Are any of you dropping TWF when the balancing changes go live?

[daniel7]

So how many of you guys think you'll be swapping from TWF to THF or SWF?

Obviously it would be easy to swap to SWF and putting an orb in your off hand can have its benefits, like a Mythic Blazing Sun.

[Grailhawk]

I was using TWF when U5 hit I'm still using it now. If you think -6 MP is a significant nerf to quot a friend "the problem is between the keyboard and the chair".

[ValariusK]

I was using TWF when U5 hit I'm still using it now. If you think -6 MP is a significant nerf to quot a friend "the problem is between the keyboard and the chair".

For non-paladins the 6 MP change is unlikely to be that big of a deal. However paladins also get hit with the Holy sword not affecting offhand change. So I probably would change out of TWF were I in a paladin life.
TWF's animations apparently are improved also, which will offset part of the 6 MP change. If they fix the TWF hit box problem, which is a seriously annoying problem especially when you're chasing things that like to run jump or dodge, it would be almost a buff, except for the holy sword part.

[blerkington]

Hi,

With my main being a ranger, no I won't be changing to another combat style. The loss of 6 MP doesn't fill me with pleasure, but I got along just fine before it was added. Taking it away seems odd, given it was only just added, but it is not game-breaking.

I am interested in seeing what sort of DPS increase (if any) the modified animation produces. If the dev team also did something about the tiny hit-box, I'd have no hard feelings at all.

Thanks.

[Starla70]

I am not sure at this point. I will have to see how it all plays out. Hard to know at this point.

[unbongwah]

TWF pallies are DOA if Holy Sword no longer applies to offhand. TWF barbs will see either no loss or -5% crit chance depending on weapon; Tempests should lose -5% crit chance across the board.

Some named weapons are inherently nerfed by the Imp Crit changes: e.g., Deathnip, Oathblade, Mornh, Fellblade. But SWF or TWF doesn't matter, so you gain nothing back switching combat styles.

And don't forget the 4th atk is now slightly quicker; if we're trading 6 MP for faster hits per sec, then it may be a net DPS increase.

Frankly, I'll abandon my poor Swashbucklers and Acrobats before I abandon my TWF builds after the proposed balance changes. They're the big losers in all this.

[Thoden]

I'll abandon my poor Swashbucklers and Acrobats before I abandon my TWF builds after the proposed balance changes. They're the big losers in all this.

How's this?

[Grailhawk]

How's this?

Those builds lost a lot do to the improved critical change since there extra threat isn't double anymore.

[slarden]

It seems like after this change twf paladins will be subpar compared to the top builds. It will probably still be a "b" build simply because paladin defenses and saves are so good, but the dps will be lagging behind too much.

[daniel7]

I was using TWF when U5 hit I'm still using it now. If you think -6 MP is a significant nerf to quot a friend "the problem is between the keyboard and the chair".

I made Vindicate when Drow was first released. Back then Paladins were considered gimped. I've done four lives as a paladin since then and I still prefer Paladin over all the other melees. If you played a Paladin when the cap was 10,12, 14, and 16 then a small nerf in DPS like these proposed changes won't be a big deal because Paladins have had it bad for most of the life of this game.

All that said, this could be the push that some people need to try something different with their Paladins. I've done all play styles except SWF with my Paladin, now I might try it on another character. Who doesn't benefit from a Paladin PL or three anyways?

[Grailhawk]

All that said, this could be the push that some people need to try something different with their Paladins. I've done all play styles except SWF with my Paladin, now I might try it on another character. Who doesn't benefit from a Paladin PL or three anyways?

Paladin SWF is a good build it shouldn't inherently be better then Paladin TWF nor should TWF Paladin be inherently better then SWF Paladins.

Ball Park math here (amusing that holy Sword boots damage by 50% and 0.5 STR bonus is a -10% decrease to offhand)
SWF Paladin after and Before change
SWF 1.3(165%) = 214.5% damage

TWF Before Change
1(150%) + 0.8(135%) = 258% damage

TWF After Change
1(150%) + 0.8(90%) = 222% damage

Ball park numbers seem to indicate that TWF paladin is still very powerful compared to SWF

EDIT: Corrected a mistake where i neglected to incloud a 10% base increase to SWF. Looks like the Holy Sword change puts SWF and TWF n the same ball park actually.

[daniel7]

TWF pallies are DOA if Holy Sword no longer applies to offhand. TWF barbs will see either no loss or -5% crit chance depending on weapon; Tempests should lose -5% crit chance across the board.

Some named weapons are inherently nerfed by the Imp Crit changes: e.g., Deathnip, Oathblade, Mornh, Fellblade. But SWF or TWF doesn't matter, so you gain nothing back switching combat styles.

And don't forget the 4th atk is now slightly quicker; if we're trading 6 MP for faster hits per sec, then it may be a net DPS increase.

Frankly, I'll abandon my poor Swashbucklers and Acrobats before I abandon my TWF builds after the proposed balance changes. They're the big losers in all this.

I'm currently a level 20 ranger swinging Oathblades until level 23, then I'll swing two Mornhs. So my my whole plan for that life got nerfed. Oh well.

So if SWF doesn't change and HS only works on your main hand, maybe SWF Paladins will become a trend. Epic/Mythic Blazing Sun gives you PRR, Devotion, Slot...
http://m.ddowiki.com/page/Item:Mythic_Blazing_Sun

[daniel7]

Paladin SWF is a good build it shouldn't inherently be better then Paladin TWF nor should TWF Paladin be inherently better then SWF Paladins.

Ball Park math here (amusing that holy Sword boots damage by 50% and 0.5 STR bonus is a -10% decrease to offhand)
SWF Paladin after and Before change
SWF 1.3(150%) = 195% damage

TWF Before Change
1(150%) + 0.8(135%) = 258% damage

TWF After Change
1(150%) + 0.8(90%) = 222% damage

Ball park numbers seem to indicate that TWF paladin is still very powerful compared to SWF

Thanks for the breakdown.

[Grailhawk]

Thanks for the breakdown.

I made a correction to this check it out please.