New 10k Stars is too powerful

[jakeelala]

I will try to clarify my stance for you and anyone else:

The way the new 10k is designed, it places too much emphasis on Monk levels for Doubleshot, and none for the Ranged Power component.

Monk throwers really are sorely in need of Ranged Power more so than Doubleshot, since they already throw a lot of stars from Dex. They would benefit more if Monk level tied to Ranged Power, instead of Doubleshot. Incrementally, the Ranged Power will do more for them.

Moreover, non 20 Monk, I have more Ranged Power and more Doubleshot than a Monk, so unless 10k provided lots of both, I can ignore it. It now provides lots of both.

It just means that it's not very reasonable to make a thrower without 10k now, and that 20 Monks on a separate level are still very inferior to good splits, and this isn't helping them enough.

[J-mann]

You obviously have no clue what Shuriken Expertise does. Here, let me help you: http://ddowiki.com/page/Shuriken_Expertise . There. All better now? Shuriken Expertise has nothing to do with damage. It has to do with having a chance to throw a second projectile based on your dexterity score. Throwing builds rely more heavily on rate of fire to be competitive because their weapons typically do less damage than even a bow does. So, by changing Shuriken Expertise to be Throwing Expertise, then you make it possible for people using throwing weapons that are not shurikens to achieve a rate of fire that makes those other weapons competitive with using shurikens. I'm galled that you're on the Players Council and didn't even bother to do a modicum of learning before responding to my post. As far as the change I'm advocating, they could even make it a multi-selector so that instead of Throwing Expertise being a single feat letting you get an extra projectile no matter what throwing weapon you're using, they could set it up similar to Improved Critical such that you'd have choices like this:

* Throwing Expertise: Throwing Dagger
* Throwing Expertise: Throwing Hammer
* Throwing Expertise: Throwing Axe
* Throwing Expertise: Dart
* Throwing Expertise: Shuriken

That would make people who want to play a throwing build choose which weapon (or weapons, since they shouldn't be mutually exclusive) they want to focus on. Honestly, if it were set up this way, I would have selected axes and hammers because that's what I really wanted anyway. However, since shuriken throwers can achieve a much higher rate of fire, it makes choosing anything else pointless. Since you aren't familiar with how throwing weapons work, let me educate you a bit further so you fully understand why this change is important.

Let's say we've got a character with 50 dexterity, 35% doubleshot, and a 30% doubleshot action boost. (These are achievable numbers and I don't even have a completionist.) Now, with Shuriken Expertise and using shurikens, this character has a 50% chance to throw another shuriken on every attack. Doubleshot is calculated for each shuriken thrown indepedently. This means that every time this character makes a throwing attack with a shuriken, they have the potential to actually throw four shurikens at once: 2 based on their dexterity, and then another 1 for each of those 2 based on their doubleshot. Now, if that character switches to any other thrown weapon, they have only a 35% chance to throw two projectiles, which can be boosted to 65% for up to about three or four minutes (depending on class split, destiny, twists of fate, and so on). And if you think I'm wrong about the way Shuriken Expertise and doubleshot stack, you should think again. I'm currently running a thrower build and I've seen where I have gotten three or four projectiles thrown. Granted, four is rare since my doubleshot is only 3% right now. However, soon that character will have an unbuffed doubleshot of 33%, boostable to 63%, and his dexterity at level 9 is already around 28. I can see the difference in how much slower my rate of fire is when I switch to a hammer (for skeletons) as compared to when I'm using a shuriken. The only saving grace for the hammer is that skeletons take full damage from that since it's a blunt weapon.

Double strike ONLY procs on the main throw, additionally my testing indicates that Shidari abilities only proc on the main throw or the doublestrike, I tested with ZERO double strike and never saw more than one shidari proc on a throw. Further, I am not certain that on hit chance of a proc abilities can proc on the extra throws, though this one is much more difficult to test for as you cannot see what procced the ability, unlike shidari damage. If what I am seeing is correct, no wonder shidari is a terrible destiny for throwers when it should in fact be a great one (and I am 90 plus percent certain that it is not procing on the additional throws and I am fairly certain that it used to at some point, but its been a VERY long time since ive done shidari, before armor up even).

