for KotC Slayer of Evil II core (although AP might be too tight for this). They both seem a bit better than the kensai core 3. I think I still need to use the heart to re-spec my stat points in order to make this work.

[Feithlin]

I wouldn't use a +5 heart on this. You'd much better go to 20 and TR.

Viable builds, at least for heroic with your split are:
* Centered Kensei M12/F8: you get abundant step and are centered with the weapon category of your choice;
* Centered Kensei M9/F8/P3: you loose abundant step but gain a big boost to saves;
* Centered Kensei M9/F8/C3 or FvS3: you loose abundant step but gain Divine Might.

With these, you should easily reach 20 to farm your tokens and TR.

[Jyhdif]

I wouldn't use a +5 heart on this. You'd much better go to 20 and TR.

Viable builds, at least for heroic with your split are:
* Centered Kensei M12/F8: you get abundant step and are centered with the weapon category of your choice;
* Centered Kensei M9/F8/P3: you loose abundant step but gain a big boost to saves;
* Centered Kensei M9/F8/C3 or FvS3: you loose abundant step but gain Divine Might.

With these, you should easily reach 20 to farm your tokens and TR.

Yeah, I decided to just use a normal lesser heart instead just to re-spec my stats. Unfortunately, I forgot that although "one with the blade" pre-req keen edge only requires fighter level 5, the tier 4 pre-req requires greater weapon focus which is only available at level 8 fighter. Doh! Oh well, at this point I will either suffer through the next 3 levels as either an uncentered THF fighter, an unarmed monk with no TWF feats, or use the +5 after all. Guess that is what I get for rushing and trying to finish this lesser tr tonight

[Nobnarb]

I used a LR +5 to move from 18mnk/2ft unarmed to a 13mnk/5rog/2ftr stick build. I'm having an absolute blast with the stick build compared to my old unarmed (squishier, but things die so much faster).

If you are TRing at 20, you could take next level as ftr, and then end the last 5 with Rogue. This would give you access to T5 Thief Acrobat. If you plan to keep the build for a while, I'd consider using a LR+5 and take 1st level as rogue for the additional skills. Easily able to max Con, Disable, Search, Spot, UMD and have good Jump/Balance/Tumble/OpenLock on first life version with good rogue level placement. You can bypass the LR+5 if you don't care about skillpoints.

Key Feats:
Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Two-Handed Fighting, Improved Two-Handed Fighting, Imp Crit Bludgeon

[Jyhdif]

So I have been playing around with my strange new 9 monk\5 fighter wielding a riftmaker and light armor. This essentially invalidates all 9 levels of monk except for the evasion component as he is uncentered. Even without having the centered kensai tier 5 yet, this character has been performing far better in hard content than the previous unarmed version of this build. Just the additional slight PRR from the light armor makes a significant difference, and the THF feats and cleaves make clearing a bunch of creatures far more certain than before. I was not expecting to see the benefits until I gained the centered enhancement from the kensai tree, but even as is it works better.

I am still going to make him an 8 fighter\6 monk\6 paladin to see how it all synergizes, or doesn't. The fun I have been having with this weird new Frankenstein build almost makes me want to roll up random class mixes for my other character's next lives (perhaps not my main).

I so rarely change any of my builds that using one of the two free +5 hearts at this point will not likely have any impact on me at all down the line. Plus, I somehow have a +20 for this character, perhaps for characters just returning from >3 years ago??

[Grailhawk]

So I have been playing around with my strange new 9 monk\5 fighter wielding a riftmaker and light armor. This essentially invalidates all 9 levels of monk except for the evasion component as he is uncentered. Even without having the centered kensai tier 5 yet, this character has been performing far better in hard content than the previous unarmed version of this build. Just the additional slight PRR from the light armor makes a significant difference, and the THF feats and cleaves make clearing a bunch of creatures far more certain than before. I was not expecting to see the benefits until I gained the centered enhancement from the kensai tree, but even as is it works better.

I am still going to make him an 8 fighter\6 monk\6 paladin to see how it all synergizes, or doesn't. The fun I have been having with this weird new Frankenstein build almost makes me want to roll up random class mixes for my other character's next lives (perhaps not my main).

I so rarely change any of my builds that using one of the two free +5 hearts at this point will not likely have any impact on me at all down the line. Plus, I somehow have a +20 for this character, perhaps for characters just returning from >3 years ago??

Given your current set up as a THF you might try a Quarterstaff to make the monk levels not worthless until you get to 8 Fighter just an fyi centered kensei builds still have to stick with cloth but they pick up PRR from earth stance.

[Jyhdif]

Given your current set up as a THF you might try a Quarterstaff to make the monk levels not worthless until you get to 8 Fighter just an fyi centered kensei builds still have to stick with cloth but they pick up PRR from earth stance.

Yeah, I knew I was going to have to revert to cloth, but would get some back via the iron skin and earth stance. I took all my fighter feats with slashing weapons, so the quarterstaff might not be great at this point. I may pick one up and mess around though. Plus, the 19-20/x4 (with improved crit) on the rift maker puts out some occasional high crits that I am not used to, so it is fun.