[hunzi2010]

That's just silly. You have it backwards. Games that are easy like DDO do not survive, not the other way around. And you can see it here too. The decline in population follows the decline in challenge. No one is going to leave because they have nowhere to go. DDO is already the easiest MMO on the market. There's nowhere to go to find even less challenge.

Sorry no I don't have anything backwards, read properly its called sarcasm... and yes the population is already depleting, a lot of my friends have already found other games and canceled their vip subscription.
they are also pushing me to do the same.
Unfortunately (Sev & Cordo please read this) I love this game, and I cant find anything else out there that has the same mouse and keyboard movements. (except for lotro) but none of my friends really play that game.
so I am here. and I want to support the game as much as I can, a lot of you know I have invested around 7k in this game over the past 5 years. yes I pay to win... don't judge me :P +6 tomes on all toons and boxes arnt cheap.....
yep that's right, I don't have much of a life outside of work, but let me tell you drinking is more expensive :P
but if this game has less and less lfm's like it is starting to show then I may also need to look at options of other forms of gaming entertainment.
Not that I want to, but I don't like to solo. I love chatting to people and having a laugh. its a bit hard to do that if nobody is on

[Hephaistor]

At 20 Monk with 42+ Wisdom, it far exceeds it, due to how often it's up (50% of the time). Really Devs? One ability is going to grant that much power but only to a pure class?

It's true. Monk trees, with the exception of Ninja Spy capstone, are objectively terrible for Throwers. It's why you shouldn't go pure class on a monk.

So what exactly is your point? It’s a bad thing that the new 10k stars gets better with more monk levels BECAUSE the monk trees don’t offer much for throwers? You advise against pure monk thrower builds and the DEVS should change their pass so your advice keeps its point?

A better 10k stars from more/full monk levels OR more power from splashing seems to be a good thing to me. And I still like the idea that 10k stars could be a situational useful feat for pure melee monks too.

I will try to clarify my stance for you and anyone else.. - headline: New 10k Stars is too powerful

Is think we all exactly understood what your "stance" was when you made this threat. Perhaps you start with: "Let's disscuss the new 10k stars" next time and stay open for arguments and other points of few?

[Strider1963]

#Imstill****edaboutmanyshotchanges

So am I, after all, who doesn't wanna be a Legolas?... Manyshot has been this way forever, why nerf now? Even with 4 arrows, it was far inferior to an Artys ranged damage (not even counting runearm, spells, and doggie).

[stricek]

If you've got Shuriken Expertise, based on my reading of the feat's description, you only get a chance to throw one extra shuriken per attack. So, you've got a 70% chance to throw two shurikens. I don't believe Shuriken Expertise is like 10k Stars where you can get more than 2 shurikens thrown per attack if your wisdom is high enough. I know I'm seeing the number of three and four shurikens thrown by my thrower that I would expect based on his doubleshot chance (they're both quite rare for me right now since I have only 3% doubleshot). From what I've observed, your doubleshot is applied to every shuriken thrown where the throw wasn't caused by doubleshot.

When it comes to repeaters, they are supposed to (and, as of tomorrow, will) have a reduced chance for extra shots. The calculation will be (and was always supposed to be) your doubleshot chance divided by three. So, with 35% doubleshot, each bolt fired from a repeating crossbow would have an 11% chance to fire a second bolt. Until now, each bolt was getting the full 35% chance and this (as I understand it) will be fixed as of the patch tomorrow.

Here are my facts:
2 feats that cause extra shuriken throw
35% DS from EPLs, Enhancments, gear...
70dex

Why cant i get more then 4 shurikens?
I am under the asumption that if DS happens each of those 2 shurikens would have 70% chance(from dex) to throw an additional shuriken...
But then again you and I can only asume how it works. I would like devs' official statement about this.
Cause if 4 is max then repeaters have better chance to shot more projectiles...and since they do far more damage per projectile it doesnt make sense!